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Christine Ann
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | An Hours' Drive From Cincinnati, Ohio USA |
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| First Name: | Christine Ann | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | former Lutheran, Baptist, now Catholic. |
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Posted: Sun Jul 8th, 2007 07:15 pm |
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Hello Everyone,
I'm trying to study the virtue of humility. The book I'm reading, Humility of Heart says that St. Augustine said, "No one reaches the kingdom of Heaven except by humility." So this to me is a very serious subject. It also states that humility is "declaring yourself as nothingness before him."
This seems to oppose the protestant teaching I received that we are to know who we are in Christ...that we are not nothing, but we are somehow royalty  in Christ. Are we not to esteem ourselves in any way? because our souls have great value to Him. Or is it that in comparison to God we are nothing? I could accept that.
I understand the opposite of humility is pride. In a society that has taught us "self-esteem", are we mistaken to consider ourselves of any worth? Or is this strictly a comparison between God and Humans.
And how does one know when they are humble? It is said that if you think you are humble, you are not. The elimination of self-regard, or pride seems extremely difficult if not impossible.
Perhaps I'm not explaining well, but am I wrong in having any self-regard? Thanks for your responses!
Christine Ann
P.S. When I felt I was nothing and worthless to anyone, the Lord spoke to my heart clearly that I was of "great worth" to him. Am I to go back to nothingness?
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Sindone
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| Joined: | Sat Jul 7th, 2007 |
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| First Name: | Sindon | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | RC...rc...RC |
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Posted: Sun Jul 8th, 2007 08:07 pm |
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Dear Christine,
I am happy to see your post, it is one of the issues that I am trying to understand as well. When I was wondering why the Franciscans wear brown tunic, I came across a website of the Carmelite monks explaining this. It says that brown tunic signifies the earth-colour, which symolizes humility. The word humility seemsto come from 'humus'.
And when reading the writing of Mother Teresa, she explains that true humility consists in being able to accept 'humiliation'.
So, if 'humus' reminds us of humility, I guess it means not to be concerned when trampled by passers-by, but at the same time knowing that itself is useful for the plants etc...
Just my simple opinion!
But, actually I have been trying to understand what is true humility and false humility. In societies where we are taught to be good manners, to be presentative, polite etc etc, we sometimes confused with these outward virtues with humility. But when others act differently even with the good intention, we quickly turn our eyes towards them with a different look.
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BettyBoopToo
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| Location: | Camas/Washougal, Washington USA |
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| First Name: | Betty | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Fist Baptist/Calvary Babtist/Secular Confusion/ Roman Catholic |
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Posted: Sun Jul 8th, 2007 10:51 pm |
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Well, since this is the fourth time I've tried to type a response and it keeps either disappearing because the forum says that I've logged out or it disappears because I'm trying to attach a word document that I have.
So I shall try this again.
This is a nice explaination from New Advent. The remainder of the article you can find here. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07543b.htm
The virtue of humility may be defined: "A quality by which a person considering his own defects has a lowly opinion of himself and willingly submits himself to God and to others for God's sake." St. Bernard defines it: "A virtue by which a man knowing himself as he truly is, abases himself." These definitions coincide with that given by St. Thomas: "The virtue of humility", he says, "Consists in keeping oneself within one's own bounds, not reaching out to things above one, but submitting to one's superior" (Summa Contra Gent., bk. IV, ch. lv, tr. Rickaby).
