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Jackie
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Posted: Sun Feb 10th, 2008 06:57 pm |
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What qualifies a person in a protestant church to become a minister/pastor? What tests or period of discernment is required? Can any ole' body become one? Is the benchmark just passing seminarian school?Who lays hands upon them? They can marry and baptize people. What weight does this carry? I've heard the term, minister of the word, and I get that, but the title minister/pastor/reverand carries such, I don't know, authority to the listener!!?? I struggle with the people in the seats thinking the guy has all the correct answers while he's "preaching the word."
A friend of mine passed a remark that her hubby was going to classes to become a minister (of sorts) - ( didn't hear the rest cuz my brain echoed repeatedly, 'her husband a minister') but I remain curious, does each denom have different qualifications? Positions?
The laying on of hands thing has got me thinking, when the churches became schismatic, how did they qualify this process based upon what had been the proper edict at the time?
Your replies would be helpful..................thanks Jackie
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JillD
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Posted: Sun Feb 10th, 2008 07:53 pm |
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I don't know the answer to your question, but I will say that this impressed me today. Two men in our parish were prayed over at the end of Mass because they had been approved by the bishop to continue on in pursuit of becoming deacons. They've already put in over 5 years of study and have more than 2 years to go. To become a deacon! It's almost easier to become an MD!
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"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! You know me right well; my frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth." Psalm 139
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Sun Feb 10th, 2008 08:30 pm |
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Jackie, the acceptance, means and requirements of ordination vary so widely among Protestants that one cannot generalize. Some of the more formal and liturgical denominations have regular seminary requirements and a formal ordination ritual by a bishop, almost as if they were Catholics — except, of course, the person doesn’t become a priest. My former Methodist denomination did it more or less this way, although the ordination was actually more of an authorization than a consecration. Others, at the other end of the spectrum, have no such procedure. I have actually known of cases where a person, without any formal religious education, just started preaching, formed his own private congregation and away he went. Others, probably the majority, require at least some sort of bible college training.
Many denominations, having no real structure above the level of the congregation, have a method whereby an individual congregation will advertise for applications to fill a ministerial position; it is the congregation that hires (and sometimes fires) ministers. Most of these bodies seem to do it as a business proposition; the laying on of hands is then not employed because there is no formal ordination procedure, no sacramental seal. They usually claim that the formal laying on of hands is for all Christians, as a sign of the priesthood of all the faithful (in imitation of the Catholic sacrament of priestly ordination?), or for those who are born again, as a sign of the Holy Spirit’s presence in the soul (in imitation of the Catholic sacrament of confirmation/ chrismation?). In either case, it is not sacramental.
This describes the extremes and in extremely broad strokes gives an idea of what lies in between. I’d love to hear from Protestants (or former Protestants) who can describe in detail what their ecclesiastical structure is and give an account of how their ministers are put in place and how their office is viewed by the congregation — whether authoritative or not, etc.
I can also suggest a book that gives sketches of many denominational groups, how they came to be and how they handle things like ordaining clergy. It’s called Separated Brethren, written by William J. Whalen, and published by Our Sunday Visitor.
David
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CajunRick
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Posted: Sun Feb 10th, 2008 08:38 pm |
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Jackie wrote: I've heard the term, minister of the word, and I get that, but the title minister/pastor/reverand carries such, I don't know, authority to the listener!!?? I struggle with the people in the seats thinking the guy has all the correct answers while he's "preaching the word."
I know that all the major denominations have educational requirements, discernment periods, etc. There are others in which the congregation empowers the minister, so once a church is established, they can essentially hire anyone they want.
I think the majority of Protestant denominations have essentially no oversight over their ministers except that provided by the congregation, which has the authority through their board of elders or comparable assembly to hire and fire.
I always remember the movie Pollyanna in which the grandmother (Jane Wyman) controlled the pastor's (Karl Maulden) homilies because she controlled the board, and therefore his job. His ultimate rebellion was to preach about happy things as befitted a Disney movie with Haley Mills.
I know that as a cradle Catholic my understanding is completely different, but I've never understood how a congregation can choose it's preacher and depend on the message. It seems that he would not be able to preach against the major sins of his region. I mean, how can he get on a pulpit and say that premarital sex is wrong if more than half his congregation is cohabitating? That would hurt his collection and attendance, and ultimately cost him his job.
