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Kim M.
Member
| Joined: | Mon Feb 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Georgia USA |
| Posts: | 442 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Assembly of God, Church of God, Assembly again, PCA, ... |
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Posted: Sat May 17th, 2008 02:41 pm |
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Let me give a little background on my past. Just a little. I'll save the rest for my first confession. 
I got pregnant at 14. When I was about 3 weeks from my due date I felt it was right to marry the father for my daughter to be legitimate, so we were married in front of a judge at the courthouse. Three years later I divorced him.
I remarried my current husband in a Presbyterian church we were attending (the one he grew up in) and have been married to him for over 25 years.
My ex-husband chose soon after our divorce to stop seeing his 2 daughters. He was a simple, poor man who wasn't really savvy on how to do a whole lot. He never fought me for anything and I never pushed him very hard to be involved with his kids. I was honestly happy not to have to pass them back and forth with him. Since I had remarried I figured there was a father figure in their lives and that was enough.
Well, I was foolish to think that my daughters would ever be satisfied with a step dad, even a really good one. Being the humans that they are, they wanted to connect with their past. So recently my second daughter was able to locate her natural father and both daughters have been reunited with him.
The interesting development is that now I know how to get in touch with him when I seek an annulment (assuming I'm joining the CC). The timing is interesting because I am feeling more and more peace about joining.
Maybe just a coincidence. But maybe not.
I know I don't "need" his approval of the annulment, but it's nice to have the ability to get an address for him now. 
____________________
"A joyful heart is the health of the body, but a depressed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22
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kimdyuma
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 774 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Sat May 17th, 2008 03:32 pm |
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| Kim- I never saw my father after my 5th year until I was 27- Due to lots of things but partly becuase divorce in Quebec was so difficult and controversial. My stepfather (who is my dad) came into my life when I was about 7, he is a good father to me and actually legally adopted me, that being said when I was 27, I tracked down my father who had remarried and had two kids- I tracked him down becuase I wanted answers as to why he had left ME- what was wrong with ME- turns out nothing but he didn't have the strength to fight the system and my mother so he walked. My strep mother is a wonderful woman, my father and I have a good relationship, but not really a father/daughter one if you know what I mean. He and my stepmother have become a third set of grandparents in my kids' lives. Just meeting him, his family and forging the bonds that we do have helped me grow and get some closure on things. When I refer to my Dad though it is my stepfather I mean and he is the one that walked me down the aisle when I got married- though my father also came to the wedding.
____________________
Adopt from your local Humane Society- Please spay or neuter your pets
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CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5079 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Sat May 17th, 2008 03:51 pm |
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Kim M. wrote: The interesting development is that now I know how to get in touch with him when I seek an annulment (assuming I'm joining the CC). The timing is interesting because I am feeling more and more peace about joining.
If I can make a suggestion, Kim, don't wait. Begin the process now.
It appears on the basis of your statements that your case will be relatively simple, but it can still take years. Having your first marriage declared invalid will be a form of closure, a recognition of what you already know. Of course, it will not affect the legitimacy of your children.
The greatest frustration many people have when they finally decide to enter the Church is the realization that they cannot partake in the Eucharist for months or years because of a mistake they made early in life. Unfortunately, many do not pursue the corrective measures that would enable them to become fully Catholic; instead, they choose another faith path. Or they wait, keeping themselves separate from the Lord's Banquet.
Seeking a Declaration of Nullity is not a commitment to join the Church. It's removing road blocks so you can make that decision more easily when the time is right. And I would suggest to you that the deacon you met at mass would be a good person to approach to begin your investigation.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Kim M.
Member
| Joined: | Mon Feb 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Georgia USA |
| Posts: | 442 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Assembly of God, Church of God, Assembly again, PCA, ... |
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Posted: Sat May 17th, 2008 04:33 pm |
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Rick, is it mandatory that a couple remain celebate during the annulment process? I don't think my hubby would go for that right now. He's not amenable to the Church just yet. It might cause him to resent the Church.
____________________
"A joyful heart is the health of the body, but a depressed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22
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David W. Emery
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1790 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Sat May 17th, 2008 06:03 pm |
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No, it’s not, Kim. Celibacy is the rule only for those who wish to become Catholic and partake of the sacraments before they receive adjudication on the validity of their prior union. This is necessary because not all previous marriages can be found invalid.
David
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Kim M.
