| Author | Post |
|---|
BettyBoopToo
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Camas/Washougal, Washington USA |
| Posts: | 538 |
| First Name: | Betty | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Fist Baptist/Calvary Babtist/Secular Confusion/ Roman Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Apr 6th, 2008 11:41 pm |
|
Hello CH network friends 
I'm in the midst of a conversation and helping a christian sister in pain & Chronic Illness with her time & struggle with spiritual dryness & Aridity.
She's not a Catholic, so using references to catholic saints will not really help her much, but I would like to properly explain it to her, as to help her discouragement.
I've read about it, talked with others about it and experienced a time of it myself this past winter, but I'm still having some trouble trying to find the best way to explain it to this kind lady in a ways she will understand with her own christian background.
I was able to grow and continue on as I had an already establised desciplined schedule of prayer, frequent reception of the sacraments (especailly reconcilliation & Eucharist) and was also very blessed to receive some spiritual direction from a very kind priest that seemed to have internal knowledge of myself and my life in such a way it felt like Our Lord himself was speaking through him.
I would appreciate any advice, simple explanation or even a link for an explanation that I could use to help her. I've already done searches at new advent, Catholic answers This Rock mag, and here, but still did not really come up with what I was seeking.
I thank you all for your time
God Bless
Betty
____________________
Patience
"Whenever anything disagreeable or displeasing happens to you, remember Christ crucified and be silent."
St. John of the Cross
|
|
|
David W. Emery
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1791 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Apr 7th, 2008 01:34 am |
|
Betty, it’s good to see you back among us.
Here are a couple of short, easy-to-understand essays by Mother Angelica that you might find suitable for your friend. The first one is specifically on dryness or aridity in prayer, while the second is on pain and suffering.
Dryness
Suffering
If you need more, or something different, let us know.
David
|
|
|
BettyBoopToo
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Camas/Washougal, Washington USA |
| Posts: | 538 |
| First Name: | Betty | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Fist Baptist/Calvary Babtist/Secular Confusion/ Roman Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Apr 7th, 2008 09:57 pm |
|
David!
Thank you so much for your help, I think these will help me to try and explain or help her deal with her situation in a positive way.
It's been a long winter and I'm finally coming up for air. Hope to talk with you soon
Gods Peace
Betty
____________________
Patience
"Whenever anything disagreeable or displeasing happens to you, remember Christ crucified and be silent."
St. John of the Cross
|
|
|
Didi
Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 3rd, 2008 |
| Location: | Oregon USA |
| Posts: | 168 |
| First Name: | Didi | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Catholic; almost left; Now an On-Fire Catholic! |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Apr 7th, 2008 10:54 pm |
|
I have gone through some real periods of dryness as well. One thing my priest told me has really helped.
He said that God appreciates our prayers so much when we pray in spite of how it makes us feel. It's that decision to love. It's the faithfullness that God appreciates, just like Job's faithfullness. We are praying out of love and trust in God, whether we "feel" it or not, and not because of anything we get out of it.
I hope this helps your friend.
|
|
|
BettyBoopToo
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Camas/Washougal, Washington USA |
| Posts: | 538 |
| First Name: | Betty | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Fist Baptist/Calvary Babtist/Secular Confusion/ Roman Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 8th, 2008 06:01 am |
|
Didi
Thank you so much!
I really appreciate your helpful comment and will add it to my response.
I hope & pray that all is well with you and it's really a pleasure to meet you.
God Bless
Betty
____________________
Patience
"Whenever anything disagreeable or displeasing happens to you, remember Christ crucified and be silent."
St. John of the Cross
|
|
|
Didi
Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 3rd, 2008 |
| Location: | Oregon USA |
| Posts: | 168 |
| First Name: | Didi | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Catholic; almost left; Now an On-Fire Catholic! |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Apr 9th, 2008 10:46 pm |
|
I just ran across this today and thought it might also be helpful. It is from The Three Conversions in the Spiritual Life by Fr. Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange. O.P.
The Three Conversions:
1. The Life of Grace -- becoming disciples, we are attracted by the beauty of Jesus' teaching
2. The Illuminative Way -- understanding and entering the mystery of the cross
3. The Unitive Way -- a profound conviction of this mystery of the cross and living it
The Second Conversion, the Illuminative Way, is when we begin to experience dryness or the dark night of the soul. Here are 3 signs that mark this second conversion stage:
1. The soul finds no pleasure or consolation in the things of God or of anything created.
2. The memory is centered upon God with a painful care and solicitude thinking that it is not serving God but backsliding because it finds itself without sweetness in the things of God.
3. The soul can no longer meditate or reflect in its sense of the imagination. God now begins to communicate Himself to it by means of reflections and contemplation.
He also says during this 2nd stage: "Communal prayer, instead of being contemplative, becomes mechanical; instead of prayer supporting the soul, the soul has to support and endure prayer."
I share this because it helps me when I am going through a dry and difficult stage to know that this is actually progression in the spiritual life, not backsliding as we might think. We often pass from one stage to another frequently, but hopefully continually move toward the third stage throughout our lives.
|
|
|
David W. Emery
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1791 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 12:42 pm |
|
Didi wrote:I share this because it helps me when I am going through a dry and difficult stage to know that this is actually progression in the spiritual life, not backsliding as we might think. We often pass from one stage to another frequently, but hopefully continually move toward the third stage throughout our lives.
I wish it were this simple. Through a misunderstanding of the “dark night,” we can deceive ourselves into thinking that our backsliding is actually forward progress, and that the dryness and aversion to prayer that we are experiencing is really a virtue. We have to face the fact that, for most of us, most of the time, our faults are the primary cause of dryness and desolation; it has little to do with the grace of God beyond the fact of being a symptom of how far we are from him.
