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NanaR
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| Joined: | Sat Jun 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Kentucky USA |
| Posts: | 141 |
| First Name: | Ruth | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Born JW, born-again Catholic (Tiber Swim Team 2008) |
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Posted: Fri Sep 21st, 2007 09:30 pm |
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I was reading Kayla's blog this evening and she had an entry regarding the Sign of Peace in the Mass.
Here's what's happening at the Mass I've been attending. It's in a very small Church, no music. The priest who officiates is from my parish. One of the main characteristics of his Mass is long refreshing periods of silence.
That is why what is happening at the Sign of Peace is so confusing to me. We stand and say the Our Father, then start to do the Sign of Peace. Everyone turning every which way shaking hands. But WHILE THE HAND SHAKING IS GOING ON, someone (Father? I can't tell, I'm in the back) starts the Lamb of God. I'm prepared to stop shaking hands, because half the congregation is chanting the Lamb of God. But hands are still coming at me.
I'm new to this particular Church. I would think the regular folks would "know the drill" so to speak. Apparently Father wants to shorten the hand shaking during the Sign of Peace. But it goes on anyway.
And, as Kayla said in her blog, the hand shaking does disrupt my concentration on the Liturgy.
So what should I do? Ignore the hands? Or shake them while chanting the Lamb of God?
This has happened every time I've been to this Mass, so I need to figure out how to handle it. It doesn't happen in the regular Church, because we have a Cantor there, and he waits to start the Lamb of God.
Also, when I first walk in, I'm all ready to hit my knees and pray, but they are all talking. (This Church is so small -- open the door and you are in the main sanctuary -- no Narthex).
Any suggestions for a newby?
Ruth
____________________
When you bend down to help someone up, that is the best exercise for your heart. -- Fr. Noe, 2007
http://nanaruthann.blogspot.com
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Credo Catholic
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| Joined: | Sat May 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 1212 |
| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Fri Sep 21st, 2007 10:40 pm |
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| This little church is so small that everything you do or don't do is seen and noticed by everyone. It is hard to ignore a handshake being offered to you. Or to ignore people who try to talk to you when you're trying to kneel in prayer. And if you do ignore them and appear self-righteous, that won't help you or them! I have found that during the Lord's Prayer, when other people are bent on holding hands, I clasp mine together in front of me in a prayer position and it discourages them from reaching for my hands. I do it with my head bowed and eyes closed at first, so there is a bit of self-imposed isolation for a moment. But it works for me. I'm not into holding hands with everyone and lifting them up in the air. You could try this when you hear the "Lamb of God" being started. As for entering the sanctuary in prayer, I don't know. It sounds like this little congregation is family-like in it's size and behavior. It might be good to let yourself become part of the family at first. Not irreverently, of course. Then you can gradually begin your kneeling as you want to, once they know you well as one of them. In a large church with hundreds of people, it's easier to "do your own thing."
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JasPax
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| Joined: | Wed Nov 22nd, 2006 |
| Location: | North Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 208 |
| First Name: | James | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Episcopal to Catholic |
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Posted: Sat Sep 22nd, 2007 01:32 pm |
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NanaR wrote: Here's what's happening at the Mass I've been attending. It's in a very
That is why what is happening at the Sign of Peace is so confusing to me. We stand and say the Our Father, then start to do the Sign of Peace. Everyone turning every which way shaking hands. But WHILE THE HAND SHAKING IS GOING ON, someone (Father? I can't tell, I'm in the back) starts the Lamb of God. I'm prepared to stop shaking hands, because half the congregation is chanting the Lamb of God. But hands are still coming at me.
Hello: Someone with more knowledge may wish to comment on this, but I understand there is a study being done now that may move the Peace to just before the Gifts are taken to the Altar. As in- Be reconciled to your brethren before you offer your gifts to God. Pesonally, that seems to make more sense than breaking up the Eucharistic Liturgy with a lot of commotion. I also understand that the Peace is supposed to be given just to the two or three persons nearest you. Not supposed to be like Old Home Week with a lot of moving about and talking. Maybe your Priest is moving on quickly to try to get that message across. God's Blerssings,
____________________
James
"Abide in me, and I in you..." John 15:4
"He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him." John 6:56
RSV-2CE
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NanaR
Member
| Joined: | Sat Jun 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Kentucky USA |
| Posts: | 141 |
| First Name: | Ruth | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Born JW, born-again Catholic (Tiber Swim Team 2008) |
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Posted: Sat Sep 22nd, 2007 03:59 pm |
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JasPax wrote: NanaR wrote: Here's what's happening at the Mass I've been attending. It's in a very
That is why what is happening at the Sign of Peace is so confusing to me. We stand and say the Our Father, then start to do the Sign of Peace. Everyone turning every which way shaking hands. But WHILE THE HAND SHAKING IS GOING ON, someone (Father? I can't tell, I'm in the back) starts the Lamb of God. I'm prepared to stop shaking hands, because half the congregation is chanting the Lamb of God. But hands are still coming at me.