But then, I'm a Catholic so what do I know?
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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Intercessor
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 04:42 am |
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Jackie wrote:
What qualifies a person in a protestant church to become a minister/pastor? What tests or period of discernment is required? Can any ole' body become one? Is the benchmark just passing seminarian school?Who lays hands upon them? They can marry and baptize people. What weight does this carry? I've heard the term, minister of the word, and I get that, but the title minister/pastor/reverand carries such, I don't know, authority to the listener!!?? I struggle with the people in the seats thinking the guy has all the correct answers while he's "preaching the word."
A friend of mine passed a remark that her hubby was going to classes to become a minister (of sorts) - ( didn't hear the rest cuz my brain echoed repeatedly, 'her husband a minister') but I remain curious, does each denom have different qualifications? Positions?
The laying on of hands thing has got me thinking, when the churches became schismatic, how did they qualify this process based upon what had been the proper edict at the time?
A person interested in pastoring a Southern Baptist church must have a license to preach. That license alone would not get one a job as pastor in any church I know of; one must be ordained as a Southern Baptist minister of the gospel.
Typically, a young man who believes God is calling him to preach would make that fact known to his pastor. The pastor would take him under his wing for private counseling, private Bible study, prayer sessions, sermon preparation. Eventually, the young man would be given an opportunity to work with the young people in the church in some capacity. Then he would be allowed to preach his first sermon on a Sunday evening. Depending on the young man's age and his initial performance in the pulpit, he would be given additional opportunities to preach. Probably, his pastor would arrange for him to deliver sermons at other churches needing the pulpit filled for a single service.
If the pastor and the young man agree that God is indeed calling him to the ministry, arrangements would be made for an ordination committee. A date would be announced. Members of the congregation would be invited to attend and witness as seasoned, respected area ministers examined the fellow for knowledge of and faithfulness to Baptist doctrine and practice. Questions are asked; answers are given; follow-up questions are presented; and a vote is taken in private by the examiners. I don't recall ever hearing of a person's failing to pass. That isn't surprising since the pastor would not put a young man forward without already having determined that he was prepared.
Next, a date would be set for the actual ordination. Often it takes place on a Sunday afternoon or during a Sunday evening worship service. Ordained Baptist ministers from the area attend. If the young man has a relative or close friend who is an ordained minister, that person would ordinarily participate, along with the pastor, in conducting the ordination service. Each might deliver a sermon. One might be short; the other longer. One would be a "charge" to the young man, exhorting him to walk worthily as a minister of the gospel.
After a few hymns (usually selected by the young man) and the two sermons, he would kneel at what Baptists call the altar (down front and center). The ordained ministers present would line up. One at a time each steps up to the kneeling fellow, places two hands on his head, bends over and prays/speaks softly near the person's ear. The young man can hear what is said, typically; the congregation sees but cannot hear what is said. If the mama and the mama-in-law and the grandmamas are present, they probably shed a few tears. The wife, if there is one, almost always weeps silently. Sometimes, the wife is even allowed to stand beside her husband and the ordained ministers place one hand on her shoulder and pray for her as well. These details are determined by the pastor of the church.
An ordination certificate would be signed and given to the young minister and the church minutes would reflect his ordination, I believe. A nice reception would follow in the fellowship hall.
I will share with you one unusual situation. Before the moderates were driven out of the Southern Baptist Convention, I attended a church pastored by a moderate, not a fundamentalist. This moderate pastor oversaw the ordination of a young man I had taught in Vacation Bible School. The lad had written an article mentioning that he received his first lessons in using and understanding the Bible from me; so I knew he thought of me kindly. The pastor waited until almost all of the ordained ministers had filed past, then stepped forward and invited any women in the congregation who had taught this young minister to come forward and lay hands on him. I did so.
OK, we've got the new minister licensed, examined, and ordained. How does he find a church to pastor? If he is wise and well-instructed, he will contact his associational missionary, usually someone who formerly pastored churches but now works in an area office assisting local Baptist churches in various endeavors such as finding a new pastor or filling the pulpit for a vacationing minister. Friends and relatives are also a good source for learning of "empty" pulpits. It is helpful to visit several associational missionaries in other areas, even other states. There are also Baptist publications which regularly advertise openings for pastoral positions and give information on how to apply.