The only real remedy for aridity is to continue praying and working on our faults because it is quite true that, regardless of which kind of aridity we are experiencing (grace or backsliding), “instead of prayer supporting the soul, the soul has to support and endure prayer.” In other words, it is not a question of God lifting us up, but of our own inadequacy and failure. Prayer must go on. To lose the inner drive toward God through contrary feelings is to lose God. Therefore, we have to reach deeper into the depths of our soul and put forth sufficient effort to overcome what stands between us and our Lord.
David
|
|
|
Annie
Banned
| Joined: | Wed Feb 14th, 2007 |
| Location: | Columbus, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 734 |
| First Name: | Annie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nothing, Quaker, Mennonite, Presbyterian, Methodist, Anglican, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 02:08 pm |
|
What David says is true. Very few people even approach the unitive way, usually only cloistered contemplatives of long experience. My dryness is due to acedia, I'm sure. Your friend who is experiencing dryness is probably experiencing it because of the pain and suffering itself, which affects our minds and spirits. Think of the parable of the sower and the seeds. It still is nothing to worry about in itself but is a sign to maybe try another prayer method until we break through. It would be good if your friend had access to some equivalent of the Anointing of the Sick.
____________________
Annie
Ora et labora
|
|
|
Didi
Member
| Joined: | Mon Mar 3rd, 2008 |
| Location: | Oregon USA |
| Posts: | 168 |
| First Name: | Didi | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Catholic; almost left; Now an On-Fire Catholic! |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 06:59 pm |
|
David W. Emery wrote: I wish it were this simple. Through a misunderstanding of the “dark night,” we can deceive ourselves into thinking that our backsliding is actually forward progress, and that the dryness and aversion to prayer that we are experiencing is really a virtue. We have to face the fact that, for most of us, most of the time, our faults are the primary cause of dryness and desolation; it has little to do with the grace of God beyond the fact of being a symptom of how far we are from him.
Yes, I do agree with this as does the author (it's hard to put the whole book with the entire message on!). The point I was trying to make is that our spiritual enemy will often try to deceive us during these dry times -- that prayer isn't worth pursuing, that we're not worthy to work for God's Kingdom, that we are being hypocrites, etc. (this is the feeling of backsliding, not necessarily that we are backsliding). It is the persistence in prayer and remaining faithful to God despite how we "feel" that can lead us into a deeper relationship with Him.
Just as with our spouses sometimes we have to "choose" to love them -- that is what real love is -- a choice, a decision, a commitment -- not a feeling. When we persist in our marital relationship, it becomes stronger. When we persist in our relationship with the Lord, it becomes stronger.
|
|
|
Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist
| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 1414 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Evangelical "Jesus Freak" (Arminian) / "Lewisian Schaefferite" / Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 07:13 pm |
|
Faith and the will, hope and love (coupled with the right use of reason) must always be primary in following God. If we put feelings and experience first we'll go astray (in any number of ways). We must incorporate those, too, in their place, but not as the primary criterion we have for how "spiritual" we are or how fervently we are following Jesus.
I think this may be one of the single most difficult things we all have to learn in the spiritual life. We have to understand this even before we grasp the great truth of redemptive suffering, and rejoicing in suffering. It's about as counter-intuitive to human nature as it gets! It requires seeking God and receiving His grace every step of the way.
Last edited on Thu Apr 10th, 2008 07:16 pm by Dave Armstrong
____________________
I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 1900+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
|
|
|
David W. Emery
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1791 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Apr 11th, 2008 03:51 am |
|
Annie, Didi, Dave, thank you. It is so easy for someone unfamiliar with the Catholic spiritual tradition to pull an unintended sense out of advanced concepts that typically require decades of formation and experience to even begin to fathom.
It is the persistence in prayer and remaining faithful to God despite how we "feel" that can lead us into a deeper relationship with Him.
Faith and the will, hope and love (coupled with the right use of reason) must always be primary in following God. If we put feelings and experience first we'll go astray (in any number of ways).
This is the key to true virtue and openness to salvation. Faith is not an emotion, but an act of the intellect. Love is not an emotion, but an act of the will. We must be strict realists, both about ourselves and about our lives. If we are to love “in deed and in truth” (cf. 1 John 3:18), we must not let ourselves be misled hither and yon by attractions and desires, which pay no heed to reality, for God is himself the reality we seek. As the bible says, “pray to the Most High that he may direct your way in truth” (Sirach 37:15). And again, from Psalm 145:18: “The Lord is near to all who call upon him, to all who call upon him in truth.”
David
|
|
|
NorthStar
Member
| Joined: | Sat Mar 15th, 2008 |
| Location: | Wisconsin USA |
| Posts: | 20 |
| First Name: | Chuck | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Roman Catholic, Evangelical, Orthodox |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Apr 11th, 2008 04:17 pm |
|
St. Theophan the Recluse said that when we pray in times of dryness, THAT is when our prayers are most beneficial. I suppose it's because we are struggling against Satan harder and so God sees our hearts and we draw a little closer to God even when it doesn't feel like it.
Don't know if that helps at, as I'm not sure it would have helped me in when I was really ill, but you never know!
|
|
|
BettyBoopToo
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Camas/Washougal, Washington USA |
| Posts: | 538 |
| First Name: | Betty | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Fist Baptist/Calvary Babtist/Secular Confusion/ Roman Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 01:22 am |
|
Thank you very much everyone!
I really appreciate everyones comments and ideas you've all shared with me in this thread.
You've all added to my discuss with this nice lady and given myself somemore thoughts and ideas to comtemplate.
God Bless you all and keep you in his loving care
Betty
____________________
Patience
"Whenever anything disagreeable or displeasing happens to you, remember Christ crucified and be silent."
St. John of the Cross
|
|
|
Current time is 03:19 pm | |
|
|
