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Luke12:48
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| Location: | Southeast, Pennsylvania USA |
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| First Name: | Kate | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle catholic, left for many years, returned June 2006 |
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Posted: Sat Oct 14th, 2006 10:11 pm |
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Is it correct to bow at the alter/crucifix or the tabernacle when going up to the microphone? I have been told two different things by two different people.
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CajunRick
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Posted: Sat Oct 14th, 2006 11:07 pm |
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Luke12:48 wrote: Is it correct to bow at the alter/crucifix or the tabernacle when going up to the microphone? I have been told two different things by two different people.
If the tabernacle is located within the sanctuary, I believe you should bow to the tabernacle. If it is located in an adoration chapel separate from the sanctuary, I believe you should bow to the altar of sacrifice.
Note that on entering and leaving the church, you should genuflect toward the Blessed Sacrament, which is located in the tabernacle. If the tabernacle is not in the sanctuary, you should bow (not genuflect) to the crucifix or altar of sacrifice.
We genuflect as a sign of worship and adoration, and worship and adoration are only appropriate when given to Jesus Christ who is God, in the Blessed Sacrament. We bow as a sign of respect, which is the appropriate gesture to the altar and to the crucifix.
So the real decision is based on where the tabernacle (and therefore the Blessed Sacrament) is located. When reading, you pay respect upon entering the sanctuary to the most important article within the sanctuary. If it is the tabernacle, then that's where your bow is directed. If it is the altar, then that is what you face. But you should not turn away from the sanctuary to bow toward the tabernacle.
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Luke12:48
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| Joined: | Sat Sep 30th, 2006 |
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| First Name: | Kate | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle catholic, left for many years, returned June 2006 |
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Posted: Sun Oct 15th, 2006 12:43 am |
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As always, a completely thorough answer. It takes a small stress away!
Thank you.
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beachmoss
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| First Name: | Beth | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Catholic (raised Baptist) |
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Posted: Wed Nov 15th, 2006 12:45 am |
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Is it ok to genuflect when going up or sould we only bow?
And a related question. My kids often like to go up to the front of the altar after mass to see the flowers. And especially at Christmas they want to see the creche. Should we genuflect or bow as we approach the front of the church?
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CajunRick
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Posted: Wed Nov 15th, 2006 12:57 am |
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beachmoss wrote: Is it ok to genuflect when going up or sould we only bow?
And a related question. My kids often like to go up to the front of the altar after mass to see the flowers. And especially at Christmas they want to see the creche. Should we genuflect or bow as we approach the front of the church?
Current teaching is that we genuflect when we enter the presence of the Blessed Sacrament, and bow at other times. Many also genuflect when leaving the presence. This is comparable to performance in the presence of a monarch, at least in the days when absolute monarchies were more common.
Some still genuflect whenever crossing in front of the Tabernacle, but that is not considered appropriate behavior during mass. You'll notice that the priest typically makes reverence when he enters the sanctuary and leaves it, when he consecrates the Precious Body and Precious Blood, and when he closes the Tabernacle door after communion. This is usually in the form of a genuflection but may also be a profound bow (a bow from the waist) when pastoral reasons dictate.
Please also note that a proper genuflection involves the knee touching the floor, unless a person is unable to do it because of health. Kids who barely bend their knee should be corrected, as should kids who "kneel" during mass with their butts on the pew. I told a 14-year old girl a month ago that I'd give her a wedgie if I ever caught her doing that again, and she's been kneeling with perfect posture ever since!
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beachmoss
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Posted: Wed Nov 15th, 2006 03:03 am |
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Thanks!
That's great about what you told that young lady! (I don't know how to quote on these boards.)
When my kids, whom are still young, complain about kneeling. I tell them they can give Jesus a few minutes on their knees because he hung on a cross three hours for them!
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CajunRick
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Posted: Wed Nov 15th, 2006 11:38 am |
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beachmoss wrote: Thanks!
That's great about what you told that young lady! (I don't know how to quote on these boards.)
Click the "Quote" button right next to "Reply"
The young lady is a very close friend whom I watched grow up, and I know her parents would have no problem with me carrying out my threat in front of them. Otherwise, such a threat would probably be a violation of the Safe Environment policies!
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Talithacumi
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| First Name: | Cheri | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic - Latin Rite |
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Posted: Mon Nov 20th, 2006 12:12 am |
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cajunrick wrote: Kids who barely bend their knee should be corrected, as should kids who "kneel" during mass with their butts on the pew. I told a 14-year old girl a month ago that I'd give her a wedgie if I ever caught her doing that again, and she's been kneeling with perfect posture ever since!
Rick,
OK, this is where one of those blushing emoticons would come in handy. I imagine that if you ever came to my parish, there might be a few people getting wedgies from you!  (including myself *blushing*). Yes, I admit it... sometimes I'm one of those butt-sitting kneelers...
Well, here's the thing... what about older folks who want to kneel, but have a hard time? And in my parish church, the kneelers don't seem to go back far enough, so that sometimes it feels like your knees are going to slip off of the kneeler. And it's like you have to sort of almost conclave (bet you didn't know that was a verb, eh? - well, I just turned it into one  ) your body to kneel. What's worse is that on the backs of the pews is where the missallettes and hymnals are kept in a sort of wooden slot. When one kneels, this missalette holder presses right into one's already conclaved and contorted body so that it's quite difficult to keep a kneeling position for long, especially for people who are not exactly skinny minnies or for those with bad knees.
