 |
| Author | Post |
|---|
LOVECC
Member
| Joined: | Fri Dec 28th, 2007 |
| Location: | Columbus, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 32 |
| First Name: | Lisa | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Jan 5th, 2008 08:06 pm |
|
During Mass tonight the music director played "The First Noel" as the Deacon was reading the Gospel. This is not the first time she has done this. She has also played "background" music during the Homily in the past. My question is this: Is this allowed? My gut tells me "no". I was extremely distracted and found myself furious!
I must admit, I am not a fan of our church's music program. While I completely acknowledge the importance of music in our liturgy, I understand that it is to be used to glorify God, not to provide entertainment for the congregation. Towards the end of last year she changed the version of the Gloria we were using and everyone was confused. Hardly anyone would sing because they couldn't follow it. Even the Pastor had a hard time following the song. We have since changed back to a more traditional version - Praise God!!!
Also, there are times when they change the "He's, His, Him's" in songs to "God" and "God's" so as not to give God a gender. She does this with the Gloria as well. We sing "Glory to God in the Highest and Peace to GOD's people on earth". I know that God (the Father) is not human and therefore is not necessarily a particular gender, but the last time I checked Jesus instructed us to call God "Our Father" and are to view Him as such. My blood pressure rises as I type this...
Any thoughts to my question above or the changing of the masculine to gender neutral when singing of God?
Frustrated :X,
Lisa
Last edited on Sat Jan 5th, 2008 08:14 pm by LOVECC
|
|
|
David W. Emery
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1714 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Jan 5th, 2008 09:40 pm |
|
You are right, Lisa, background music is not allowed at the proclamation of the gospel. The gospel itself may be sung (chanted), but background music is extraneous to its proclamation and is excluded.
People often remark about how Catholics don’t sing at Mass. If you keep tampering with the traditional (or official!) words and offer dance and entertainment style tunes (with percussion!) instead of genuine liturgical music, what can you expect?
Vatican officials have also roundly criticized the other problems you mention.
David
|
|
|
CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 4981 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Jan 5th, 2008 10:04 pm |
|
| The document which governs music in the United States was just revised by the U. S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. You can find it here: Sing to the Lord: Music in Divine Worship. Edit: (Note that this is not a web page but a PDF file to be downloaded or opened with a plug-in.) Last edited on Sun Jan 6th, 2008 12:24 am by
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
|
|
|
LOVECC
Member
| Joined: | Fri Dec 28th, 2007 |
| Location: | Columbus, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 32 |
| First Name: | Lisa | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Jan 5th, 2008 10:36 pm |
|
David W. Emery wrote: People often remark about how Catholics don’t sing at Mass. If you keep tampering with the traditional (or official!) words and offer dance and entertainment style tunes (with percussion!) instead of genuine liturgical music, what can you expect?
I completely agree, David. Don't get me started on our monthly "Praise" Mass. My youngest son is scared to go because it is too loud. However, most of the parishioners seem to enjoy it. They clap and sing louder than ever. It feels so unlike a Catholic Mass. I bawled thru the entire thing. I kept thinking - "don't you people realize we have Jesus present. Why aren't you this excited at the words of consecration???" At the end of the Mass the entire church (me and my family excluded) clap for the choir/band. It is my understanding that you are not to applaud as they are there to support the worship, not to put on a concert. I now look ahead in the bulletin for when that Mass is scheduled so I can go to a different one.
I remember one time at a Mass, the cantor sang a solo of the song "I Can Only Imagine" right after communion. Don't get me wrong, it is a pretty song, written by a Christian rock band, but I don't think it belongs at Mass. The funny thing is that the song is about seeing Jesus face to face and again I was thinking, we are seeing Jesus - he is up there in the Eucharist.
I am probably too "by the book" on this stuff. However, I was raised in a very traditional, Catholic household and hold to our faith so strongly that I am saddened by "losing" our Catholicity. I am proud to be Catholic and want to worship as God wants be worshipped!
Sorry for my rants!
In Christ Always,
Lisa
|
|
|
CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 4981 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Jan 5th, 2008 11:09 pm |
|
LOVECC wrote: I am probably too "by the book" on this stuff.
The Bishop's instruction I mention above contains the following:
Because these popular hymns are fulfilling a properly liturgical role, it is especially important that they be appropriate to the liturgical action. In accord with an uninterrupted history of nearly five centuries, nothing prevents the use of some congregational hymns coming from other Christian traditions, provided that their texts are in conformity with Catholic teaching and they are appropriate to the Catholic Liturgy.
Personally, I have no problem with using music (including contemporary music) from other faith traditions. My problem comes in when the lyrics represent questionable theology, or when an abundance of the music used within mass does not support Catholic teachings and principles but convey a generic Christian message.