Tiny rural churches might be willing to consider a pastor with very little education, perhaps not even a bachelor's degree. Most churches, however, would prefer a pastor with a college degree and some seminary training. Larger congregations might even seek persons having a doctorate.
A church looking for a pastor chooses a pulpit committee, typically three men and two women. They meet (sometimes for months) just to pray together for unity and guidance. Some churches conduct a survey of the membership to determine general concerns and priorities of the membership. Often, they bring in a seasoned pastor or former pastor from the area to guide them on important considerations and procedures. They solicit applications, study the material received. Promising candidates would be subject to background checks and checks of references.
The pulpit committee would arrange to hear the candidate preach. If favorably impressed, they would bring the candidate and his wife in for intensive interviews. At some point, the deacons would be included, then Sunday School teachers and other church leaders would have an opportunity to meet the candidate and his wife and ask questions. Once, in such a situation, I asked a candidate what his position was on the role of women in the church.
A week or so later, a secret ballot vote is taken at the end of a Sunday morning service. More hymns are sung as counters tally the votes. Then the results are announced, and members are informed that Rev. John Doe has been called to serve as the new pastor. The vote is reported to the candidate, and he decides whether he is satisfied with the percentage of persons voting for him. Some churches ask members to vote a second time after the victory, in order to report a "unanimous" call from the membership. Some ministers are unwilling to accept a pastorate if the second vote also fails to produce a "unanimous" vote.
In small towns and small churches, sometimes the pastor and his family are brought in for a weekend. He preaches Sunday morning and Sunday night. He and his family step outside after the evening service while the members vote on whether to call him as pastor. Then he is told of the outcome and makes a decision on the spot whether to accept the call. I remember standing out in the parking lot in the dark with my parents and little sisters and hearing my father ask my mother, "Well, do you think we should accept a call to this church?" 
As for the authority of the senior pastor, if his authority is not accepted, it is probably time for him to leave that congregation unless the challengers are few or unless they can be shown to be incorrect. The pastor is the captain of the ship. It's no good being on a ship whose captain is not respected and followed. Last edited on Mon Feb 11th, 2008 05:31 am by Intercessor
____________________
"If our charity is arrested by the difficulties encountered in dealing with our neighbor, . . . our relations with our brethren are not regulated by our love of God, but by our love of self." Divine Intimacy p. 781, Fr. Gabriel, O.C.D.
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Robert
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 09:58 am |
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JillD wrote:
To become a deacon! It's almost easier to become an MD!
Tell me about it! I’ve been “at it” for 5 years, and still have 3 years to go before ordination.
This is the scope:
2.5 years academic theology
1.5 years pastoral theology
After the theological qualification one applies to be received as an observer in a Deaconate group.
Min. 6 mo. Trial before admission as an Applicant.
1st year: basic training and discernment.
2nd year: advanced training and discernment ending with admission as a candidate
3rd year: Practical year with liturgical and sacraments training ending with the missio cum diacono.
4th year: Spiritual exercises and retreat ending with ordination as a Deacon.
Following consecration the new Deacon has another 5 years of training until he is a fully qualified deacon!
All in all about 8 years of training and discernment.
I do however believe that when dealing with your own and other's souls, the vocation must be clear.
Last edited on Mon Feb 11th, 2008 11:03 am by Robert
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Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect (1 Peter 3:15)
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EMarshallBuckles
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 02:29 pm |
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Becky, above, give a very learned, excellent overview of how Baptist churches get their ministers. The same is true, or at least similar, for the various "congregational" churches such as the Disciples of Christ/Christian Churches/Churches of Christ and some others. Now, of course, some of the Protestant denominations do have a process which is more along the lines of the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox denominations. Some denominations such as Episcopalian/Anglican, United Methodist and others do have a hierarchy which includes Bishops and various councils and so forth. There is a process, which those denominations use, which has similar procedures to those of the Roman Catholic Church. Usually the Bishop for the candidate for ordination's diocese or region approves of and guides the candidate sometimes in connection with boards or councils made of up clergy or clergy and laypersons. Sometimes the local congregations and their local, internal boards or committees have some say in the matter of which clergymember gets assigned to which church and which person is allowed to go into the ministry, however, the Bishops or other "church leaders" have a great deal of influence in the process as well. The Presbyterians have what they call "synods" from the national to the local level. These are elected leaders, lay and clergy, and they have a lot of influence in these matters as well. Now, there are a few, smaller denominations which have no where near the same rules and regulations and, occasionally, you can get some nearly "self appointed" "preachers", so to speak, but most of the Protestant denominations do have a very rigorous process for selecting and training clergy.
