 |
| Author | Post |
|---|
3noch
Member
| Joined: | Tue Jun 24th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 3 |
| First Name: | 3noch | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Anabaptist |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Jun 24th, 2008 08:21 pm |
|
I apologize in advance for the broad nature of this request, but hopefully I can get into details as I become familiar with the fundamentals.
What are the basic, important, differentiating things that make Catholicism “Catholicism”?
Feel free to use sophisticated terms, but define them.
Thanx
|
|
|
Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist
| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 2169 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Evangelical (1977): Diverse Protestant Influences / Catholic in 1990 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Jun 24th, 2008 09:43 pm |
|
Welcome to the forum!
Huge question indeed (and a good one). From my own rather large corpus of apologetic materials, I think the best paper to answer this would be the following one:
150 Reasons Why I am a Catholic
Some of the "biggies" are things like:
1) the attitude towards the Church and received Tradition and the God-given authority that they possess, along with the Bible (over against the Protestant "Scripture Alone");
2) sacramentalism (meaning the notion that God can use physical objects to impart His grace);
3) the communion of saints including the Blessed Virgin Mary (God uses His people as well to spread His message and His grace, and death does not end their concern for others);
4) refusal to make an organic separation between faith and works.
If you'd like to talk about more specific stuff, I and others would be delighted to do so, for sure. Just remember, our purpose is not for debate (please, everyone who is new, read the forum guidelines), where Catholic beliefs are relentlessly questioned, but for inquiry (people simply wanting to know what Catholics believe and asking for clarifications when they are still unsure).
A few people lately have not understood this, so I just wanted to make mention of it, for general purposes of making clear our purpose and "methodology," so to speak.
Last edited on Tue Jun 24th, 2008 09:45 pm by Dave Armstrong
____________________
I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
|
|
|
3noch
Member
| Joined: | Tue Jun 24th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 3 |
| First Name: | 3noch | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Anabaptist |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Jun 24th, 2008 10:49 pm |
|
Thank you for your response, Dave. And thank you in advance to others who also choose to respond. I appreciate any time people are willing to give to help me understand Catholicism.
Please forgive me if I am ignorant of the words, usages, and perspectives of Catholicism and if I ask a lot (too many?) questions because of it. Don't feel obligated to answer them all (although I would certainly appreciate it!)
I will use this short list of "biggies" to break down my questions further and start delving into the details...
1) the attitude towards the Church and received Tradition and the God-given authority that they possess, along with the Bible (over against the Protestant "Scripture Alone");
Who or what is "the Church" to Catholicism? What does that mean? What does it not mean? Why does Catholicism see it that way?
What is "Tradition" to Catholicism? Where does it come from? How does Catholicism know it is "Tradition"? How is this "Tradition" related to ancient Jewish tradition?
What is the nature of authority that "Church" and "Tradition" possess according to Catholicism and why does Catholicism believe that?
What is the nature of authority that "the Bible" possesses according to Catholicism and how is that similar or dissimilar to other ideas?
2) sacramentalism (meaning the notion that God can use physical objects to impart His grace);
What is "imparted grace"?
3) the communion of saints including the Blessed Virgin Mary (God uses His people as well to spread His message and His grace, and death does not end their concern for others);
"Communion of saints," seems to mean people dead or alive who spread God's message and grace. Is that correct?
If so, what is God's message and what is his grace according to Catholicism?
4) refusal to make an organic separation between faith and works.
What is "faith" and what is "works" according to Catholicism? How are they understood?
|
|
|
kersca
Member
| Joined: | Fri May 23rd, 2008 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 137 |
| First Name: | Adam | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lutheran-Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Jun 25th, 2008 01:01 pm |
|
Welcome 3noch,
Those were some very valid questions. I am no theologian like Dave, but I will try to field your original question from my "less sophisticated" point of view.
First, we look at Jesus and His ministry as recorded in the Gospels. His ministry begins with his Baptism. Why? Why is Jesus baptism so important. John had preached a baptism of repentance and we believe Christ was sinless so also in no need of repentance. Why? What about the last act on earth? His last act was the commissioniong of the disciples to "go forth". Why? Was the comission of his disciples that important? Why?
You see 3noch, theser are the first things that stand out to me. It seems clear to me that Baptism was central to Jesus ministry. Now, you and I might disagree about the effect of baptism (we say it actuially does what it symbolizes, namely, the washing of sins). However, it is difficult to argue that baptism is not central to the Chritian teaching.
