| Author | Post |
|---|
Lee
Member
| Joined: | Fri May 18th, 2007 |
| Location: | Birmingham, Alabama USA |
| Posts: | 65 |
| First Name: | Lee | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Charismatic-nondenom.-Presbyterian-Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Fri Sep 21st, 2007 06:31 pm |
|
I hate asking this question, because the whole subject (about spirits) really irritates me. But I need an authoritative reference for why it is wrong for somebody to be able to perceive that the spirit of a person who has died is present in the room. My friend is arguing that people have visions of Mary, so therefore we can believe in and sense the spirit of a loved one roaming about our house.
Lee
|
|
|
Esther
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Kansas City, Kansas USA |
| Posts: | 148 |
| First Name: | Esther | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Southern Baptist to Roman Catholic 11/26/06 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Sep 26th, 2007 09:43 am |
|
Lee,
I don't have anything authoritive. But I think there is a huge difference between "seeing dead people" and communion of Saints. I wouldn't consider the Transfiguration a paranormal experience. Mary's apparitions have always been to communicate a message about God. And 'spirits' of people who have died, what is their purpose? I know this isn't what you are looking for, but the Bible clearly does talk about divination and the Church has approved some of the apparitions. So obviously there is a difference. I also don't think it is that hard to determine the difference either.
Hope things are going well with your friend.
Esther
|
|
|
Lee
Member
| Joined: | Fri May 18th, 2007 |
| Location: | Birmingham, Alabama USA |
| Posts: | 65 |
| First Name: | Lee | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Charismatic-nondenom.-Presbyterian-Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Wed Sep 26th, 2007 12:59 pm |
|
Thank you, Esther,
I got a lot of good response in my post below this one, "Christians who . . . ." I will post my answer to my friend right now.
Lee
|
|
|
BettyBoopToo
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Camas/Washougal, Washington USA |
| Posts: | 538 |
| First Name: | Betty | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Fist Baptist/Calvary Babtist/Secular Confusion/ Roman Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Sep 27th, 2007 03:28 am |
|
Lee wrote: I hate asking this question, because the whole subject (about spirits) really irritates me. But I need an authoritative reference for why it is wrong for somebody to be able to perceive that the spirit of a person who has died is present in the room. My friend is arguing that people have visions of Mary, so therefore we can believe in and sense the spirit of a loved one roaming about our house.
Lee
Lee
Here is a web-site that list's and explains Marian Apparitions Deamed Worthy of Belief that have been throughly investigated by the church. It also has some warnings of others that are not approved and yet sometimes still quite popular. The truth is, There are only a few that are approved by the church. I just thought you may want to read about the few, it's not very long. http://www.fisheaters.com/apparitions.html
At one time a couple of years ago, I was wondering about some of this stuff and went on a discovery search to help me to understand the how's, what's and why's of the Apparitions and some of the visions of Saints. I had at one time the list of criteria that the church studies these types of instances, I'll try and search for it again.
I also read a book by Bob & Penny Lord called Visionaries, Mystics & Saints that was very informative as to the Charictor of these peoples that have had such experiences. The one point about them that sticks close in my mind is; None of them ever asked for the spiritual experiences they had, and some of them even asked to have this revealed to some one different than them. Another quality these individuals have is that they are all extremely Humble and Holy People that never even dreamed of something like this happening to them either. Many or most were persecuted for following the instructions they were given, and still others were threatened to recant their experiences with physical threats and of being jailed for insisting on following the Lord or Our Ladies instructions that were given by God.
This is an interesting topic, but It is one that I truely believe that there is a very fine line to what we should except. I actually was very impressed and thankful when I found out the very serious scrutiny that the church puts these apparitions to the test before she does except them. I think you can find the instructions for the church's approval on the Vatican web-site. It's very, very long and pain staking. Holy Mother Church does not approve of any of these visions or messages with out an investigation that I have found to be quite comforting to know about. For my own personal belief and also for discussions as you are having with your friend.
God Bless, I hope the site can be of assistance for you
Betty
____________________
Patience
"Whenever anything disagreeable or displeasing happens to you, remember Christ crucified and be silent."
St. John of the Cross
|
|
|
mrsbmoo
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 267 |
| First Name: | Becky | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | former Methodist. RCA, Presbyterian, Holiness, Wesleyan... Catholic as of June ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Oct 15th, 2007 11:38 pm |
|
Are we talking about Apparations of Saints who are giving messages to the living or are we talking about someone see a ghost? That is apples and oranges. I don't think your friend can say they are the same thing.
I would think seeing a ghost or sensing some paranormal presence would be very different than getting messages from spirits. How can you be prohibited from seeing a ghost in a completely passive experience? If your friend senses something, it might be his imagination but if it was not, it wouldn't be a willful summoning and attempt at communication with the dead. Isn't that is what is prohibited? The daughter of my friend refuses to sleep over at my house because she claims it is full of spirits. Personally I think she is full of it but me being unable to feel it, doesn't prove it is not there. After all, I live next to an electrical substation and have some wierd magnetic/electrical fields in my house but I have never felt them. With the right tool, they can be measured, so my lack of perception doesn't prove anything. My personal, purely secular theory is that most of what we usually perceive as hauntings are energy impressions of past events not true spirits.
____________________
Becky
Wife of Michael(called Moo) and stay at home mom to 5 daughters between 7 months and 16
|
|
|
Current time is 02:46 pm | |
|
|