I know that it's good to offer up one's sufferings, but when it gets so distracting that it takes away from being able to concentrate on the Mass, well... what does one do?
I hope you wouldn't give us all wedgies...
P.S. Sorry if I strayed too far from the main thread...
JMJ
- Cheri
Last edited on Mon Nov 20th, 2006 12:14 am by Talithacumi
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CajunRick
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Posted: Mon Nov 20th, 2006 12:31 am |
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Talithacumi wrote: cajunrick wrote: Kids who barely bend their knee should be corrected, as should kids who "kneel" during mass with their butts on the pew. I told a 14-year old girl a month ago that I'd give her a wedgie if I ever caught her doing that again, and she's been kneeling with perfect posture ever since!
OK, this is where one of those blushing emoticons would come in handy. I imagine that if you ever came to my parish, there might be a few people getting wedgies from you! (including myself *blushing*). Yes, I admit it... sometimes I'm one of those butt-sitting kneelers...
This was said to a specific young lady who I've known since she was 2, and she recently asked me to be her confirmation sponsor. Her mom used to work with me, and later converted from Muslim through my RCIA program. It is not something I would ever do to anyone else, although I might threaten it to kids who have no excuse to slouch except laziness.
Besides, it would be a direct violation of the Safe Environment training, and I would never do that. With this girl, her parents would not only give permission, they'd help. And she knows it. That's why it worked.
Many people have trouble kneeling for extended periods. But those who don't should not be encouraged to slouch.
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Talithacumi
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Posted: Mon Nov 20th, 2006 01:21 am |
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cajunrick wrote: OK, this is where one of those blushing emoticons would come in handy. I imagine that if you ever came to my parish, there might be a few people getting wedgies from you! (including myself *blushing*). Yes, I admit it... sometimes I'm one of those butt-sitting kneelers...
...It is not something I would ever do to anyone else, although I might threaten it to kids who have no excuse to slouch except laziness.
Rick,
Sorry if sometimes my weird sense of humor doesn't come through. I didn't really think you would do that to anyone else but someone that you knew really well!  I guess I was trying to be sort of facetious, plus I was just venting about our kneelers... they're not the best and I was just being whiney (and I just went to confession, too ) and trying to rationalize "butt-kneeling" because sometimes I feel the tiniest bit guilty when I do it, because I'm sure it comes across as "slouchy", even though I usually only do it long enough to rest myself before kneeling up straight again.
JMJ
- Cheri
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beachmoss
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Posted: Mon Nov 20th, 2006 02:46 am |
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| I was just thinking about this thread at mass Sunday when I was "butt-kneeling." I tried valiantly to kneel today, but I have either a badly sprained or fractured ankle on one leg, and a nasty scrape on the other knee. I just couldn't stay on my kness very long today. Believe me--I felt bad about it!!!
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CajunRick
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Posted: Mon Nov 20th, 2006 11:14 am |
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Talithacumi wrote: Sorry if sometimes my weird sense of humor doesn't come through.
I got your humor, but I have a bad habit of reading messages and thinking of what someone might think five years from now when they're reading the archives without a familiarity with either one of us. I just didn't want anyone to think I walk around our church pulling pretty girl's panties up out of their pants! The Safe Environment police would have a field day with an admission like that!
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CajunRick
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Posted: Mon Nov 20th, 2006 11:22 am |
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beachmoss wrote: I was just thinking about this thread at mass Sunday when I was "butt-kneeling." I tried valiantly to kneel today, but I have either a badly sprained or fractured ankle on one leg, and a nasty scrape on the other knee. I just couldn't stay on my kness very long today. Believe me--I felt bad about it!!!
I can't kneel for the rosary before mass, or I won't be able to make it through the Eucharistic prayer and communion. I've had surgery on one leg so they could take a vein to fix my heart, and butt-kneeling doesn't help, so I have to sit. I can kneel through mass but it does cause me some discomfort.
But it irritates me when I look around and see teens slouched over and butt-kneeling (that's a really good term!) when I know they don't have to. The funny thing is that butt-kneeling is standard practice in many Anglican/Episcopal churches. The kneelers are constructed in such a way that it's the only way it works! Maybe Gnyssa will find this thread and comment on the reason for that. I guess regular kneelers are "too Catholic" for them.
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Juan
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Posted: Sun Dec 31st, 2006 02:53 am |
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As a general rule, I don't bother anyone for their posture at Church or in prayer. Why? Because I believe it is one of the reasons I left the Church at an early age.
When I was young, grown ups made prayer and Mass so unpleasant for me that it made it very easy to begin questioning their value. In prayer, I had to kneel, no matter how hard the floor or how long the prayer (i.e. the Rosary seems to be the only prayer they knew) and I couldn't fidget or the shoe or belt came off. Believe me, I avoided prayer like the plague.
Mass was even worse. If I slouched, if I moved, if I was distracted, pow! A fist on my head. Nope, no Mass for me thankyou very much!
So for me, if a child is butt kneeling, slouching, but holding silence and otherwise obeying in Church, or in prayer that is fine with me. In fact, many time my wife and I have kneeled in prayer at home with our children sliding down our backs.
And God has blessed us with prayerful children.
Sincerely,
Juan
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CajunRick
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Posted: Sun Dec 31st, 2006 03:25 am |
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Juan wrote: As a general rule, I don't bother anyone for their posture at Church or in prayer. Why? Because I believe it is one of the reasons I left the Church at an early age.
And I completely agree with you, but this young lady is more like a granddaughter or a favorite niece, and she took it as playful teasing.
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