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mrsbmoo
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 344 |
| First Name: | Becky | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | former Methodist. RCA, Presbyterian, Holiness, Wesleyan... Catholic as of June ... |
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Posted: Fri Nov 3rd, 2006 04:34 pm |
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I need advice from people who have survived their kids' teenage years. I am at a loss with my oldest daughter. I guess I will begin at the end for lack of a better plan. Brianne got a digital camera with her birthday money. Today my husband found nude photos of her on her computer when he used it to do some online schoolwork. We could find no evidence that she had sent them to anyone but still we were horrifed. This says terrible things about her mental and moral state. She is 15, a junior in High School with a B average, has always gone to private school, is never allowed to be out alone with boys, in fact this is the first year we have allowed her to go out at all with friends without an adult present. She loves to attend mass and Sunday school. Yet, she suffers from lack of self esteem and closes herself off in her room alone most of the time. I know her friends and their parents. They are not accepting of this. We have talked about why pornograhphy is wrong just recently. I have another teen daughter and she has moments of teen drama but never has given me this kind of trouble. Why is she doing this and what am I doing wrong?
My husband(her step-father) and I are going to confront her after school and I have no clue what to say. Her Dad is not closely involved in her life although she visits him regularly. He has never been to any school function of hers, tells them if they leave anything at his house it will be given to their half brother, and generally visits revolve around his needs not building a relationship with them. They claim their father's wife doesn't like them and I know she insisted on only spending $25 on thier birthdays while spending hundreds on the half brother. Thus I am not eager to share this with him and he would not be any help anyway.
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Becky
Wife of Michael(called Moo) and stay at home mom to 5 daughters between 13 months and 17
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JillD
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Visalia, California USA |
| Posts: | 949 |
| First Name: | Jill | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | heathen, EvFree, Messianic, LC-MS, Catholic 2007 |
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Posted: Fri Nov 3rd, 2006 08:05 pm |
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I tread lightly here as it's so hard to insert one's self into another family. But most of all, remain calm. I, too, have a 15-year-old daughter and they can make you crazy! I think 15 can be the absolute bottom for many girls. Ours did some crazy stuff, too, that was shocking, but we tried to talk about it, explore her mind, tried to find out what was causing her to act like that. It's hard for kids that age to open up to parents, but we just kept talking about it.
Sexuality is something new. Girls begin to realize the power that their bodies have over young males and so her experimentation may have been just that. Just a brief foray into forbidden waters to see what it was like. That may be the end of it, especially if you remain calm, let her know you know, and maybe just let it go for now.
I once listened to a speaker at a home schooling conference, Reb Bradley, who related how a hundred years ago or so there was no such thing as "teenagers." At about the age of 12, kids began to take on adult responsibilities and by the time they were 15-18 or so, they were full-fledged adults, and behaved as such. Consequently, we have tried to raise our daughters that way. Starting quite young, we gave them more and more responsibility for accepting the consequences of their actions and also for earning their keep. Very seldom do we give them money; they need to earn it. They also need to earn and keep our trust in them. Once lost, trust is very difficult to regain. They really did not want to lose that, and so, for the most part, they've made good choices.
Little by little, we must let go. I see too many parents who clamp down tight until the kid goes off to college - - and then the lid flies off and the kid goes crazy! Ask your daughter how she'd feel if grandma (or someone else she knows would be horrified) were to see her pictures. I hope her heart is still sensitive enough to say she would care about that. I'm sure it is.
But just remain calm and sensible. I'm sure she'll figure out that it wasn't a wise move. Give her the space to reach that conclusion on her own.
Advice is only worth so much....
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"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret." Ps 139
"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
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CajunRick
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Posted: Fri Nov 3rd, 2006 08:51 pm |
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I think Jill gave you excellent advice. You say she has self-esteem issues, and teenaged girls certainly have issues with the way their bodies are developing. The pictures may have been an attempt on her part to evaluate her body, to determine whether a guy would find her attractive, etc. You didn't say whether the poses were pornographic in nature but even if they were, it was probably an attempt on her part to judge herself physically.
The most important thing is to stay calm and not accusative. Attempt to have a real conversation with her, and listen to what she says. Fifteen-year old girls and their mothers are natural enemies.
