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brian
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Posted: Tue Jan 23rd, 2007 01:45 am |
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| Someone told me you can make or bless your own holy water? is this true? is there a special prayer or blessng for it? are we allowed to bless things, or do you need a priest for that? I see that there is a dispenser of holy water in the church, is that for us to fill something with and take it home? Is this recommended?
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CajunRick
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Posted: Tue Jan 23rd, 2007 01:53 am |
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brian wrote: Someone told me you can make or bless your own holy water? is this true?
No.
is there a special prayer or blessng for it? are we allowed to bless things, or do you need a priest for that?
Deacons can bless most things. You and I can't.
I see that there is a dispenser of holy water in the church, is that for us to fill something with and take it home? Is this recommended?
Yes. You can buy a small plastic bottle to hold holy water at any religious supply house. You can use it to bless things at home including yourself, your children, etc. It should not be used for human consumption unless you know it is clean and fresh.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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brian
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Posted: Tue Jan 23rd, 2007 04:51 am |
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"Deacons can bless most things. You and I can't....You can use it to bless things at home including yourself, your children, etc. "
what is the difference in these blessings? what are you saying i can bless and what are you saying i can not? is there a type of blessing i can give myself others or things at home? and if so how is it different than what a priest or deacon does, and what exactly is this blessing? is making the sign of the cross on myself a blessing?
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CajunRick
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Posted: Tue Jan 23rd, 2007 12:42 pm |
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brian wrote: "Deacons can bless most things. You and I can't....You can use it to bless things at home including yourself, your children, etc. "
what is the difference in these blessings? what are you saying i can bless and what are you saying i can not? is there a type of blessing i can give myself others or things at home? and if so how is it different than what a priest or deacon does, and what exactly is this blessing? is making the sign of the cross on myself a blessing?
When a priest or deacon gives a formal blessing, it is a sacramental. When you or I give an informal blessing (like saying God bless you when someone sneezes), it is not a sacramental.
When a priest or deacon blesses an object to dedicate to the service of the Lord, like a rosary, that object becomes a sacramental. You and I can't do that.
When you or I bless someone or something with holy water, we are using a sacramental (the holy water) to convey the blessing. It does not dedicate the person or thing to God's service. For example, if I sprinkle my car with holy water before I trip, I'm asking God to protect it, but not dedicating my car to God's service. The car does not become a sacramental which could never be sold.
Here's how it's expressed in the Catechism:
1669 Sacramentals derive from the baptismal priesthood: every baptized person is called to be a "blessing," and to bless. Hence lay people may preside at certain blessings; the more a blessing concerns ecclesial and sacramental life, the more is its administration reserved to the ordained ministry (bishops, priests, or deacons).
1670 Sacramentals do not confer the grace of the Holy Spirit in the way that the sacraments do, but by the Church's prayer, they prepare us to receive grace and dispose us to cooperate with it. "For well-disposed members of the faithful, the liturgy of the sacraments and sacramentals sanctifies almost every event of their lives with the divine grace which flows from the Paschal mystery of the Passion, Death, and Resurrection of Christ. From this source all sacraments and sacramentals draw their power. There is scarcely any proper use of material things which cannot be thus directed toward the sanctification of men and the praise of God."
Various forms of sacramentals
1671 Among sacramentals blessings (of persons, meals, objects, and places) come first. Every blessing praises God and prays for his gifts. In Christ, Christians are blessed by God the Father "with every spiritual blessing." This is why the Church imparts blessings by invoking the name of Jesus, usually while making the holy sign of the cross of Christ.
1672 Certain blessings have a lasting importance because they consecrate persons to God, or reserve objects and places for liturgical use. Among those blessings which are intended for persons - not to be confused with sacramental ordination - are the blessing of the abbot or abbess of a monastery, the consecration of virgins and widows, the rite of religious profession and the blessing of certain ministries of the Church (readers, acolytes, catechists, etc.). The dedication or blessing of a church or an altar, the blessing of holy oils, vessels, and vestments, bells, etc., can be mentioned as examples of blessings that concern objects. |
The term "sacramental" in English can be a little confusing. We use it as a noun to indicate an item that has been dedicated to the Lord's service, but we also use it as an adjective to indicate a type of blessing that is reserved to a priest or deacon. So it is possible for me as a lay person to use a sacramental (holy water) which has been given a sacramental blessing by a priest to convey a non-sacramental blessing on a person or object. I may also receive a sacramental blessing after receiving a sacrament, and I can convey a sacrament (such as distributing the Eucharist) that has been sacramentally consecrated by a priest but not convey a sacramental blessing.
