 |
| Author | Post |
|---|
MysticalRose128
Member
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 02:44 am |
|
Okay ... so I'm watching Fr. Corapi on EWTN earlier this month (LOVE him!). He's talking about confession, and making a good examination of conscience using the Ten Commandments. I'm with him all the way, until he gets to the Fifth Commandment -- and makes a statement that smoking is a mortal sin. His reasoning is that we now know so much about the harmful effects smoking has on our bodies, and he equated it with the damage that alcoholism and drug abuse has on our bodies, which he also said are mortal sins. I agree with him, and ask God for the graces to quit (and I have been successful for over 2 weeks - praise Him!!).
Here I am, thinking I'm doing great making my way back to our Lord, and WHAM -- my weight control system is deemed a mortal sin! Anyway -- I quit smoking cold turkey, thinking I am not going to be separated from Jesus because I smoke (it's bad enough being separated from humans just because I light up from time to time!).
So, like a good Catholic, I go to Confession. I explain to the priest what I described above. He shows me his pack of cigarettes, and says that what Fr. Corapi said is "his opinion".
Has anyone else run up against anything similar to this situation!? (I'm NOT going back to smoking ... I'm feeling WAY too good without it!!) Has anyone else been told that smoking is a sin?
I will be praying for all smokers and former smokers ... it's an addiction which I now know that God can help us overcome!!
Last edited on Sun Feb 24th, 2008 02:45 am by MysticalRose128
____________________
Mater Dolorosa, cause of our joy -- pray for us!
|
|
|
Credo Catholic
Member
| Joined: | Sat May 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 1268 |
| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 03:21 am |
|
Judi, first of all that's a great picture on your avatar!
About smoking, that is the one thing in my life that I think was a true miracle. As a high schooler in the '60s, I started smoking with a "cool" group of kids. It was dumb, but that was how I was at the time. I smoked for seven years, and found I couldn't quit. I would sometimes try for a day or two but it didn't work. I would wake up in the night and want a cigarette. My husband smoked too. I smoked through my first pregnancy (bad mom) until my daughter was three months old, and I got a bad case of bronchitis. I'm talking couldn't breathe bad. It was all I could do to breathe, no joke, and I had no desire to see a cigarette. I carried the leftover pack in my purse for a month, long after the bronchitis was over, thinking I would want one soon, but I was fine. I have never to this day had the smallest desire to pick up another cigarette, and I think they stink! I can't think why I didn't go back to smoking after I recovered from the bronchitis except God wanted me to be healthy and He removed the addiction, completely and painlessly. To me it was a true miracle. If you have quit this long I commend you because I know it's hard to do. Whether its a mortal sin, I would hesitate to say, because there's that "everything in moderation" thing, like we say about eating and drinking alcohol. I hope you have continued success!
|
|
|
MysticalRose128
Member
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 03:38 am |
|
Thanks for the response and encouragement, Marsha!
About your "bad mom" feelings -- hogwash!! My mother socially smoked and drank cocktails through all three of her pregancies, and all four of us (I have sisters who are twins) are just fine! No one knew back in the day what harm those beautifully packaged, sexy cancer sticks could do to us!! My mother was a wonderful mother who only did what she knew was best for us -- I'm sure you're a wonderful mom, too!!
I agree with you on "moderation", too ... I wonder if Fr. Corapi is correct, and smoking heavily could be considered a sin, how many of us would quit based on that factor alone??? Geesh ... bye-bye cigarette manufacturers!!!
It's funny ... in the early '90s, I had a terrible bout of bronchitis, which forced me to quit smoking ... and I did ... for three years! But a life-changing event cropped up, and back to it I went. I'm going to pray hard that I never, no matter what, go back to smoking again!!
Hugs to you!
Judi
____________________
Mater Dolorosa, cause of our joy -- pray for us!
|
|
|
EMarshallBuckles
Member
| Joined: | Mon Nov 19th, 2007 |
| Location: | Rockville (Near Richmond), Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 565 |
| First Name: | Marshall | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Christian Church,Episcopal Church,Baptist denomination,learning about RCC |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 04:20 am |
|
| Well, just speculating as a layperson, I tend to suspect that smoking probably is not a mortal sin. I am sure that Dave and others will render their learned opinions on this, however, my personal impression is that unless doing something somehow seperates you from God - such as someone totally into drugs who lives and breathes for their next "fix", not matter what they have to do or who they have to harm to get it - God might not be happy that you are doing that thing and may discipline you in a manner, for your own good, which would help you to turn away from that thing, however, I would not expect that God would allow you to go to hell for it. In my humble opinion, of course. I am very glad that you and Marsha have been able to stop smoking and admire you two for being able to do that (now if I could only break my addiction to caffeine and CHOCOLATE, ha, ha, Marshall said as he took another "tug' of his Diet Coke sitting nearby). That is wonderful! I respectfully applaud you both!! Also, apparently the cigarette companies, and other tobacco companies, were making a concentrated effort to try to get as many people using tobacco as possible, in past decades, so if anybody is at "fault" for tobacco use, I feel that the tobacco companies bear a large responsibility too!
