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stpetric
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Posted: Sun Oct 15th, 2006 03:01 pm |
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I am a brand-new Roman Catholic -- received October 9 after 26 years as an Anglo-Catholic and 12 years as an Anglican priest.
I take it as given that Anglicans do liturgical English better than Roman Catholics. They should; they've had over 450 years' practice! But over the past few years, I came to the point where I decided I could live with modern RC liturgical English.
After my reception last Monday, I spent the rest of the week on retreat at a monastery where the worship entails lots of Latin and Gregorian chant. Cool! I'm still buzzin'.
But then this morning, I went to the early Mass at my local Catholic parish. I should note that I live in an upscale kind of suburb, where the parish is likely to have both an aesthetically sophisticated congregation and the human and financial resources to support a great music program. But no!!! There's a heavily amplified Grade B cantor who seems to feel like she needs to conduct the congregation, accompanied by a keyboardist on toaster oven. Oops ... I mean, electronic organ. (Not a guitar to be seen, Deo gratias.) And the music? Other than a decent opening hymn, ghastly semi-folk for both the Mass setting and the hymns.
This music is heavily likely to be the cross I have to bear in my life as a Roman Catholic.
What on earth are these people thinking? - Why does a parish that can afford it not have a decent pipe organ?
- Why is the cantor amplified?
- Why does she need to "conduct" the congregation to come in at obvious cues?
- When they've got centuries' worth of great Catholic music to choose from, why to pick such dreck?
<sigh> I know, I know ... on the scale of suffering in the world, my complaints are really petty. But if I'm to live with this week in and week out, I need to come to some kind of understanding about it.
Any thoughts?
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Sun Oct 15th, 2006 05:21 pm |
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As you are finding out, stpetric, Catholics don’t seem to mend their human faults any better than the rest of humanity. That should come as no surprise. The biblical chosen people had the same traits.
I’m old enough to remember the Gregorian chant at the parish High Mass, and I loved it. Unfortunately, about five years after I became Catholic it was all pitched overboard and replaced by guitars and drums. Now, decades later, I have my choice between techno-tejano, jazzy dance bands or teeny-bopper rock. This is not what the Church officially designates as liturgical music.
People refer to this loss of heritage as the “Vatican II” phenomenon. Actually, it had more to do with the general apostasy and social upheaval of the sixties than the council, because the council changed nothing with regard to the liturgy. It simply allowed certain minor accommodations to be made. Poor taste is not an essential ingredient, but it seems to be the popular dressing.
The kind of understanding we converts eventually come to is this: Truth and authenticity more important than anything else, because therein lies God. And whether we like it or not, longsuffering is a virtue.
Welcome to the Catholic Church and to the CHN Forum.
David
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Attaflo_5
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Posted: Sun Oct 15th, 2006 06:45 pm |
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stpetric wrote:
This music is heavily likely to be the cross I have to bear in my life as a Roman Catholic.
What on earth are these people thinking?
- Why does a parish that can afford it not have a decent pipe organ?
- Why is the cantor amplified?
- Why does she need to "conduct" the congregation to come in at obvious cues?
- When they've got centuries' worth of great Catholic music to choose from, why to pick such dreck?
<sigh> I know, I know ... on the scale of suffering in the world, my complaints are really petty. But if I'm to live with this week in and week out, I need to come to some kind of understanding about it.
Any thoughts?
Welcome to the RC church. Your comments resonate with me. We do have great Catholic music to choose from, however, our recent history may shed some light on why "we" pick such "dreck".
After Vatican II and the reform of the Liturgy, the so-called experts mis-used the reform of the Liturgy documents to promote their own agenda, and the Folk-Mass with guitars was introduced. Then the St. Louis Jesuits got on board with Praise songs which sounded like Pop-Rock with Scripture texts inserted. Our local Priests and Bishops did nothing to counter the "experts", and failed to even suggest music more solidly Catholic and Sacred. Thus, the hapless Catholics in the pew were led to believe that the 'experts' were correctly interpreting the Vatican Documents, when in reality they were distorting it. Now that we have the benefit of the Internet and better access to solid teachers, we are learning that we were duped.