For example, I have heard the song Breathe sung at mass in many church parishes, including my own. It is a beautiful song and conveys a great message, but it is not a Catholic message. One line, in particular, directly contradicts Catholic doctrine:
This is my daily bread, this is my daily bread, your holy word spoken to me."
NO IT ISN'T!!!!! My daily bread is the Precious Body and Precious Blood of my Savior in the Eucharist!
When you ask Catholic kids what "daily bread" in the Our Father refers to, most will probably say scripture. Why? Because they heard it at mass! I consider that frightening.
BTW, I have also sung Breathe at mass (once, for a particular purpose), using the words, "Your Precious Body broken for me." It actually fits the melody better than the original words.
I will accept any kind of music (but I cringe when it's too loud) as long as it supports the liturgy and Catholic teaching. I would rather see a monthly youth mass where young people are singing songs they like than not see them singing at all (or even worse, not see them in church at all), and I have no problem applauding to express encouragement and appreciation. In Europe, it is historically common to applaud a good sermon.
But the music must support their Catholic faith, not undermine it, and if contemporary music from a generically Christian background is going to be used at all, it should only be used occasionally, and it should be examined with a microscope to make sure it does not adversely affect Catholic catechesis. And I do think the matter is serious enough that it should be taken to the pastor and even to the bishop if necessasry.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
|
|
|
Credo Catholic
Member
| Joined: | Sat May 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 1212 |
| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Jan 5th, 2008 11:37 pm |
|
| I agree with Lisa about keeping innapropriate music out of the mass, and I am thankful our parish and our pastor do everything they can to follow the "rubrics" as they're called. However, I would like to see a special time for singing and enjoying other types of music, especially during Christmas. Our parish has vespers and benediction on Sunday afternoons during Lent. It is a spiritually uplifting and moving experience, but it's not the same as a large group of people getting together and sharing carols loudly, maybe not all on key but enjoying being together! Possibly in the fellowship hall or the school gym, not the sanctuary. Do other former protestants miss this too? At my former baptist churches, fifth Sunday nights were devoted to hymn singing. I'm not saying it's better than mass or receiving the Holy Eucharist! But there is something to be said for everyday people singing and enjoying doing so. I guess my question is, because we don't do it at mass, does that mean we can't have other times for that type of thing? Or is it just my parish that doesn't?
|
|
|
CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 4981 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Jan 6th, 2008 12:41 am |
|
Credo Catholic wrote: I guess my question is, because we don't do it at mass, does that mean we can't have other times for that type of thing? Or is it just my parish that doesn't?
You certain can have songfests (or whatever else you want to call it), even in church after mass if the songs are restricted to appropriate (not necessarily liturgical) music. I mean, you wouldn't want to be singing "Jingle Bells" in church at any time, except perhaps if a children's choir is performing Christmas songs outside of mass.
In a parish hall, there's no reason not to have a Christmas party, especially for the children, with lots of Christmas music. Ours is always on the Friday or Saturday evening before Christmas, and it ends a "craft day" where the kids are helped to make gifts for their parents, draw their own Christmas cards, etc. When it is held on Saturday, they attend the vigil mass as well, and we serve hot dogs at the party. Decorated Christmas trees (ornaments, multicolored lights, tinsel, etc.) are not supposed to be present in the worship space of a but are certainly appropriate in the parish hall. Santa always comes to our party, too, and leads the singing of "Silent Night".
We did have an interesting "homily" about a decade ago. After the gospel, the priest left the altar and a singer led "City of God". Then the priest, dressed as John the Baptist, came in singing "Prepare Ye the Way of the Lord". After a minute or so, the choir started "Here Comes Santa Claus" and Santa came in with a sack full of catalogues that he handed out to a few members of the congregation. That led to a "debate" over how we should really be preparing for Christmas, and whether shopping should take precedence over prayer and fasting. It was extremely effective, and people in the parish still talk about it. (When "John" talked about the birth of Jesus, "Santa" pulled out a really cheap nativity set and gave it to a kid we had planted in the front row with instructions to give it back.)
Every member of the congregation was in rapt attention because they didn't know what was going to happen next. They actually paid attention to every word, and many of them still remember that homily a decade later. Someone mentioned it to me this year. (You probably won't be surprised to know I was Santa.) We had well-attended Advent prayer services that year and it was standing room only for our Penance Service as well as for all three of our Christmas masses.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
|
|
|
David W. Emery
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1714 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Jan 6th, 2008 01:00 am |
|
LOVECC wrote:I am probably too "by the book" on this stuff.… Sorry for my rants!
Not at all, Lisa. You have a lot of sympathetic company on this forum. Converts in particular expect what they have been told to be true; they are staking their lives on it as they leave their old ways behind and enter the Catholic Church. Lifelong Catholics should be able to expect the same, don’t you think?
