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JillD
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Visalia, California USA |
| Posts: | 592 |
| First Name: | Jill | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | heathen, EvFree, Messianic, LC-MS, Catholic 2007 |
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Posted: Fri May 9th, 2008 01:09 am |
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During the prayer of the church, during the few seconds we are given to lift our own intentions to God, a woman prayed quite loudly for an end to the war in Iraq, for our soldiers to come home, for the suffering of the Iraqi people to end.
Is this appropriate, whatever the content?
I was irritated by it and unable to concentrate on the rest of the Mass.
Jill
It seems like lately a lot of stuff going on in the Catholic Church irritates me. I visited my daughter's Anglican Catholic Church and it was so reverent and so high church and so ... catholic! At least in practice. Righteous behavior is encouraged, in the service and outside, and people are encouraged to financially support the church. Why does it seem like the CC is so afraid to offend anyone, to correct bad behavior, to encourage the financial support of the church, etc? We seem so ... wimpy. I'm discouraged........
Last edited on Fri May 9th, 2008 01:14 am by JillD
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"The alternative to obedience is to turn the conversation into a cacophony of Christians making it up as they go along." - Fr. Richard John Neuhaus
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Intercessor
Member
| Joined: | Tue Sep 25th, 2007 |
| Location: | Southcentral, Kentucky USA |
| Posts: | 832 |
| First Name: | Becky | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Southern Baptist; Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Fri May 9th, 2008 01:53 am |
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Hi, Jill,
One of the local parishes (where, once or twice a month I attend weekday Mass) has a priest who reads the Intercessions portion and then pauses to ask, "And for what else shall we pray?" Individuals call out personal requests, much as folks do at a Baptist Wednesday evening prayer meeting. Then the priest resumes. It's probably not supposed to be done, but it's kind of nice in a small weekday Mass.
Also, like you, I am almost always frustrated by the limited (few seconds) time allowed for one's own intentions. Often as I'm nearing the chapel, I tell the Lord in detail what all my intentions are for the upcoming Mass. Then in my few seconds I remind Him that I gave Him my intentions in the car. Not totally satisfying, except that I get everything in, that way. Too often I have kind of "cheated" by silently telling the Lord my own intentions while the intentions for group response are being mentioned. That's not good. I don't want to do that.
I have to be careful not to focus too much on the things I don't like (if they are things I can't control or change). This is probably not the case with you, but with me, when I am finding myself easily irritated by others and by "how things are," it usually means I'm running low on spiritual fuel.
Maybe all you need is a pedicure, a great massage, and a new blouse. Some of my friends swear it cures all manner of "evils" for them. 
There is so much variation in Catholic parishes. I've seen ones like the one you describe. However, I have been fortunate enough to have priests who "boldly proclaim" in homilies and in the confessional. I try to behave because I have every confidence I would be corrected. 
Becky
Last edited on Fri May 9th, 2008 02:13 am by Intercessor
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"Count it all joy, my brethren, when you meet various trials, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness." James 1:2-4 RSV (SCE)
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CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 4954 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Fri May 9th, 2008 03:57 am |
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Like Becky, my intentions are presented in private prayer before mass. That's part of my preparation. All of you are always among my intentions, along with a general intention for all those who have asked me to pray for them. God remembers who I forgot. When the commentator or priest mentions personal intentions, I will usually think of one thing that strikes me as particularly important. Often, it is one of our forum members. Sometimes, it's simply for those who need my prayers.
I've been to masses where people call out intentions. I've been to masses where people write intentions on paper or in a book, and the book is brought up in the entrance procession. I've even been to masses where the prayer intentions are written on slips of paper and burned during mass.
Everything is possible.
As to your second point:
It seems like lately a lot of stuff going on in the Catholic Church irritates me. I visited my daughter's Anglican Catholic Church and it was so reverent and so high church and so ... catholic! At least in practice. Righteous behavior is encouraged, in the service and outside, and people are encouraged to financially support the church. Why does it seem like the CC is so afraid to offend anyone, to correct bad behavior, to encourage the financial support of the church, etc? We seem so ... wimpy. I'm discouraged........
Then why is the Anglican Communion falling apart?
The old houses survived Hurricane Katrina. The new ones fell apart. Why? Maybe the old ones didn't look so good on the outside, but they were built on higher ground, with more solid foundations, elevated above the flood, with ugly electrical outlets four feet above floor level. They had foundations of cypress intead of plywood, and were built to withstand the wind by yielding to it rather than resisting it.
The Catholic Church has a solid foundation, even though it may not be so pretty some of the time. It is built on Jesus Christ, and has two thousand years of stability.
The Anglican Church is built on Henry VIII. It's ultimate weakness is the lack of authority. It began falling apart when it began selling out its doctrine to popular opinion.
Anglican churches may have more reverence. Protestant churches may have better preaching and more scripture study.
I'll stick with the Eucharist. The Catholic Church has my Savior.
Remember that when you go shopping, that new dress always looks better on the mannequin than on you. The mannequin has no cellulite, no globs of extra fat, no body hair, no imperfections. You, on the other hand, have substance. You live and breath.
Would you rather shop at the store with good clothes that fit well at decent prices, or the one with fancy window displays?