Take heart, there is a move afoot to return to proper Liturgical music. Change doesn't happen quickly in the church, but gradually there will be a shift back to greater Sacred Music. The problem then will be - who will be skilled enough to sing it? In our local choir of 25 +, only 2 of us know how to pronouce Latin and we both have one foot in the grave Also, most singers nowdays are crooners, not vocalists, and few know how to read music
As for the pipe organ - who will play it? There are not many pianists around anymore and even fewer Organists. Among the organists, few have been exposed to a real pipe organ.
In the long History of the church, there have been disagreements about what music is proper to the Mass. When polyphonic music was introduced, it was strongly objected to at first, but later became the norm. From the internet, I found an article on this here: http://mb-soft.com/believe/txc/plainson.htm
There is no reason why we can't speak to our local Priest and Bishop and express our desire for music above and beyond the mundane. So, you see, you are not alone. As for coming to an understanding about it: I'll never understand why we dropped the beautiful Sacred music we sang in church in my youth (1928 to @ 1950) We can commisserate with each other. I think we have much more company in this than we know of. My biggest consolation is that we have the Eucharist.
God's richest blessings on you and yours.
Maryellen
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CajunRick
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Posted: Sun Oct 15th, 2006 08:17 pm |
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stpetric wrote: I am a brand-new Roman Catholic -- received October 9 after 26 years as an Anglo-Catholic and 12 years as an Anglican priest.
I take it as given that Anglicans do liturgical English better than Roman Catholics. They should; they've had over 450 years' practice! But over the past few years, I came to the point where I decided I could live with modern RC liturgical English.
Gee, I wonder where the Anglicans got their liturgical language? Seems to me that the Anglicans broke away from the Catholic Church, which has been working on liturgical language for 2000 years. But then again, I'm sure you knew that. 
Seriously, you will find all kinds of worship within the Catholic Church, including a rite called Anglican Use. Our Lady of the Atonement Catholic Church in Texas sells a DVD of the Anglican Use liturgy, and also the Book of Divine Worship, which is a modified version of the Book of Common Prayer.
There are no Anglican Use parishes in Maryland that I could find, but it is possible that one of the other Catholic Churches might satisfy your craving for a more formal liturgy. You can locate a parish by going to the Byzantine Catholic web site. You might also want to look for a parish in your diocese that offers a Latin mass; most dioceses have them.
This music is heavily likely to be the cross I have to bear in my life as a Roman Catholic.
Try a Cathedral parish, or an old style church. They are more likely to have an active choir and at least one mass each weekend with superb music. Cathedral parishes in particular have choirs that perform for formal ceremonies such as ordinations, chrism masses, etc. Monasteries, convents, seminaries, retreat houses, etc., all are more likely to have more formal liturgy. If that's not satisfactory, go talk to your pastor. Perhaps you can use your talents as an Anglican priest to help locate musicians and singers.
Have you considered applying to become a Catholic priest? If you did not know that option was available to you, you can find out more information at the Pastoral Provision web site.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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CajunRick
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Posted: Sun Oct 15th, 2006 08:17 pm |
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stpetric wrote: I am a brand-new Roman Catholic -- received October 9 after 26 years as an Anglo-Catholic and 12 years as an Anglican priest.
I take it as given that Anglicans do liturgical English better than Roman Catholics. They should; they've had over 450 years' practice! But over the past few years, I came to the point where I decided I could live with modern RC liturgical English.
Gee, I wonder where the Anglicans got their liturgical language? Seems to me that the Anglicans broke away from the Catholic Church, which has been working on liturgical language for 2000 years. But then again, I'm sure you knew that.
Seriously, you will find all kinds of worship within the Catholic Church, including a rite called Anglican Use. Our Lady of the Atonement Catholic Church in Texas sells a DVD of the Anglican Use liturgy, and also the Book of Divine Worship, which is a modified version of the Book of Common Prayer.
