| Author | Post |
|---|
deborah
Member
| Joined: | Fri Aug 31st, 2007 |
| Location: | Washington USA |
| Posts: | 6 |
| First Name: | Deborah | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | RCIA |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed May 7th, 2008 01:58 am |
|
This morning, I went to Mass in the small town where I work. I was shocked to see the priest dressed in a white polo shirt with khaki pants. Then he had a rather unusual mass which lasted exactly 16 minutes (that included extra prayers after mass). I also question whether the host may have sugar in it. Needless to say I left feeling quite disappointed and not sure what to do about it. I often stay overnight in this town since it is a 2 hour drive from my house but I don't want to go back there again.
Is there any rule about priest vestments?
|
|
|
David W. Emery
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1715 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed May 7th, 2008 02:19 am |
|
Is there any rule about priest vestments?
Yes, there is. Liturgical law (embodied in the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, or GIRM, as it is called) specifies the different vestments that you are used to seeing.
David
|
|
|
CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 4983 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Online
|
|
Posted: Wed May 7th, 2008 02:41 am |
|
A priest should wear an alb, stole and chasuble (at minimum) when he celebrates mass. Perhaps this was a communion service rather than a mass, and the person presiding was a layman. You say it was a "rather unusual mass" which implies to me that it wasn't a mass but rather a communion service.
Many parishes today use communion services, especially on the priest's day off, or when he might otherwise be unavailable. Sometimes a communion service is used in parishes that share priests, with the priest offering mass on alternate days. This is perfectly acceptable as long as it has the approval of the pastor and/or bishop and the presider is authorized.
I have presided over hundreds of communion services. I always make it completely clear that I am not a priest and that this is not a mass (although skipping from the Prayers of the Faithful to the Our Father should make it obvious). I stand at the ambo and only approach the altar at the Lamb of God, and I also wear an alb. These may not be absolute requirements for a lay person who presides at a communion service, but they are strongly recommended.
16 minutes sounds about right for a weekday communion service if there aren't a lot of people in attendance.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
|
|
|
Credo Catholic
Member
| Joined: | Sat May 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 1212 |
| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed May 7th, 2008 03:18 am |
|
| This is new to me. What is a communion service, how does it differ from mass?
|
|
|
CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 4983 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Online
|
|
Posted: Wed May 7th, 2008 03:34 am |
|
Credo Catholic wrote: This is new to me. What is a communion service, how does it differ from mass?
The Eucharist is not consecrated. When communion is distributed, it was previously consecrated and reserved in the tabernacle.
Communion services are used when priests are not available. The presider may be a deacon or any trained, authorized lay person. It should always be clear that it is not mass. The presider should not sit in the priest's chair or lead prayers from behind the altar (except when the Eucharist is exposed on the altar), and the presider should never dress as a priest. Respectful street clothing or vestments such as an alb and cincture are appropriate, and a deacon should wear an alb and stole.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
|
|
|
deborah
Member
| Joined: | Fri Aug 31st, 2007 |
| Location: | Washington USA |
| Posts: | 6 |
| First Name: | Deborah | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | RCIA |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed May 7th, 2008 01:13 pm |
|
Thanks for all your answers. I am a brand new Catholic (received into the Church on April 27th) and ususally go to the Cathedral where it is quite formal and there are enough priests that one is always scheduled to preside at mass. I bet you are right about this being a communion service. OK, I feel a lot, lot better about this now.
Deborah
|
|
|
catholic
Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 15th, 2007 |
| Location: | Dublin, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 34 |
| First Name: | Paul | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Non-Specific Protestant -> Catholic (Latin Rite) |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 12:54 am |
|
I do this along with four or five other guys at a state prison. The priest isn't free on Sundays, he celebrates Mass at the prison during the week.
The liturgy book we use is called "Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest." It is written for either deacons or laity.
As laity we can't and don't give homilies etc.. I supposed a deacon could. The structure is very similar to the Mass. I am a bit uncomfortable doing it. I deliberately indicate that I am not ordained.
Pray for more vocations to the priesthood.
____________________
"A teacher who is not dogmatic is simply a teacher who is not teaching."
Gilbert K. Chesterton
|
|
|
CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 4983 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Online
|
|
Posted: Thu May 8th, 2008 02:43 am |
|
catholic wrote: As laity we can't and don't give homilies etc.. I supposed a deacon could.
Deacons are permitted by office to give homilies. Lay people with special training may offer reflections on the readings, but they should clearly indicate that it is a personal reflection and not a homily. You can also read a homily prepared by a priest, or write your own and submit it to your priest for approval in advance. Reading a himily given at the Vatican, for example, might be a way to offer a legitimate homily even in the absense of a priest. At weekday services, I usually give a little reflection on the life of the saint who's feast is being celebrated that day, along with a brief summary of the central focus of the readings written by a priest.
