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brian
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| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
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| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
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Posted: Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 08:42 pm |
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I know that it is acceptable to fulfill one's obligation in an Eastern Catholic Church, but what about Holy days of obligation and other solemnities? Is it enough to simply go to church that day even if the other rite is not celebrating the same day? Is it different for Holy Days or solemnities or just one? For instance both rites are clebrating the nativity of John the Baptist this week. Does tha make either acceptable or does it not matter too much because this is a soloemnity and not a Holy Day? If the East was not celebrating this day would it be better to make sure to go where I am in obedience to?
I think my current understanbding is that as long as you go to church on the day you are supposed to it does not matter, East or West, you are fulfilling the obligation even when they are on different scedules. I would still prefer to go where the day is being celebrated, but technically I think even if on Easter or Jan 1 I went to an Easern Church and they were celebrating something else I would still be technically ok. Of course I would prefer to liturgically celebrate these days where I belong, but I am only saying technically.
I ask because I want to go to the Eastern church tomorrow and I was wondering if it being a solemnity makes it any different or makes me more or less obliged to go where I am.
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CajunRick
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
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| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 10:08 pm |
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brian wrote: I know that it is acceptable to fulfill one's obligation in an Eastern Catholic Church, but what about Holy days of obligation and other solemnities?
You may fulfill your obligation in any Catholic church. It doesn't matter whether they are celebrating the feast on the same day or not. However, in the United States, Holy Days will most likely be celebrated on the same day. Solemnities are different. If they carry no particular obligation (the Nativity of John the Baptist is not a Holy Day in the United States), the dates may not match in the Eastern Churches.
You are obligated to attend mass on Sundays and on Holy Days of Obligation in the Latin Rite diocese where you happen to be. However, you may fulfill your obligation in any Catholic church, even if the liturgy is different.
According to ByzCath June 24th is both the Fourth Sunday after Pentecost and the Solemnity of the Nativity of John the Baptist, perhaps depending on the particular rite you might be visiting. The readings given for Sunday are different from the ones for the Nativity, so which readings you will hear proclaimed will depend on which Church's Divine Liturgy you will be attending.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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brian
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 746 |
| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
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Posted: Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 11:38 pm |
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CajunRick wrote: brian wrote: I know that it is acceptable to fulfill one's obligation in an Eastern Catholic Church, but what about Holy days of obligation and other solemnities?
You may fulfill your obligation in any Catholic church. It doesn't matter whether they are celebrating the feast on the same day or not. However, in the United States, Holy Days will most likely be celebrated on the same day. Solemnities are different. If they carry no particular obligation (the Nativity of John the Baptist is not a Holy Day in the United States), the dates may not match in the Eastern Churches.
You are obligated to attend mass on Sundays and on Holy Days of Obligation in the Latin Rite diocese where you happen to be. However, you may fulfill your obligation in any Catholic church, even if the liturgy is different.
According to ByzCath June 24th is both the Fourth Sunday after Pentecost and the Solemnity of the Nativity of John the Baptist, perhaps depending on the particular rite you might be visiting. The readings given for Sunday are different from the ones for the Nativity, so which readings you will hear proclaimed will depend on which Church's Divine Liturgy you will be attending.
You are obligated to attend mass on Sundays and on Holy Days of Obligation in the Latin Rite diocese where you happen to be. However, you may fulfill your obligation in any Catholic church, even if the liturgy is different.
Thanks Rick. What exactly does that first sentence mean? In the Latin Rite diocese where I happen to be? Does that mean I have to attend them in that location, or in a church within the diocese? Or does that mean I have to attend them on the dates according to what and when they are chosen to be celebrated in my diocese regardless of which Catholic church I attend or what city or country I happened to be in? I think that last one is what you mean. Sorry if I am slow, I just like to be sure.
What I think you are saying is what I originally thought about this was the case. That as long as I go to any Catholic Church on a Holy Day no matter which liturgy they are celebrating that I do fulfill my obligation. So if it was Corpus Christi or feast of the Immaculate Concpetion or any holy day for instance and I went to an Eastern Church I would still fulfill the obligation even if they would not be celebrating that. It is going to church that fulfills the obligation, not necessarily being at the specific liturgy of the holy day.
