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JMJDevotee
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Posted: Wed Dec 20th, 2006 10:56 pm |
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I am curious about others experiences with Adoration. I generally go on First Friday. I wish my parish offered it more. Lately I have been attending the Holy Hour for Vocations that our Bishop presides over. It is so reverent and holy. I just love it.
My first experience with Adoration was a miracle. I suffer from fibromyalgia and if I get too much stress (my main trigger), I will wind up slouching over from back spasms, leg cramps, arthritis pain, headache, well, you get the picture. One day a good friend from my parish came and picked me up to go. She was going to ask Fr. to annoint me with Holy Oils bc I was in such bad shape.
Before I even walked in the door,I could feel Him. I knew this would be a very different experience. After it began, I could not even look at the Blessed Sacrament, I felt so unworthy, I could not even form the words to pray, silent tears rolled down my cheeks. It is so good to know He knows the prayers of our hearts.  Anyway, within a few moments by body began to tingle, kinda like when your leg falls asleep. I was in so much pain, crying, wanting relief. Slowly, the pain began to receed, I was able to sit up straight, then I could look at the Blessed Sacrament, and give my thanks and praise. I knew He was with me. That night, I had a healing miracle. I still suffer from my illness and symptoms but I learned that my suffering is a blessing. God uses it for others. What a joy!!
So that is my story. What is yours?
Pax Vobiscum
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AVE MARIA, gratia plena, Dominus tecum. Benedicta tu in mulieribus, et benedictus fructus ventris tui, Iesus. Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ora pro nobis peccatoribus, nunc, et in hora mortis nostrae. Amen.
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Wed Dec 20th, 2006 11:28 pm |
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Hello, Devotee. Your initial experience of Adoration was a powerful one. But I am tempted to ask, If you had not had that healing experience, would you still find Adoration worthwhile? Receiving a favor requires no faith. Believing even when there is no “sign” takes a great deal of faith. Perhaps you needed the initial sign to open your eyes, for I can feel the warmth of your love for our sacramental Lord even through your rose-colored words.
Not that I would not be thankful for relief from fibromyalgia. That is terribly painful. But to be with God in simple faith is, the miracle of miracles. I suspect that you have discovered this, for you say, “I learned that my suffering is a blessing. God uses it for others.” This is why I have accepted my own “inability to pray” after the common manner and am happy just to be there with him, as Peter was, trembling, on the mountain: I can offer it to God as a sacrifice of spiritual pain. “Lord, it is good that we are here.”
I’ve been participating in Adoration since it first began in my town in 2001. My own parish has Adoration during the day on Thursdays, when I am working. So I have my regular assigned hour at another parish, where they have a perpetual schedule.
No miracles, just the “miracle” of faith, hope and charity.
David
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JMJDevotee
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Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2006 07:32 am |
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Well, my experience ocurred while I was still in RCIA. I was not in the fullness of the Church and I was still shakiy on my understanding of Real Presence. I believe it was the tool that God used to really open my eyes to the Truth.
I still do go to Adoration, but I can't say I have experienced a repeat of that initial time. When I attend now, I pray, meditate, open my heart, sould and mind to hear what God wants to say to me. I still feel the Presence of Christ and the love, even when I am Holy Hour with 300 others, I still feel as though it is just me and Jesus.  I cannot wait until I get to be Him in Adoration. To me, it is still a miracle, everytime I get to sit with Him.
I chose my "rose colored words" because we are in the Season of Advent. (but the color is listed a violet  ).
Pax Vobiscum
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AVE MARIA, gratia plena, Dominus tecum. Benedicta tu in mulieribus, et benedictus fructus ventris tui, Iesus. Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ora pro nobis peccatoribus, nunc, et in hora mortis nostrae. Amen.
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2006 12:53 pm |
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I was not in the fullness of the Church and I was still shaky on my understanding of Real Presence. I believe it was the tool that God used to really open my eyes to the Truth.
Yes, I think that is what he had in mind. Now, of course, you do not need the sign, and the suffering has its uses, as you have found out. So it was a preliminary attraction and guide, a keepsake.
I chose my "rose colored words" because we are in the Season of Advent (but the color is listed as violet).
OK, makes sense. The luminescence of the computer monitor makes violet appear more rose-colored. You may have noticed the lack of contrast, making for difficult reading. If it were printed on paper, however, it would appear darker, more violet. But now you have me worried whether you will be changing the color of your messages to white for the Christmas season!