Hello: Someone with more knowledge may wish to comment on this, but I understand there is a study being done now that may move the Peace to just before the Gifts are taken to the Altar. As in- Be reconciled to your brethren before you offer your gifts to God. Pesonally, that seems to make more sense than breaking up the Eucharistic Liturgy with a lot of commotion. I also understand that the Peace is supposed to be given just to the two or three persons nearest you. Not supposed to be like Old Home Week with a lot of moving about and talking. Maybe your Priest is moving on quickly to try to get that message across. God's Blerssings,
JasPax:
I think this may be the article you are referring to:
http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0701411.htm
This is a brief quote from that article:
-- Pope Benedict said the sign of peace at Mass "has great value," especially in demonstrating the church's responsibility to pray for peace and unity in a world too often troubled by division, violence and hatred.
While Catholics at Mass should exchange a sign of peace with those near them, he also called for "greater restraint" to ensure the moment does not become one of irreparable distraction.
The pope said, "I have asked the competent curial offices to study the possibility of moving the sign of peace to another place (in the Mass), such as before the presentation of the gifts at the altar. To do so would also serve as a significant reminder of the Lord's insistence that we be reconciled with others before presenting our gifts to God."
I expect Father Noe is trying to limit the commotion from the Sign of Peace in this little Church where the folks seem to be getting a bit carried away with it. As a matter of fact, I'm going to listen really carefully tomorrow to see if he is actually directing that we offer the Sign of Peace. He could be omitting it (apparently it is optional and its use is up to the celebrant), and the congregation is not getting the point (due to habit).
Interesting...
Ruth
____________________
When you bend down to help someone up, that is the best exercise for your heart. -- Fr. Noe, 2007
http://nanaruthann.blogspot.com
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Kayla
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| Joined: | Mon Jul 30th, 2007 |
| Location: | Emmitsburg, Maryland USA |
| Posts: | 349 |
| First Name: | Kayla | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Atheist, kind-of Mormon, Catholic |
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Posted: Sat Sep 22nd, 2007 09:52 pm |
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NanaR wrote:
JasPax:
I think this may be the article you are referring to:
http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0701411.htm
This is a brief quote from that article:
-- Pope Benedict said the sign of peace at Mass "has great value," especially in demonstrating the church's responsibility to pray for peace and unity in a world too often troubled by division, violence and hatred.
While Catholics at Mass should exchange a sign of peace with those near them, he also called for "greater restraint" to ensure the moment does not become one of irreparable distraction.
The pope said, "I have asked the competent curial offices to study the possibility of moving the sign of peace to another place (in the Mass), such as before the presentation of the gifts at the altar. To do so would also serve as a significant reminder of the Lord's insistence that we be reconciled with others before presenting our gifts to God."
I expect Father Noe is trying to limit the commotion from the Sign of Peace in this little Church where the folks seem to be getting a bit carried away with it. As a matter of fact, I'm going to listen really carefully tomorrow to see if he is actually directing that we offer the Sign of Peace. He could be omitting it (apparently it is optional and its use is up to the celebrant), and the congregation is not getting the point (due to habit).
Interesting...
Ruth
Now this would make much more sense to me. I understand the necessity of the Sign of Peace ((not sure of the reference, but that we ought not to approach the altar with reproach for our brothers)), but exactly where it is in the liturgy simply is beyond me.
As for your particular problem, Ruth, the same tends to happen during the daily Masses in our small chapel on Campus. What I will generally try to do is turn back towards the Tabernacle, fold my hands together, and begin reciting the Lamb of God. Usually this will deter anyone from attempting to give me their hand, although if they insist, I will of course take it.
I am interested in seeing if anything comes from our Holy Father's comments. I should very much like it if his suggestion is taken into action.
____________________
I believe, Lord, help my unbelief.
Jesus, I trust in You!