I know it's confusing, so maybe we should use the term "formal" instead. Anyone can give an informal blessing. Only a priest or deacon can convey a formal blessing, which usually involves making the sign of the cross with an extended hand, using pre-defined words. The priest or deacon has the ability to impart this blessing by virtue of his ordination.
One final example. When a priest celebrates mass or a deacon conducts a communion service, it ends with a blessing: "May almighty God bless you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." He uses his extended hand usually held flat and moves it in the form of a cross without touching himself.
I can also conduct a communion service, and I also end it with a blessing. I say, "May almighty God bless us in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." Rather than extending my hand, I touch my forehead, heart, and shoulders. I'm not imparting a blessing, I'm receiving a blessing. I can request a blessing on myself, on you, and on an object; I cannot impart a blessing by virtue of my ordination.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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brian
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Posted: Tue Jan 23rd, 2007 02:06 pm |
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| hmm. thanks for the answer. now on a practical level, how should i use blessing things, self, or others, in my life? do i need to use holy water? do i make the sign of the cross? is it a prayer just saying i intend that God bless something I am using? how does this practically work? say i am a musician, would it be a good idea for me to bless my instruments, or ask a priest to? could i bless my computer that all the work i do on it be pleasing to God and useful for kingdom purposes? etc.? can i bless a person? when do i make the sign of the cross etc?
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CajunRick
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Posted: Tue Jan 23rd, 2007 04:14 pm |
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brian wrote: hmm. thanks for the answer. now on a practical level, how should i use blessing things, self, or others, in my life? do i need to use holy water? do i make the sign of the cross? is it a prayer just saying i intend that God bless something I am using? how does this practically work? say i am a musician, would it be a good idea for me to bless my instruments, or ask a priest to? could i bless my computer that all the work i do on it be pleasing to God and useful for kingdom purposes? etc.? can i bless a person? when do i make the sign of the cross etc?
When we make the sign of the cross, it is a prayer. We express faith in the Trinity. It is customary to make the sign of the cross to begin and end a prayer session. When we make the sign of the cross with holy water, we are memorializing our baptism. I can bless myself with holy water at any time, and each time is a renewal of my baptism.
When I make the sign of the cross on another person or an object, I use my thumb and trace a small cross on the person's forehead or on the object, following the instructions that I believe were given by Clement of Rome around the end of the first century. I can bless in this manner as part of the Royal Priesthood mentioned by Paul in the New Testament. My blessing is not as effective as one given by an ordained minister (deacon, priest, or bishop) who acts in the place of Christ.
You may bless or ask a priest to bless anything. In our area it is customary to have a blessing of the fleet at the beginning of shrimp season, and a blessing of animals on the feast of St. Francis. If you bless that musical instrument or ask a priest to bless it, what difference will it make to you? Blessings are not magic; the graces imparted by the blessing will benefit you, but only if you accept and use them. If you want to do it, and if it will make using your computer or your musical instruments more meaningful to you, then do it.
There are no specific rules or regulations on stuff like this, just like there's no "right" way to say the rosary. Do what feels right to you.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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mrsbmoo
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Posted: Wed Jan 24th, 2007 02:26 pm |
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To take the car example to its absurd conclusion, does that mean if your car was turned into a sacremental, you would have to bury it some where when it wore out?
How would this apply to a building/altar that was consecrated but then mostly destroyed by earthquake or some other natural disaster. Would it have to be dealt with in some special way?
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Wife of Michael(called Moo) and stay at home mom to 5 daughters between 10 months and 17
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CajunRick
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Posted: Wed Jan 24th, 2007 02:58 pm |
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mrsbmoo wrote: To take the car example to its absurd conclusion, does that mean if your car was turned into a sacremental, you would have to bury it some where when it wore out?