David
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brian
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Posted: Sat Dec 23rd, 2006 04:46 am |
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For me countless times i would run into books with either exact information that was extrmely timely, and they would find me. i mean, they would just be on the chair or the book that something in my spirit was telling me to read. i also met a good friend through adoration and i just knew i had to befriend him somehow. and many times i would run into quotes or authors or information that i had just previously been interested in. but mostly, it is just the miracle of an increased discipline to adore and believe in Jesus' presence and sit in silence longer than i ever could before just knowing He is with me. sometimes my heart is so full of joy and i hear great things in my mind, truths or music, and others i feel little "emotionally" but still trust that my visit is good for me and offer my love and prayers.
another question: is it ok to talk about good things that happen to you? do you risk losing the reward or seeking earthly praise? or is it a testimony to the good things God is doing for you? i never know if i should talk about good things that happen or just thank God and avoid trying to gain attention?
i see all kinds of stories of miracles saints and apparitions and they usually encourage me, yet i doubt these saints wanted to be so widely known and respected so much as to make Christ known. but the stories including the one you posted always encourage me.
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Sat Dec 23rd, 2006 01:12 pm |
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Good questions, Brian.
Information is important in the beginning, less so later on. Your own history shows the truth of this. Last spring and summer you were finding these resources everywhere, as it were just sitting around and waiting for you to pick them up. But recent months are a different story: you are utilizing what you have learned and just sitting in silence, pondering in the depths of your soul the impact of the treasures you found earlier. Sometimes these treasures move you, sometimes you find only intellectual occupation. All of this is in the natural order of progression. You are learning to pray in a meditative manner and to grow from the experience of the mysteries revolving in your soul.
The presence of the blessed sacrament is a tremendous help in prayer. We’ve spoken of this privately, and I think you are beginning to understand that this takes place on two levels. First is the level of psychological focus. The physicality of the Eucharist allows even your body to take part in this. The second level is the spiritual power and grace of the Eucharist working in you as you move closer to Christ through prayer. Grace, being a spiritual commodity, is not visible physically or intellectually, and its presence is known only afterwards, by what is accomplished in us. And this is what you are just beginning to experience.
Should one speak to others about his spiritual experiences? Certainly there is no legislation prohibiting it. But is is advisable? Our tradition states that it is almost universally unprofitable. Only in the case of receiving spiritual direction is there any possibility of personal benefit. One recounts what has happened so that the director can discern its authenticity and its proper place in the life of the person under direction.
Is there a risk of “losing the reward or seeking earthly praise?” Very definitely. Why? Because more often than not the motive of telling about one’s spiritual experiences is a secret pride. Pride, as you know, is not a virtue. “Or is it a testimony to the good things God is doing for you?” It can be, but there remains the danger of casting one’s pearls before swine.
The almost universal reticence of the saints is a good example in this regard. The simple virtue of humility is much more valuable than the greatest vision or other revelation. The foundation of the process of canonization is the investigation of a person’s life to ascertain the presence of heroic virtue, not miracles or phenomena. The miracles later required as part of the process have less to do with the saint than with the Church at large, after the manner of the cured leper who shows himself to the priest “as a testimony” to the community (cf. Matthew 8:4 and parallels).
David
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Ruthie
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Posted: Sat Dec 23rd, 2006 06:12 pm |
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brian wrote: For me countless times i would run into books with either exact information that was extrmely timely, and they would find me. i mean, they would just be on the chair or the book that something in my spirit was telling me to read. i also met a good friend through adoration and i just knew i had to befriend him somehow. and many times i would run into quotes or authors or information that i had just previously been interested in. but mostly, it is just the miracle of an increased discipline to adore and believe in Jesus' presence and sit in silence longer than i ever could before just knowing He is with me.sometimes my heart is so full of joy and i hear great things in my mind, truths or music, and others i feel little "emotionally" but still trust that my visit is good for me and offer my love and prayers.
another question: is it ok to talk about good things that happen to you?
David wrote:
Should one speak to others about his spiritual experiences? Certainly there is no legislation prohibiting it. But is is advisable? Our tradition states that it is almost universally unprofitable. Only in the case of receiving spiritual direction is there any possibility of personal benefit. One recounts what has happened so that the director can discern its authenticity and its proper place in the life of the person under direction.