There are no Anglican Use parishes in Maryland that I could find, but it is possible that one of the other Catholic Churches might satisfy your craving for a more formal liturgy. You can locate a parish by going to the Byzantine Catholic web site. You might also want to look for a parish in your diocese that offers a Latin mass; most dioceses have them.
This music is heavily likely to be the cross I have to bear in my life as a Roman Catholic.
Try a Cathedral parish, or an old style church. They are more likely to have an active choir and at least one mass each weekend with superb music. Cathedral parishes in particular have choirs that perform for formal ceremonies such as ordinations, chrism masses, etc. Monasteries, convents, seminaries, retreat houses, etc., all are more likely to have more formal liturgy. If that's not satisfactory, go talk to your pastor. Perhaps you can use your talents as an Anglican priest to help locate musicians and singers.
Have you considered applying to become a Catholic priest? If you did not know that option was available to you, you can find out more information at the Pastoral Provision web site.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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dljl2
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Posted: Mon Oct 16th, 2006 02:38 pm |
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Hello and welcome,
You may also want to investigate if there is an indult Tridentine mass in your area (FSSP or ICK). The music and liturgy is beautiful, traditional, and in full communion with the church.
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Tina in Ashburn
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Posted: Mon May 21st, 2007 02:43 pm |
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Stpetric brings up some really great points, er, and painful ones to some of us long-time Catholics. Let me add some comfort to your misery to say, yeah, we notice the same things as you.
Yes, the state of music in the Catholic Church is bad. If there is a way for you to become involved in music in your parish, do so. Not only is good taste apparently ignored but also the traditions, exhortations, and objective rules of appropriate liturgical music. Work on promoting good practices.
One method of improving music is to get educated. The Church speaks with awesome authority on music throughout the ages. Learn about it. Check out such websites as http://www.musicasacra.com/, http://www.adoremus.org/, and the Vatican's http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/institutions_connected/sacmus/ for Pontifical Music of Sacred Music. You can also simply use your favorite search engine to research this subject. For instance, once you learn the names of certain encyclicals, such as Sacrosanctum Concilium or Motu proprio Inter Sollicitudines, you can find them online or mentioned in speeches for context. Cardinal Arinze and Pope Benedict have much to say on this subject as they work to promote the "Reform of the Reform" to get back to Church traditions.
The next step is to spread what you learn. This can help pave the way for the changes by faithful Catholics.
On the one hand, the Catholic knows that the Liturgy is more important than the music. Our experience of the Mass is less important than the action of the priest. The Sacrifice will occur in the midst of bad music or none at all. On the other hand many Catholics do not understand the relationship between the Liturgy and music. The objective of liturgical music is to raise the hearts of man to prayer and union with the action on the altar. As you seem to understand, prayerfulness can be improved with the right music. Music is the handmaiden of the Mass. When this intrinsic relationship is ignored, gaaak! - terrible things can happen.
Due to the false reforms of Vatican II, our Traditions were thrown out almost overnight. Thus Catholics lost touch with common practices of sung Mass parts and solid Catholic hymnody. Having sung in our Diocese parishes for over 20 years, I see exercises in ignorance of seasonal and liturgical appropriateness. Fortunately I am in a Diocese where I can find parishes that have great music too.
Stpetric's comment: "There's a heavily amplified Grade B cantor"
Not many Catholic parishes pay musicians. Generally you get volunteers and the clergy is grateful to anyone who gives this kind of time. Unfortunately this doesn't typically include an audition. We take what we can get.
"who seems to feel like she needs to conduct the congregation" and "Why is the cantor amplified?"
If you check out the GIRM, which is a document written by our American bishops to guide liturgical norms, you'll find the directive for a song leader. Some of these directives could be stated a little differently as I for one, have found these cantors can be dreadfully distracting if they energetically wave their arms at the front of the church. But that's my OPINION. I prefer an unseen voice from the back of the Church.
