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Kayla
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| Joined: | Mon Jul 30th, 2007 |
| Location: | Emmitsburg, Maryland USA |
| Posts: | 348 |
| First Name: | Kayla | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Atheist, kind-of Mormon, Catholic |
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Posted: Sun Aug 12th, 2007 11:24 pm |
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Most committed Christians don’t sin mortally. - David http://chnetwork.org/forums/forum45/866.html
I have been reading through a lot of the older posts on moral theology, in particular those that have to do with determining whether or not a particular sin is mortal. Like most new Catholics, this has been an area that confuses me- not in its most basic form, for I understand the three requirements for a sin to be mortal, but in the deeper aspects, particularly in determining what is grave matter.
I think the roots of my difficulties in understanding this has more to do with the idea that I do not know how often good, striving to grow closer to God Catholics committ mortal sins. Do most committed Christians sin mortally? Or do they not? It's as though I have this mindset, I don't think I have committed a mortal sin, but I'm really not any better than anyone else, so I probably have. (But, then comes the question, can you committ a mortal sin without knowing it's a mortal sin?) I believe it is this mindset that is making me question what a grave matter really is.
At first I was thinking that if one knows that something is a sin and then willfully (giving full consent) committs this sin, then that is in of itself a grave matter because one has willfully turned away from God. After more study, I have realized that I did not have a full understanding of the nature of sin.
So, I understand that the gravity of sin is important. Now, however, I still question as to the line of when a matter becomes grave and cuts the offender off from God.
Where is that line? I think many of you are right in saying that knowing this comes from experience and a good confessor. Would it be okay to ask a confessor after confessing if you had committed any mortal sins, to get a better idea? Or would the fact that you don't know and are questioning indicate that they couldn't have been mortal in the first place?
Another question  : Does one have to know the gravity of a sin (basically, that if committed, this sin would be grave enough to be mortal) in order for the sin to be mortal? Or can one know fully that something is sinfull, but not know the gravity of that sin, give full consent, and having the matter end up being grave- would that still be considered a mortal sin? (I know I didn't word the question very well, but I hope you see what I'm getting at..)
But- apart from my apparent confusion, I guess what I really need to know... do most committed Christians sin mortally? I like to see myself as a committed Christian, doing my best to strive for holiness, to grow closer to God in all things. I know it seems like an awckward question (and who can really know?), but, am I likely to committ a mortal sin? I really don't know how often people of like minds/wills committ mortal sin.
Thanks for the patience here. I think I'm right at the edge of understanding.
Kayla
____________________
I believe, Lord, help my unbelief.
Jesus, I trust in You!
There's not a lot of job security for us after death. I suppose that's one advantage of being a philosopher. - Peter Kreeft
http://kayla23mount.blogspot.com/
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Racaela Fultz
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| Joined: | Sat Aug 4th, 2007 |
| Location: | Indiana USA |
| Posts: | 146 |
| First Name: | Racaela | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Nondenominational, will be Catholic Advent 2007 |
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Posted: Mon Aug 13th, 2007 12:11 am |
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I don't really know anything, I haven't even quite started RCIA, but I've done a lot of reading and thinking on this subject.
My thought runs thusly: Mortal sin is a turning away from, a rejection of, God. The idea is that the thought pattern is "I know that committing adultry is incredibly wrong, I know that it's against God's will and his plan and what he wants me to do, but I don't care. Forget what God wants, forget God, my own desires are more imporant, so I'm going to commit adultry anyway!"
Missing mass without reason is also a mortal sin, but it's not the missing mass, it's the
that is the mortal sin so much as it is the rejecting of God. "I know I should go to mass, I know that Jesus wants me to go to mass, but I don't care, I'd rather stay home and watch TV - forget God and what he wants!"
It is the inner thought processes, the inner decisions, that make something a mortal sin. Remember that if you reject God, reject Christ, you lose your salvation unless you repent and turn back to him. So, let's say that the person in the first example commits adultry. If and when that person is truly sorry he should truly repent of rejecting God and his will, going to confession and making right what he did wrong. Then he will be forgiven and restored to grace.
Also, when you sin mortally you have to go to confession. The reality is, as soon as you are truly repentant, and intend to go to confession as soon as possible, and to make it right, you are forgiven. It's not a, shoot, I sinned mortally and then truly repented, but I was killed in a car wreck on the way to confession so now I'm in hell. No. If you mean to get to confession as soon as it makes sense, you are forgiven immediately. If you put off going to confession, you are not truly repenting.
I don't think that committed believers often sin mortally. In order for a sin to be truly mortal, it has to be an intentional rejecting of God. That doesn't happen very often. Remember, too, that God judges the heart, and he knows best.
Anyway, those are my thoughts, but what do I know? If I got something wrong there, feel free to correct me. I'm always ready to learn.
____________________
"To be deep in history is to cease to be protestant" - Cardinal Newman
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David W. Emery
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
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Posted: Mon Aug 13th, 2007 12:16 am |
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Kayla, one of the better guides is to look at the Ten Commandments, using one of the handy guide booklets that one can buy for a couple of bucks at most places where Catholic items are sold. If you have transgressed any of them, you have probably committed a grave sin, and depending on how the three requirements for mortal sin apply to your case, perhaps a mortal sin.
Since you quote me as saying that “most committed Christians don’t sin mortally,” I will admit to this and reiterate it here. Anyone truly trying to serve God is not likely to be committing mortal sins, at least not often. Even where his sins involve grave matter, the lack of complete consent will usually keep them from being mortal.