As for education of clergy, yep, some smaller denominations, on the purely congregational side, do sometimes hand the "preacher" a Bible and say "read it and preach", ha, ha! However, most denominations do require at least some formal training. This can range from a certificate program, taught at the high school level of learning (not high school students but usually older persons pursuing it), to a college level Bachelors degree program to a graduate level seminary program just as demanding as anything you will find at a Roman Catholic seminary. In the Baptist denomination, you will still find a minority of "preachers" who have only had some sort of certificate program or Bachelor's degree program, however, the vast majority of them have earned at least a Master of Divinity degree and many a Doctor of Ministry or Doctor of Philosophy degree.
In earlier years, back before the 1960s, one would usually go to liberal arts college or business college or some other regionally accredited college for three or four years then go to seminary for three years at which time one would earn a Bachelor of Divinity degree (attorneys a/k/a "lawyers" used to follow a similar path earning a Bachelor of Laws degree which was later titled "Juris Doctor" or Doctor of Jurisprudence). One could then pursue additional education which would lead to a Master of Theology or Master of Sacred Theology (named according to the preference of the particular denomination) and then could go on to a Doctor of Theology now usually named Doctor of Philosophy. Nowadays, however, one usually earns a Bachelors degree of some sort then goes on to seminary (after being found worthy of doing so by usually very rigorous processes) earning the Master of Divinity (some denominations call it Master IN Divinity) with either an advanced professional skills Doctor of Ministry or the academic Doctor of Philosophy degrees available for those who wish to pursue them. The Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, located in the "holy city"  of Ft. Worth, Texas is one of the, if not THE, largest seminaries in the world having faculty members with many advanced degrees, of outstanding quality, and excellent facilities and programs. It trains mostly Baptists although a significant number of seminarians from other denominations and from around the world as well study there (including - are you ready for this?! - some Roman Catholics and Jewish persons at times   ). All of the Southern Baptist seminaries are regionally accredited and also accredited by the theological accreditation organizations. Other seminaries of lesser size and varying quality exist, in the Protestant denominations. Most of them are of excellent quality. That learned scholar and excellent preacher on EWTN, Father Mitch Pacwa, for example, studied and earned degrees from Vanderbilt University (formerly a Methodist university but now largely interdenominational) and some other Catholics have studied at other non-Catholic seminaries at times as have some Baptists and other non-Catholics studied at Catholic seminaries, as well as at some Jewish seminaries, so there is some interaction amongst them which is GOOD for our scholarly community to do! The interfaith dialogue and interaction SHOULD continue to exist and we SHOULD find ways in which we can agree and work together for the cause of Christ even though we continue to disagree on some things.
Also, yes, some local churches and some denominations do sometimes tend to be on the "popularity and personality" of the minister side, however, most of them, especially the larger of them, do have a number of "checks and balances" so that the congregation, while having probably a bit more influence than the Roman Catholic denomination, usually does not totally "rule" the Pastor/Senior Minister/Minister/Rector (title varies among the denominations) or the theological content of his (and, in some denominations "her") sermons and teaching. You do have some denominations and some churches which tend to be more on the liberal side and some which tend to be "moderate' and some which tend to be conservative. However, speaking in a totally objective manner - not being critical, just observing fact - I have known of the same thing to happen in Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches as well. People are people and, until the Lord returns again, you are going to have differing perspectives on things like politics and religion even in the same denomination. Like my fellow Virginian Bruce Hornsby once sang, "...that's just the way it is, it is, it is, it is....!" However, another popular, touching Christian song says, "...love one another, love one another and bring each other HOME!!"