I attended a parenting conference once where the speaker said most parents and kids build walls with their words and actions, where what they should really be trying to do is build bridges. When you speak to her, be very aware that what you need to do is build bridges between the two of you. Even of she has made decisions or taken actions that are abhorrent to you, you need to make sure you don't build such a wall between you that she can never return. And be absolutely certain that she knows your concerns about her acts are due to your love for her and are not an attempt to stifle her independence or freedom.
If you were "snooping" on her computer, she will have complaints about your invasion of her privacy, and those will be valid complaints. Be prepared to justify them. She is 15 and not 5, and she does have a reasonable expectation of privacy. I'm not saying what you did was wrong, but if your husband was using her computer without her permission, you may have some explaining to do. I advise all parents to always be aware of what is on their kids computers, but do it in their presence, not behind their backs. If you do it behind their backs, you will teach them that you have no respect for them at all. If you do it in their presence, you can teach them that you are concerned for their safety rather than invading their privacy.
One final thought. Don't confront. Tell her that you stumbled on them accidentally. Let her know that you're not happy about it, but you wanted to give her a chance to explain. Tell her that your concern is for her safety because you know how many men on the Internet seek pictures of pretty girls just like her and end up raping and sometimes killing them. Be concerned for her safety and her mental and physical health. And when you approach her about it, do it in those terms. And don't ever say such things as "how could you do this" or "you know better" or "this is not how we raised you".
Build bridges, not walls. Be genuinely concerned about her thoughts and feelings and safety.
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mrsbmoo
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 344 |
| First Name: | Becky | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | former Methodist. RCA, Presbyterian, Holiness, Wesleyan... Catholic as of June ... |
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Posted: Fri Nov 3rd, 2006 10:21 pm |
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Well, because there was a house fire or accident on the road to her school I was delayed by a detour long enough to miss catching her before she went to spend the night with a friend. I have been stewing on it since then but haven't talked to her.
To answer peoples' comments:
The computer she uses, used to be my husband's up until September and he needed to use it today to get a file he had left on it and because his new comuter has everything microsoft except power point and the study guide to his online class was done in power point. The computer has ME instead of XP and so every users documents are in the my documents file. He saw the thumbnails when he went to retrieve his document. So we weren't actually snooping although I try to spot check internet explorer histories now and then to see where they have been.
Strangely, although my husband was upset, he had basically the same theory as Rick and was concerned about the feelings that would drive her to do that. I thought it sounded crazy but if 3 people have basically the same theory, I will reconsider. I was just teasing my husband on the phone asking him how he found Rick's number and got their stories to agree.
Remaining calm is very much not my strong suit. She had seemed to be starting to turn around from the emotional roller coaster of the past 3 years. I feel hurt that she has done something shameful and betrayed my trust. I want to say all the things you told me not to say. I just want the problem to be gone because this kind of behavior endangers the whole family. For example, my husband is afraid that he will end up in prison for child porn because the computer was registered to him.
Anyway, I even have considered telling her to go live with her Dad, if he'll have her. I have ranted and raved a bit about this in the last few hours. My husband is very against that. He would like to see her back in counseling. We didn't find that the last counselor helped her very much although she enjoyed talking to her. The counselor did not want to keep us parents in the loop of how she was doing and how we could help. Unfortunately the available counselors that are covered by our insurance, are few, and most of those are too morally liberal for our family. The whole situation is so discouraging but if you guys have survived teens, I guess I will too.
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Becky
Wife of Michael(called Moo) and stay at home mom to 5 daughters between 13 months and 17
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SBC2RCC
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | York, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 136 |
| First Name: | Monte | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | was Southern Baptist Minister, now Roman Catholic |
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Posted: Sat Nov 4th, 2006 07:18 am |
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Dear Becky,
While I do not have extra advice, I have a 15 year old daughter. So it is that my heart and prayers go out to you now. It is really something how we share each others burdens within the church body.