The structure is very similar to the Mass. I am a bit uncomfortable doing it. I deliberately indicate that I am not ordained.
In effect, it is a "mass" without a consecration (which I realize is an oxymoron). You celebrate the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of Communion, without the Eucharistic Prayer.
There is no reason to be uncomfortable. You are offering scripture and Eucharist to people who are in dire need, and have no other opportunity. You might well be the vehicle by which their souls are saved.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
|
|
|
Talithacumi
Member
| Joined: | Sat Sep 30th, 2006 |
| Location: | Eastern Ohio, USA |
| Posts: | 248 |
| First Name: | Cheri | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic - Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri May 9th, 2008 02:23 am |
|
Hey, Rick,
While we're on this subject... I sometimes go to a neighboring parish where my brother and his wife are registered. This particular parish is the biggest one in the county as the town is the County Seat. Well, in our Vicariate, as with many nowadays, there is only one priest per parish, with maybe a deacon if they're lucky - even in that parish, which is the biggest in the county. Once in awhile, if Msgr. is really sick or something and can't get another priest on short notice, they will have a lay person do a Communion Service instead of having Mass. I went to one or two of them, and I have to say I felt a little uncomfortable because I wasn't at all sure if it was being done right.
Anyway, on this particular instance - I wasn't there that time - my brother told me that the lay person leading was a woman. He said that a lot of people were rather upset and confused by this. It feels weird enough when it's a man, but... are women allowed to lead such a Communion Service, especially if it's in place of a regularly scheduled Sunday Mass? Just wondering... not too sure of the Liturgical rules on this one... can you set me straight so I know what to think? 
Thanks!
JMJ
- Cheri
____________________
“We do not want a Church that will move with the world; we want a Church that will move the world.”
- G.K. Chesterton
|
|
|
David W. Emery
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1715 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri May 9th, 2008 02:45 am |
|
Cheri, while it’s true that a woman cannot be ordained, we are here speaking of something a layman can do. It is perfectly legitimate for a woman to lead a communion service because she is not attempting to act as a priest. I’ve seen and participated in communion services led by a woman, especially in services given at nursing homes.
David
|
|
|
CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 4983 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Online
|
|
Posted: Fri May 9th, 2008 04:17 am |
|
Since you specifically asked me, let me reinforce David's answer.
Once the question of institution/ordination is put aside, we follow the teachings of Paul that there is neither male nor female.
A lay minister should be trained for the role, and must have permission of the bishop to conduct a communion service in place of a Sunday mass. However, in emergency situations any lay person authorized to distribute the Eucharist can (and should) be prepared to conduct a communion service. I've never had to conduct a communion service at church in place of a Sunday mass, although I've come close when a visiting priest was late to arrive. I came close to having to finish a mass a few weeks ago when our pastor got sick just after the consecration. I would have picked up at the Our Father, distributed the already-consecrated Eucharist, and finished. But he soldiered through although I did distribute communion for him.
Priests do get sick. There should be Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion who are authorized, trained and prepared in every parish. As the shortage of priests gets worse in the next few years, it will be more and more likely that they will be needed.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
|
|
|
Talithacumi
Member
| Joined: | Sat Sep 30th, 2006 |
| Location: | Eastern Ohio, USA |
| Posts: | 248 |
| First Name: | Cheri | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic - Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat May 10th, 2008 09:04 pm |
|
David and Rick,
Thanks for setting me straight on this issue of women lay leaders for a Communion Service. You guys are always a help. Thanks!
JMJ
- Cheri
____________________
“We do not want a Church that will move with the world; we want a Church that will move the world.”
- G.K. Chesterton
|
|
|
RodBod
Member
| Joined: | Fri Feb 8th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 10 |
| First Name: | Cliff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised SDA, Generic Christian, Roman Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun May 11th, 2008 12:06 pm |
|
CajunRick wrote:You are offering scripture and Eucharist to people who are in dire need, and have no other opportunity. You might well be the vehicle by which their souls are saved.
Well, I'm glad you did not put any pressure on us Rick!!! 
Actually, I do have a constant concern that what I do under the name of the Church, including dumb mistakes or what I might forget or never knew, never becomes a stumbling block for a fellow attendee or leads someone astray. Of course, the other side of the coin might be that a person who is led astray that easily may not have been "in" the Church in the first place. I guess what keeps me going is the idea that whatever we helpers do, if we are doing are best and to the best of our knowledge and training, God will understand.
____________________
Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi; miserere nobis.
|
|
|
Current time is 03:48 pm | |
|
|
