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kimdyuma
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 774 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Sun May 27th, 2007 05:33 pm |
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| I know that the Anglicans have broken apostolic succession- Are the Lutherans considered to have done so too?
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CajunRick
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5080 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Sun May 27th, 2007 05:50 pm |
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kimdyuma wrote: I know that the Anglicans have broken apostolic succession- Are the Lutherans considered to have done so too?
Kim, apostolic succession depends not only on a legitimate bishop ordaining other bishops, but doing so in union with the rest of the Church, using a legitimate rite with the permission of the legitimate authority in place. When Archbishop Marcel Lefevbre ordained bishops in defiance of Rome in 1988, he broke apostolic succession even though he was a legitimate bishop and it was within his sacred ability to assist in the ordination of other bishops. Anglicans broke apostolic succession when they ordained bishops in defiance of Rome, and Lutherans did the same.
This is true because all of these churches defied their patriarch, the leader of the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church, the pope.
The Orthodox have not broken apostolic succession. Even though they are not in union with Rome, they have maintained unity with their particular hierarch, whether he be known as a patriarch or a metropolitan or whatever. So apostolic succession is vested in the Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox Churches, and a few others, but not in the Anglican or Lutheran churches, the Chinese Patriotic Association, the Society of Saint Pius X, or any of the other denominations that broke away from the legitimate patriarchal Church where they started.
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Rick Luquette
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kimdyuma
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 774 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Sun May 27th, 2007 06:23 pm |
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| that is what I thougt but I was talking to a Lutheran recently who said that in contrast to Anlgicans her denomination had not broken succession- I really couldn't figure out how that was possilbe
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CajunRick
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5080 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Sun May 27th, 2007 07:15 pm |
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kimdyuma wrote: that is what I thougt but I was talking to a Lutheran recently who said that in contrast to Anlgicans her denomination had not broken succession- I really couldn't figure out how that was possilbe
I would love to hear an explanation of how they managed that.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Gnyssa
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| Joined: | Sat Nov 18th, 2006 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 29 |
| First Name: | Gnyssa | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Episcopalian, Roman Catholic since 2003, RC priest 2006 |
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Posted: Sat Jun 2nd, 2007 08:18 am |
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I could be wrong about this - but it is my understanding that the Lutherans belive that apostolic succession resides in baptism and in the transmission of the faith, and not in episcopal ordination. Hence, they do believe they have it, and we, respectfully, disagree. Interestingly, the Lutheran Church of Sweeden claims apostolic succession in their episcopacy and they are in full communion with the Anglicans. Again, we respectfully disagree with their claims to valid ordination.
Gnyssa
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Br_Carlo
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Tyler, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 150 |
| First Name: | Br_Carlo (Vince Brach) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Presbyterian, Episcopalian, CATHOLIC |
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Posted: Sat Jun 2nd, 2007 09:16 am |
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| God's peace. Even some Baptists think that they are in "apostolic succession," not physically through the laying on of hands of the Episcopacy but in doctrine, which they claim grants them authority. I find this laughable. Just read the Fathers! Pick any doctrine and any Father's comments on it and it will sound Catholic. I point out to my Baptist friends (yes, I still have some) that this is because the Fathers were Catholic. Blessings, ~Br_Carlo~
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