Is there a risk of “losing the reward or seeking earthly praise?” Very definitely. Why? Because more often than not the motive of telling about one’s spiritual experiences is a secret pride. Pride, as you know, is not a virtue. “Or is it a testimony to the good things God is doing for you?” It can be, but there remains the danger of casting one’s pearls before swine.
The almost universal reticence of the saints is a good example in this regard. The simple virtue of humility is much more valuable than the greatest vision or other revelation. The foundation of the process of canonization is the investigation of a person’s life to ascertain the presence of heroic virtue, not miracles or phenomena. The miracles later required as part of the process have less to do with the saint than with the Church at large, after the manner of the cured leper who shows himself to the priest “as a testimony” to the community (cf. Matthew 8:4 and parallels).
Brian,
I am so inspired by what you said of your experiences. So in that light, I would think it would be good to share these experiences with others. Maybe not shouting from the rooftops, but in a setting where the opportunity arises (led by the Holy Spirit). This can encourage and inspire others and bring all to a wonderment of God's graces. This can lead to feeling awe and wonder for God, which is a good thing. A blessing.
David,
I was most disappointed in this part of your reply to Brian. Of course I don't know what Brian related to you privately. But just the little things he mentioned in the above post are wonderful things to share with others. It says "God is wonderful, God cares for his people in even the littles ways, God is caring, God is to be praised and worshipped with reverence and thanks." I don't see boasting in it, or pride. It is a sharing of the things God can do and does do for his beloved creatures. It is inspiring. I'm running out of words to say what I feel about this.
I guess I can see that if the "good thing" that God did was a miraculous and extraordinary revelation, one should proceed with caution and talk it over with a priest first.
But in general, sharing with others the good things God has done for one would be part of letting "your light shine." It brings blessing and grace to others. I've experienced this many times in the past in group Bible studies, prayer groups, and even on this forum. If everyone was silent about the good things God had done for them, there would be opportunities missed to be a blessing to the group, maybe even a stifling of the Holy Spirit. It's part of one's testimony and witnessing to others.
I hope this won't discourage others from sharing on this forum how God works in their lives. Is this just an objective, scholarly answer on your part?
Or do I not understand what you are trying to say?
Ruthie
Last edited on Sat Dec 23rd, 2006 06:15 pm by Ruthie
____________________
Truly I tell you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will never enter it. (NRSV, Luke 18:17)
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brian
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Posted: Sat Dec 23rd, 2006 06:43 pm |
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is it possible, david, that in some cases it is good to speak of such things and in others not to? Because i do agree with you that there is often a secret pride or desire to be seen as important. still, i do find myself encouraged from things i read or hear from others. Jesus does say not to let your right hand know what your left is doing, but He also says to let your light shine befroe men or tha your example may lead others to give. so i think i agree with you, but at the same time, i think if we were able to be humble we should share every good thing that happens because it was God's grace that gave us the gift and He deserves the praise. But I think what i will try to do from here on out, is maybe share things that happend with really close friends who want to know what is going on with me because i enjoy sharing such things with family, and if my spirit seems to be telling me that it is appropriate to tell something i will, but i will not look for opportunities to speak about myself to others when it is not necessary or i am not being inquired of. I will not go looking for approval from men, and i will try to keep some things entirely to myself. But i do think our example is to be out there for others. Is it wrong that i know some things about your prayer practices? Did you tell me so that i would realize prayer was important, or did you tell me because you wanted recognition. probably the former. and is it different when we are discussing things on a setting like this, or where we are honestly seeking perspective. you mention spiritual direction, so is it ok to ask on this forum or a priest or a good friend i trust, if my motivation is to get feedback from someone i trust and not tobrag about something.
anyway, sorry to cause a stir, and i definitely think i want to lean toward what you are saying but maybe not yet totally. Still, what if nobody found out about Padre Pio and his stigmata because he never told anyone. or saints were never commanded to write like Therese or Teresa? do we not benefit from their accounts? or is the difference that they were commanded to write? if we tell of answered prayer or our experience of being transformed through prayer does that not encourage more people to pray?
anyway, i am aware of the secret pride, and i do want to be careful not to give it opportunity to harm me, and this is why i asked the question. i just wonder if the answer is a black and white issue or if it varies and how much.
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Sat Dec 23rd, 2006 11:27 pm |
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You have it right, Brian. Your conclusions are just fine. And I have no difficulty with your resolutions, either.