Not knowing your exact situation, amplification is necessary for weak voices. Sorry to be obvious.  Not everyone has a voice trained to throw to the back corners of the church and we rely on a microphone. Were you suffering a poorly managed sound that was way too loud, still turned up for a packed church? When sound systems are put into churches, the poor priests are clueless about managing such things. The parish again relies on volunteers. Here in a parish nearby, in a beautiful new church, the sound system is a constant problem. If nobody is at the board at the right time, the priest can't be heard from the ambo or the choir isn't heard or the speakers crack. Every problem I've encountered in a church, I hear the same story: "when the church was built we consulted an acoustical engineer". Yeah, right. Did they come out from under a rock?? Whoever these acoustical experts are, they rarely understand speaker placement, architectural ramifications of sound, sound impacts of an empty church vs. a packed church, planning the day-to-day management of sound systems, competition of voice over amplified instruments, acoustical design of choir lofts, on and on...
"accompanied by a keyboardist on toaster oven"
Yea, we have one of those too here. My parish has no church yet and we congregate in the gym for Mass. Our excuse is that we don't have a church for an organ yet. Another parish I know has an organ but depending on who is helping out that day, its the luck of the draw. If the accompanist isn't an organist, they use the keyboard.
Didja' know that the Church states that the instrument of the Liturgy is the human voice, not the organ, tambourine, guitar, trumpet...? It is stated that the organ has "pride of place" from which you can surmise that the organ is the favored accompanying instrument of the Church. But above all is the voice. We are joined by angels, we have a soul and we pray when we sing. Our only real "audience" is God. Unbelievably, a bad out-of-tune voice is more pleasing to God than a well-played instrument. This isn't to say that instruments aren't allowed, the difference is that the most perfect choice is the voice. Clearly, distracting people at Mass with poor out-of-tune execution is not a good objective. We are asked to make the most beautiful music possible at Mass.
"ghastly semi-folk for both the Mass setting and the hymns"
Hoo-boy, where do I start?
The lack of concrete specific direction for music choices can be blamed here. If nobody tells us we can't sing something, then it will probably get sung. Today most priests have not had extensive musical and artistic training in the seminaries as they used to get. [Pope Benedict exhorts us to change this in Sacramentum Caritatis] At the same time our present bishops have not ever created concrete direction on what can be used, as was ordered by Vatican II. Some protestant denominations have their hymnal and you don't sing anything but what is in that book. Its easy to know what's acceptable and what is off-limits. Not so for the hapless Catholic. Our music has been handed over to the whim of any publisher who puts together a collection and sells it to parishes. In the "good ole days" our hymnals used to bear the Imprimatur of a bishop. The Imprimatur on a book told Catholics that nothing in that book was contrary to Catholic doctrine and could be safely read. This venerable practice fell away in the late 60s.
More on history here. Guess where the worst hymnody crept in to the Liturgy? At the Reformation. When the Mass parts got thrown out by the reformists, so did the sung Mass parts. Therefore hymns became the substance of the "service". As you know, these hymns couldn't mention the Eucharist, Mary, the saints or quote the books of the bible that were tossed or any "papist" belief. Then there was a backwash of bad hymns into the Catholic Mass. At this point, the Magisterium absolutely forbade hymns at Mass. This apparently was the only way to clean up the liturgy and reduce squabbling about the merits of this or that questionable hymn. Eventually, hymns were allowed back into the Mass. In the Byzantine rite, the entire Mass is ONLY sung and, at least in the Masses I've attended, no hymns whatsoever. Didja know that if parts of the Mass aren't sung, hymns aren't to be sung? The lesson here is that we have forgotten the precedence of sung Mass parts over hymns.
In the end, our musical experience is at the mercy of the priest, music director, or parish liturgical director. If these people are ignorant of the "rules", you get dreck. Our dreck is a result of misunderstanding of Authority in this matter, ignorance that rules exist, ignorance of our Traditions and their context, ignorance of the existence of 2000 years of music across more than 20 rites, uncorrected habits over the last 40 years, and ultimate resistance in "seeing" the need to change.
