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kimdyuma
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 776 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Sat Jun 2nd, 2007 01:53 pm |
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| How is pastoral provision looked upon by the priesthood at large ( and I guess the congregations in which they serve)- here are some protestant Preists being ordained and yet married- however the norm is celibate priesthood.
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AggieCatholic
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | San Antonio, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 82 |
| First Name: | Lance | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | United Methodist to Roman Catholic (Anglican Use) |
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Posted: Wed Jun 20th, 2007 01:38 am |
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My parish priest, the first to be ordained through the pastoral provision, has built a model parish and school here in San Antonio. With the help of the congregation of mostly Episcopal converts, we have a beautiful church located in the famed Texas Hill Country that offers Eucharistic Adoration every weekend, adult faith formation, yearly pilgrimages to various Holy places and a nationally recognized K-12th private school.
It does catch people off guard when they find out Fr. Christopher is married and has five children. But, he is a highly respected member of the local clergy renowned for his organizational skills. He is also one of very few priests the the archdiocese allowed to perform the Latin Mass weekly.
When I moved to the city earlier this year I attended several parishes trying to find one that I could connect with. With all due respect to those parishes, Our Lady of the Atonement was by far the most reverent towards the Mass and other sacraments. Fr. Christopher goes above and beyond what can be expected from parish priests and I am honored to call him Father.
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What part of, "Hoc est enim Corpus meum" don't you understand?
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kimdyuma
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 776 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 10:37 pm |
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There was an article in our local paper today re the Pastoral Provision- An Episcopal Priest was ordained in Ventura Ca. They stated that the provision has been around for 27 years and about 70 priests have come into the church via this provision. In the article people were quoted as saying that they hoped it would open the doors for a married clergy and also perhaps women priest in the futre- I HOPE NOT that is what I left behind. Any how local comments to me were from a non catholic firend who said that a mutal Catholic friend was really upset by this. She went on to comment that it just went to show that those Catholics would catch you any way they could...
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kimdyuma
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 776 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 10:41 pm |
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| Further more is it just Episcopal/Anglican priests that are being ordained through this provision or Lutheran too and is it just in the States or worldwide?
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CajunRick
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5085 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 11:22 pm |
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Perhaps Fr. Gnyssa will comment, but the Pastoral Provision is intended for Anglican/Episcopal priests who become Catholic, and has since been opened to ministers of some other faith including, I believe, Lutherans and Methodists, and perhaps others.
It's not an automatic thing. These men must first join the Church and abandon their ministry, then approach the bishop of their diocese to request permission to submit an application to Rome. They must be able to demonstrate a legitimate calling that would have led them to the priesthood if they had been Catholic, and must have the cooperation of their wives as well. After their application is approved by their bishop, it is submitted to Rome. If Rome approves, the former Protestant minister must then begin classes leading to the priesthood. The process takes several years even when things move quickly. And even if everything proceeds smoothly, the priest must be willing to accept that if his wife dies, he will never be permitted to marry again. He will also have to support his family on a priest's salary, which is pretty good for a single man but probably insufficient to support a family.
This is certainly not an opening to female priests, which would be a change in Church doctrine. However, the idea of a celibate clergy is a discipline that can be changed at any time, although there is no indication that there is any interest in changing the discipline of celibacy at any time in the forseeable future.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Credo Catholic
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| Joined: | Sat May 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 1270 |
| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Sun Jun 24th, 2007 01:17 am |
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Our St. Mary's has a priest, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, who was I believe an Anglican priest, but was a Bob Jones University graduate to begin with. He moved to England after graduation, and joined the Anglican church there. He is married with three children, and he has a job as chaplain of a local catholic high school, so that helps support the family. He helps at St. Marys on a part time basis. He was just ordained a few months ago.
Also, his conversion story is here on the CHN, and he has written several books that our catholic bookstore carries, so they must all still be in print.