To guard against an erroneous idea of humility, it is necessary to explain the manner in which we ought to esteem our own gifts in reference to the gifts of others, if called upon to make a comparison. Humility does not require us to esteem the gifts and graces which God has granted us, in the supernatural order, less than similar gifts and graces which appear in others. No one should esteem less in himself than in others these gifts of God which are to be valued above all things according to the words of St. Paul: "That we may know the things that are given us from God." (1 Corinthians 2:12). Neither does humility require us in our own estimation to think less of the natural gifts we possess than of similar, or of inferior, gifts in our neighbours; otherwise, as St. Thomas teaches, it would behove everyone to consider himself a greater sinner or a greater fool than his neighbour; for the Apostle without any prejudice to humility was able to say: "We by nature are Jews, and not of the Gentiles sinners" (Galatians 2:15). A man, however, may generally esteem some good in his neighbour which he does not himself possess, or acknowledge some defect or evil in himself which he does not perceive in his neighbour, so that, whenever anyone subjects himself out of humility to an equal or to an inferior he does so because he takes that equal or inferior to be his superior in some respect. Thus we may interpret the humble expressions of the saints as true and sincere. Besides, their great love of God caused them to see the malice of their own faults and sins in a clearer light than that which is ordinarily given to persons who are not saints.
I have a very nice prayer that I pray daily and it has been of enormous help in my own journey in so many ways that it's difficult to explain.
O Jesus! meek and humble of heart, Hear me.
From the desire of being esteemed,
Deliver me, Jesus.
From the desire of being loved...
From the desire of being extolled ...
From the desire of being honored ...
From the desire of being praised ...
From the desire of being preferred to others...
From the desire of being consulted ...
From the desire of being approved ...
From the fear of being humiliated ...
From the fear of being despised...
From the fear of suffering rebukes ...
From the fear of being calumniated ...
From the fear of being forgotten ...
From the fear of being ridiculed ...
From the fear of being wronged ...
From the fear of being suspected ...
That others may be loved more than I,
Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.
That others may be esteemed more than I ...
That, in the opinion of the world,
others may increase and I may decrease ...
That others may be chosen and I set aside ...
That others may be praised and I unnoticed ...
That others may be preferred to me in everything...
That others may become holier than I, provided that I may become as holy as I should…
Rafael Cardinal Merry del Val
I cannot comment very well as to what other christian churches teach on this subject, but I will say from personal experience that I've had some come across in conversation, preaching, and every day contact. Some seem to really be quite boastful or proud (I've seen catholics like this too) and I've not really figured out why.
In todays society, I think that Humility is certainly a virtue that we all have to work toward and use a great deal of prayer, asking God for the grace and the help to be just as he wishes we would be or as holy as he wishes we would be. And only through his help can we arrive at any state of humility. Because It is he who is in me that is good and not me or of my own doing.
I think that meditating on the life of our lady, praying the Rosary and asking her to pray for what ever she's feels we are lacking in the humilty department is the best way to work on this virtue (that I've found). The prayer above helps as a prayer and also as a guide as how to think or react when others may hurt you or when we get our feelings hurt for non recognition, etc. I've found it to be helpful when I've been injured to recall the words in the prayer and rearrage my thinking on these issues. so I can thank the lord for teaching me.
The prayer is in complete oposition to what we have normally learned from the world, as is many a christian teaching.
God Bless
Betty
____________________
Patience
"Whenever anything disagreeable or displeasing happens to you, remember Christ crucified and be silent."
St. John of the Cross
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Sun Jul 8th, 2007 11:34 pm |
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Christine Ann, the short answer to your question is: No, the Church does not mean by humility that you absolutely have to hate yourself and consider yourself nothing. It is only in comparison with God that we are nothing. In fact, it is necessary that we begin our spiritual journey with the understanding that we are children of God, made by his hand and destined to spend eternity in heaven with him. Each human being, ourselves included, has intrinsic worth.
Humility begins when you recognize that your intrinsic worth does not come from yourself but from God. He made you; you had no hand in that. He blessed you with everything you need to live; you did not come by it through your own effort. He gave you a name for all eternity; you did not merit that name, and you did not invent it.
Basically, then, humility is simply recognition of the truth about ourselves and our condition. It means not comparing ourselves to others. Not at any level, not in any way, for this is the work of pride.
