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joyfulseraph
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| Joined: | Thu Jun 5th, 2008 |
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| First Name: | Rachel | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Lutheran - 3 years, went to a Lutheran school, Assembly ... |
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Posted: Tue Jul 29th, 2008 10:44 am |
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I wrote this in one of my Journals and I thought I'd share it here to get some possible help/answers/advice etc. It's not complete and it's random topics, so I hope that is alright. I didn't know where else to put this on the forum, so I thought "Questions not covered elsewhere" was good!
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At times I feel like I'm definatley going to be a catholic someday. At other times, I don't feel that way. I feel like it's wrong or I get discouraged. But then there are those things which I still can't let go of...things that seem to be so true. (at times I even see myself defending catholicism more than protestantism!) But also, there are many, many things which are left unanswered for me, that I do not understand. I'm going to write about some of these things, the ones that come to mind at the moment. [some things don't apply directly to catholicism, but just christianity etc. in general]
Can a person live a normal, enjoyable, fullfilling life as a christian/catholic without - religion taking over and/or becoming a nun? (monk, sister, brother) [I've been wondering this because I always feel like I somewhat have to be like a nun/religious sister if I were a catholic or even just deeply into christianity....Also it seems like religion takes over my life at times. NOTE: theres nothing wrong with religious life...I've even had desires before to maybe someday be in religious life...but...well, its hard to explain what I mean in detail! sorry.
Is it okay to pray for every little thing for wanting help? Like to get through several dentist appointments(which I fear/hate)...or is it wrong, selfish and making God a "good luck charm, shower me with blessings" type of thing
I know you say we just ask the saints to pray for us but why is it that so many times the words people say directly mean that they are praying TO them, and not just asking "can you pray for me?"
For example...the Hail Mary prayer...This one I can see as accepting. After all, the words come from scripture! Also, it's simply just asking her to pray for us.
Hail Mary, Full of Grace, The Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of death. Amen.
And this prayer...which isn't a very good example but its the only one I can find at the moment that seems a bit wrong. It's more like praying to a saint than it is asking them to pray for us.
O blessed Joseph, faithful guardian of my Redeemer, Jesus Christ, protector
of thy chaste spouse, the virgin Mother of God, I choose thee this day to
be my special patron and advocate and I firmly resolve to honor thee all
the days of my life. Therefore I humbly beseech thee to receive me as thy
client, to instruct me in every doubt, to comfort me in every affliction,
to obtain for me and for all the knowledge and love of the Heart of Jesus,
and finally to defend and protect me at the hour of my death. Amen
How can the saints watch over and protect us? How can they grant us anything? That is God's job. They pray, they ask. God is the one who decides, he is the one who solely gives.
Most scheduales for churches I've seen for confession time has only been for under an hour! How could someone hear everyone's confessions in just a half hour? Also, how can going to confession just once a year be good enough? I know some do that...because its the minimum. But also, I wonder HOW is even once a month good enough??? I would think once a week would be needed, maybe even twice a week. It's confession!
Okay, the bible is clear about the eucharist! I don't know how people can say it's a symbol from the very words that they read from the bible....this IS my body...this IS my blood...my flesh IS true food...etc. But other than the words on paper, It's hard to believe this kind of. It's hard to exalt bread...Why would God want something such as this? Why would he want us to eat his flesh in the appearence of bread? it seems...odd. disgusting. disturbing. weird....Why??
There's some scripture that's a bit of a stumbling block for me. Kind of. I don't understand it fully. Before(couple months ago) when I was trying to convince myself to stop learning about the catholic church, to go "back to the basics" of "normal" protestant christianity, I underlinded these verses in red in my bible...
From Colosians 2 NIV
8See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.
16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ
20Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21"Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.
Bolded words were most convincing/confusing. So this seems to me like a bunch of verses that can disprove catholic teaching and authority. How is this explained? I know verse 20 is probably refering to the mosaic law, but still.... It's misleading...
Last edited on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 10:50 am by joyfulseraph
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Teach me your way, O LORD; lead me in a straight path because of my oppressors. ~Psalms 27:11
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Tue Jul 29th, 2008 05:20 pm |
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Hi Rachel. You have quite a list here. I’ll do my best to provide you an intelligible answer.
At times I feel like I'm definitely going to be a Catholic someday. At other times, I don't feel that way. I feel like it's wrong or I get discouraged. But then there are those things which I still can't let go of… things that seem to be so true.
This is just normal wrestling with the issues in your life, nothing to be alarmed at. You are young, and the working out of such things is part of your maturation process as much as it is a religious quest.
