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NanaR
Member
| Joined: | Sat Jun 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Kentucky USA |
| Posts: | 141 |
| First Name: | Ruth | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Born JW, born-again Catholic (Tiber Swim Team 2008) |
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Posted: Mon Oct 22nd, 2007 05:19 pm |
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Friends:
While traveling this weekend, I was able to listen to Catholic Radio (no station near Ashland, this was near Lexington).
I listened to part of a presentation about Catholicism in the Middle Ages, prior to the Council of Trent. The speaker mentioned that during this time, the faithful would come to Mass but would not go forward to receive the Eucharist. He said that this persisted in spite of efforts by the Church and at least one of the councils to convince the faithful to maintain themselves in a condition where they could receive. Ultimately, it lead to a directive from Rome commanding the faithful to receive at least three times a year (which was later changed to at least once a year).
Apparently the faithful felt "unworthy" and also somehow felt that it was enough for the Priest to receive and for them to do a spiritual communion. Something was said about the architecture of the old cathedrals also.
I've never heard this before. Do you know somewhere where I could get more information about this?
Thanks!!
Ruth
____________________
When you bend down to help someone up, that is the best exercise for your heart. -- Fr. Noe, 2007
http://nanaruthann.blogspot.com
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mg57
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Tolland County, Connecticut USA |
| Posts: | 166 |
| First Name: | mg57 | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Infant Baptised Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Oct 22nd, 2007 10:50 pm |
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Nana -
Perhaps you might like to start with Henri Daniel Rops, - a great Church historian active in the mid 1900's ( up to the 1960's). I emailed Dr. James Hitchcock who warmly recommended Rops.
You may also want to take a look at The multi-volume "A History Of The Church" by Philip Hughes, which first came out, I believe, in the late 1940's.
http://www.amazon.com/Church-Dark-Ages-Phoenix-Press/dp/184212465X
I'm uncertain as to how much of it is devoted to your question, but you might also like to take a look at the following book next time you're in a larger bookstore -
http://www.ignatius.com/ViewProduct.aspx?SID=1&Product_ID=396&AFID=12&
God bless.
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NanaR
Member
| Joined: | Sat Jun 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Kentucky USA |
| Posts: | 141 |
| First Name: | Ruth | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Born JW, born-again Catholic (Tiber Swim Team 2008) |
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Posted: Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 08:22 pm |
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Thanks! I wasn't able to find the particular Rops book you reference in our library system (I'm not quite up to the cost of that one right now). But I found a similar book by the same author which I should be able to get through inter-library loan:
Cathedral and crusade, studies of the medieval church, 1050-1350.
Main Author:
Daniel-Rops, Henri,
Title:
Cathedral and crusade, studies of the medieval church, 1050-1350.
Publisher:
London, Dent; New York, Dutton [1957]
BR270.D312
Status:
Available
It's at St. Catherine College, a two-year college in Kentucky that we have inter-library loan privileges with (I work at a two-year college).
I appreciate being pointed in the right direction. I'm looking forward to the reading!
Ruth
____________________
When you bend down to help someone up, that is the best exercise for your heart. -- Fr. Noe, 2007
http://nanaruthann.blogspot.com
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mg57
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Tolland County, Connecticut USA |
| Posts: | 166 |
| First Name: | mg57 | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Infant Baptised Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 10:06 pm |
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Nana -
Hey, that's great !
I noticed you're in KY, - if you're anywhere near the Trappist Monastery ( near Bardstown (?)), perhaps you can check out their gift shop / bookstore, and / or, if you want to take it further, even ask one of the monks if there's someone who can help you with your subject as related to monastic history. I'm sure they've got quite a library and could make a few suggestions.
God bless !
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CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 4981 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Tue Oct 23rd, 2007 11:13 pm |
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NanaR wrote: Apparently the faithful felt "unworthy" and also somehow felt that it was enough for the Priest to receive and for them to do a spiritual communion.
I can't point you to a particular source, but I can tell you that the feelings were true. The feeling of unworthiness is what led Martin Luther to eventually to teach that we were like a pile of dung covered in snow, and Calvin's doctrine of total depravity.
Of course, this was never the teaching of the Church, but a corruption (that is, heresy) of Church teaching. That's why the Church eventually commanded the reception of the sacraments a minimum number of times a year.
Something was said about the architecture of the old cathedrals also.
What we know as the communion rail was originally a fence separating the sanctuary from the nave. Only ordained ministers, altar servers, seminarians who had received minor orders, and consecrated male assistants (sacristans) were allowed to enter the fence. Women were allowed into the sanctuary only to clean and to be married.
If you watch the wedding scene from The Sound of Music you can see Maria entering the sanctuary while the nuns watch from the other side of the fence.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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