Monte
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In Christ,
Monte W
(Formerly on CHN Forum as "Pilgrim Paul"
Minima Maxima Sunt
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Esther
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Bronx, New York USA |
| Posts: | 157 |
| First Name: | Esther | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Southern Baptist to Roman Catholic 11/26/06 |
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Posted: Tue Nov 7th, 2006 01:03 am |
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| May I suggest the book "Odd Girl Out" to ANYONE with a teenage (or approaching that age) girl. It doesn't give advice, but it gives SO much insight into their world and why they do some of the things they do. I can't give you any great advice about how to handle it except try and stay as calm as possible in front of her. But the youth I work with and when I was a teen, the fear of anger and disapproval is far greater then of the punishment itself. You are most definitely in my prayers.
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CajunRick
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Posted: Wed Nov 8th, 2006 02:06 am |
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Becky, if I may ask, can you give us an update? I have been concerned about your situation with your daughter and have been praying for you both.
I am particularly attuned to the needs of girls at this age. Their egos are so fragile and they can be so easily taken advantage of by selfish young men that my heart hurts for them. I have seen so many have their hearts broken by trusting the wrong person that I often give them a very private phone number in case they find themselves in need of a ride from someone they can trust late at night. Their egos are so delicate that they can easily be lost at this age, and I've seen that happen, too.
If you don't want to post publicly, please write to me privately and at least let me know you and she are OK.
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mrsbmoo
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 344 |
| First Name: | Becky | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | former Methodist. RCA, Presbyterian, Holiness, Wesleyan... Catholic as of June ... |
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Posted: Thu Nov 9th, 2006 12:02 am |
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I really believe that it was the hand of God that kept me from intercepting her Friday afternoon. I was so angry and hurt I couldn't have heard a word she said.
Saturday Morning we picked her up from her friend's work in a nearby town. My husband and I had decided that he would do the talking as I wasn't sure I could remain calm. He told her what we had found and asked her to explain herself. She indicated reasons much like you and my husband had thought and thought she had deleted the pictures. I explained how hurt and betrayed I felt after we had recently talked about this sort of thing being wrong. I was getting upset so i went into Walmart and my husband talked to her some more. She was mortified to know he had seen the pictures and was upset that she had disappointed me so that was good news. We never could make her understand that it was wrong to ever have taken the pictures.
I am often at a loss with her. She is a year ahead in school and got As and Bs on her first report card this year. She sings beautifully and composes music and poetry. She is beautiful and has long red hair and a dry sense of humor. Then on the other hand she is one of those people who thinks she can rescue "bad boys" and feels her worth is measured in how attractive boys find her. If there is one bad kid in a group, she will immediately become her best friend and loyal to the end. Because of this we tend to clamp down when she shows any interest in sexuality, she's just had such bad judgement in the past. She forgets to eat if no one fixes her a meal and has a terrible time making any decisions. My husband says she practically has "victimize me" written across her forehead. She is so eager to please anybody who shows her friendship that she is easily manipulated by people. I guess these are signs of low self-esteem.
I worry how she will manage when we are not there to protect her from herself and yet also fell like pushing her away because I feel ike I can't protect her forever. I sometimes feel like I am just trying to keep her from destroying herself until she moves out. She is my oldest and often her almost 14 year old bi-polar sister has more common sense than she does. So this crisis passes but I doubt it will be the last.
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Becky
Wife of Michael(called Moo) and stay at home mom to 5 daughters between 13 months and 17
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CajunRick
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Posted: Thu Nov 9th, 2006 01:08 am |
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mrsbmoo wrote: I explained how hurt and betrayed I felt after we had recently talked about this sort of thing being wrong. I was getting upset so i went into Walmart and my husband talked to her some more. She was mortified to know he had seen the pictures and was upset that she had disappointed me so that was good news. We never could make her understand that it was wrong to ever have taken the pictures.
If in fact the pictures were intended for her own eyes only, why it is any more wrong than looking at herself in a mirror? It shows rather poor judgment since computers are relatively easy to hack, but it would amaze you how easy it is to recover deleted files from most computers, even remotely. Teens tend to be trusting so I'm not surprised she would not even consider that someone else might view her pictures. Buy her a cheap jump drive and suggest that she keep any personal information there, and learn how to password-protect her personal information, and make sure she knows how to delete files and empty the recycle bin/trash can. Computer consultant mode off.
I am often at a loss with her. She is a year ahead in school and got As and Bs on her first report card this year. She sings beautifully and composes music and poetry. She is beautiful and has long red hair and a dry sense of humor. Then on the other hand she is one of those people who thinks she can rescue "bad boys" and feels her worth is measured in how attractive boys find her.
