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brian
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 720 |
| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
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Posted: Sat Dec 23rd, 2006 04:59 am |
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not sure where this topic belongs, but i do believe in giving a portion of ones income regularly and faithfully and maybe even more than this portion when led to do so. my question is, say i give 10 or 8 or 20 or 39 percent or whatevver i decide of my income away. two things i wonder, how much should go to my parish and how much can i save for other charitable causes? secondly, what must i tithe if anything of gifts i receive. if i earn 1,000 dollars and someone gives me 200 for my birthday (just as an example) do i tithe off of the 200 making my percentage of 1,200? or do i only give from the 200 what i desire to in addition and above my commitment?
thanks, Brian
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David W. Emery
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
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| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Sat Dec 23rd, 2006 10:22 am |
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The Catholic Church is less rigid about tithing than many of the Protestant denominations and congregations. It is considered a voluntary act, never mandatory. Giving something to the Church and to apostolates and charitable organizations is right and good and even in a sense obligatory, but no monetary value is fixed because everyone’s circumstances are different.
If one is going to tithe, a rule of thumb that has been suggested is that one should give five percent to one’s parish and another five percent to the causes of one’s choice. This would complete the biblical tithe. Giving more or less should be based on one’s financial circumstances, not on a feeling of obligation.
It is the individual’s private decision whether to tithe on gifts received as well. Usually they are a small proportion of one’s overall income, so could be considered insignificant. An inheritance or winnings, on the other hand, could be substantial and ought to be considered when tithing.
David
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Darlene
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Pocono Mountains, Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 877 |
| First Name: | Darlene | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Christian, trusting His love and forgiveness |
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Posted: Sat Dec 23rd, 2006 06:46 pm |
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David,
You are right about Protestant Denominations being more rigid. I think almost every church I have attended, has stressed 10% of one's income should go to tithing. And in some of these cases, they say 10% of one's gross income. They get this from Abraham's tithing. Isn't that peculiar, almost as if they use the Old Covenant (Testament) when it is convenient to benefit them? I've always questioned this Protestant teaching on tithing. Afterall, tithing 10% is not even mentioned in the New Testament. In fact, the accounts in Acts show that the early church gave to anyone who had need, by selling their possessions and goods. And I think Jesus teaching on the poor widow who could only give a small amount, but how that was more pleasing to God than the Pharisees giving abundantly, flies in the face of the Protestant teaching on tithing. Jesus commends this poor widowby saying, "This poor widow has put in more than all the others." What I understand Jesus to be saying here is "To give out of one's heart and poverty, is more blessed and pleasing to God than to give large amounts without reverence and sacrifice to God. But I think one of the reasons it is so vital to Protestant Doctrine is that many of these churches are struggling and they do not receive help from other churches since most of them are autonomous. And therefore, it would seem to me that the many splits within Protestantism make it almost necessary to teach this tithing doctrine in order that each individual church not be forced to close.
For example, right now, I am a member of a non-Denominational Church. Basically we are on our own, sink or swim. So at member's meetings when discussing finances, there is often a "strained" atmosphere. But we are not connected to any other church body. This really bothers me because it effects everything from finances, to fellowship, to discipline, to the accountability of the pastor, to teaching. If we go astray who will know or care? In that case, the members can just find another church to attend. This dilemma is one of the big reasons that I was first drawn to the Catholic faith, among several others.
Also, on this matter of tithing, I have often felt uncomfortable when the plate is passed around at the service. I have been concerned on many occasions that God is displeased with us because we weren't able to give 10% of our income, due to financial strains upon our household. Then I would think of the varous sermons I have heard over the years that have taught that tithing is an act of faith. If one first takes from their income what belongs to God, then God will supply the rest to that Believer. He will take care of all their needs. So, not to first tithe 10% of our earnings to God is disobedience. And this disobedience will lead to discipline from God in one fashion or another. Anyhow, I think through talking about this now, I am just realizing the burden I have been living under with regard to this teaching on tithing.