Last edited on Mon Feb 11th, 2008 02:36 pm by EMarshallBuckles
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EMarshallBuckles
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Posted: Mon Feb 11th, 2008 02:45 pm |
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| Oh, also, as for marrying people, each state and the District of Columbia, has laws governing who may conduct marriages. This can be done, usually, by clergy or authorized lay people (the laity conducting civil marriages for those who do not wish to have a church or synagogue marriage. Various denominations register with the states, according to their requirements, and the Ministers or Priests likewise register with the states. Of course, if our society collapsed, Priests could, in the eyes of God and of believers, still conduct church marriages, however, in the United States, and in a numer of other nations, legal requirements and registrations must be met or the state can "apply sanctions", as they say, to punish those who do not comply. And, um, please don't blame me for all this, ha, ha, go see your legislators!
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Jackie
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Posted: Wed Mar 5th, 2008 04:23 pm |
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The laying on of hands thing has got me thinking, when the churches became schismatic, how did they qualify this process based upon what had been the proper edict at the time?
Anyone?
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CajunRick
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Posted: Wed Mar 5th, 2008 05:37 pm |
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Jackie wrote: The laying on of hands thing has got me thinking, when the churches became schismatic, how did they qualify this process based upon what had been the proper edict at the time?
Anyone?
Jackie, I didn't answer this sooner because I wasn't sure of the exact question. Are you referring to the Great Schism of 1054 when the Orthodox and Catholic Churches separated, or the Protestant schism, or the Anglican schism, or the post-Vatican II schisms? Each is a separate situation with very different causes and claims of legitimacy, and I'm not clear on the real question that's being asked.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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Jackie
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Posted: Wed Mar 5th, 2008 07:04 pm |
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No harm, no foul Rick. Thank you for pickin it up again.
Good grief. So many  where do I begin? Okay well, the Churches that are in communion with Rome would agree with how and what is required for the Ordination of Priests so they can Consecrate at Mass right?
Then I guess that leaves our Protestant bretheren. The part that I am unsure in my mind about is what criteria is met for them to become ministers (which for the most part was answered) But the laying on of hands thing, how did they qualify that? In my mind that went all the way back to Apostolic times as a way to confer Jesus mission to continue the ministerial priesthood (sacraments/Eucharist) Since we became seperated who stood in for them that allowed that stream (so to speak) to remain unbroken. The power and authority?
Is that making sense? Or am I on a merry-go-round because God never withholds Grace no matter what?
Lord above I'm afraid to ask, what's a Anglican and post Vatican II schism?
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Intercessor
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Posted: Wed Mar 5th, 2008 10:40 pm |
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Jackie, Southern Baptists lay hands on candidates (to become a minister or deacon) because of New Testament passages indicating that procedure.
Acts 6:6
1 Timothy 4:14
1 Timothy 5:22
2 Timothy 1:6
Do Southern Baptist ministers claim to be priests? Certainly not. They would deny the need for priests, following Christ's work on Calvary.
They would claim to have been ordained by ordained Baptist ministers who were ordained by ordained Baptist ministers and on back--- you get the idea. And they would claim to be following the teachings of the New Testament. (Scripture alone, remember?)
A Baptist child's version of the state of affairs:
--The New Testament Church can be found in the book of Acts.
--Over the centuries the Catholics gradually gained power and corrupted Christianity.
--Martin Luther saved the day with the Protestant Reformation.
--Baptists are the group most closely following the teachings of the New Testament Church.
(What happened between the book of Acts and the Protestant Reformation???
No instruction about saints or Church Fathers is given---best not to get into that period since the Catholics were in charge then.)
Please don't post arguments trying to persuade me how ridiculous this is, folks. I'm a Catholic now! I'm just trying to give you some sense of how a typical Baptist layperson would view the matter.Last edited on Thu Mar 6th, 2008 01:23 am by Intercessor
____________________
"If our charity is arrested by the difficulties encountered in dealing with our neighbor, . . . our relations with our brethren are not regulated by our love of God, but by our love of self." Divine Intimacy p. 781, Fr. Gabriel, O.C.D.
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CajunRick
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Posted: Thu Mar 6th, 2008 01:11 am |
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Jackie wrote:Good grief. So many where do I begin? Okay well, the Churches that are in communion with Rome would agree with how and what is required for the Ordination of Priests so they can Consecrate at Mass right?
Yes, but the Orthodox are not in communion with Rome. They do agree with us on the requirements for an ordained priesthood and consecration of the Eucharist. Eastern Catholic Churches are similar to the Eastern Orthodox and are in communion with Rome, but the Orthodox Churches are not.