Can a person live a normal, enjoyable, fullfilling life as a Christian/Catholic without religion taking over and/or becoming a nun?
It depends on the person and God’s call. Some, like me, need to have religion front and center in their lives. I was not called to enter a religious order, however. Eventually I settled on a career, married and did most of the “normal” things people do. But you know what? God kept nagging me, and eventually the course of my life was changed when my wife became seriously ill and I found my life suddenly very lonely. Then he gave me this apostolate of working with people like you who are seeking the truth and wrestling with God.
What I can tell you from my own experience is this: All human beings need God, need a relationship with him. This does not mean that God needs to be the “only thing” in everyone’s life. He did, after all, give the whole of creation over to man’s care (Genesis 2:15), and most human beings find that this is their calling, their life’s work. Each of us has a small, individual role as we cooperate to maintain human society and care for the world we live in. In the same way, as you will discover through reading St. Paul’s many words in scripture about the Church as the spouse and body of Christ, you will realize that our relationship with our Creator must be very much along the same line.
Nevertheless, there are some people who are called to be in a special, closer relationship to God, dedicating their lives to him alone (Matthew 19:10–12). Perhaps you are one of those; there are some indications in your narrative that would lead me to think it possible. The vocation of a contemplative nun, for instance, is to be the spouse of God, binding humanity to him through herself as a “virtual mother” of mankind much as the virgin Mary is portrayed by both scripture and theology (see, for instance, John 19:26–27; Revelation 12:17). Your God-given vocation is something that you will have to discern if you choose to become Catholic.
Is it okay to pray for every little thing for wanting help? Like to get through several dentist appointments (which I fear/hate)...or is it wrong, selfish and making God a "good luck charm, shower me with blessings" type of thing.
I think you already discern that overdependence is not a good thing. It stunts one’s growth by working against the maturation process. If you are going to be an adult, the time to prepare for it is now.
On the other hand, we need to recognize that in our relationship with God we will always remain, in a very real sense, his children. But this is at a higher level. We have the witness of our Lord Jesus Christ, who was very much the child of his heavenly Father, so we should learn from him what this relationship is all about.
The way we integrate these two balancing attributes is in allowing our dependence on God to be simply a part of our lives. Instead of consciously praying for everything we need, we allow our overall attitude and the tenor and works of our lives to do the praying. This is what St. Paul means when he urges us to “pray constantly” (1 Corinthians 5:17), for as we see elsewhere in scripture, for the righteous, “Their ways are always before him, they will not be hid from his eyes” (Sirach 17:15).
How can the saints watch over and protect us?
The same as your guardian angel watches over you and protects you from the evil one (the book of Tobit in the Old Testament is a story about a guardian angel; if your bible doesn’t have it, check an online Catholic bible, such as this one), so the saints do the same as you petition them to do. Your angel is assigned to you by God; the saints you choose for yourself, according to your specific needs and the manifest characteristics of the real live people that the saints are.
How can they grant us anything? That is God's job.
Of course. This is why we speak of intercession. If you look at the prayer you object to, it nowhere uses the word “grant.” Instead, it uses the phrase “obtain for me” — isn’t this what “intercession” is all about?
Nevertheless, there is a sense in which anyone, even a fellow human being on this earth, can “grant” something. What he grants is his attention, time, love and commitment to beseech God on your behalf. He can do this precisely as a creature, because each of these acts — granting of attention, time, love and commitment — is necessary for him to actually do what you desire.
So if, in fact, you do eventually run across the word “grant” in one of these prayers to the saints, you will understand that it is in a different sense from what we expect of God, just as “prayer to the saints” is different from “prayer to God.” The word “prayer” means simply “a request.” It is not necessarily an act of worship. What you request depends on whom you ask and what that person has to offer.
Most schedules for churches I've seen for confession time has only been for under an hour! How could someone hear everyone's confessions in just a half hour?
The problem, of course, is that not “everyone” shows up to confess his sins. The priest sees just a trickle of people… no lines most of the time. This is the sad spiritual state of those who call themselves the People of God. They are emphatically not demonstrating that they realize what you already know intimately without yet being a Catholic: that we do sin. As the bible says, “A righteous man falls seven times, and rises again; but the wicked are overthrown by calamity” (Proverbs 24:16). The righteous man rises again because he confesses his falls — his sins — and receives divine grace in return.
But again we need to be balanced in our understanding. Not all sins are mortal; in fact, most are venial — the “lesser kind” that do not require the use of the sacrament of penance (confession). So it is not usually necessary for a devout Catholic to receive this sacrament on a daily or weekly basis. In fact, the traditional recommendation is for a person to confess his sins (including the venial ones, which even though they do not have to be confessed, can be confessed, and this is the consistent pious recommendation) about once a month.