Darlene
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The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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CajunRick
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| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Tue Dec 26th, 2006 12:26 pm |
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Darlene wrote: have often felt uncomfortable when the plate is passed around at the service. I have been concerned on many occasions that God is displeased with us because we weren't able to give 10% of our income, due to financial strains upon our household.
The Catholic Church does not teach strict tithing, but instead teaches "stewardship," and stewardship involved time, talent, and treasure. When I donate my time to teach religion classes, or to sing in church, I am returning to God what God has given to me.
There are 168 hours in a week. I see tithing as a need to return to God 16.8 hours. That may be in time spend volunteering at a food bank, or teaching the faith to my children, or going to church, or praying, or contributing that many hours wages to the church or other worthwhile organizations, or being a Girl Scout leader or (best of all) a combination of all of these. After all, the principal gift God has given me is time. If I had no time, I would have nothing to tithe. 16.8 hours of my time belongs to God, who has given me all of it.
God doesn't expect money. God expects us to give of ourselves. The money is only valid because it is the "fruit of our labors" but it should be only a portion of what we return to the Lord.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Darlene
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Pocono Mountains, Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 877 |
| First Name: | Darlene | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Christian, trusting His love and forgiveness |
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Posted: Tue Dec 26th, 2006 02:27 pm |
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Thanks so much for your compassionate reply. And my husband would be in full agreement with you hear. He has never accepted that 10% tithing teaching as scriptural - at least not 10% of one's income. He has said on many occasions that he tithes in other ways. For example, he cleans the carpets at the church a few times a year and charges nothing. He considers this a tithe. He considers the works that you have mentioned as a tithe. When we open our home to others and invite them to dinner and fellowship, he considers this "giving."
Thanks again Rick, for your response.
Darlene
____________________
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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Luke12:48
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| Joined: | Sat Sep 30th, 2006 |
| Location: | Southeast, Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 119 |
| First Name: | Kate | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle catholic, left for many years, returned June 2006 |
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Posted: Sat Dec 30th, 2006 09:23 pm |
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Rick,
This is a great way to look at it! I have always done this but more because I felt time was what I could give that seemed to be needed even more than another check but this really states it clearly. However, I must say I am very impressed that you calculated 10% of all hours and not just waking hours  Some of us mortals need to allow for sleep.
Kate
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CajunRick
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
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| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Sat Dec 30th, 2006 11:33 pm |
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Luke12:48 wrote: This is a great way to look at it! I have always done this but more because I felt time was what I could give that seemed to be needed even more than another check but this really states it clearly. However, I must say I am very impressed that you calculated 10% of all hours and not just waking hours Some of us mortals need to allow for sleep.
And your sleep is not a gift from God? 
Actually, the idea came from a Stewardship talk I gave several years ago shortly after hearing the song "525,600 Minutes" from Rent. 16.8 hours a week is easier to understand than 52,560 minutes a year!
Here's another way to look at it. Take everything you give to God (time, talent, and treasure) and multiply it by 10. Don't forget the time you spend in prayer, in parental instruction, and in nurturing your marital relationship. Can you survive on the result? If not, you need to reconsider your priorities in life.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Luke12:48
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| Joined: | Sat Sep 30th, 2006 |
| Location: | Southeast, Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 119 |
| First Name: | Kate | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle catholic, left for many years, returned June 2006 |
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Posted: Sat Dec 30th, 2006 11:45 pm |
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I needed a laugh about now and just got it. YES, sleep is a gift when I can get it between sick kids!
Hmmm--that is a great "test" It is like picking your big rocks first.
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lia
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| Joined: | Mon Dec 11th, 2006 |
| Location: | Quezon City, Philippines |
| Posts: | 86 |
| First Name: | lia | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Apr 10th, 2007 11:53 pm |
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In Germany they have the "church tax". I was told that the reason why most people don't declare their religion is because "church tax" is automatically deducted from their salaries (?). And this is still different from what you give when it's offeratory time. I'm not sure if this is a law of the country or the Catholic Church rule there. It is one of the reasons why a friend of mine stopped being a Catholic, I think. Wouldn't this "church tax" discourage people to become Catholics? Although, I must say this tax also affects the Protestants there (I think). Does the Catholic Church really impose that "church tax"? Er,...maybe somebody here knows about it?