Member
| Joined: | Mon Feb 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Georgia USA |
| Posts: | 442 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Assembly of God, Church of God, Assembly again, PCA, ... |
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Posted: Sat May 17th, 2008 06:27 pm |
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David, so if I want to become Catholic, I can do it before the annulment goes through, but once I am Catholic I'd have to become celibate at that point until the annulment is finalized. Am I understanding you correctly?
Last edited on Sat May 17th, 2008 06:32 pm by Kim M.
____________________
"A joyful heart is the health of the body, but a depressed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22
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CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5079 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Sat May 17th, 2008 07:00 pm |
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Kim M. wrote: David, so if I want to become Catholic, I can do it before the annulment goes through, but once I am Catholic I'd have to become celibate at that point until the annulment is finalized. Am I understanding you correctly?
That is possible but generally not recommended. Celibacy within the context of a marriage is unnatural and difficult at best. It is generally considered better to wait until all prior marriages are settled and the current marriage validated.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Kim M.
Member
| Joined: | Mon Feb 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Georgia USA |
| Posts: | 442 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Assembly of God, Church of God, Assembly again, PCA, ... |
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Posted: Sat May 17th, 2008 07:43 pm |
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Rick, do you mean I should wait to become Catholic until after the annulment is finalized and the current marriage validated? I just want to make sure I understand things correctly.
Thanks for advising me, David and Rick! Appershetate that! 
____________________
"A joyful heart is the health of the body, but a depressed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22
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Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist
| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 1414 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Evangelical "Jesus Freak" (Arminian) / "Lewisian Schaefferite" / Catholic |
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Posted: Sat May 17th, 2008 08:02 pm |
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Hi Kim,
I have written generally about these sorts of situations, in response to previous questions that came up in the forum:
Abstaining From Sexual Relations Until Receiving an Annulment Regarding a Previous "Marriage"
Catholic Marriage Convalidation and "Radical Sanation"
I'm no expert on these things, but it seems to me that you may have to (or want to) refrain from receiving the Eucharist until after the annulment process is complete.
If you weren't yet a Catholic (and had never been one) you wouldn't yet be bound to the strict Catholic requirements concerning marriage (the dreaded celibacy scenario). But you couldn't receive communion, because you would not yet be a Catholic.
So there may be an intermediate period where you are free to attend Mass, of course, but not to fully participate.
There's no question in my mind that your first "marriage" would be annulled. It's just a matter of jumping through all the hoops.
These things are very complex. I always feel like I am under-equipped to give a deifnitive answer, and that it is a matter for priests and canon lawyers in private consultation with the parties concerned. None of us (moderators, helpers) are marriage counselors, let alone canon lawyers. So don't quote me on anything, but perhaps I've offered a little bit of good information and food for thought.
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I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 1900+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
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David W. Emery
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1790 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Sat May 17th, 2008 08:21 pm |
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Yes, you understand it correctly, Kim. I’m sure your husband would rather you wait than do without.
Most tribunal processes in the United States last from a few months to a couple of years. Canon law requires marriage nullity cases, if possible, to be adjudicated within a year and a half, including the automatic appeal and confirmation process (Canon 1453). There is also a fee to cover costs, but it is often a partial remuneration, and it can be waived in cases of hardship.
Here’s a book that will answer a ton of questions for you: Annulments and the Catholic Church: Straight Answers to Tough Questions, by Edward Peters.
David
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Kim M.
Member
| Joined: | Mon Feb 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Georgia USA |
| Posts: | 442 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Assembly of God, Church of God, Assembly again, PCA, ... |
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Posted: Sat May 17th, 2008 09:00 pm |
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Thanks to the Davids for your help! The annulment issue is probably going to be the biggest headache I'll have to endure in this journey. At least, I hope so! 
____________________
"A joyful heart is the health of the body, but a depressed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22
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Kim M.
Member
| Joined: | Mon Feb 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Georgia USA |
| Posts: | 442 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Assembly of God, Church of God, Assembly again, PCA, ... |
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Posted: Sat May 17th, 2008 11:40 pm |
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kimdyuma wrote: Kim- I never saw my father after my 5th year until I was 27- Due to lots of things but partly becuase divorce in Quebec was so difficult and controversial. My stepfather (who is my dad) came into my life when I was about 7, he is a good father to me and actually legally adopted me, that being said when I was 27, I tracked down my father who had remarried and had two kids- I tracked him down becuase I wanted answers as to why he had left ME- what was wrong with ME- turns out nothing but he didn't have the strength to fight the system and my mother so he walked. My strep mother is a wonderful woman, my father and I have a good relationship, but not really a father/daughter one if you know what I mean. He and my stepmother have become a third set of grandparents in my kids' lives. Just meeting him, his family and forging the bonds that we do have helped me grow and get some closure on things. When I refer to my Dad though it is my stepfather I mean and he is the one that walked me down the aisle when I got married- though my father also came to the wedding.