Technically, yes, but that's why a priest would not give it such a blessing. Items such as cars, homes, etc., do not become sacramentals.
How would this apply to a building/altar that was consecrated but then mostly destroyed by earthquake or some other natural disaster. Would it have to be dealt with in some special way?
There is a procedure for "deconsecrating" something, but actually, once it's destroyed, it's consecrated character is lost. This was the case with many churches, schools, and other facilities after Hurricane Katrina and Rita. Once it is repaired and/or replaced, it is re-consecrated and re-dedicated.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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Juan
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Posted: Wed Jan 24th, 2007 03:03 pm |
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Hi Brian,
Someone told me you can make or bless your own holy water? is this true?
There is no official reason why we can't.
St. Martin de Porres was a layman, a brother, he was never a deacon or a priest. Yet he blessed many material objects and liquids which he then used as cures for the sick. Admittedly, St. Martin de Porres had a very special relationship with God.
And many other Saints did the same thing. Many before they became priests. If yo think about it, Nuns, are not ordained ministers. They are laypeople. Many if not most of our female saints were nuns, and they also blessed many objects which later healed others.
So, there is no reason why we can't confer blessing on any material thing.. That is between God and ourselves. We are not forbidden by the Church from praying over water and believing that the prayer will confer blessings on others. However, the Church requires no one to believe that any layman's blessing is sure.
We may confer blessings in anyway we deem appropriate. As a child, whenever my grandmother would give me medicine, she would first pray over it that God's grace would proceed through it and confer the healing it was intended to give. I do the same for my children today. In fact, I prayed over chicken soup and coffee today because everyone's got the flu (I was in Sierra Blanca) and my youngest daughter said, "O now I wish I had asked for coffee."
And the Church does not want you to pass yourself off as a priest if you are not one.
Nor does the Church guarantee that our layman's blessing will actually make water holy or any such thing. The Church teaches and God guarantees that a Priest will make water Holy when he blesses it.
is there a special prayer or blessng for it?
Not that I'm aware of, I pray from the heart.
are we allowed to bless things, or do you need a priest for that?
Yes, we are allowed to bless things. Or at least, we are allowed to pray over them. We are not forbidden by the Church from doing so.
I see that there is a dispenser of holy water in the church, is that for us to fill something with and take it home? Is this recommended?
Yes.
I notice that my message seems to contradict Rick's. I think, if we delve further, we can reconcile the apparent differences.
Sincerely,
Juan
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Juan
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Posted: Wed Jan 24th, 2007 03:19 pm |
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To take the car example to its absurd conclusion, does that mean if your car was turned into a sacremental,
If he were making a sacramental, yes. But that is not what blessing a car means.
you would have to bury it some where when it wore out?
I agree, that is absurd. When a priest blesses a car, he is not making a sacramental. He is essentially warding off evil spirits and praying that those who use this car will be safe from evil influences. It is essentially the same as when one "christens" a boat. Although I believe that ceremony has lost its meaning to most.
Compare these websites:
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_446.html
http://boating.ncf.ca/boatchristening.html
In my opinion, this blessing will not wear off. When you sell the car, you can mention it to the buyers and if they believe in the blessings of Catholic Priests, they will also receive its benefits.
Matthew 9
29 Then he touched their eyes, saying, According to your faith, be it done unto you.
If they don't believe, the blessing will not affect them.
The car itself however, is not a holy car.
How would this apply to a building/altar that was consecrated but then mostly destroyed by earthquake or some other natural disaster. Would it have to be dealt with in some special way?
I believe they have to be reconsecrated. God giveth and God taketh away.
Sincerely,
Juan
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CajunRick
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Posted: Wed Jan 24th, 2007 04:07 pm |
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Juan wrote: I notice that my message seems to contradict Rick's. I think, if we delve further, we can reconcile the apparent differences.
"Holy water" is a sacramental blessed by a priest. It's a specific thing.
You are talking about praying over water to use it for holy things, which is fine, but to call it by the term "holy water" would be misleading at best.
We actually do not disagree, but your suggestion does not cause water to become the sacramental known as "holy water". Since you are not a priest or deacon, the things you bless do not become sacramentals.
In the same way, if I purchase a rosary I can pray over it and use it exclusively in the Lord's service, but that does not make it what is commonly called "blessed".