Then I guess that leaves our Protestant bretheren. The part that I am unsure in my mind about is what criteria is met for them to become ministers (which for the most part was answered) But the laying on of hands thing, how did they qualify that?
Each did it in their own way. Without the authority of a Church to confer a sacrament, they have created their own systems of installation, qualification, etc. Some independent, non-denominational churches have essentially no criteria at all. A friend of mine is a member of a small congregation whose pastor never finished the eighth grade, and he (my friend) is now their assistant pastor even though he's never taken a formal course in anything since high school. But that is the exception, not the norm. Most have some type of formal education requirement and an installation ritual of some kind.
Lord above I'm afraid to ask, what's a Anglican and post Vatican II schism? Well, when the Anglicans (called Episcopalians in the U.S.) broke from Rome it was over a question of authority, not doctrine, so they were not technically "Protestant". Doctrinal differences came later. King Henry took many of the bishops with him. They claim apostolic succession and valid orders, although they are not recognized by the Catholic Church.
Since Vatican II, many small splinter groups have formed that claim that either Pope Pius XII or Pope John XXIII was the last legitimate pope, and that the office of the papacy is vacant. They use various reasons for saying they're right and the rest of the Church is wrong. Basically they're saying that the Catholic Church is not permitted to change. Many of their priests were legitimately ordained but left the Church and no longer have the authority to consecrate the Eucharist. About a dozen of these groups have chosen their own "pope", some with as few as 3 electors, and a couple have declared themselves "pope" claiming divine authority to do so.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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Credo Catholic
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Posted: Thu Mar 6th, 2008 05:05 am |
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My son's best friend and roommate at college was a theology major. He is evangelical, from a rural area in our state. With a four year degree in theology his small church back home hired him as associate pastor, where he has been now for about four years. He is looking now for his own church. The small home church ordained him and hired him.
I sometimes read another forum which is anti-catholic and evangelical. It's some sort of gluttony for punishment I have! Anyway, I read a thread started by someone who is "thinking" of starting a church. He has acquired suitable property and a bank loan. The question in the thread was "what to do next?" The answers varied from "are you sure the Holy Spirit is calling you to do this" to "Go for it."
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EMarshallBuckles
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| Location: | Rockville (Near Richmond), Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 565 |
| First Name: | Marshall | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Christian Church,Episcopal Church,Baptist denomination,learning about RCC |
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Posted: Thu Mar 6th, 2008 04:21 pm |
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| I was raised in an independent Christian Church. My understanding of their position, over the years, the opinion of the Christian Churches/Disciples of Christ/Churches of Christ group, so to speak, has been that people like Alexander Campbell (here in Virginia - we used to take in what is now West Virginia prior to the Civil War) and Barton Stone, over in Kentucky, got a congregational movement going, during the early 1800s, which attempts, so they say, to discard everything prior to the time the New Testament was written and to just take up again New Testament Christianity "from the git go" so to speak. Frankly, I don't think that they did a very good job of it, in my humble opinion, although they meant well. Likewise, Baptists, way further back, got a similar movement going. Both the Christian Church, et al, and the Baptists just don't think about - at least not much - what went on between, say, around the death of the Apostle John, and the more modern times. It's kind of like a book by Ayn Rand, "The Fountainhead", in which one character asks, if I remember correctly, "what do you think about me" and the other character replies, "I DON'T think about you!" When I went from the Christian Church to the Episcopal Church, I was astounded as I started to learn about this HUGE amount of church history, of people who bled and died for the faith or, at least, made huge sacrifices for it and so forth and I was NEVER taught about any of that! On one hand, I understand how Campbell, Stone and the like wanted to reform Christianity and to try to do away with some of the conflicts and corruption which had occurred, however, I tend to feel, if you'll pardon my imagery, that they used a bulldozer and dynamite when maybe a screwdriver to make a few tweaks would have been better. And despite their attempts, when you look at Christianity in the United States, WHO has over 65 million members in the United States and is the largest denomination here in the United States as well as world wide? The Roman Catholics! Oh well! While the Catholic Church has not been perfect, neither have the other denominations and I wish that we could find ways to be in closer communion with each other. Guess we will have to wait for heaven for that to occur. Oh, by the way, the Episcopalians, Anglicans, Methodists and some others regard themselves as still being in the Apostolic line - Bishops being consecrated by Bishops on back to Jesus.
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