Not that I am all about technicalities or simply wanting to fulfill obligations. But in this discussion I just want to be sure I understand what the rules are.
thanks for your help,
Brian
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CajunRick
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Posted: Sun Jun 24th, 2007 12:50 am |
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brian wrote: CajunRick wrote: You are obligated to attend mass on Sundays and on Holy Days of Obligation in the Latin Rite diocese where you happen to be. However, you may fulfill your obligation in any Catholic church, even if the liturgy is different.
Thanks Rick. What exactly does that first sentence mean?
It means just what it says, Brian. The obligation to attend mass is determined by the rules where you are, not the rules in your home diocese (unless that's where you happen to be).
The Solemnity of Sts. Peter and Paul is a Holy Day of Obligation in many countries, including the Vatican. If you happen to be at the Vatican on that day, you are obligated to attend mass. If you are in the United States, where it is not a Holy Day of Obligation, you are not obligated to attend mass.
Ascension Thursday is a Holy Day of Obligation in Nebraska. If you happen to be in Nebraska on the 40th day after Easter, you are obligated to attend mass. If you are in Louisiana, the feast has been transferred to Sunday, so on that Thursday you are not obligated to attend mass.
If you are from Nebraska but visiting in Louisiana, you are not obligated to attend mass on Ascension Thursday even if it is a Holy Day of Obligation in your home diocese.
If you are from Louisiana but visiting in Nebraska, you are obligated to attend mass on Ascension Thursday even if it is not a Holy Day of Obligation in your home diocese, because it is a Holy Day of Obligation in the diocese where you happen to be on that day.
All Saints' Day is not a Holy Day of Obligation in Hawaii. If you happen to be visiting in Hawaii on November 1, you are not obligated to attend mass because you are in a diocese where it is not a Holy Day of Obligation. If you are from Hawaii and you happen to be visiting on the mainland on November 1, you are obligated to attend mass. (Different rules apply if November 1 is a Saturday or a Monday.)
So as a Catholic of the Latin Rite, the rules of the Latin Rite diocese in which you happen to be located are the rules that apply to you. If you are obligated to attend mass on a certain day, you may fulfill your obligation in any Catholic church, including the Eastern Catholic Churches, even if it is not a Holy Day of Obligation in that particular Eastern Rite.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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brian
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
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| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
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Posted: Sun Jun 24th, 2007 02:14 am |
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thank you for clearing that up. It was actually the opposite of what I expected it to be. I thought where you lived would be what you would follow. So that means if I did much traveling near cwertain holy days I may need to find out if where I am going has anything like that going on. Though I suppose if one were from Hawaii visiting the states and did not know to go to church because nobody ever told them this that they would not be as guilty as choosing not to go.
CajunRick wrote:
So as a Catholic of the Latin Rite, the rules of the Latin Rite diocese in which you happen to be located are the rules that apply to you. If you are obligated to attend mass on a certain day, you may fulfill your obligation in any Catholic church, including the Eastern Catholic Churches, even if it is not a Holy Day of Obligation in that particular Eastern Rite.
but what I was looking for as plain as day is this last part. That even if it is not a Holy Day or anything like the Holy Day it still counts. So if I go to an Eastern Church on All Saints Day but they were celebrating something entirely different that day it still fulfills the obligation.
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Darlene
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Pocono Mountains, Pennsylvania USA |
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Posted: Sun Jun 24th, 2007 05:58 pm |
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Of course, one could really complicate the matter and ask, how would this rule of the church apply to, let's say, an astronaut, or a mountain climber, or a seviceman in the Navy on a submarine, or a pilot who will be in various locations on that Holy Day of obligation? The astrounaut who is in space on an aircraft or living on a space station is not even on the earth. Neither, of course, is the pilot who is either in the air, flying over various locations or on the earth, transferring from one plane to another. And the poor mountain climber is not even near a church. Then, there is the serviceman on the submarine, who will be traversing various parts of the oceans or seas, not definitively knowing which country (technically) he may be in from one hour to the next. And even if he does, are there provisions for him to attend Mass on the submarine?
Now before anyone considers responding in a serious mode, let me say that I am partly being humorous here. Perhaps even more than partly. You see, I can make things pretty complicated too, if I want.  I spose I's jest in a playful, sparring mood.
Please, don't feel as though you must answer any of those possibilities. 
Darlene
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The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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CajunRick
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Posted: Sun Jun 24th, 2007 08:13 pm |
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Darlene wrote: And the poor mountain climber is not even near a church.
There are many monasteries located at the top of mountains. You just have to climb the right mountain!
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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