There's not a lot of job security for us after death. I suppose that's one advantage of being a philosopher. - Peter Kreeft
http://kayla23mount.blogspot.com/
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CajunRick
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 4981 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Sun Sep 23rd, 2007 12:45 pm |
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JasPax wrote:
NanaR wrote: Everyone turning every which way shaking hands. But WHILE THE HAND SHAKING IS GOING ON, someone (Father? I can't tell, I'm in the back) starts the Lamb of God. I'm prepared to stop shaking hands, because half the congregation is chanting the Lamb of God. But hands are still coming at me. Hello: Someone with more knowledge may wish to comment on this, but I understand there is a study being done now that may move the Peace to just before the Gifts are taken to the Altar. As in- Be reconciled to your brethren before you offer your gifts to God. Pesonally, that seems to make more sense than breaking up the Eucharistic Liturgy with a lot of commotion. I also understand that the Peace is supposed to be given just to the two or three persons nearest you. Not supposed to be like Old Home Week with a lot of moving about and talking. Maybe your Priest is moving on quickly to try to get that message across
The original intent of the Sign of Peace is to reconcile with your neighbor if you have a grudge against him. To do it right, you should turn to someone you offended and apologize, not greet everyone within eyesight.
Obviously it hasn't worked, and it does indeed disrupt the solemnity of the sacrament. So Pope Benedict has asked that consideration be given to moving it earlier in the ceremony. Scripture tells us if we have a sacrifice to be offered but we have a grudge against our neighbor, we should leave our gift and be reconciled with our neighbor, so placing it just before the presence of the offertory gifts makes scriptural sense. However, if we're going to use it as a general greeting (which is pretty much what we're doing) I think it should be immediately after the Sign of the Cross at the beginning of mass, and when the Holy Father calls for my opinion, that's what I'll tell him.
Last edited on Sun Sep 23rd, 2007 12:50 pm by CajunRick
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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JasPax
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| Joined: | Wed Nov 22nd, 2006 |
| Location: | North Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 208 |
| First Name: | James | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Episcopal to Catholic |
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Posted: Sun Sep 23rd, 2007 05:10 pm |
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Rick:
Don't leave home without your cell phone! You're probably on the Vatican speed dial.
____________________
James
"Abide in me, and I in you..." John 15:4
"He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him." John 6:56
RSV-2CE
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CajunRick
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Posted: Sun Sep 23rd, 2007 05:38 pm |
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JasPax wrote: Rick:
Don't leave home without your cell phone! You're probably on the Vatican speed dial.
Somehow, I don't think so.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Kayla
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| Joined: | Mon Jul 30th, 2007 |
| Location: | Emmitsburg, Maryland USA |
| Posts: | 349 |
| First Name: | Kayla | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Atheist, kind-of Mormon, Catholic |
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Posted: Sun Sep 23rd, 2007 07:41 pm |
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| Just out of curiosity, how long would a change such as this take to implement, if it were approved? Do you think there would be a lot of uproar about it?
____________________
I believe, Lord, help my unbelief.
Jesus, I trust in You!
There's not a lot of job security for us after death. I suppose that's one advantage of being a philosopher. - Peter Kreeft
http://kayla23mount.blogspot.com/
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CajunRick
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Posted: Sun Sep 23rd, 2007 08:24 pm |
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Kayla wrote: Just out of curiosity, how long would a change such as this take to implement, if it were approved? Do you think there would be a lot of uproar about it?
I think this particular change would be easy to accomplish and well accepted. However, remember that we as Catholics don't do anything "just because". It will take years of study to determine whether it's theological significance is reasonable, then the rubrics need to be promulgated (Before the Creed or after? How will it affect the collection and the Offertory Procession? What is the effect on the Offertory Song? Where does it fit with the Prayers of the Faithful, before or after? Should it still be called a sign of peace? Should the wording used to introduce it be changed? Can a minister invite the sharing or should it still be restricted to a deacon or priest, or only to the priest himself? How will it affect the liturgy on weekdays and at weddings and funerals when the Creed is not recited? Would it be better placed somewhere else, such as at the beginning of mass? Should it be made mandatory or left optional?) And after all of that, it needs to be translated into the various languages of the vernacular mass.
And that's for an "easy" change! The Church has been working actively for a dozen years on just a new translation of the ordinary liturgy!! There won't be any changes at all to the mass, just to the English translation, and it's taken more than a decade and the end is not in sight.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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