Now, it is good and dandy to note the comissioning of the disciples. All christians do that. However, we must examine that commission within the Context of the gospels, the culture, etc... The disciples were being groomed for important work. They were handpicked by the Messiah himself. Each man chose to "follow him", even Judas although he later turned away. Christ spends his years teaching large groups but also giving these hand-picked men private instruction and even powers (heal and cast out deamons). Now, I understand these acts as Jesus, the King, preparing the disciples for when He leaves to reign as King in Heaven. He is the head. Now, among his disciples Peter is given more print than any other. His place is special. One cannot read the gospels without seeing that Peter is first listed, often addressed, etc...
Now, Judaism started with Abraham. Singly chosen by God, he was the beginning. From there it snowballed. Judaism started with the smallest of seeds and God's personal care. Isreal is the metaphor for the Church. God chose them as a people and sometimes they walked away from Him but he always accepted them back. He guided their destiny throughout history and even used them as the people that would first see Christ and hear his gospel.
So, I see the Catholic Church as a new chosen people. I believe the Church is under the protection and care of the Holy Spirit and will be until the end of time. While Israel at times seemed like she was completely lost God never turned His back on her (permanently). God gave us the disciples who built the Church on the foundation that CHrist had laid. Ghrist, the head, is no longer on the earth but He is certainly the head and leader of His Church. In his absence, he used humans to do His work here on earth.
What is the difference between Catholicism and all the rest? Well, there are some main differences. First, Catholicism is one with the Church that Christ founded and the disciples spread. We see itm as one church and whole throughout time ansd space. The Church, which is made of people exists here on earth but also in Heaven and Purgatory. In this sense, Peter is still a part of the Church although he is with Christ and all the others who have done his will throughout the ages. He is a part of the Church triumphant. Now, while we do not have Christ in the same sense we that the disciples had Christ, he miraculously guides his Church through the Eucharist. As Catholics, we believe that Christ makes huimself present through the actions of His priests in the Eucharist. We believe, as did the earliest of Christians, that Christ is present in the Eucharist (body, blood, soul and divinity). We believe that this miracle is performed every day throughout the world. It is nothing short of spectacular. We believe that Christ gave this power to His disciples when he administered the Last Supper to them. We also believe that the Disciples had the power to impart this gift on others. We believe this because the early Christians believed it.
So, why Catholic? Well, because the Catholic Church was the intention of Christ. Other forms of Christianity worship Christ and that is definitely awesome. There are lessons to be learned from these other communities. However, they have strayed from the original intention. They lack the completeness of the faith. Completeness of unity and often completeness of doctrine as well. Does the Holy Spirit move through the people of their communities? I would say certainly so. However, this division is not a proud moment for Christianity.
Adam
|
|
|
Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist
| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 2169 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Evangelical (1977): Diverse Protestant Influences / Catholic in 1990 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Jun 25th, 2008 06:22 pm |
|
Hi 3noch,
Are you possibly considering becoming a Catholic? How did your interest arise, coming, as you do, from the Anabaptist tradition (for which I have a lot of respect)?
Lots of questions! I'll try to give short answers (and these are again, huge, multi-faceted issues: each one could easily be the subject of a long reply, and often, it is difficult to summarize). I'll also link to some of my papers on the topic, as is my custom (I get teased a lot about it around here!  ).
Thank you for your response, Dave. And thank you in advance to others who also choose to respond. I appreciate any time people are willing to give to help me understand Catholicism.
You're welcome.
Please forgive me if I am ignorant of the words, usages, and perspectives of Catholicism and if I ask a lot (too many?) questions because of it. Don't feel obligated to answer them all (although I would certainly appreciate it!)
My nature as a perfectionist requires me to answer all of 'em! 
I will use this short list of "biggies" to break down my questions further and start delving into the details...
Okay.
1) the attitude towards the Church and received Tradition and the God-given authority that they possess, along with the Bible (over against the Protestant "Scripture Alone");
Who or what is "the Church" to Catholicism? What does that mean? What does it not mean? Why does Catholicism see it that way?
The Church in Catholicism (and pretty much all of historic Christianity before the 16th century) is defined as the historically continuous institution begun by Jesus Christ Himself, and perpetuated by apostolic succession, meaning that the apostles passed on the "deposit of faith" as they received it, to their successors, the bishops. Bishops ordain priests. The tradition is then understood better over time: what is called development of doctrine. See my papers:
The Visible, Hierarchical, Apostolic Church
Biblical Evidence for a Visible (Not Invisible) Church (+ Discussion)
Biblical Evidence For the Sacrament of Holy Orders (Ordination)
The Biblical Evidence for Priests
Apostles Can Become Bishops (Apostolic Succession)
Bishops in the New Testament and the Early Church
Protestant Historian Philip Schaff Confirms Church Fathers' Acceptance of Conciliar Infallibility Based on the Jerusalem Council (Acts 15)
What is "Tradition" to Catholicism?