I use the term "rules" loosely just for brevity's sake. Involved in the choice of music is subjective good taste, appropriate sentiment, proper theological expression, representation of the fullness of the Faith, directives in encyclicals, exhortations, speeches - in all, its a huge subject that takes in all kinds of contexts and understanding.
I hope I shed some light. Too, lets pray for conversion of heart and our practice of music is no small matter, which we can include in this intention. Without prayer, its much harder to come to understand the need to change and obtain the desire to learn what the Church desires.
Ultimately we must grasp that God tells us how He wants to be worshipped. Its not up to us. Think about the details God states in building the Ark of the Covenant, or the words of the Our Father when the Apostles finally asked 'how should we pray?' And God speaks to us through the Authority of the Church.
____________________
Tina
Arlington Diocese
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CajunRick
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Posted: Mon May 21st, 2007 03:17 pm |
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First of all, Tina, welcome to the Coming Home Network. I noticed in your profile that you are a cradle Latin-rite Catholic who joined the Ukranian Church and have returned (or are at least attending) a Roman Catholic church once again, so we'll be really interested in hearing your story. I'm particularly interested in hearing your reasons for changing rites, and the process you had to go through to do it, if you would be willing to share it with us. When you're ready, you can post your faith story in Fellowship Hall or in Conversion Stories, whichever you feel is most appropriate.
Thanks again for joining CHN. We look forward to your active participation.
Tina in Ashburn wrote: Yes, the state of music in the Catholic Church is bad.
That is certainly true in most places, but thankfully not all. Many cathedrals have excellent choirs. Those of us who love sacred music can always take refuge in such churches from time to time, to escape the typical musically-challenged parish mass.
On the one hand, the Catholic knows that the Liturgy is more important than the music.
That is a very important point. Protestant churches tend to spend a much greater effort on music and preaching because it's all they have. As Catholics we have the Eucharist as the center and focus of worship. Music and preaching, as important as they are, are secondary to the presence of our Savior's Precious Body and Precious Blood.
Due to the false reforms of Vatican II, our Traditions were thrown out almost overnight.
I do have to disagree with this statement. Vatican II never called for most of the "reforms" carried out in its name. The problem was not and is not the council; it is the implementation by sometimes well-meaning American clerics who wanted to "protestantize" the liturgy by removing Latin, updating music, liberalizing language, de-emphasizing the proper role of the ordained clergy, etc. Vatican II never called for any of those changes.
Stpetric's comment: "There's a heavily amplified Grade B cantor"
Unfortunately, along with the changes that improperly followed Vatican II, churches began to be built without any concern for acoustics. The band (I can't call it a choir) was moved downstairs into a place where it was never intended to be, so amplification became necessary. The organ in my parish church is still in the choir loft and is not amplified, and neither is the choir. We do use amplification for a single organist/song leader, mostly because the singing in our parish is loud enough to drown him out if he doesn't use a microphone.
If you check out the GIRM, which is a document written by our American bishops to guide liturgical norms,
Actually, the GIRM is written in Rome and adapted by local bishop's conferences, with Vatican approval.
When sound systems are put into churches, the poor priests are clueless about managing such things.
That may be the most accurate statement I've ever read about parish churches! My pastor can't figure out how to change the CD in the CD player in our bell system, and if I didn't reset the clock, it would probably still be blinking 12:00 from Hurricane Katrina!
Unbelievably, a bad out-of-tune voice is more pleasing to God than a well-played instrument.
When I was the music director in my parish, I had a standard line, adapted (that is, stolen) from something I read in Reader's Digest many years ago: God gave you your voice. If he blessed you with a good one, it should be used in his praise. If he gave you a bad one, he deserves to hear it loud!
This isn't to say that instruments aren't allowed, the difference is that the most perfect choice is the voice.