No, it’s not an absolute black and white issue. As I said, there is no legislation prohibiting telling of your experiences. My only concern was that, as I put it, “it is almost universally unprofitable” for the person himself, and often for others. I’ve listed the dangers, and you have acknowledged them. If you are close enough to God to be receiving the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit, you will know when to speak and when to remain silent. The rest of us will always do better by saying nothing unless forced to do so.
In answer to your questions: You will find that anytime a holy person gives a public account of his spiritual experiences, it is always done under obedience; in other words, he is commanded by his confessor or superior to provide that account. Otherwise, you can be sure, it would never be divulged. In fact, I know of several instances in which a saint dutifully wrote under obedience, then subsequently destroyed what he had written so that others would not see it.
The case of Padre Pio was different. You cannot hide gaping wounds and massive blood loss. People saw him and asked questions. He had no choice, and it was a terrible cross to him to be thus forced to admit the supernatural nature of his condition.
David
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Sat Dec 23rd, 2006 11:52 pm |
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Ruthie: Disappointed or not, you need to know that I am giving the traditional wisdom here. If God is providing supernatural favors of any sort, it is not the duty of the person to or through whom these come to publish them unless there is a way he can do so without calling attention to himself.
Yes, God is to be praised and worshipped. But man is not, and people just do not understand that God can do these things with and through anyone he chooses. So too much will be made of the “miracle worker,” the “healer” or whatever it is that is going on. It is God who works; the human being in the middle is nothing.
There is a fine line between giving testimony to God and tooting one’s own horn. If God is working in someone’s life, others will see it without his pointing it out. And if nobody notices, it matters not. It may be that what is happening is not of God. Or again, blindness is very common.
But in general, sharing with others the good things God has done for one would be part of letting "your light shine." It brings blessing and grace to others.
We have to distinguish between things that can be shared and things that it is better not to try to share. I cannot share a private revelation with you (assuming I had received one) simply because it takes a direct word from God for a person to have an inkling of its significance. Yes, perhaps some exterior description could be made, but the inner meaning could not be adequately conveyed because it takes a special “spiritual sense” to receive and understand these things.
On the other hand, yes, some small natural favors might be shared. And I think this is what you are speaking of. But these are of no great value. Which is why I have (privately) counseled Brian and others to be more concerned with their conformity to the divine will than to “phenomena.” If they are of God, the phenomena will take care of themselves; if they are not, it is better that they not be trumpeted abroad.
Understand this: a couple of years ago, when I was going through a period of massive self-doubt, my confessor insisted that I had to “let my light shine.” (He pronounced the words repeatedly to drive home his point.) He counseled me to continue with this apostolate. Obedience is the reason I am here today. This does not mean that I am any better at providing answers or advice than the next man. It means that God has called me to this work, and like it or not I must respond to that call and do the best I can. My salvation depends on it.
So no, what I have said here is not “just an objective, scholarly answer.” It is the fruit over 40 years of study and experience in spiritual theology. You may have noticed that this is the one area that I give something other than “book” answers. Now you know why. It is the light that God has given me, and I must allow it to shine.
David
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brian
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Posted: Sun Dec 24th, 2006 03:15 am |
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I am starting to wonder how much we are talking about the same types of things. Because I am not saying i receive any revelations or lucutions or sufferings or work signs and miracles. i am mainly talking about things that seem encouraging. words that are helpful. new insights into scripture. areas it seems my attitudes or life are improving through prayer. being excited about God or the real preseence. noticing that i actually made a positive difference in someones life are the bulk of what i am wondering if it is ok to share openly just to encourage your friends.
though i suppose i was curious also about things that seem more "miraculous" as well. but mainly i am thinknig of the daily type stuff or things that seem special to me.
also, what of that miracle in Texas was it that Rick posted that helped the saint get canonized. i mean, i am so glad to have heard that story. what if He never told anyone he was healed of his blindness. yet by him telling his story i am so ncouraged and we have a new saint.
its been an interesting discussion
brian
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Sun Dec 24th, 2006 10:55 am |
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Brian wrote:I am starting to wonder how much we are talking about the same types of things. Because I am not saying I receive any revelations or lucutions or sufferings or work signs and miracles. I am mainly talking about things that seem encouraging. Words that are helpful. New insights into scripture. Areas it seems my attitudes or life are improving through prayer. Being excited about God or the Real Presence. Noticing that I actually made a positive difference in someone’s life. [These] are the bulk of what I am wondering if it is OK to share openly just to encourage your friends.