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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Juan
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Posted: Wed Jan 24th, 2007 07:07 pm |
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"Holy water" is a sacramental blessed by a priest. It's a specific thing.
Agreed.
You are talking about praying over water to use it for holy things, which is fine,
Agreed.
but to call it by the term "holy water" would be misleading at best.
I suppose.
I have met people who bless their own water, bless their own homes, bless their own rosaries and other objects in the absence of a priest. But they consider the priest blessing superior and get them blessed by the priest when available. I don't see anything wrong with this, nor do I know of any Church rule against it. Do you?
In fact, I don't see how the Church could rule against these things since they are essentially prayers.
We actually do not disagree,
I don't think so.
but your suggestion does not cause water to become the sacramental known as "holy water".
You are technically correct. Holy Water is a specific sacramental. However, we don't know and can't prove that water which a particular lay person prays over and blesses does not confer the same or superior blessings than "Holy Water" blessed by a priest.
In fact, there are different "Holy Waters". Holy Water from Lourdes is considered more efficacious than that received in the local churches because of its curative properties.
And of course, God listens to certain people more than others. Job, as far as I know was not a priest. Yet God listened to his prayers before any others. Moses was a Levite but not a Levitical Priest. Yet God listened to his prayers before any others.
Since you are not a priest or deacon, the things you bless do not become sacramentals.
Sacramental means a sign institued by the Church. In that sense, no, I am not a ministerial priest nor a deacon so, I can't bless anything and call it a Sacramental of the Church.
However, I can pray over them, request God's blessing and have faith that God has conferred it. And although I am not a ministerial priest, I am a member of the common order of Priests, to which all the Baptized belong. We are all Priests, Prophets and Kings are we not? And wouldn't it be a totally useless teaching to call us Priests, Prophets and Kings if we could not command the graces of God in some manner?
There is one thing which Catholics need to learn from most Protestants. It is the confidence in their individual prayers being heard by God.
Yes, the communion of Saints is true. But believe me when I tell you that the Church teaches that our individual prayers call down the graces of God and have great effect.
And the Church does not forbid us from blessing anything for personal use.
We are not permitted to bless holy oils for liturgical use, nor holy water for the Church, but we may bless anything we want, within reason.
to bless means to:
give a benediction to; "The dying man blessed his son" confer prosperity or happiness on make the sign of the cross over someone in order to call on God for protection; consecrate consecrate: render holy by means of religious rites
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
Except for the last item, these things are not restricted to ministerial priests.
In the same way, if I purchase a rosary I can pray over it and use it exclusively in the Lord's service, but that does not make it what is commonly called "blessed".
As I was born into a Catholic family, I have always understood that what Catholics commonly call "blessed", is short hand for "blessed by a Priest, Bishop or Pope or some other saintly person" in whom that individual has faith.
However, I believe that rosary which you blessed is blessed. You blessed it. More specifically, God blessed it through your prayer. I also believe that more graces will be received when it is blessed by a priest. I don't know that they may be any greater than the graces He conferred upon it through your prayer.
Sincerely,
Juan
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CajunRick
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Posted: Wed Jan 24th, 2007 10:34 pm |
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Juan wrote: but to call it by the term "holy water" would be misleading at best.
I suppose.
Juan, please remember that we are writing for those who may read this thread weeks or months or even years from now. To use a term that the Church uses for one thing to indicate another, even if it might be technically correct, can be extremely misleading to those who do not understand the fine points of our faith. To equate a blessing given by you or me to one given by a priest, or to call water blessed by you or me by the same name as water blessed by a priest will confuse and mislead seekers, and help to fuel the misunderstanding that a blessing by a lay person (or a Protestant pastor) is equal to a blessing given by an ordained priest or deacon.
So even if words may be technically correct, we have to be careful how we use them so we don't mislead those who do not fully understand our Church and her teachings. And it is part of our Church's teaching that when a priest blesses an object, that blessing is different from a blessing that you or I can give.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
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Darlene
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Posted: Thu Jan 25th, 2007 06:26 pm |
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Well fellas, I enjoyed your banter! "Iron sharpens iron, and so one man sharpens another."
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The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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