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Man can't b forced 2 accept the truth.He can b drawn toward the truth only by his own nature, that is, by his own freedom w/c commits him 2 search sincerely 4 truth & when he finds it, 2 adhere 2 it both in his conviction & his behavior.-- JP2
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CajunRick
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Posted: Wed Apr 11th, 2007 12:13 am |
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lia wrote: In Germany they have the "church tax".
I didn't think that was still in effect anywhere. "Church tax" traditionally supports only the official state religion. I know for a long time, there was a tax to support the Catholic Church in France, and Islamic countries support Islam.
According to Wikipedia, the church tax is still in effect in Germanic and Scandanavian countries of Europe. It might help to explain why so many Europeans identify themselves as having no religion.
At any rate, the Catholci Church does not have the authority to collect taxes anywhere but in Vatican City. Any taxes collected would have to be deducted by the government and turned over to the church, and apparently it is not only the Catholic Church that collects.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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JillD
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Visalia, California USA |
| Posts: | 600 |
| First Name: | Jill | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | heathen, EvFree, Messianic, LC-MS, Catholic 2007 |
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Posted: Wed Apr 11th, 2007 11:28 am |
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| My brother married a woman from Germany who said that they do still pay a church tax. She is Lutheran, so it's not limited to the Catholic Church. She said that it's "purpose" is to cover things like baptisms, weddings, and funerals.
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"The alternative to obedience is to turn the conversation into a cacophony of Christians making it up as they go along." - Fr. Richard John Neuhaus
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lia
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| Joined: | Mon Dec 11th, 2006 |
| Location: | Quezon City, Philippines |
| Posts: | 86 |
| First Name: | lia | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic |
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Posted: Sun Apr 15th, 2007 12:47 am |
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JillD wrote: My brother married a woman from Germany who said that they do still pay a church tax. She is Lutheran, so it's not limited to the Catholic Church. She said that it's "purpose" is to cover things like baptisms, weddings, and funerals.
I assumed that church tax is a monthly thing (or maybe even yearly)... So to get the full benefit of such a tax...
Hmm...so people there get baptized more than once? (Understandable if one "church hops" ). Weddings...by that it means being divorced more than once, ergo, can wed as many times? Funerals...ok, you can only do this once  ... Ok, I'm trying to be funny
I'm still stumped as to the purpose of this tax. :? I'm not sure if I was right in telling my friend maybe he could have not declared himself as Catholic to the state and still be Catholic and attend mass.
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Man can't b forced 2 accept the truth.He can b drawn toward the truth only by his own nature, that is, by his own freedom w/c commits him 2 search sincerely 4 truth & when he finds it, 2 adhere 2 it both in his conviction & his behavior.-- JP2
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Vanessa
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| Joined: | Tue Mar 20th, 2007 |
| Location: | United Kingdom |
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| First Name: | Vanessa | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Catholic, atheist, Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Apr 24th, 2007 07:45 am |
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I find this very interesting.
The word 'tithing' has very negative connotations here in the UK. It it what was paid to landlords to use the land that should have belonged to the people anyway.
It is something now associated here with 'Fundamentalists' in the US, which fortunately is not something we have to contend with.
The collection box at Mass is between one and God. There is no requirement beyond that. How could there be?
Vanessa
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CajunRick
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Posted: Tue Apr 24th, 2007 12:01 pm |
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Vanessa wrote: The collection box at Mass is between one and God. There is no requirement beyond that. How could there be?
There is still the biblical requirement to return a tenth to the Lord, and Jesus' command to render to God the things that are God's. In our diocese, our bishop recommends returning 10% to God in the form of contributions to charity, one of which is the Church.