That "deposit of faith" (including the Bible itself) which we believe has been passed from Jesus to the apostles and onto the Church
Where does it come from?
Jesus and the apsotles (i.e., originally from God).
How does Catholicism know it is "Tradition"?
By a consistent teaching based on past historical precedent. The Church Fathers would argue with non-Catholic heretics and appeal to Scripture first, but then ultimately they would appeal to apostolic succession and the fact of something being held from the beginning by the Church. So Tradition is verified by Scripture (with which it is always consistent) and by consistent history of Christian doctrine..
How is this "Tradition" related to ancient Jewish tradition?
Christianity consistently develops from Jewish Tradition, expanding and further explaining it.
What is the nature of authority that "Church" and "Tradition" possess according to Catholicism and why does Catholicism believe that?
See my papers on the Church above and also these on Tradition:
The Three-Legged Stool of Catholic Christian Authority: a Brief Explanation
Tradition is Not a Dirty Word
Why We Need More Than the Bible (my talk on Catholic Answers Live: 10-10-03. Real Audio file)
The Old Testament, the Ancient Jews, and Sola Scriptura
Fictional Dialogue on Sola Scriptura ("Bible Alone")
Quick Ten-Step Refutation of Sola Scriptura
The Perspicuity (Clearness) of Scripture
What is the nature of authority that "the Bible" possesses according to Catholicism and how is that similar or dissimilar to other ideas?
See my papers:
Material vs. Formal Sufficiency of Scripture
Does the Catholic Church Think it is Superior to the Bible, and its Creator?
2) sacramentalism (meaning the notion that God can use physical objects to impart His grace);
What is "imparted grace"?
Grace given by God to man: the power to act righteously and to be increasingly sanctified.
3) the communion of saints including the Blessed Virgin Mary (God uses His people as well to spread His message and His grace, and death does not end their concern for others);
"Communion of saints," seems to mean people dead or alive who spread God's message and grace. Is that correct?
It is the entire Mystical Body of Christ or the Church, which is not separated by death.
If so, what is God's message and what is his grace according to Catholicism?
Salvation by grace alone through the redeeming death on the cross of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. This salvation and grace through Christ alone is received through the sacraments and the aid of the Church, which is His Body. See also my papers:
The Foolishness of the Commonly Heard Charge That Catholics Supposedly Never Hear the "Gospel" or "About Jesus" at Mass
The Gospel, as Preached by the First Christians
Good News: An Evangelical / Catholic Presentation of the Gospel Message
What is the Gospel?
"Personal Relationship With Jesus": Completely Foreign Notion to Catholics?
4) refusal to make an organic separation between faith and works.
What is "faith" and what is "works" according to Catholicism? How are they understood?
For an introductory treatment of the Catholic approach, see:
A Fictional Dialogue on Justification and Salvation
This topic is so large and multi-faceted that I will leave it at that for now.
Thanks for the questions.
Last edited on Wed Jun 25th, 2008 06:30 pm by Dave Armstrong
____________________
I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
|
|
|
3noch
Member
| Joined: | Tue Jun 24th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 3 |
| First Name: | 3noch | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Anabaptist |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Jun 26th, 2008 06:13 am |
|
This is a lot for me to chew on. Thank you. I think I will be able to figure the basic Catholic perspectives out with all these references to turn to.
Peace and restoration to you and to all creation.
|
|
|
tedjenczewski
Member
| Joined: | Thu May 10th, 2007 |
| Location: | Richmond, Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 345 |
| First Name: | Ted | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, Presbyterian, revert Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Jun 26th, 2008 09:04 pm |
|
| Hi 3noch, and welcome to the forum. In the end the reason many of us confess the catholic faith reduces to this: It is the faith that comes to us from the apostles, the faith that was tought to us by the early fathers and is taught today by the magisterium; and it is here that we receive the real body and blood of Jesus the Christ, the true Bread of Heaven and the cup of eternal salvation, the Bread of life, the medicine of salvation. God bless you. Last edited on Thu Jun 26th, 2008 09:06 pm by tedjenczewski
____________________
"...the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth." 1Tim 3, 15
|
|
|
Current time is 03:11 pm | |
|
|
|
|
|