Isn't it true that many of the Eastern liturgies are sung from start to finish, with no instrumentation other than the human voice?
More on history here. Guess where the worst hymnody crept in to the Liturgy? At the Reformation.
Payback: We got even when they started singing Faith of our Fathers!
In the end, our musical experience is at the mercy of the priest, music director, or parish liturgical director. If these people are ignorant of the "rules", you get dreck.
It is ultimately the responsibility of the pastor. At one time while studying for my certification in Liturgy my assignment was to form a Liturgy Committee in our parish. My pastor at the time said that was OK as long as we didn't meet more than quarterly and didn't change anything.
And God speaks to us through the Authority of the Church.
And the pastors of the Church (the bishops and priests) are often not listening.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Tina in Ashburn
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Posted: Mon May 21st, 2007 04:22 pm |
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Hi Rick, Thanks for your welcoming message. I'm still working on my conversion even though I never really left the Church ever. I mean, does the conversion process really ever stop? The confusions of the changes in the 60s fueled my switch to the Byzantines in 1979. But I am a Latin-riter at heart so I'm baaaaaaack. I'm so encouraged by the conversion stories I see on Marcus Grodi's Journey Home and seeing so many hearts that really care about the details in knowing God. I see evidence of a re-invigorated Church.
Oh yes. what you said. Thanks for your clarification.
When I said "false reforms of Vatican II" I meant what you said but you said it better. I never meant to denigrate the Councils of Vatican II. By "false" I meant that these were reforms falsely created and not based on the true intent of Vatican II. To counter this today, we have Pope Benedict calling for a "reform of the reform" and getting back to the original intent of this Council. The intent of Vatican II was to re-invigorate the Church and update certain practices. Somehow this intent was derailed by certain clergy. Some blame the ambiguity of the language of the Council and bad translations. Even Paul VI referred to the "smoke of Satan" that had entered the highest levels of the Church, obfuscating its Truths and confusing the Faithful.
My point: after Vatican II we lost many of our holy traditions and we must work to reinstitute them.
Isn't it true that many of the Eastern liturgies are sung from start to finish, with no instrumentation other than the human voice?
Yup yup that is correcto-mundo!
At one time while studying for my certification in Liturgy my assignment was to form a Liturgy Committee in our parish. My pastor at the time said that was OK as long as we didn't meet more than quarterly and didn't change anything.
Ha! that's funny. But consistent with a lot of other parishes. Yes, the laity in the Catholic Church can only advise, if that, even. Whereas in other denominations the Elders call the shots. It is appropriate for the pastor to be in charge. The Catholic Church is a Monarchy, not a Democracy or even a Republic. If you are lucky, the pastor is faithful and courageous.
Rick its good to hear that you are in the music field. I would love to see some discussions on music in here. Music is a big piece of Lex orandi, lex credendi! What are the general impressions of our newcomers to common Catholic musical practices? I'd really like to hear!
____________________
Tina
Arlington Diocese
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CajunRick
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Posted: Mon May 21st, 2007 04:57 pm |
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Tina in Ashburn wrote: When I said "false reforms of Vatican II" I meant what you said but you said it better.
Good. I'm happy to know you're not one of those who claims Vatican II was invalid and the papacy was vacated. I was afraid that was what you meant.
My point: after Vatican II we lost many of our holy traditions and we must work to reinstitute them.
That is certainly true, and I believe that is the sacred mission of Pope Benedict XVI.
The Catholic Church is a Monarchy, not a Democracy or even a Republic. If you are lucky, the pastor is faithful and courageous.
... and realizes he is not the monarch!
Rick its good to hear that you are in the music field. I would love to see some discussions on music in here. Music is a big piece of Lex orandi, lex credendi! What are the general impressions of our newcomers to common Catholic musical practices? I'd really like to hear!