I distinguished between the two levels and answered concerning each in turn. The “little things” you mention are just as unimportant as the “big things” you were curious about. Nothing matters except the will of God.
I told you that if you cannot contain yourself, there is no prohibition against sharing with your family and friends. But I also mentioned that even if you said nothing, what is genuine will have its effect because the grace of God is unfailing, whether it is received or not. People’s blindness may nullify that grace, but this would happen even if you spoke up. Ultimately, whether you speak or not will make no difference. A few people may be edified, but others will turn away. Many posts in this forum show just how this comes about. People stop their ears.
The miracle you mention has had its effect, but its publishing has nothing to do with that effect. The media are crass. They publicized this event as a “human interest” story, not a miracle. In effect, they acknowledge a curiosity while continuing to deny the existence of God and his influence on human lives. Is this what you want to see? Meanwhile, I doubt if the man who was cured had any intention of saying anything to the public. He was forced into it.
David
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Ruthie
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Posted: Mon Dec 25th, 2006 04:08 pm |
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David,
I've had to think about your reply to me for a few days. I think your thoughtful post deserves a reply.
Even though I was Episcopalian for around 30 years, my Christian faith has Evangelical roots (as an adult) and my faith has always had an Evangelical basis to it. With my comeback to the faith 1-1/2 years ago, the theme of a childlike faith has been very prominent for me. I take great comfort in the fact that Jesus applauds this kind of faith.
That said, I must tell you that I have been deeply impressed wtih the intellectual depth that can be found in Catholicism. But I must also say that often it is a bit much for me, a little over my head.
And so I've had to think hard about your reply (because it is deep and intellectual for me). I must listen to you with great respect and openness (even thought it might be hard for me to "get my mind wrapped around it"), because you have certainly given your all to study the Catholic faith and theology and have much knowledge to give.
All that you say seems like a new take on sharing our spiritual experiences, the things we feel that God has shown us or signs that He has given us. As has been said, for me, hearing these things from others has been inspiring and edifying. The little things. Like Brian's finding just the right book at the appropriate time. It never occurred to me that it might be ill-advised to share something like that.
On the other hand, yes, some small natural favors might be shared. And I think this is what you are speaking of. But these are of no great value. Which is why I have (privately) counseled Brian and others to be more concerned with their conformity to the divine will than to “phenomena.”
Yes, the small natural favors are what I'm speaking of. The value might be small but it might enlighten and inspire a close Christian friend if just for a little while. Though in some cases, the witness of others has had a lifelong edifying influence on me. And they always point to the greatness of God not to the puffing up of the one giving the witness.
I think we have been talking apples and oranges here perhaps.
Understand this: a couple of years ago, when I was going through a period of massive self-doubt, my confessor insisted that I had to “let my light shine.” (He pronounced the words repeatedly to drive home his point.) He counseled me to continue with this apostolate. Obedience is the reason I am here today. This does not mean that I am any better at providing answers or advice than the next man. It means that God has called me to this work, and like it or not I must respond to that call and do the best I can. My salvation depends on it.
What you said here is perhaps an example of the sort of thing I'm talking about. This is a sharing of something personal that God has called you to. I find it so inspiring and uplifting. I see God at work in your life through what you said here. So I appreciate so much your telling of this experience. I don't see it as puffing yourself up at all. It is a marvel of God's working in your life, for his praise and glory.
Nevertheless, all that said, I will take to heart these things that you have said in the entirety of your posts, and in the future I will weigh more carefully what I might say and what I might hear from others along these lines. You answers have been very complete and knowledgable, a sophisticated "meat dish" (way beyond the baby food of evangelicalism) which is what I value so much in the Catholic faith. (Like comparing Max Lucado with Fr. Thomas Dubay or Fr. Benedict Groeschel for example.)
Now I hope I haven't said anything else off the mark. Thanks for your patience and for always giving your very thorough and sound counsel. It is for our benefit that you listened to God through your confessor.
Ruthie
Merry Christmas!
Last edited on Mon Dec 25th, 2006 04:34 pm by Ruthie
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Truly I tell you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will never enter it. (NRSV, Luke 18:17)
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Mon Dec 25th, 2006 07:25 pm |
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Ruthie, I owe you a fuller explanation. I was very uneasy because I knew I was speaking over your head. By no means was I going to settle for a double standard — one thing for beginners, something else for sophisticates. No, everything has to correspond. Everything has to conform to the truth. So I made you gasp and reach and ponder. You are very gracious in what you say, considering how difficult these things are.
