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supermombond
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| Joined: | Mon Jul 16th, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 2 |
| First Name: | Adele | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | RC |
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Posted: Mon Jul 16th, 2007 02:29 pm |
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Is tere a requiremetn in the new approval of the Tridentine Mass for the Priest to put his back to the congregation? Is It Canon law?
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Annie
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| Joined: | Wed Feb 14th, 2007 |
| Location: | Columbus, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 718 |
| First Name: | Annie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nothing, Quaker, Mennonite, Presbyterian, Methodist, Anglican, Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Jul 16th, 2007 03:27 pm |
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| The priest is not turning his back to the congregation. Both he and the people are worshiping "outward" toward God. It is a more "vertical" worship style. And yes, this is the way the Tridentine Mass is done. There is very little latitude in the rubrics for that form of the rite.
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Annie
Ora et labora
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japhy
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| Joined: | Thu Apr 26th, 2007 |
| Location: | Princeton, New Jersey USA |
| Posts: | 179 |
| First Name: | Jeff / japhy | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | (Roman) Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Jul 16th, 2007 04:45 pm |
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supermombond wrote: Is tere a requiremetn in the new approval of the Tridentine Mass for the Priest to put his back to the congregation? Is It Canon law?
The motu proprio does not affect the Pauline Rite (the "Novus Ordo" Mass, the one developed after Vatican II). It simply re-affirms that the Mass of John XXIII (the "Tridentine" Mass) is permitted and increases its availability, and regulates that availability.
Part of the rubrics for the Tridentine Mass include the priest facing the same direction as the congregation -- that is, towards the altar and the tabernacle -- during the majority of the Mass. The priest does turn towards the congregation when he says "oremus" ("let us pray") because he is speaking to the congregation then. The majority of the things said by the priest are being spoken to God, not to us.
The documents of Vatican II that described the reform of the liturgy never mandated a turning of the priest towards the congregation. It is only after Vatican II that the documents begin to describe moving the altar away from the back (east) wall of the church so as to allow celebration facing the people:
Inter Oecumenici: 91. The main altar should preferably be freestanding, to permit walking around it and celebration facing the people. Its location in the place of worship should be truly central so that the attention of the whole congregation naturally focuses there.
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[Mary said,] "Do whatever he tells you." - John 2:5
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supermombond
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| Joined: | Mon Jul 16th, 2007 |
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| Posts: | 2 |
| First Name: | Adele | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | RC |
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Posted: Mon Jul 16th, 2007 07:59 pm |
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the real question is still not answered. Can the Tridentine Mass be said at the new altars facing the congregation? In many churches it is the only altar available and the cruicifix has been moved to above the front of this altar.
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Tina in Ashburn
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| Joined: | Mon May 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | Ashburn, Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 263 |
| First Name: | Tina | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Roman Catholic, Ukranian Catholic, presently practicing as Roman Latin ... |
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Posted: Mon Jul 16th, 2007 08:43 pm |
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Adele,
Can the Tridentine Mass be said at the new altars facing the congregation? In many churches it is the only altar available and the cruicifix has been moved to above the front of this altar.
Annie wrote:
And yes, this is the way the Tridentine Mass is done. There is very little latitude in the rubrics for that form of the rite.
I think Annie answered your question. The Tridentine Mass, can only be said facing away from the people, - which actually is towards the Tabernacle if the Tabernacle is placed correctly.
I don't think Canon law applies here, this concerns the 'rubrics' of the Mass which are very strict for the 1962 Missal.
If there is not room for the priest to stand on the opposite side of the "table", then no, saying Mass according to the 1962 Missal won't be allowed by the rubrics. Not sure how there wouldn't be room since the priest typically approaches the table on that side as Mass begins anyway. So in other words, the priest simply stands on the other side of the altar and faces the Tabernacle to say the 1962 Mass. The altar doesn't have to be up against the wall.
Also, there must be a crucifix present, if its above, behind, or in front I don't think it matters unless I don't understand question.
Did that answer the question for you?
I hope you can attend a Mass in the extraordinary form soon!
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Tina
Arlington Diocese
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CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 4981 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Mon Jul 16th, 2007 09:04 pm |
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supermombond wrote: Is tere a requiremetn in the new approval of the Tridentine Mass for the Priest to put his back to the congregation? Is It Canon law?
First of all, let me welcome you to the Coming Home Network. We look forward to getting to know you better, and hearing your faith story when you're ready to share it with us.
You didn't give us your faith history, Adele, so I don't know if you're a lifetime Catholic (like me), a revert, or a convert, but whatever your "track record" we're glad to have you here with us.
As to your question, the rules for celebrating mass are included in what are called the "rubrics" which are a part of the missal. They're not in Canon Law, which only specifies that the rules are to be followed. That way, the "law" can apply generically to each of the many different rites allowed in the Catholic Church.
To the best of my knowledge at this time, the extraordinary form of the Latin Rite is celebrated according to the 1962 Roman Missal approved by Pope John XXIII. I have read that that particular mass did not specify the orientation of the liturgy, but I cannot vouch for that independently. As far as I know, it requires an altar where the priest can offer the celebration facing in the same direction as the people, and also a communion rail for distribution of the sacrament. None of the rules have been changed at this time, although the Holy Father has granted Ecclesia Dei the authority to process requests. If, for example, a priest wished to celebrate the extraordinary form of the liturgy facing the people, he could conceivably request permission to do so from Ecclesia Dei.
After three years, there is to be a review, and I believe the environment of churches will be considered at that time. Meanwhile, the ordinary form may be celebrated in Latin with the priest facing the people.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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