Sounds like a normal teenaged girl to me. We develop an image of our children's future when they are babies and they never live up to them. That's not surprising since we didn't live up to our parents' expectations either. My daughter has as close to a perfect husband as any man could ever be, and yet my wife still talks about what would have happened if she had married that other guy.
Our job as parents is not to keep them from getting hurt, it is to give them the ammunition they need to protect themselves, and then give them unconditional love when they get hurt anyway. That's what God does for us, and we need to be a model of God to our children. Don't be judgmental. Always and in all things make absolutely sure that she knows you love her, and your only motivation is concern for her welfare. Offer to volunteer with her at a crisis pregnancy center or to work with victims of abuse. If you can, get involved with CASA (Court Appointed Special Advocates) or another organization that works with victims of abuse and that will help her to see for herself that "bad boys" cannot be converted.
When you were young, you were the first teenaged girl ever to fall in love, and your parents didn't understand you. Your daughter feels the same way. You have grounded her. Now, you have to trust her.
If there is one bad kid in a group, she will immediately become her best friend and loyal to the end. Because of this we tend to clamp down when she shows any interest in sexuality, she's just had such bad judgment in the past.
She will not lose interest in sexuality. She just won't talk to you about it. Is that what you want? God created her as a sexual being, and there is nothing you can do to change it. Remember, when Mary was your daughter's age, Jesus was walking and talking!
She forgets to eat if no one fixes her a meal and has a terrible time making any decisions. My husband says she practically has "victimize me" written across her forehead. She is so eager to please anybody who shows her friendship that she is easily manipulated by people. I guess these are signs of low self-esteem.
Yes, they are. Help her to get involved in Catholic/Christian youth groups where they will be more likely to treat her as someone worthwhile in a protected atmosphere. Encourage her to attend a TEC (Teens Encounter Christ) retreat or a CLI (Catholic Leadership Institute) weekend. They will help her to develop her talents and leadership abilities. Groups such as the Girl Scouts can also be wonderful, as long as you don't live in an area where they pursue an anti-family agenda, promote birth control and abortion, etc.
I worry how she will manage when we are not there to protect her from herself and yet also fell like pushing her away because I feel ike I can't protect her forever. I sometimes feel like I am just trying to keep her from destroying herself until she moves out. She is my oldest and often her almost 14 year old bi-polar sister has more common sense than she does. So this crisis passes but I doubt it will be the last.
Did it ever occur to you that your mother had the same concerns? And when your daughter has her own teenager, she'll worry about the same things. And you know what? Most of us survive anyway.
Trust her. And let her know you trust her. But also make sure she knows you are the parent. Tell her you expect her to make mistakes, but also let her know that you will do your best to keep her from falling off the deep end. It's not because you don't trust her; it's because you love her too much to lose her.
And when you run out of ideas, PUSH: Pray Until Something Happens. And let her know you're doing it.
My dad used to always tell me I had to come home early because my mom wouldn't let him go to sleep until I was home, and he needed his rest!
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inept_apologist
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| Joined: | Sat Nov 11th, 2006 |
| Location: | USA |
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Posted: Sat Nov 11th, 2006 04:12 pm |
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I was reading through yours posts and I wanted to respond and tell you that I’m praying for both you and your daughter!
I’m a 14 year old girl…and I know that I struggle with a lot of the things that your daughter’s struggling with. I don’t think there’s a teenage girl who hasn’t. At this point, life is confusing for us because we’re no longer girls and we’re not quite yet women. Our sexuality is sort of like a novelty. We want to feel loved and accepted by the opposite sex especially...and the world tells us that the only way for that to happen is to have a perfect body (and to show it off for everyone to see). Lack of self-esteem is HUGE…I mean ENORMOUSLY HUGE because of that!!!! I know I’ve cried myself to sleep way too many times because of it (and I have no doubt that your daughter has too).
I think what your daughter needs to understand is the relationship between guys/girls. If she thinks she’s going to find approval from a guy by showing off her body…obviously, she’s not going to get it. The guy is only going to be interested in her body and not her as a person. There’s a lot of good stuff on this website: http://www.pureloveclub.com on issues like relationships/modesty/sexuality.