Yes, I believe that a childlike faith can be just as solid as an intellectual one. The important thing is the faith, not its sophistication. But there is one absolute requirement, and this does not have an Evangelical basis: It must be the true faith. Without orthodoxy, any faith is deception rather than truth, and one is almost better off without such a faith. I think you understand this because you did come back, and you did it in a way that acknowledges the value of truth without needing more sophistication than you can handle.
All that you say seems like a new take on sharing our spiritual experiences.
Actually, it is not at all new. In fact, it’s biblical. Notice how the following passages (one of them just happens to be today’s gospel) show just how little worth even the biggies among the “signs and wonders” have in relation to the object of our faith, who is God. If one is hung up on anything created, he cannot accept the will of God, let alone come to him in spirit and truth. It is even possible for the devil to lead people astray because they pay attention to the “signs and wonders,” no matter how paltry, that he proposes as “important.” Finally, contrast the actions of the shepherds and of Mary in the passage from Luke.
Jesus therefore said to him, “Unless you see signs and wonders you will not believe.” – John 4:48
The coming of the lawless one by the activity of Satan will be with all power and with pretended signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are to perish, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. Therefore God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe what is false, so that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. – 2 Thessalonians 2:9–12
When the angels went away from them into heaven, the shepherds said to one another, “Let us go over to Bethlehem and see this thing that has happened, which the Lord has made known to us.” And they went with haste, and found Mary and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger. And when they saw it they made known the saying which had been told them concerning this child; and all who heard it wondered at what the shepherds told them. But Mary kept all these things, pondering them in her heart. And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all they had heard and seen, as it had been told them. – Luke 2:15–20
You see the shepherds seeking out the cave where Joseph, Mary and the Child are staying. And they did not hesitate, but “made known the saying which had been told them concerning this child.”
The shepherds are almost always depicted as coming by night and encountering only the holy family. But the gospel says “all who heard it wondered at what the shepherds told them,” so there were more. We don’t know if it was night or day, or whether these people were “just there” for the same reason Mary and Joseph took refuge in the cave or had sensed that “something was up” and followed the shepherds. But it doesn’t matter.
What matters for our purposes is that the shepherds told their story. They related the vision and the angelic message in all candor. But what did Mary do? Seemingly nothing. She “kept all these things, pondering them in her heart.”
Now the shepherds were “nobodies.” They were either peasants or slaves. But something happened that they deemed important, and they saw fit to publish it. This was their office regarding the most important event in the history of creation: the divine incarnation. The truth is best spoken by little children, and here we have the shepherds doing exactly that. They were called; they obeyed, even without knowing why or how important their mission was.
From the first, however, Mary kept her peace. She didn’t tell Joseph anything. He had to find out from an angel what was going on. She didn’t tell Elizabeth; somehow she knew anyway, and we may assume that someone from on high had visited her, too, for she was “filled with the Holy Spirit.”
And here, too, in the cave, Mary says nothing. She just takes it all in. It is not her office to publish anything; she is to bear the Messiah and bring him into the world to accomplish his purpose. Why? She is the one closest to Jesus, and God has hidden her away “in the wilderness” (cf. Revelation 12:6).
The shepherds don’t know Jesus. The see the baby, they tell what they’ve been told, and they go their way. But Mary is the ark of the covenant, and she remains within the tent of testimony, resting in the heart of God. Her prayers, her self immolation rise like a column of smoke by day, a column of fire by night. But who sees this column but God alone?
If the great event of the incarnation was accomplished in secret, this had a reason. Satan knew the promise. But he didn’t know how or when or where or who. Mary’s silence (and Joseph’s, too) protected the Child until the time when he was to be revealed. Even as Satan approached Jesus in the desert, his words show that he was not at all sure that this was the Messiah. And not even Jesus was saying. He had spent 30 years hidden away, and he said nothing now. Only in the course of his public ministry did he begin to let on that he was the Son of God, and this very discreetly, telling only certain people, mostly “nobodies” like the Samaritan woman or “unbelievers” like the scribes and Pharisees. For the rest, he simply spoke his message and, when necessary, healed. He obeyed his Father in everything.