Since I have never been wealthy, I have always considered my ministry efforts a form of tithing, since I am giving God my time and talents, even though I can't give much treasure.
So there is no "requirement" in the Catholic faith, except that we support the Church and its financial needs.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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lia
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| Joined: | Mon Dec 11th, 2006 |
| Location: | Quezon City, Philippines |
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| First Name: | lia | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic |
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Posted: Sat Apr 28th, 2007 12:01 am |
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With the population of my country of 80 million (and rising)...70% are below poverty level, it would be impossible to impose a 10% tithing obligation to the laity. Well, survey says that only 25% of Catholics in the Phils. go to mass. And yet, we seem to manage to have churches built (and fund church programs which helps the poor). And help raise money for tuition fees of seminarians...etc.
It's not very often that our priest would try to encourage the 10% tithing. This is not imposed on us Catholics. Since Jesus did away with this with the encounter with the poor woman who donated a few dinari(?). The rich gives out of their excess while the poor gives out of their nothingness. The poor are more generous. I believe we've always astounded foreigners who visit the poor because when they eat, they would still invite the visitors with a smile to partake of the food they are eating (even if there's not much). But then again...I guess that's a Filipino trait...to invite people to partake of one's meal, that is.
Our Archbishop Rosales (guested at EWTN a few months back) has started a project of PONDO NG PINOY (Fund for Filipinos). He believes that small things if collected together will amount to something big. And so this project is for Catholics to put away (voluntarily) 25centavos (that's $0.0053) every day in a water bottle (or whatever container they want) and once it's full, to be given to the church (you can write your name on the bottle) and be offered during mass. The money is pooled and will be used to help the poor or finance a business for them or something.
Rick is right, even if we are not obligated by this 10% tithing...we are obligated to support financially our priests. For them to continue to serve us in being our spiritual guides. I believe it's St. Paul who mentioned this.
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Man can't b forced 2 accept the truth.He can b drawn toward the truth only by his own nature, that is, by his own freedom w/c commits him 2 search sincerely 4 truth & when he finds it, 2 adhere 2 it both in his conviction & his behavior.-- JP2
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Serina
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| Joined: | Tue Jun 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
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| First Name: | Serina | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic, Lapsed, Now Hopelessly Devoted |
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Posted: Wed Jun 6th, 2007 01:18 pm |
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Thanks for this topic. I was just about to ask about tithing and stewardship. I am a catechist who is in a financial hardship at this time and during the offering sometimes I feel guilty when I cannot tith; however, after constant reminding of my gift of teaching catechism to young 3rd graders I feel little more at ease. Thanks everyone for clearing up some of my confusion.
I do have to say though that I let my little ones have the joy of digging in my purse and pulling out dollar bills so they can put in the basket. For some reason they enjoy this immensely! I guess you would call this "their stewardship"--hahaha!Last edited on Wed Jun 6th, 2007 01:22 pm by Serina
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Our Lady of Fatima said, "Certain fashions will be introduced which will offend Our Divine Lord very much. Those who serve God ought not to follow these fashions."
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lia
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| Joined: | Mon Dec 11th, 2006 |
| Location: | Quezon City, Philippines |
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| First Name: | lia | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Jun 6th, 2007 08:02 pm |
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Serina wrote: I do have to say though that I let my little ones have the joy of digging in my purse and pulling out dollar bills so they can put in the basket. For some reason they enjoy this immensely! I guess you would call this "their stewardship"--hahaha!
From my experience, when I was a kid, my parents would give me the money to drop in the basket when offeratory comes. I think most Filipino families let the kids have the money and drop the love-offerings in the basket. And yeah...it seems to please them. Well, isn't there a saying, there's joy in giving? Children must understand this inherently, eh? And it's a way of teaching them to share and give as well, I guess. Don't you think so?
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Man can't b forced 2 accept the truth.He can b drawn toward the truth only by his own nature, that is, by his own freedom w/c commits him 2 search sincerely 4 truth & when he finds it, 2 adhere 2 it both in his conviction & his behavior.-- JP2
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