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heardclarke
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| Joined: | Mon Apr 9th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 198 |
| First Name: | Lisa | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Episcopalian; confirmed RC Easter 2005 |
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Posted: Sat Sep 22nd, 2007 12:33 am |
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Hello -- I got into a sensitive conversation today at work. A friend (and fellow Catholic) said she was wanting to talk her doctor into a surgery that would result in no more kids for her and her husband.
I don't know if I handled this right, but here is what I said:
When my husband and I were Episcopalians, he had the surgery. At the time I appreciated it (2 kids under 2, postpartum depression for me). But he regrets it now, and so do I.
She asked why that was? Especially since I am now 41 and dh is 47.
I said that we really didn't think it through enough; and now that we are Catholic, we learned that this is not OK in the Church, but we thought it was no big deal at first; but our pastor said yes, it is a big deal. He said in our case we didn't know we were doing something wrong, though, so not to dwell on it. She said "Oh, well I didn't know either, so it's still OK," and I said, "Ah, but now I've told you, so you do." This was a friendly conversation, and these words were spoken with a smile on both sides.
Then she said she was having early menopause (we're about the same age) so she thinks it's medically necessary. I thought that might make a difference, and said that might be true, but didn't know what else to say.
I'm getting to be known as an unusually traditional Catholic around school, where several of the women (who were raised Catholic) make no secret of the fact that they think the Church has some very outdated traditions and/or teachings. I think they are starting to think I am weird.
I don't want to discuss this further with my friend, and I suppose she doesn't either. Did I give her enough information? My instinct tells me to leave the matter alone now before we get into an argument; we work closely together and need to remain good friends. Besides, I don't know what the rule is for that problem.
I don't want to be a wimp, but I don't want to be too critical and lose a friend. I am not afraid to talk to her some more if she asks, but I almost hope she doesn't.
Did I say the right thing? Did I back off too soon?
Lisa
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Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est.
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Credo Catholic
Member
| Joined: | Sat May 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 1268 |
| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Sat Sep 22nd, 2007 02:15 am |
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| Apparently there are a lot of catholics who just go to mass one hour a week and maybe confession once or twice a year, and that's the extent of their religious and spiritual life. They don't know church teaching, they don't watch EWTN or listen to catholic radio. They don't read anything pertaining to the church. They only hear on CNN that there's a new pope and maybe he'll finally relax the rules about contraception and ordaining women as priests. Other than a few concientous (?) cradle catholics, most of us who know the faith, the church, and why it adheres to the dogmas and doctrines, are converts who had to study the catechism as adults in order to join the church. Your friend is claiming ignorance of the ban on sterilization? It might be a medically approved surgery if she is having a problem with menopause. I think you said enough without making too forceful a point. What she does with the information will be up to her and her husband and their willingness to accept the teaching of the church. I think you have a good working knowledge of the catechism and what is allowed. If she brings the subject up again, you can gently explain why it is important for a couple to be open to life and God's will. I have found that sometimes a person wants to be told what they already know. The important thing has been for me to have a respectful attitude toward them, not to be preachy or act like it's a rule I made up, but something that the church has always taught. Last edited on Sat Sep 22nd, 2007 02:20 am by Credo Catholic
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heardclarke
Member
| Joined: | Mon Apr 9th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 198 |
| First Name: | Lisa | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Episcopalian; confirmed RC Easter 2005 |
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Posted: Sat Sep 22nd, 2007 10:13 am |
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I think you are right. My friend really didn't seem to know better. I don't think she has a bad attitude so maybe they will think it over more carefully now.
Her doctor has been saying she is too young for the surgery (whether a hysterectomy or tubal ligation, I don't know.)
I don't know what it's like to have early menopause symptoms (unless gaining weight too easily and having vicious PMS counts --LOL). So I will let it be.
Thanks for your response.
____________________
Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est.
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mrsbmoo
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 273 |
| First Name: | Becky | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | former Methodist. RCA, Presbyterian, Holiness, Wesleyan... Catholic as of June ... |
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Posted: Sat Sep 22nd, 2007 04:42 pm |
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| It would make a difference if she is having a hysterectomy due to medical issues versus having a tubal because she doesn't want more kids. If the surgery is correcting a medical issue and the inability to have more kids is a side effect, that wouldn't be wrong.(double effect?) If she is having surgery because she doesn't want to have more kids that would be wrong. A tubal would't change anything about her PMS or hormonal problems so probably it is the former. I think you did right to back off. If she brings it up again I would suggest she talk it over with her doctor and priest.
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Becky
Wife of Michael(called Moo) and stay at home mom to 5 daughters between 10 months and 17
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heardclarke
Member
| Joined: | Mon Apr 9th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 198 |
| First Name: | Lisa | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Episcopalian; confirmed RC Easter 2005 |
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Posted: Sun Sep 23rd, 2007 01:57 am |
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You know, the more I think about it, although the conversation started out referring to birth control, I believe the surgery her doctor is hesitant to perform must be a hysterectomy. Otherwise why would he say she is too young? She's in her early 40's, and lots of women have their tubes tied at that age.
I think it will not come up again, at least not at work. But thanks for posting. I am glad I did not say anything too far off the mark.
Lisa
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Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est.
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Credo Catholic
Member
| Joined: | Sat May 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 1268 |
| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Sun Sep 23rd, 2007 02:31 am |
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| I have found that whenever a situation like that comes up, when someone asks your opinion about something and it relates to teaching doctrine from the RCC, there is only a fleeting bit of time to respond. Either you are working and can't go into a long monologue, or the person doesn't want to listen for 20 minutes to a full discussion! Very rarely, you will have the right combination of time and attention, and that's when you can choose the right words and explain it in context. Too often I come away feeling like I've failed in getting across what needed to be said. Someone asked me this week what made me join the catholic church. I said (not exact words) I had lost interest in church where I was, and felt there must be something else, and I looked around and found the RCC, and began reading and studying and watching EWTN. I heard them say things about the apostles and Jesus founding his church upon the rock of Peter, and I looked it up in my Bible. I heard and the Lord's Supper being the true body and blood of Christ; I looked that up and found it. But then the phones began to ring and we had to get busy and I couldn't tell her any more. So I felt like I had not evangelized properly with this person. I guess we all want more time to explain why the church says the things it does. BTW, why would a woman need a hysterectomy for early menopause? I've never heard that before.
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