The bible is clear about the eucharist!… But other than the words on paper, it's hard to believe this, kind of. It's hard to exalt bread…Why would God want something such as this?
Man is an amalgam of a body and a soul, the material and the spiritual. God gives us the Eucharist in material form because we are material beings. He gives us the spiritual action and effects of the Eucharist because we are spiritual beings.
Furthermore, the Catholic religion does not exalt bread. It exalts the body of Christ. Through the consecration in the Mass, what once was bread is bread no more. It continues to look like bread, feel like bread, taste like bread, interact chemically like bread — but it isn’t bread. It is now the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ. This is not a matter of “common sense,” but of faith. So if, as you say, “it seems… odd, disgusting, disturbing, weird,” it is so because you are not yet seeing it with the eyes of faith.
What to do? Pray. Ask God to increase your faith. Not specifically in the transformation of bread, but your faith in Christ, in his power to “be what he will be” (incidentally a possible translation of the ineffable name of God in the bible — Yahweh) and work the miracle not only in the bread but also in your heart.
There's some scripture that's a bit of a stumbling block for me. Kind of. I don't understand it fully. Before (couple months ago) when I was trying to convince myself to stop learning about the Catholic Church, to go "back to the basics" of "normal" Protestant Christianity. I underlined these verses in red in my bible.
You cite Colossians 2:8 (I’m using the RSV-CE):See to it that no one makes a prey of you by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the universe, and not according to Christ.
But this is explained by the following verses:For in him the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily, and you have come to fulness of life in him, who is the head of all rule and authority.
In other words, do not accept mere human doctrines when Christ himself is available to you — the Son of God, in whom “the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily.” Why? Because in him “you have come to fulness of life.” This is not a matter of Protestant versus Catholic teaching, but of Christian versus worldly teaching. “Philosophy” is not Christianity; it is not Catholicism. It is ordinary human knowledge, apart from divine revelation. “Human tradition” and the “elemental spirits of the universe” refer to polytheistic paganism, not to Catholicism.
You go on to verse 16:Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath.
As the following verse shows, this refers to Judaism, the “shadow of what is to come” in Christianity, for “the substance belongs to Christ.”
Then verse 18:Let no one disqualify you, insisting on self-abasement and worship of angels, taking his stand on visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind.
This refers to gnosticism, an ancient heresy that is still with us in several forms — in New Age, in certain elements of Protestantism, even in certain heresies perpetrated by some Catholics who pursue a “higher knowledge,” insisting that true religion consists in signs and portents and secret revelations.
Finally, in verse 20 and following, Paul lumps all these religious failures together as ideas that “have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting rigor of devotion and self-abasement and severity to the body, but they are of no value in checking the indulgence of the flesh.” For the pagans and especially the gnostics, references to “body” and “flesh” are references to evil, for they thought of the material world as allied with the principle of evil — and evil itself as an “equal and opposite” god to the “good gods” whom they sought to appease through their sacrifices.
And even for the Jews, the outward observances could lead them astray, for true religion is, as Jesus taught, in the heart’s obedience, and not merely in the material act of obeisance to the true Lord of heaven and earth. For, as Paul says in Romans 3:20, no one is justified by the works of the Law.
This brings me to the end of your list. I can only hope that something I have been moved to provide in reply is profitable to you.
David
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sewnsew
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| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Tue Jul 29th, 2008 05:35 pm |
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The problem, of course, is that not “everyone” shows up to confess his sins. The priest sees just a trickle of people… no lines most of the time Man- not in the parish where I confess- there is always a line and usually two or three priests. This is going to sound terrible but here goes: the line is what keeps me from going more frequently! I go about every 6 weeks but I am aiming for every 2- my neighbours go every week
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Tue Jul 29th, 2008 05:55 pm |
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Every parish should have that “problem,” Kim! The sacrament of penance, along with the sacrament of the Eucharist, is what has kept me alive through the years. I couldn’t do without it.
David
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joyfulseraph
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| Joined: | Thu Jun 5th, 2008 |
| Location: | USA |
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| First Name: | Rachel | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Lutheran - 3 years, went to a Lutheran school, Assembly ... |
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Posted: Tue Jul 29th, 2008 10:52 pm |
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David, Thanks!! Your reply has been very helpful.  Im glad you were able to explain things, especially the verses from Colossians!
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Teach me your way, O LORD; lead me in a straight path because of my oppressors. ~Psalms 27:11
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