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Talithacumi
Member
| Joined: | Sat Sep 30th, 2006 |
| Location: | Eastern Ohio, USA |
| Posts: | 260 |
| First Name: | Cheri | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic - Latin Rite |
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Posted: Wed Oct 11th, 2006 01:58 am |
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Rick,
You brought up something on another thread – mentioned something about marriages being valid in other faiths as long as they weren’t between first cousins or something – and that made me think of another question that’s bothered me for some time…
Isn’t it true that in the OT - and I suppose maybe even in Jesus’ time - if a woman were married and her husband died, it was pretty much incumbent upon a single brother of the deceased man to marry his widow, apparently to carry on the family name or whatever?
Anyway, why is it that now, if I understand correctly, it is not allowed - in the Catholic Church, at least - for a widow to marry her husband’s brother? Why is that wrong? I mean, she’s not related to him by blood, so why can she not marry her brother-in-law if her husband dies? Just wondering…
In the same vein, what about adopted brothers and sisters? How about step-brothers and step-sisters? I find this all rather confusing. I mean, I have heard of marriages taking place within these kinds of relationships. Are they allowed in the Catholic Church? Which ones are and which aren't, and why or why not? I'd just like to be clear on this in case someone ever asks. If I've wondered, maybe someone else might...
JMJ
- Cheri
____________________
“We do not want a Church that will move with the world; we want a Church that will move the world.”
- G.K. Chesterton
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CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5085 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Wed Oct 11th, 2006 11:44 am |
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Cheri,
This is covered in the Code of Canon Law, sections 1083-1095, which you can read here.
In essence, forbidden marriages include those with ancestors and descendents, siblings, and collateral relatives to the third degree. Bishops may dispense the impediment under certain circumstances. Please note that these relationships are based on blood, not marriage or adoption, so the marriage between step-siblings is not normally prohibited. However, the marriage of step-parents and their step-children or step-grandchildren is prohibited under canon 1093, and the marriage of parents and adoptive children and adoptive siblings is prohibited under canon 1094.
So a woman may marry the brother of her deceased husband and step-siblings may marry as long as there is no legal adoption. If in doubt, the case is referred to the canon lawyer (called the Judicial Vicar) of the diocese and to the bishop. There are some other circumstances which can affect things, such as public propriety, so the rules are not necessarily carved in stone. If the brother was suspected of killing his sibling because he was having an affair with his sister-in-law, the marriage would probably not be allowed. If he actually killed his brother, the marriage is prohibited under canon 1090.
Cases in which the bishop may be willing to dispense the rules include a situation where third cousins meet and establish a relationship without knowing they are related, and later find out that they have common relatives. This is actually a fairly common occurrance in my area with its strong family ties and large percentage of young people who remain in the area. It gets interesting when they don't realize they're related to each other until they notice people at the wedding reception who are related on both sides!
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Talithacumi
Member
| Joined: | Sat Sep 30th, 2006 |
| Location: | Eastern Ohio, USA |
| Posts: | 260 |
| First Name: | Cheri | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic - Latin Rite |
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Posted: Wed Oct 11th, 2006 03:02 pm |
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Rick,
Thanks for the info... you did say that "a woman may marry the brother of her deceased husband and step-siblings may marry as long as there is no legal adoption." So can you explain to me what exactly is meant by the words/phrases that I put in bold in the following paragraphs? I'm not sure I understand all that legaleze... sorry for my ignorance. :?
Can. 1091 §1. In the direct line of consanguinity marriage is invalid between all ancestors and descendants, both legitimate and natural.
§2. In the collateral line marriage is invalid up to and including the fourth degree.
§3. The impediment of consanguinity is not multiplied.
§4. A marriage is never permitted if doubt exists whether the partners are related by consanguinity in any degree of the direct line or in the second degree of the collateral line.
Can. 1092 Affinity in the direct line in any degree invalidates a marriage.
