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Ali
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| Joined: | Sat Jan 6th, 2007 |
| Location: | Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 622 |
| First Name: | Ali | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | JW, finally fully Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Feb 20th, 2008 09:24 pm |
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What is the official rule  for using meat products? I was under the assumption that broths were ok. Dh {rolls eyes at him} is not  And now he doesn't want to eat a soup I was planning on making, even though he ate it last year :X
I am {this close} to making him really fast of Friday and not fixing him anything!
Seriously, though, what to do? And can you point out to me where I can find this in some official church document?
I asked him where he wanted to draw the line. My BIL is vegan, so I offered to get some recipes off him for Lent. Dh doesn't think I'm very funny, though. LOL
Thanks,
Ali
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David W. Emery
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1714 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Feb 20th, 2008 11:24 pm |
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Ali, I’ve looked around at a good number of sources, and there is a difference of opinion on meat broth. Some say that if something has a meat taste, it is forbidden. Others reject this as scrupulosity and say that, so long as actual pieces of meat are not included, it is OK. Still others claim that moral theologians have traditionally judged that meat broth is not acceptable on days of abstinance. Finally, there are a few who claim that the law is written so vaguely that one can legally eat meat anyway.
The fact that this particular question is governed, according to canon law, by the national conferences of bishops, led me to look on the USCCB site. While there are documents on abstinence on the site, none addresses this question. This apparently leaves it up to the individual bishop to determine what is acceptable in a given circumstance within his jurisdiction.
Below I am citing the rule given on the Lincoln, NE diocesan website. This diocese is considered by many to be conservative and headed by a conservative bishop.
If meat products are used in foods (such as gelatin), are such foods forbidden on days of abstinence?
No. The Church law about abstinence pertains to that which is commonly called "meat" and to soup or gravy made from meat. Gelatin or other foods which may have meat derivatives in them are not forbidden. The important thing about fast and abstinence rules is not to be scrupulous, but rather to have a strong sense of penance in following the spirit of the law. Particular questions about fast and abstinence laws are best answered by the priest who hears your confession.
I think the last sentence should be your cue as to where to go to be sure you are doing the right thing about broth.
David
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Connie
User on Probation
| Joined: | Fri Jun 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 99 |
| First Name: | Connie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Catholic Convert from Presbyterian, then Episcopalian |
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Posted: Thu Feb 21st, 2008 12:18 am |
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Are faithful Catholics supposed to omit meat for the entirety of Lent or just Fridays of Lent?
It's not hard for me to do because I'm a vegetarian, but my family is not.
Just curious. Sometimes I love to have a BigMac.
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~Connie~
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David W. Emery
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
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| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Feb 21st, 2008 12:46 am |
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Fridays the year around are mandated universally by Canon Law, Connie. In the US, the bishops’ conference has allowed us to choose a work of mercy or something similar if it suits us better. But this is only outside of Lent, and it does not abrogate the general obligation of observing Fridays as penitential. One can, of course, always do more than the law requires. And if one is already abstaining from meat for a reason other than penitence, it is strongly suggested that the Friday penance be something in addition to this.
David
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CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 4981 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Thu Feb 21st, 2008 12:48 am |
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Ali wrote: What is the official rule for using meat products?
Here is the "official" rule from the USCCB:
Abstinence—In the United States, this penitential practice consists of refraining from the consumption of meat. The Latin Church's requirement of abstinence binds Catholics after they have celebrated their fourteenth birthday, and it is practiced on Ash Wednesday, Good Friday, and the Fridays during Lent. Pastors and parents are encouraged to see that children who are not bound by the obligation to fast and abstain are led to appreciate an authentic sense of penance.
It is my understanding that the restriction is on the consumption of the flesh of mammals. Broth and buillion are, in my understanding, acceptable. So is such items as bacon fat, if used for flavoring. In Louisiana, catfish and white beans over rise is a traditional Friday dish, but salt pork or sausage is often used for flavoring in the white beans. It is (again, in my understanding) acceptable to "eat around" the meat pieces.
I remember discovering this a couple of years ago, and frankly I was surprised. I had always thought any product made from meat was unacceptable.
The article where I found this information was in answer to a question about Lenten dietary regulations at Zenit:
The law of abstinence prohibits eating the flesh, marrow and blood products of such animals and birds as constitute flesh meat.
In earlier times the law of abstinence also forbade such foods that originated from such animals, such as milk, butter, cheese, eggs, lard and sauces made from animal fat. This restriction is no longer in force in the Roman rite.
So it appears that only the flesh itself is prohibited. Of course, there is no reason we can't exceed the regulations. For example, I won't order the white beans if I know they are seasoned with pork, but I don't throw them away any more.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Tina in Ashburn
Member
| Joined: | Mon May 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | Ashburn, Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 263 |
| First Name: | Tina | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Roman Catholic, Ukranian Catholic, presently practicing as Roman Latin ... |
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Posted: Thu Feb 21st, 2008 03:13 am |
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I avoid meat broths and flavorings when i'm fasting from meat. Vegetable broth is just as good, and if it isn't... well isn't that what lent is about? Add 'inconvenience" to your lenten fast.
One additional definition for "meat" is anything that crawls on the earth.
Because some questioned eating whale, which is actually a mammal, the added clarification covers what crawls or lives on the ground. So whale, because it lives in the ocean, is acceptable.
People through the ages ask impertinent questions so the Church was forced to make this simplification.
So on Ash Wednesday and Lenten Fridays, no frog legs or snail for you!!!
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Tina
Arlington Diocese
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CajunRick
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 4981 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Thu Feb 21st, 2008 03:38 am |
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Tina in Ashburn wrote: So on Ash Wednesday and Lenten Fridays, no frog legs or snail for you!!!
Kermie would disown me!
Actually, the Zenit article stresses that the flesh of amphibians falls into the category of the animal it most closely resembles, so frogs and alligators would be considered meat.
Kermie is quite safe from me. But I do keep the doors locked when I see people out gigging frogs!
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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