If you can explain that concept to her and model it in your own life and marriage...I think it might make a big difference. Don’t try to clamp down on her sexuality, help her to try and develop it PURELY.
Well, that wasn’t too eloquent, but I thought you might like to hear from the perspective of a teenage girl. 
Last edited on Sat Nov 11th, 2006 04:13 pm by inept_apologist
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CajunRick
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Posted: Sat Nov 11th, 2006 05:23 pm |
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| There is a commercial that every girl should watch. It's produced by the Campaign for Real Beauty. You'll find it here.
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JillD
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Visalia, California USA |
| Posts: | 949 |
| First Name: | Jill | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | heathen, EvFree, Messianic, LC-MS, Catholic 2007 |
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Posted: Sat Nov 11th, 2006 05:52 pm |
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What a show that was. If girls try to match their real beauty against that computer generated beauty, what hope do they have?
Frankly, I liked the girl the way she looked at the beginning: REAL.
____________________
"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret." Ps 139
"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
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BettyBoopToo
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Camas/Washougal, Washington USA |
| Posts: | 538 |
| First Name: | Betty | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Fist Baptist/Calvary Babtist/Secular Confusion/ Roman Catholic |
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Posted: Sun Nov 12th, 2006 10:06 pm |
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Becky:
I wish I had some great words of wisdom for you, But as a mother of son's, I just don't think that the problems are quite the same. I'll send some prayers your direction too.
I did want to mention someone that may be able to help though, Have you ever heard of Jason Evert? He has been on show's like "Life on the Rock" on EWTN. Jason goes all over the world speaking at high school's Cathlic and Public to teens. He and his wife have a book, audio, dvd or video for sale at Catholic Answers called "Romance without Regret" http://shop.catholic.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/cgi-local/wwwwais.exe?U+scstore+ltmf2984ff5d9e5d+configure=/u/web/shop96/merchant/swish/scstore.wcf
They also have a small booklet called "Pure Love" http://www.catholic.com/chastity/pure_love.asp
Here is a snippet off the front cover of my CA Newsletter which Jason is on the front page: In this day and age, our young people are absolutely inundated with sexual temptations. The movies and Internet are full of sexual images, Ideas, and innuendos; musicians include sexually implicit lyrics in their songs; primetime television shows portray promiscuous lifestyles as the norm; and even our government leaders have been exposed as leading immoral lives. It's little wonder that our teenagers are finding it almost impossible to stay pure and have chaste relationships. As supporter of CA, you are no doubt aware of our chastity ministry that sends popular speaker Jason Evert all over the world. With his fresh and honest approach to chastity, Jason has proven time and again that he is able to connect with modern teenagers. As one girl put it, "I've never had anyone say anything like that to me about how valuable chastity is. I've always had the 'don't have sex, you'll die' talk. Never has anyone put it in such an awesome perspective." For over six years, Jason has spoken to students about the physical and spiritual importance of leading a chaste life. Jason's talks have such an impact on his audience that he is always swarmed by students afterwards, They are anxious to share with him how his talk has changed their lives and how they have found the strength to face their faults and leave their former way of life. Often these students wait for hours after the talk, just to give Jason a few words of gratitude and share with him their past history.
I've listened to Jason speak on EWTN and have always thought If I still had teenagers that I would try to get them to the nearest location he speaks at. I've also talked with other catholic parents who've taken their teens to see him and they have been very happy and incouraged. My friend with son's, she took them and the boys were very impressed and committed themselves to chastity too. Here is a link that you can listen to one of his talks if you'd like to investigate the information before you buy a book or video. http://www.pureloveclub.com/seminars/index.php?id=5
And Becky, I just wanted to tell you one more thing. You've provided your daughter with a christian home and led her to the church, She may disappoint you and she still may make some mistakes. But because of what you've taught her about our Lord and Savior, When every thing seems to fall apart or just go wrong to her, She'll still have those tools and a relationship with Jesus that she can turn back to. And in my HO, That makes you a winner and an admirable parent. "You've done a good Job" There is no shame in that.
God Bless you and Your's, Trust me, You will survive!
Betty
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Patience
"Whenever anything disagreeable or displeasing happens to you, remember Christ crucified and be silent."
St. John of the Cross
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