|
|
|
Candlemass
Member
| Joined: | Tue May 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Hudson, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 462 |
| First Name: | Mark | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, AOG, Baptist, non - denominational, Anglican, CC for life! |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 04:42 am |
|
| I've yet to quit, never confessed it as the Church has made no statement on it being a grevious sin, alcohol abuse aside what it does to our bodies, it deludes the mind and numbs the conscience and makes other sins easier to commit. I love Fr. Corapi, but it sounds like he's heaping on undue guilt here, and judging those cut off from Christ who are not!
____________________
"For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles—when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries."--1st Peter 4:3 NKJV
|
|
|
Connie
User on Probation
| Joined: | Fri Jun 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 99 |
| First Name: | Connie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Catholic Convert from Presbyterian, then Episcopalian |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 11:13 am |
|
Hi Judi:
Leave it to Fr. Corapi to declare smoking is a "mortal sin".
Well, I do feel anything we intentionally do to harm our bodies, very well be, but I'm no authority on it, and I've never heard anything said by the Church/or the Catechism that smoking, per say is a mortal sin. :? I wouldn't worry about it too much Judi. That's awesome you quit! and the past is the past, right? Your strong will-power must only come from God that you can do this very hard thing. And that you have a desire to be pure, your body being the temple of the Holy Spirit.  Good work! No doubt you are being much kinder to your body by not smoking. And you'll feel so much better.
I wish you the best of luck!
P.S. I used to smoke too, around 4-5 a day in my younger, wilder days. But when I was pregnant the first time, never touched one since--*
____________________
~Connie~
|
|
|
Vanessa
Member
| Joined: | Tue Mar 20th, 2007 |
| Location: | United Kingdom |
| Posts: | 42 |
| First Name: | Vanessa | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Catholic, atheist, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 11:20 am |
|
When the priest comes round to visit in the evening, we keep good whisky and cigars in.
I don't know if you have experience of the islands off the north coast of Scotland. Some protestant, some Catholic, some divided. The protestant ones frown upon everything taking place on a Sunday, newspapers, cafes, local shops, ferries. The Catholics come out of Mass, pile in to the bars and restaurants and have a good old celebration of The Lords Day, of family, of life.
We think of Catholisism as a celebration of life. I certainly don't think smoking is good, but Jesus in the Bible is not talking about these kinds of habits. What do each and everyone of us do, each day, how we live our lives. Is that not so much more important?
I fear that evangalism has too far penetrated the Church in the US and it is so ingrained as not to be seen.
|
|
|
Connie
User on Probation
| Joined: | Fri Jun 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 99 |
| First Name: | Connie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Catholic Convert from Presbyterian, then Episcopalian |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 11:24 am |
|
I agree Vanessa!
____________________
~Connie~
|
|
|
Annie
Banned
| Joined: | Wed Feb 14th, 2007 |
| Location: | Columbus, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 734 |
| First Name: | Annie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nothing, Quaker, Mennonite, Presbyterian, Methodist, Anglican, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 01:22 pm |
|
| People like to declare all kinds of things mortal sins. I smoke 3-4 cigars or pipes a week and assure you it is no sin. Nicotine, like caffeine is a neurotransmitter analogue and in small doses can relieve stress, besides the aesthetic aspects of course. By Fr. Corapi's line of reasoning drinking lots of coffee would be a mortal sin too.
____________________
Annie
Ora et labora
|
|
|
LOVECC
Member
| Joined: | Fri Dec 28th, 2007 |
| Location: | Columbus, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 40 |
| First Name: | Lisa | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 01:39 pm |
|
I've heard Fr. Corapi speak on the smoking issue (don't know if it was the same speach you are referring to Judi). What I heard was that he wasn't speaking to those individuals who started smoking before we knew the harmful effects that smoking does to our bodies. He was speaking to people who in today's age are starting to smoke that are now informed as to the dangers. I would have to agree with this logic. In a way, it has a "culpability" factor. If you picked up the habit prior to having information of the dangers, you are not culpable. If you start smoking today knowing the health implications, then you are culpable because you know that you are participating in something that is harmful to your body.