Last edited on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 01:19 am by Credo Catholic
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Br_Carlo
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Tyler, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 150 |
| First Name: | Br_Carlo (Vince Brach) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Presbyterian, Episcopalian, CATHOLIC |
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Posted: Sun Jun 24th, 2007 08:03 am |
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God's peace. Paul Kee, a former Presbyterian minister, has been ordained to the Transitional Diaconate here in my diocese of Tyler, TX and will go on to be ordained priest sometime in the near future. He is married and is in his ealy 50's, I believe.
As far as Kimdyuma's quote about some aquaintance saying that we Catholics are "catching them any way they can," YOU BETCHA. We care about people's souls that much. Blessings, ~Br_Carlo~
Last edited on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 08:05 am by Br_Carlo
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gits
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| Joined: | Thu Jul 26th, 2007 |
| Location: | Norway |
| Posts: | 5 |
| First Name: | Stig | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Pentecostal/Lutheran priest |
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Posted: Tue Sep 18th, 2007 08:23 pm |
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CajunRick wrote: Perhaps Fr. Gnyssa will comment, but the Pastoral Provision is intended for Anglican/Episcopal priests who become Catholic, and has since been opened to ministers of some other faith including, I believe, Lutherans and Methodists, and perhaps others.
Here in Norway there is one former Lutheran priest (of one of two smaller Lutheran denominations. I belong to the largest some 85% of the population do) who has converted and is now a Catholic priest.
It's not an automatic thing. These men must first join the Church and abandon their ministry, then approach the bishop of their diocese to request permission to submit an application to Rome. They must be able to demonstrate a legitimate calling that would have led them to the priesthood if they had been Catholic, and must have the cooperation of their wives as well.
It isn't the easy way in. But I wonder what "cooperation of their wives" entails. My wife would be supportive if I decide to enter the Catholic Church, and even if I sought to be ordained. But, as of now, it is highly unlikely that she would enter the Church with me. Another question is our daughter and eventually other children. I don't know how "supportive" she will be as to the obligations of raising the children Catholic.
He will also have to support his family on a priest's salary, which is pretty good for a single man but probably insufficient to support a family.
Here the salary is about one third of my current salary (Catholic priests get housing, and car if necessary, but the one who has gone before (no pun intended) didn't get this, at least not in the beginning), so this is also a serious consideration for Norwegian clergy contemplating converting. Can my family, for which I'm currently the sole provider, survive on this salary? Will the bishop confirm my calling? (I'm not sure that I would desire to be a priest if I convert, but that's a part of the discernment.)
Is the requirements for becoming permanent deacon about the same?
(I've been lurking for some time since my introduction.)
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David W. Emery
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1796 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Sep 18th, 2007 08:56 pm |
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Stig, your specific questions on how the pastoral provision might apply to your particular case are beyond the scope of this forum, which was organized to meet the needs of the non-ordained. I encourage you to contact Jim Anderson at CHN's home office at jim@chnetwork.org . He is in charge of helping clergy inquirers with their special needs.
David
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CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5085 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Tue Sep 18th, 2007 10:25 pm |
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gits wrote: It isn't the easy way in. But I wonder what "cooperation of their wives" entails. My wife would be supportive if I decide to enter the Catholic Church, and even if I sought to be ordained. But, as of now, it is highly unlikely that she would enter the Church with me. Another question is our daughter and eventually other children. I don't know how "supportive" she will be as to the obligations of raising the children Catholic.
We do have a candidate for the permanent diaconate who's wife is not Catholic and has no intention of becoming Catholic. They are an older couple so children are not an issue. She does support his vocation, but she is not participating in the program. He spent several years in discernment before the bishop approved his application.
Is the requirements for becoming permanent deacon about the same?
There is one significant difference. The discipline of celibacy does not apply to deacons in the same way as it does with priests. In order for a married man to be considered for the priesthood, approval of the Holy Father is required. That is not the case for a candidate for the permanent diaconate.
Also, if I'm not mistaken, the "Pastoral Provision" applies specifically to the United States. Of course, the Holy Father may approve married candidates for the priesthood anywhere, but I'm not sure the same procedures would apply. In addition to David's recommendation that you contact Jim at CHN, you might also want to visit the web site of the Pastoral Provision and perhaps write to them as well. They may be more aware of the rules and procedures in other countries than we are.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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