This is why I am able to relate to you why I must obey without divulging any “secrets.” There are no signs and wonders in my life. I am simply, like Mary and Jesus, called to obey. She was the “handmaid of the Lord.” I must come to terms with being less than that without disobeying. If I were to presume to “be somebody,” I would lose my calling through disobedience. God is able to raise of children to Abraham from the stones underfoot.
We will continue to celebrate the progressive manifestation of God incarnate for some days. Let his obedience to the will of the Father be your meditation during this festival.
David
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Darlene
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Posted: Mon Dec 25th, 2006 10:21 pm |
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Dear Brian,
I am going to give you my understanding on this and you can go from there.
Brian said:
another question: is it ok to talk about good things that happen to you? do you risk losing the reward or seeking earthly praise? or is it a testimony to the good things God is doing for you? i never know if i should talk about good things that happen or just thank God and avoid trying to gain attention?
What good things are you speaking of? If it is things that God has done specifically for you that you know would meet someone elses specific need, then your attitude should be to edify their faith. If your motivation is to convince others of how spiritual you are or that you are "special" to God, it might be better to keep it to yourself.
i see all kinds of stories of miracles saints and apparitions and they usually encourage me, yet i doubt these saints wanted to be so widely known and respected so much as to make Christ known. but the stories including the one you posted always encourage me.
I think in the cases of these saints, God arranged a way for others to hear about their faith in spite of their obedience to God. In the case of the one saint whom I have an affection for, St. Theresa the Little Flower, other sisters read her diary after she died. St. Theresa was not looking for the praise of men, but God arranged for her story to be told after her death. Let me give you some scripture that I think applies to this topic, which I would call our Christian witness, that is, giving glory to God by telling of His mighty works and deeds and the miracles and changes He produces in our lives. Or what woman, having ten silver coins, if she loses one coin, does not light a lamp and sweep the house and seek diligently until she finds it? And when she has found it, she calls together her friends and neighbors, saying, "Rejoice with me, for I have found the coin which I had lost." Luke 15: 8 & 9 Jesus does not speak against this woman's actions or words, but rather by the manner in which he is teaching, shows that to tell others of the good things that God has done in your life are to be shared with others, so that they might rejoice with you. There is a verse in Romans 12:15 that says, "Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep." How can we rejoice with a brother or sister if they are silent about what God is doing in their life? To rejoice with them, means that we often will hear a testimony of some way that God has blessed them. Perhaps they have been ill or unemployed or tormented in their spirit, and they have requested prayer. How can we know to rejoice with them if they are silent? 4 months down the road you may find out what God has done for them. Would you not say, why did you not tell me so I could rejoice with you, as the woman who found the lost coin? "Some boast of chariots, and some of horses; but we boast of the name of the Lord our God." Psalm 20:7 Here David is openly praising what God has done for him and his people Israel to the congregation. He wants all to know what the God of Israel can do, and how mighty He is. There is no silent witness here. "Let the lowly brother boast in his exaltation, and the rich in his humiliation, because like the flower of the grass he will pass away." James 1: 9 & 10 Here we see an example of those who have reason to boast in the flesh, being encouraged to boast in what the Lord is doing in their lives to change them into His likeness. And we see an example of the one who has nothing to boast of in the flesh, to also boast in what the Lord is doing in their lives. In both of these cases, it is to edify the body of Christ. Three times I besought the Lord about this, that it should leave me; but he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." I will all the more gladly boast of my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. II Corinthians 12: 8 & 9 Paul is specifically talking about the thorn in his flesh that he received from the Lord. And he publicly boasted of this to the church in Corinth that this might edify them and in so doing bring glory to God. What then, brethren? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation. Let all things be done for edification." I Corinthians 14: 26 Here we see Paul teaching the church how to conduct themselves when they meet together. Each of them has a gift, some way in which they can impart a blessing to their brethren. And we are to do the same to edify each other's faith. "But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's own people, that you may declare the wonderful deeds of Him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light." I Peter 2:9 This verse makes it very evident that we are to be living testimonies of what the grace of God has done and is doing in our lives. We are not to be silent, but with our words as well as our lives, give testimony to the works of God. "As he was now drawing near, at the descent of the Mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen, saying, "Blessed is the king who comes in the name of the Lord! Peace in heaven and glory in the highest.!" And some of the Pharisees in the multitude said to him, "Teacher, rebuke your disciples." He answered, "I tell you, if these were silent, the very stones would cry out." Luke 19: 37 - 40. In this passage, Jesus is making it very clear that he wants those who believe in Him to speak of the wondrous things that God has done and is doing. He wants us to give glory