Hope this helps!
|
|
|
Candlemass
Member
| Joined: | Tue May 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Hudson, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 462 |
| First Name: | Mark | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, AOG, Baptist, non - denominational, Anglican, CC for life! |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 01:48 pm |
|
LOVECC wrote: I've heard Fr. Corapi speak on the smoking issue (don't know if it was the same speach you are referring to Judi). What I heard was that he wasn't speaking to those individuals who started smoking before we knew the harmful effects that smoking does to our bodies. He was speaking to people who in today's age are starting to smoke that are now informed as to the dangers. I would have to agree with this logic. In a way, it has a "culpability" factor. If you picked up the habit prior to having information of the dangers, you are not culpable. If you start smoking today knowing the health implications, then you are culpable because you know that you are participating in something that is harmful to your body.
Hope this helps!
"If one does something that he believes is sin, to him it is sin, everything outside of faith is sin." Don't play football, it can be harmful to your body, even fatal!
____________________
"For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles—when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries."--1st Peter 4:3 NKJV
|
|
|
Candlemass
Member
| Joined: | Tue May 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Hudson, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 462 |
| First Name: | Mark | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, AOG, Baptist, non - denominational, Anglican, CC for life! |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 01:59 pm |
|
I know many, not all, who equate christianity as one who doesn't drink, smoke and chew, or run w/those that do, many whom I've seen are complainers at their job, unkind to their neighbor, gossipers, backbitters.....but praise God they gave up those evil ciggarettes and that demon alcohol! This is a classic example of straining out a gnat and swollowing a camel!
Like the sister who teaches the class I'm in, talking about some who have given up chocolate for lent but are becomming nasty in their disposition, she says go eat the chocolate and practise being kind!
Last edited on Sun Feb 24th, 2008 02:04 pm by Candlemass
____________________
"For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles—when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries."--1st Peter 4:3 NKJV
|
|
|
Annie
Banned
| Joined: | Wed Feb 14th, 2007 |
| Location: | Columbus, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 734 |
| First Name: | Annie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nothing, Quaker, Mennonite, Presbyterian, Methodist, Anglican, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 02:16 pm |
|
A journal article came across my desk that presented evidence that the amount of nicotine that I take in per week may help prevent some neurological disorders such as Parkinsonism in later life. So smoke if you got 'em (but not every day). An apple a day keeps the doctor away but 3 cigars a week are okay too. Cigarettes, however are not acceptable because you have to inhale the smoke to get the nicotine.
People are always very willing to make things out to be sinful when they may just be bad habits. Smoking may be sinful or immoral in certain circumstances. There are some acts that are morally neutral, even in a Church with all the rules that we have. There is always danger in making blanket statements that X is always sinful, Y is always not sinful.
For the record, I have given up complaining for Lent. So I smoke (with the windows open, brrrr) and think soothing thoughts.
Last edited on Sun Feb 24th, 2008 02:25 pm by Annie
____________________
Annie
Ora et labora
|
|
|
Candlemass
Member
| Joined: | Tue May 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Hudson, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 462 |
| First Name: | Mark | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, AOG, Baptist, non - denominational, Anglican, CC for life! |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 02:28 pm |
|
Annie wrote: Cigarettes, however are not acceptable because you have to inhale the smoke to get the nicotine.
Ah yes, the 'ol Bill Clinton justification, "I didn't inhale!" 
____________________
"For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles—when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries."--1st Peter 4:3 NKJV
|
|
|
Candlemass
Member
| Joined: | Tue May 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Hudson, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 462 |
| First Name: | Mark | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, AOG, Baptist, non - denominational, Anglican, CC for life! |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 02:56 pm |
|
Annie wrote:
For the record, I have given up complaining for Lent. So I smoke (with the windows open, brrrr) and think soothing thoughts.
Bah, I go out in the frozen tundra to smoke, of course I'm a man and an ex-marine, I suppose certain concessions should be made for the "weaker vessel!" 
A woman was asked if quitting smoking has changed her disposition, she replied; "Oh no, I've remained my same loving self, but I've noticed many of my friends have become quite impossible!"
____________________
"For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles—when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries."--1st Peter 4:3 NKJV
|
|
|
Kim M.