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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JillD
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Visalia, California USA |
| Posts: | 592 |
| First Name: | Jill | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | heathen, EvFree, Messianic, LC-MS, Catholic 2007 |
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Posted: Fri May 9th, 2008 05:19 am |
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I guess the reason that this woman was annoying is because no one at my parish ever does what she did. We don't have Masses where people write on paper, or call out intentions, or any of that. Personal intention time is always silent. So, not only was she not following the custom of this parish, she was political. Two strikes. She apparently makes a habit of this and no one has asked her to stop. Or, if they have, she's chosen to ignore them.
And I weary of excuses and "take the long view" reasonings. Why can't Catholics simply do what they say, do what they believe? I think our leadership is weak and undemanding, does not hold the flock to the standard of Scripture and the teaching of the Church. Hearing that all those pro-abort politicians went up and were given the Eucharist during the Pope's visit was extremely discouraging to me.
What I read in books about our faith and what I hear on the radio - good stuff! What I see and experience in practice.... Another story.
One of the references that Dave Armstrong posted on the Anglo Catholic Church has that body making the claim that the Church of England existed long before Henry VIII, but was forced to yield to the Bishop of Rome during the Norman invasion (?). (I could have that part wrong...) That H8's actions restored a church that had existed centuries before. That was a new one to me....
"That the leaders took the lead in Israel, that the people offered themselves willingly, bless the LORD!" Judges 5:2
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"The alternative to obedience is to turn the conversation into a cacophony of Christians making it up as they go along." - Fr. Richard John Neuhaus
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Robert
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 12th, 2007 |
| Location: | Germany |
| Posts: | 65 |
| First Name: | Robert | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | The whole spectrum from black to white, now 100% Catholic! |
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Posted: Fri May 9th, 2008 07:59 am |
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To me it sounds like the lady (mis)used Holy Mass to make a political statement. 
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Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect (1 Peter 3:15)
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Free
Member
| Joined: | Wed Nov 28th, 2007 |
| Location: | Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 98 |
| First Name: | Jane | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Presbyterian, Gnostic, non-demoninational, Catholic |
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Posted: Fri May 9th, 2008 11:00 am |
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When Bede the Venerable wrote the Ecclesiastical History of the English People, a book he finished in 731 A.D., the Church in England was Catholic in every way, including a recognition of and happy submission to the authority of the Pope in Rome. So if the Anglican Church sprang up prior to the Norman Conquest in 1044 A. D., it would have had to have arisen in those 300 years in between Bede's history and the invasion. Is that what the Anglican's claim?
As for disruptive people in the pews, sometimes they are tares among the wheat with divisive intentions, and sometimes they are challenges from God to help us grow in the fruits of the Spirit, such as patience and kindness.
I've been told about a mentally challenged person who attended our church back in the 1980's. Around town we called her the "Afghan Lady" because she wore a crocheted afghan as a shawl, and often wore it up over her hair, too. I've been told that at church she often gave loud, abrupt comments in the middle of homilies, and the priest at that time lovingly and gracefully wove her comment into his homily. One time the woman arrived on roller skates. Our church is "raked" with the back pews higher than the front pews, and she rollerskated down the wide aisle to the front of the church, genuflected on wheels, and then sat. The priest began clapping, and soon the whole congregation joined in. She stood, bowed, sat and was content during the service.
Now, if someone like that had arrived on roller skates at the non-denominational church I used to attend, the ushers would have escorted her out pronto. The ushers in that church were guards for the pastor and bouncers.
Another point: I was warned during RCIA class not to mention EWTN and its wonderful masses to our current priest, because he had a bad opinion of EWTN. In other threads I've described our church, with no crucifix, pottery vessels, no kneeling during consecration, no drops of water in the wine, no washing of the priests hands, and a dozen other things, big and small. We rarely confess our sins as a corporate body. No one told me I could choose a name of a saint when I was confirmed. When I asked about it, I was told that was old-fashioned, and not something we do in our church.
To come from watching the masses on EWTN to experiencing the masses at our church was rough. As you know, I stuck it out for a year, and then when I'd had enough of the homilies having to do with the priest's hard-sell of the Hindu techniques of "Christian" Meditation, I began to attend other churches. I've found one about 10 miles from my house that is located on a gravel road out in the countryside. It has a crucifix, statues of Mary and Joseph, kneeling during consecration and everything else as I think it should be. The church is packed every Sunday, with chairs set up and some people standing. The old lady who cantors (from the loft up behind us) has a wavery elderly voice, not nearly as polished as the cantors at the other church, yet to me it is the voice of an angel!
I'm so grateful to have found this church to attend, and it sounds as if you may have to go seek another church, too.
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David W. Emery
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1697 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Fri May 9th, 2008 12:07 pm |
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It seems like lately a lot of stuff going on in the Catholic Church irritates me. I visited my daughter's Anglican Catholic Church and it was so reverent and so high church and so ... catholic! At least in practice. Righteous behavior is encouraged, in the service and outside, and people are encouraged to financially support the church. Why does it seem like the CC is so afraid to offend anyone, to correct bad behavior, to encourage the financial support of the church, etc? We seem so ... wimpy. I'm discouraged.
It’s easy to clean the outside of the cup, Jill. Both the one and the other are doing certain things wrongly. The one chooses to clean the outside of the cup to make it appear that it is clean inside as well; the other is apparently not interested even in appearances, so the uncleanness shows through more readily. Is either healthy?
Human sin and lack of faith are at fault here. These are present in every religion, present in many hearts. The only remedy is to start with ourselves, rooting out these evils in our own heart, setting an example and praying for the others. Charity begets charity; holiness begets holiness.
David
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