So long as the “book” you mention is the official one (and it is!), there is nothing wrong with your desire. You are simply asking for your rights as a Catholic to be recognized and implemented. Canon law says you have these rights:
Can. 214 Christ’s faithful have the right to worship God according to the provisions of their own rite approved by the lawful Pastors of the Church; they also have the right to follow their own form of spiritual life, provided it is in accord with Church teaching.
If your rights are not being recognized, what are you doing about it? How are you making it realizable and practical?
Marsha: I have no objection to your idea. I have seen such songfests take place. HOWEVER, it always seems that somebody has tampered the traditional words, leaving everyone in a state as described earlier in this thread. The result is that the event is not successful and is not repeated. And because they are not repeated, people are not exposed to it, do not know the songs, and we end up losing the whole tradition. This is why you see nothing done.
Then, if we go back and try to re-establish the tradition with the genuine article, people accuse us of “turning back the clock” and not staying with the times. So they reject it because it’s not the latest craze. Yet to use the latest craze in establishing a new tradition is madness because the music is not suitable. So new music of a suitable type has to be written, performed, popularized and brought into the culture before such a tradition can be re-established. This could take a century or more. Given the present state of American culture, it will probably take a lot more. Care to contribute?
David
|
|
|
Credo Catholic
Member
| Joined: | Sat May 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 1212 |
| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Jan 6th, 2008 02:16 am |
|
| David and Rick, thanks for sharing and I agree with you both. I really do like Rick's idea of the parish Christmas party. I would like to suggest it somehow for next year here, but don't have high hopes that it will be done. It just seems that our parish is good at being solemn and traditional and doing everything the right way at mass, but the opportunities for letting our hair down and having a good time together outside mass are few and far between! And whatever happened to carroling?
|
|
|
LOVECC
Member
| Joined: | Fri Dec 28th, 2007 |
| Location: | Columbus, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 32 |
| First Name: | Lisa | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Jan 6th, 2008 11:45 am |
|
CajunRick wrote: I would rather see a monthly youth mass where young people are singing songs they like than not see them singing at all (or even worse, not see them in church at all)...
Rick,
I can see your point, but at the same time, I think if the only thing bringing our youth to Mass is the singing, then we have bigger issues to worry about. That would mean that they are attending Mass for selfish reasons (because it is fun, entertaining, etc.) and not to worship God which is the reason we go to Mass. They would need to be catechized to understand the reasons we go to Mass. When I was a teenager, I will admit, I was bored. But as I grew in my faith, I learned to love my faith for what it was. If I was "catered" to as a teenager, would I really have searched and studied my faith? I can't say that I would have. I had to better myself, not have the Church go down to my level. Now, I have such an appreciation and love for the Mass and appreciate the beauty of the liturgy that has been prescribed for us.
My husband, a convert to the faith, said that one of the things that drew him to the Church is the reverence he found in the Catholic church. That reverance is being lost, at least in our parish. He brought up a good point by asking "if Jesus were to walk into the church what would your reaction be?" Our Answer: We would fall to the ground and praise Him reverently (I would probably be crying uncontrollably). We would not be yelling, clapping, dancing (the same reactions we would give our favorite musician at a concert). We should worship God uniquely from anyone else. He deserves that! Given that Jesus is physically present in each and every Mass in the appearances of bread and wine, we should treat him the same is if he walked in with 2 legs.
OK, I am done beating a dead horse...
Now I have to gather up the courage to approach my Pastor of my concerns...
With Love,
Lisa
|
|
|
beachmoss
Member
| Joined: | Mon Nov 13th, 2006 |
| Location: | Simpsonville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 270 |
| First Name: | Beth | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Catholic (raised Baptist) |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Jan 6th, 2008 10:00 pm |
|
Marsha,
One thing that still stands out for me from my first parish (Our Lady of Victory at Naval Station Norfolk) was the Christmas midnight mass. We began at 11:30 by singing Christmas carols for a half hour then the mass began at 12:00. It was beautiful! The chapel was so alive with everyone joining in with the carols. It is something I truly miss!
Beth
|
|
|
tedjenczewski
Member
| Joined: | Thu May 10th, 2007 |
| Location: | Richmond, Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 162 |
| First Name: | Ted | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, Presbyterian, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Jan 6th, 2008 11:30 pm |
|
| Hi Lisa, I fully agree with you. The gospel is meant to be "heard" or "listened to". Background music only serves to distract the hearer's attention. The changing of the masculine to "non-gender specific" in the liturigical prayers sounds to me like it borders on the heretical. Perhaps you should speak to the pastor, and if necessary to the bishop. May the peace of God be with you.
____________________
"...the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth." 1Tim 3, 15
|
|
|
Current time is 07:12 am | |
|
|
|
|
|