As a new Catholic, it is natural that you would be struggling with these things. Experience in the sacrament of penance is a great help in recognizing what is a grave sin and when you have sinned mortally. As you progress in the spiritual life, you will find a similar barrier in recognizing venial sins as versus imperfections which are not sins at all. Again, frequent experience in the sacrament of penance is a good teacher.
I often talk through with my confessor any inner struggles and difficulties I may have in seeing my way. He may not be able (or may not wish) to look deeply into my soul, but I have found his advice sound, and after a few days, weeks or months and subsequent confessions I am able to see more clearly.
Would it be okay to ask a confessor after confessing if you had committed any mortal sins, to get a better idea? Or would the fact that you don't know and are questioning indicate that they couldn't have been mortal in the first place?
You can ask your confessor (and I do recommend you find one that you find helpful and stay with him), but his response is likely going to be that he is not counting whether a sin is mortal or venial, but just that it is a sin and therefore something which can be absolved. After all, what you are after, and what he can offer, is absolution.
But I do agree for the most part that if you are hesitant as to whether you have committed mortal sin in a particular instance, you probably haven’t. As a beginner, however, you will want to be sure that you haven’t misunderstood something, because misunderstanding can drastically change the complexion of things. So for now, I would recommend that you confess and/or discuss with your confessor just any doubt or difficulty you may have.
My point in this reply is that you do not need to worry about the gravity of your sins. Just confess them as you see them — in other words, what you see as sins and probable sins — and let your confessor do the hard work of sorting them out. No, you do not need to know the gravity of your sins, only that you have sinned. All sin needs to be forgiven and expiated for you to enter the kingdom of heaven, and if you start thinking that you have not committed a mortal sin even when you have something weighing heavily on your conscience, you may not confess it (thinking it was a venial sin, which can be forgiven through means other than the sacrament of penance) and on entering eternity find that you are judged unworthy of heaven due to presumption.
I think I'm right at the edge of understanding.
Yes, I think you are.
David
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Kayla
Member
| Joined: | Mon Jul 30th, 2007 |
| Location: | Emmitsburg, Maryland USA |
| Posts: | 348 |
| First Name: | Kayla | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Atheist, kind-of Mormon, Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Aug 13th, 2007 04:43 am |
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David W. Emery wrote: Kayla, one of the better guides is to look at the Ten Commandments, using one of the handy guide booklets that one can buy for a couple of bucks at most places where Catholic items are sold. If you have transgressed any of them, you have probably committed a grave sin, and depending on how the three requirements for mortal sin apply to your case, perhaps a mortal sin.
I suppose this is where things get tricky for me, because certain things transgress a commandment to more or lesser degree. "Thou shalt not bear false witness"- so is lying about having done your homework the same as committing fraud (which is also stealing, but you get my point). Both break a commandment but one is obviously lesser than the other. Are both grave matters? I know the instance I gave above seems pretty obvious, one is serious the other isn't. But not all matters are that obvious. Then, I suppose that's when experience comes in.
My point in this reply is that you do not need to worry about the gravity of your sins. Just confess them as you see them — in other words, what you see as sins and probable sins — and let your confessor do the hard work of sorting them out. No, you do not need to know the gravity of your sins, only that you have sinned. All sin needs to be forgiven and expiated for you to enter the kingdom of heaven, and if you start thinking that you have not committed a mortal sin even when you have something weighing heavily on your conscience, you may not confess it (thinking it was a venial sin, which can be forgiven through means other than the sacrament of penance) and on entering eternity find that you are judged unworthy of heaven due to presumption.
What you have said here really helps me, so thank you David.
I think my main reason for concern on this whole matter is that one of my worst fears is to go and receive Holy Communion unworthily. I do not want to go up to receive in a state of mortal sin. Ever.
____________________
I believe, Lord, help my unbelief.
Jesus, I trust in You!
There's not a lot of job security for us after death. I suppose that's one advantage of being a philosopher. - Peter Kreeft
http://kayla23mount.blogspot.com/
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David W. Emery
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
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Posted: Mon Aug 13th, 2007 09:06 am |
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Kayla, regarding the Ten Commandments, you will note that “lying” does not correspond exactly to the actual commandment against “false witness.” The commandment has to do specifically with perjury, which is always a grave sin. Lying is a more general corollary, and as you have noted, it can be more or less grave depending on the matter it concerns.
The same process can be seen in the other commandments. For instance, “You shall not commit adultery” clearly prohibits a sin which is always grave because it is in direct violation of one’s marriage vows. Corollaries, such as homosexuality or overemphasis on sexual pleasure, may be more or less grave depending on how they are manifested.
As a new Catholic, what you need more than anything is formation of conscience. You will attain this by frequent confession (once or twice a month, depending on your needs), including consultation with the priest regarding any doubts or difficulties you may have. Getting to know a specific confessor will help both of you get a “feel” for the other and for how to handle your difficulties, whether practical or intellectual. By following this procedure, you will have little danger of ever receiving other sacraments unworthily.
Lastly, if you should ever encounter a priest who complains you are wasting his time, that he is there to absolve mortal sins only, find another priest. To restrict the sacrament of penance in this manner is abusive both of the sacrament and of the penitent. You should be able to talk about your problems, no matter what they are, and confess venial sins, and the priest should be willing to offer counsel and absolution for all sins. This is part of the sacrament.
David
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