As you grow in charity (another essential virtue, you will recall), you will also grow in humility. This is because charity allows the soul to go out from itself and embrace the other. The other then becomes important, and the self learns to forget itself and concentrate on the other. This must be done on both levels: with God and with our neighbor. 1 John 4:7–12 explains why and how:
Beloved, let us love one another; for love is of God, and he who loves is born of God and knows God. He who does not love does not know God; for God is love. In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. In this is love, not that we loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No man has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.
Humility is not just a set of rules. It is not self-effacement at one’s own expense. You become something — Godlike — insofar as you “disappear” from view, especially from your own view. It is in this sense that the person who thinks he is humble has not begun to be humble. For if he were truly humble, he would not care because he never thinks of himself.
No, you are not to go back to nothingness. Your being expands and grows through charity, and in this way your humility also grows and becomes more powerful.
Peace and joy to you, Christine Ann.
David
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Christine Ann
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | An Hours' Drive From Cincinnati, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 113 |
| First Name: | Christine Ann | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | former Lutheran, Baptist, now Catholic. |
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Posted: Sun Jul 8th, 2007 11:40 pm |
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Thank you Sindon and Betty for your responses. I can see that I have much to learn. Betty's prayer helps me understand what true humility is, and I am severly lacking!  I will continue to read and study and pray for the grace to be humble. I've never thought of myself being proud, but I begin to see how sin-filled I am. This will be a painful process, I think.
But I am to see myself as God views me, "as of filthy rags". I was taught that when God views me, he sees Jesus and my sins are "covered." How wrong this is! This is going to take time to sort out. How can they teach this doctrine, which is so false and such a danger to our souls?
In Christ,
Christine Ann
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BettyBoopToo
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| Location: | Camas/Washougal, Washington USA |
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| First Name: | Betty | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Fist Baptist/Calvary Babtist/Secular Confusion/ Roman Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Jul 9th, 2007 03:46 am |
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Christine Ann wrote: This will be a painful process, I think.
I relate my process as I am like a large chunk of Rock, marbel or stone with an even harder heart and stubborn to boot. God as the artist has had to use a chisel on my hard heart and head and he's gradually been breaking off chunks as we go along. sometimes he's had to break off some very sinful and large chunks at a time. yes! it's been very painful. I'm still a work in progress and I pray he'll not give up on me.
Some use an anology as pruning, but I have found I'm not as supple as a tree or shrub.
But I am to see myself as God views me, "as of filthy rags". I was taught that when God views me, he sees Jesus and my sins are "covered." How wrong this is! This is going to take time to sort out. How can they teach this doctrine, which is so false and such a danger to our souls?
Maybe David can help us with this. Or someone else that has Read Luthers writings.
Isn't it something that Martin Luther taught that peoples sins were covered as with or like as white as snow??? As long as people had faith in christ, then due to christ sacrafice on the cross he had covered all our sins as white as snow. I think that was more like what I read.
I was just interested in where this train of thought or teaching came from. I could be horribley wrong, but I just remember reading this while studying some protestant doctrines.
We are all very blessed that our lord has left his holy church's teaching and has also left us provisions for the journey. I don't know that I'll succeed in holyness, but I trust that he'll help me to become as holy as he wants me to be.
God Bless and good night.
ps I do pray that one day the lord will teach me or give me the words to explain things as beautiful as David, Rick and some of you other folks that do it so well. Until then I'm grateful to try.
Betty
____________________
Patience
"Whenever anything disagreeable or displeasing happens to you, remember Christ crucified and be silent."
St. John of the Cross
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Tina in Ashburn
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| Joined: | Mon May 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | Ashburn, Virginia USA |
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| First Name: | Tina | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Roman Catholic, Ukranian Catholic, presently practicing as Roman Latin ... |
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Posted: Mon Jul 9th, 2007 11:22 pm |
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Great post David! So well said.
True humility is real perspective of who we actually are, both good and bad. Christine Ann, if you ever "get" it call me! I'll never figure out this mystery.
Bottom line, humility fights our human nature so much, its pretty safe to say, we are never humble enough. I pray for it daily, though probably with not enough humility.
____________________
Tina
Arlington Diocese
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