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brian
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 720 |
| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
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Posted: Wed Oct 18th, 2006 03:03 am |
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| I understand that even in the catholic church there are examples of counterfeit miracles or apparitions. I was wondering how to deal with the idea of miracles in other religions. healings, tongues, other phenomena. Is this evidence of God and that He gives graces to all people seeking Him, or is it deception and demonic when people se miraculous things happen apart from the church? Or is it sometimes one and sometimes the other? How do i know when interesting things happen in my life where it is coming from? I am assuming that it is from God if I am seking Him and trying to prayerfully consider events that happen. Like if i pray form someone and they seem to get what i was praying for i would think it is pretty obvious that this was God at work.
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mrsbmoo
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 267 |
| First Name: | Becky | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | former Methodist. RCA, Presbyterian, Holiness, Wesleyan... Catholic as of June ... |
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Posted: Wed Oct 18th, 2006 06:12 pm |
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I answer this working under the assumption that the hypothetical miracles are true miracles in the sense of not being fraudulent.
I was always taught as a protestant that any display of supernatural power not within the Protestant church was the work of the devil. Yet I really began to question this when I saw people arguing that the existance of fossils was the work of the devil to discredit creationism. I think it would be fair and reasonable to say that some miracles could be satanic in origin because certainly they could give evidence for a religion that conflicts with the truth. Yet if the Bible says, "seek and ye shall find" and we are taught that a non-Christian truly seeking to know the true God could possibly be saved because he was doing all he knew to do, wouldn't it make sense that God might make some display of supernatural power (miracle) to those of another religion because in his omniscience, he knew that eventually it would lead someone to know him more fully?
The other explanation I can think of is that perhaps some miracles in other religions can be explained by natural science we just don't understand yet. Think of how mysterious and supernatural radiation must have seemed when we had no means to measure, explain or understand it. You couldn't sense it while exposed but would have mysterious illnesses and burns later. Sounds pretty satanic on the surface to me, yet can be clearly understood now that we have the knowledge and tools to do so. I have never had a good explanation for how sacrementals change from the ordinary materials they started out as. I have wondered if like radiation, if we had the right tool, we could measure the supernatural power infused in them. Too bad we can't use that theoretical tool to evaluate miracles!
Becky
____________________
Becky
Wife of Michael(called Moo) and stay at home mom to 5 daughters between 7 months and 16
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David W. Emery
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1715 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Oct 19th, 2006 12:52 am |
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I was wondering how to deal with the idea of miracles in other religions — healings, tongues, other phenomena. Is this evidence of God and that He gives graces to all people seeking Him, or is it deception and demonic when people see miraculous things happen apart from the Church?
It could be either, depending on whether the sign was authentically from God or was spurious, wrought either by the devil or by man’s own machinations. We Catholics do not reject the idea that God can work among non-Catholics and non-Christians. We do, however, subject any claims of miracles, apparitions or other supposedly supernatural phenomena to rigorous testing to be sure of what we are dealing with. This is equally true for those incidents which occur within the heart of the Church. Such an approach is recommended by scripture: “Do not quench the Spirit, do not despise prophesying, but test everything; hold fast what is good, abstain from every form of evil” (1 Thessalonians 5:19–22).
How do i know when interesting things happen in my life where it is coming from? I am assuming that it is from God if I am seking Him and trying to prayerfully consider events that happen.
We should never assume anything is from God until it has been tested. Often what seems heavenly is later discovered to be a natural or even unholy thing caused by human or diabolic agency precisely to deceive us. St. Paul warns, “But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, If any one is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:8–9). This is a foundational teaching of spiritual theologians: Do not trust any private revelation if it differs in any way from the constant public teaching of the Church. Such a revelation is almost certainly heresy.
We should also be prepared to accept ordinary events even more than “phenomena.” Good results often come from ordinary prayer, for example. But you say, “If I pray for someone and they seem to get what I was praying for, I would think it is pretty obvious that this was God at work.” While it is true that the will of God enters into everything that happens in creation, I do not think you are considering whether it is his positive will or his bare permission that is operative in a given event. For it is quite possible for a person to pray for something that is not good, and such a thing is never in accord with God’s will, even if he allows it to happen as the person desires.
David
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brian
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 720 |
| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
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Posted: Thu Oct 19th, 2006 02:54 am |
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| my point about prayerfully considering was that i meant testing it. And as far as thge answers to prayer, i was pecidfically thinking of things like a person gaiing ground in their helath or spiritual life toward conversion. Like if i pray for someone to be strengthened in their faith and it seems to happen i should praise God that He seemed to answer this prayer, or that He allowed me to pray for something that He was clearly already doing (since i would not want to try to take any credit). It is also good as you say that no event that contrasts clear church teaching should be trusted.
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