As you explore our forum, you will find many lamentations on the current state of music in the average parish church, especially for those coming from faith traditions with a strong musical background such as high-church Anglicans.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Br_Carlo
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Posted: Tue May 22nd, 2007 08:43 am |
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God's peace. CajunRick said: "As you explore our forum, you will find many lamentations on the current state of music in the average parish church, especially for those coming from faith traditions with a strong musical background such as high-church Anglicans."
That would be me. There are times when I think my sojurn in purgatory will be lessened by the time I sit suffering under the sappy tunes that pass for sacred music, repeated endlessly, Sunday after Sunday, in my church. After you've heard the music in an Anglo-catholic cathedral (and after all, it's just the music that we Catholics should be hearing, since most of it came from our tradition anyway!), it's very hard to be content with amped-up Kumbaya.
One point I wish to contest: not all Protestant churches should have their worship enthusiasms dismissed with "that's all they have." Anglo-catholic churches sincerely (albeit wrongly) believe that they have both valid Orders and the Eucharist. Whatever may serve as their motive for excellence in music cannot logically be derived from their consciousness of a deficiency, which is what such a blow-off statement suggests. Blessings, ~Br_Carlo~
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Annie
Banned
| Joined: | Wed Feb 14th, 2007 |
| Location: | Columbus, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 731 |
| First Name: | Annie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nothing, Quaker, Mennonite, Presbyterian, Methodist, Anglican, Catholic |
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Posted: Tue May 22nd, 2007 11:19 am |
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| I am with Br. Carlo on this. Imagine my dismay to discover that I joined the Church expecting the greatest music of the Western tradition and what I am getting is hymns where we sing God's part (Here I Am, Lord) and congratulate ourselves on being holy. I LOVED the Methodist hymnal like no other but I want Catholic music in a Catholic church, not some watered-down Protestant hymnody, with the lyrics changed to delete "objectionable" theology. sigh.:?
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Annie
Ora et labora
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Tina in Ashburn
Member
| Joined: | Mon May 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | Ashburn, Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 282 |
| First Name: | Tina | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Roman Catholic, Ukranian Catholic, presently practicing as Roman Latin ... |
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Posted: Tue May 22nd, 2007 01:40 pm |
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I'm with ya sistah Annie and bro Vince [Br_Carlo],
It confuses me when I am put on the defensive for wanting Catholic music at a Catholic Mass. The old standbys add to the liturgy because the text teaches the fullness of the Faith. The popularity of some music is because it does not offend non-Catholics since it says so little.
I'm not saying new is always bad. It’s that we have lost touch with the constraints of what bad music consists. We want to be Catholics and most here have put forth great effort in learning about our Faith, its history, development, the Fathers of the Church, apologetics, Biblical interpretation, etc. Has anyone here delved equally into what the Church teaches about music? It’s not about opinion, just like I don't care what Luther thought. Opinion is irrelevant in the light of inspired doctrine. The same goes for liturgical music; our opinion is irrelevant when we have definite Church teachings on this.
Help me somebody.
In another vein, anybody ever read this article by Father Scalia? Entitled "Ritus Narcissus: Why Do We Sing Ourselves and Celebrate Ourselves?" what do you think?
http://www.adoremus.org/399Scalia.html
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Tina
Arlington Diocese
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Annie
Banned
| Joined: | Wed Feb 14th, 2007 |
| Location: | Columbus, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 731 |
| First Name: | Annie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nothing, Quaker, Mennonite, Presbyterian, Methodist, Anglican, Catholic |
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Posted: Tue May 22nd, 2007 01:43 pm |
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I am familiar with this article and am in complete agreement. I cringe at the lyrics we are singing. Or in my case, not singing. And I love to sing so this is double penance.
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Annie
Ora et labora
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Ali
Member
| Joined: | Sat Jan 6th, 2007 |
| Location: | Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 663 |
| First Name: | Ali | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | JW, finally fully Catholic |
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Posted: Tue May 22nd, 2007 02:42 pm |
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I thought it was just me
And I'm not saying anything else, in case our music guy should somehow stumble onto this site.
Love,
Ali
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