to Him by being walking testimonies of His mighty deeds, of His miracles and all that He is doing in our lives and has done in the lives of His saints. I think that we each need to examine ourselves and ask the Lord to show us if what we have to say will give glory to God and encourage others' faith. We also need to be open to the Holy Spirit which guides us into the truth. Yes, there are times when we should be silent, such as the times when Jesus healed people and specifically told them not to tell anyone. And then there are times when we should tell others, that God might be glorified. Such is the case of the apostles when they were warned not to speak of the mighty works of God, but they said they must obey God rather than man. There are numerous times when we are being used as Gods' vessels and we edify the faith of others by declaring what God is doing in our lives. I think Paul said it well in Colassians 3:17: And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him. The world will always look at Jesus' bride with disdain, no matter what we do. Jesus said, "If the world hates you, know that it hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you." John 15: 18 & 19 Also, in John 17:14, Jesus said, "I have given them thy word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world." So it is inevitable that those who are not of God will mock and scorn, ridicule and malign the wondrous and mighty works of God. And they will do it because of those who bear testimony to Jesus unashamedly and openly. We cannot be concerned with what their reaction will be but rather, have the attitude of the apostles. I hope this has helped you. Darlene
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The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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brian
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Posted: Tue Dec 26th, 2006 03:23 am |
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thanks for the detailed reply. i think that where i am at now, is to try not to say anything until i am more patient or let it come naturally or am asked, or think it really will encourage people.
as far as the secret pride, to me it is like, sometimes if i am doing a good deed, part of me is proud of myself or feels good, but should i stop doing the deed because of this, no i still should do my duty and try my best to quiet my ego. and maybe when part of me wants praise from men, i have to ask, if i really believe this will encourage someone, it is worth possibly being a little confused.
even thinking about my journey to the catholic church a good role was played by the tv show the journey home and the testimonies on this page. with them, came theological truths, but it was good to spiritually bond with the people through their personalities and life stories and see what God really did. So i agree, that if all kept silent all the time, maybe it would not be so good.
brian
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Darlene
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Pocono Mountains, Pennsylvania USA |
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| First Name: | Darlene | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Christian, trusting His love and forgiveness |
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Posted: Tue Dec 26th, 2006 02:17 pm |
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brian wrote: thanks for the detailed reply. i think that where i am at now, is to try not to say anything until i am more patient or let it come naturally or am asked, or think it really will encourage people.
You must do what the Holy Spirit is showing you to do. But key to this is examining yourself, not with intense scrutiny, but rather asking the Holy Spirit's guidance and trusting that He will indeed do His job, as Jesus said He would.
as far as the secret pride, to me it is like, sometimes if i am doing a good deed, part of me is proud of myself or feels good, but should i stop doing the deed because of this, no i still should do my duty and try my best to quiet my ego. and maybe when part of me wants praise from men, i have to ask, if i really believe this will encourage someone, it is worth possibly being a little confused.
You know what Brian, as long as we are in this earthly body, we will be tempted to do wrong. We will be tempted to sin. This is the very struggle which the apostle Paul spoke about. "I can will to do what is right but cannot do it. For I find it a law that when ever I desire to do good, evil lies close at hand." So we see here that we must entrust our total beings, our heart, mind, soul, spirit, all that we are to God. We must be clothed in Him. I like the passage in scripture that tells us how to "drress" for the Lord. And this is a "work" which we must do daily. "Therefore take the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having girded your loins with truthe, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and having shod your feet in the equipment of the gospel of peace; besides all these, taking the shield of faith, with which to quench the falming darts of the evil one. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. Pray at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication. To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints." Ephesians 6: 13 - 18. Don't you think if we did this, we would be ready and prepared for all good works? Easier said than done, I realize. But this should be our aim.
even thinking about my journey to the catholic church a good role was played by the tv show the journey home and the testimonies on this page. with them, came theological truths, but it was good to spiritually bond with the people through their personalities and life stories and see what God really did. So i agree, that if all kept silent all the time, maybe it would not be so good.
And it was the Journey Home Program that sparked my interest and brought me on this beautiful journey toward the Catholic faith. I'm so glad they weren't silent!
brian
God Bless You Brian in your journey.
Darlene
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The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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