Can. 1093 The impediment of public propriety arises from an invalid marriage after the establishment of common life or from notorious or public concubinage. It nullifies marriage in the first degree of the direct line between the man and the blood relatives of the woman, and vice versa.
Can. 1094 Those who are related in the direct line or in the second degree of the collateral line by a legal relationship arising from adoption cannot contract marriage together validly.
I'm not sure if I'm reading these right, so is it possible that the phrase I outlined in bold in #1093 means that a widow cannot marry her brother-in-law? Or does that phrase refer to "concubinage" as stated in the sentence before (and I'm not sure exactly what that sentence is saying, either...:?)? I'm just not sure what this all means. Again, sorry for my ignorance. Could you maybe put it into layman's terms for me? (Blushing here at my own ignorance).Thanks...
JMJ
- Cheri
____________________
“We do not want a Church that will move with the world; we want a Church that will move the world.”
- G.K. Chesterton
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CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5085 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Online
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Posted: Wed Oct 11th, 2006 03:37 pm |
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Talithacumi wrote: Thanks for the info... you did say that "a woman may marry the brother of her deceased husband and step-siblings may marry as long as there is no legal adoption." So can you explain to me what exactly is meant by the words/phrases that I put in bold in the following paragraphs? I'm not sure I understand all that legaleze... sorry for my ignorance. :?
I'm not a lawyer and I don't understand them any better than you, but the version of Canon Law I have includes a commentary that explains the meaning. I do know that "direct line" means ancestors and descendents (up and down on a family tree) while "collateral" means sideways (siblings and their descendents).
Can. 1093 The impediment of public propriety arises from an invalid marriage after the establishment of common life or from notorious or public concubinage. It nullifies marriage in the first degree of the direct line between the man and the blood relatives of the woman, and vice versa.
I'm not sure if I'm reading these right, so is it possible that the phrase I outlined in bold in #1093 means that a widow cannot marry her brother-in-law? Or does that phrase refer to "concubinage" as stated in the sentence before (and I'm not sure exactly what that sentence is saying, either...:?)? I'm just not sure what this all means. Again, sorry for my ignorance. Could you maybe put it into layman's terms for me? (Blushing here at my own ignorance).Thanks...
No, the "direct line" would prevent a woman from marrying the father or son of her husband, not his brother (which would be "collateral"). She would also not be forbidden to marry her late husband's grandfather or grandson, since they would be in the second degree.
The "propriety" issue comes into play if people have been living together in a notorious or public way and then seek marriage. Let's say a woman left her husband and moved in with her father-in-law in a scandalous fashion. Later, her husband dies and she and her father-in-law show up at church a few days later to get married. It would not be allowed on the grounds of public propriety. Again, I'm not a canon lawyer so I'm giving you my understanding of something I really don't understand either. That's why each diocese has a trained and licensed canon lawyer called the Judicial Vicar.
Propriety comes into play more often in some societies than others, and is a matter of judgment. Some priests might refuse to marry them, and others might not. I know priests who will not marry couples living together, and others who have no problem with it. I also know priests who will give communion to divorced and remarried Catholics and those who won't. That doesn't make it right, but it is not my place to judge either his actions or theirs.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Talithacumi
Member
| Joined: | Sat Sep 30th, 2006 |
| Location: | Eastern Ohio, USA |
| Posts: | 260 |
| First Name: | Cheri | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic - Latin Rite |
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Posted: Fri Oct 13th, 2006 01:05 am |
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Rick,
Thanks for all your help... you did at least answer my original question, which was "Can a widow marry her brother-in-law"? I had always heard that the answer was no... now I know that wasn't true. So, thanks for answering. 
JMJ
- Cheri
Last edited on Fri Oct 13th, 2006 01:05 am by Talithacumi
____________________
“We do not want a Church that will move with the world; we want a Church that will move the world.”
- G.K. Chesterton
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