I think that my daughters wanted to know the same thing, Kim. They wondered why he didn't stay in their lives. Now he calls them all the time! lol I guess he's making up for lost time! I'm happy for them.
____________________
"A joyful heart is the health of the body, but a depressed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22
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CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5079 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Sun May 18th, 2008 12:28 am |
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Kim M. wrote: Rick, do you mean I should wait to become Catholic until after the annulment is finalized and the current marriage validated? I just want to make sure I understand things correctly.
It is not likely that you would be permitted to join the Church until the prior marriages are dissolved and the current marriage validated if you and your husband continue to live together. Not only is the probabililty of failure high, but there is also the possibility of causing the sin of scandal in others.
If there was a way to say it was for a limited period of time, that would be one thing. But in fact if the Declaration of Nullity is declined (unlikely in your case, but always possible), it would be a lifetime commitment.
And that is certainly not something to be undertaken lightly.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Free
Member
| Joined: | Wed Nov 28th, 2007 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 157 |
| First Name: | Jane | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Presbyterian, Gnostic, non-denominational, Catholic |
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Posted: Sun May 18th, 2008 03:29 pm |
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Kim, were you and your first husband baptized when you were married? That makes a difference. Valid Protestant baptisms are recognized in the Catholic Church, and the guidelines for the nullity process differ for those who were baptized, and those who were not baptized prior to marriage. And if one of you was baptized and one wasn't, that can change the process, too.
I rec'd a letter last week from the Tribunal of our diocese saying that pending no other submissions from either the Petitioner or the Respondent, a decision will be rendered on June 4. If that date is met, the process will have taken nine months, which is a reasonable amount of time. I'm praying that my former husband will not mount an argument and defense, as he is likely to do.
Since both my former husband and I had rec'd valid Protestant baptisms, I had to use the "long form" in petitioning for an annulment. That means writing a history of our childhoods and family backgrounds, our dating experience, & our early, middle and late years of marriage. It also meant lining up five witnesses willing to testify on my behalf, and to have our former marriage counselor submit a report. Each of the witnesses is contacted by the Tribunal, as is the former spouse. Honestly, I'm glad the process is thorough. I wish I'd gone through such a process BEFORE deciding to marry my former husband!
As a divorced, single woman I was received into the Church and able to receive all the sacraments in April, 2007. Praise God for that. Receiving the sacraments of Holy Communion, Reconciliation, and Confirmation have strengthened me inwardly and outwardly in going through this process.
My hope for you is that you will come into the Church even as you are pursuing an annulment from your first husband. Whatever you can receive from the Church will give you strength and clarity of mind as you move forward into conforming your life to the God's will in straightening out your marriages.
Keep in mind Jesus' direct yet compassionate conversation with the woman at the well who had five previous husbands and was living with a man who was not her husband. Our Lord's "rules" for us are always for our benefit!
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Kim M.
Member
| Joined: | Mon Feb 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Georgia USA |
| Posts: | 442 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Assembly of God, Church of God, Assembly again, PCA, ... |
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Posted: Sun May 18th, 2008 10:03 pm |
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Jane, I was not baptized at all until I became a believer 7 years after I married my second husband. My current (2nd) husband was baptized as an infant. I have no idea about the status of my ex-husband's baptism. His mother was, I think, of the Church of the Nazarene denomination, and I don't think they baptize infants. My ex has since come to Christ, according to my oldest children.
____________________
"A joyful heart is the health of the body, but a depressed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22
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Free
Member
| Joined: | Wed Nov 28th, 2007 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 157 |
| First Name: | Jane | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Presbyterian, Gnostic, non-denominational, Catholic |
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Posted: Sun May 18th, 2008 10:53 pm |
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I'm not an expert by any means, but I think your situation will not require the "long form" but the "short form." Some friends of mine accomplished the short form version in six to eight WEEKS! Both of their former spouses co-operated. If they hadn't, it would have taken longer. Since you now know where your former husband is, getting him to co-operate might be a possibility! I pray that it is.
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CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5079 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Mon May 19th, 2008 05:23 pm |
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The procedures can be dramatically different from diocese to diocese. Don't take anything for granted. Get started as early as possible, and you won't have to be disappointed in having to wait.
Note that seeking a Declaration of Nullity is not a commitment to join the Church; it simply opens the way if you should make that decision later.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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