Member
| Joined: | Mon Feb 11th, 2008 |
| Location: | Georgia USA |
| Posts: | 442 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Assembly of God, Church of God, Assembly again, PCA, ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 03:39 pm |
|
Candlemass wrote: I know many, not all, who equate christianity as one who doesn't drink, smoke and chew, or run w/those that do, many whom I've seen are complainers at their job, unkind to their neighbor, gossipers, backbitters.....but praise God they gave up those evil ciggarettes and that demon alcohol! This is a classic example of straining out a gnat and swollowing a camel!
Like the sister who teaches the class I'm in, talking about some who have given up chocolate for lent but are becomming nasty in their disposition, she says go eat the chocolate and practise being kind!
Good points, Mark! 
____________________
"A joyful heart is the health of the body, but a depressed spirit dries up the bones." Proverbs 17:22
|
|
|
LOVECC
Member
| Joined: | Fri Dec 28th, 2007 |
| Location: | Columbus, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 40 |
| First Name: | Lisa | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 05:26 pm |
|
Candlemass wrote: I know many, not all, who equate christianity as one who doesn't drink, smoke and chew, or run w/those that do, many whom I've seen are complainers at their job, unkind to their neighbor, gossipers, backbitters.....but praise God they gave up those evil ciggarettes and that demon alcohol! This is a classic example of straining out a gnat and swollowing a camel!
Like the sister who teaches the class I'm in, talking about some who have given up chocolate for lent but are becomming nasty in their disposition, she says go eat the chocolate and practise being kind!
Mark - I agree wholeheartedly with everything you say here.
To clarify my earlier post, I am not judging those who smoke. I was just speaking to what I heard Fr. Corapi say, as it appears that many on this board who are smokers (I am referring to addictive smokers of cigarettes, not once in awhile smokers) picked up the habit prior to the information we have available today and therefore, I would not think that their smoking would be considered a mortal sin. However, if I, as an informed individual, were to start smoking knowing the effects that it could have on my body and also knowing the addictive qualities of smoking, I would be culpable of a sin (not sure about the mortal/venial implication, mortal seems pretty harsh given that the definition of a mortal sin is a sin which cuts off your relationship from God and I would find it hard to believe that we could end our relationship with God over a cigarette, but I am not an expert).
My father started smoking at the age of 16 having been raised by parents who both smoke. I do not believe that his soul is in danger because he continues to smoke to this day. I pray that he can be relieved of this addiction for health reasons, but I do not feel that he is harming his relationship with God because of it.
I hate to nitpick at smoking because every person has some sort of "vice" that may cause them to sin. Smokers just tend to get the bad wrap.
At the end of the day, it is God's place to judge our hearts and minds and for us to work on our own vices whatever they may be (for me it is CHOCOLATE ).
With Love,
Lisa
|
|
|
Connie
User on Probation
| Joined: | Fri Jun 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 99 |
| First Name: | Connie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Catholic Convert from Presbyterian, then Episcopalian |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 05:40 pm |
|
Annie:
You really smoke cigars or pipes?
I like the smell of them but not the taste! What do you like about it?
My husband likes nice cigars --but frankly I'm worried he'll get cancer of the mouth. My doctor growing up died of this--cancer of the mouth and tongue (had to have some of his tongue cut out) and later died young.
____________________
~Connie~
|
|
|
Candlemass
Member
| Joined: | Tue May 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Hudson, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 462 |
| First Name: | Mark | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, AOG, Baptist, non - denominational, Anglican, CC for life! |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 05:54 pm |
|
LOVECC wrote:
However, if I, as an informed individual, were to start smoking knowing the effects that it could have on my body and also knowing the addictive qualities of smoking, I would be culpable of a sin (not sure about the mortal/venial implication, mortal seems pretty harsh given that the definition of a mortal sin is a sin which cuts off your relationship from God and I would find it hard to believe that we could end our relationship with God over a cigarette, but I am not an expert).
With Love,
Lisa
Then I being fully aware of the dangers of boxing, football...., and the pemanent harm it could cause my brain, my life, would be culpable of sin, either mortal/venial. How far would you like to take this?
____________________
"For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles—when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries."--1st Peter 4:3 NKJV
|
|
|
LOVECC
Member
| Joined: | Fri Dec 28th, 2007 |
| Location: | Columbus, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 40 |
| First Name: | Lisa | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 06:58 pm |
|
Candlemass wrote: Then I being fully aware of the dangers of boxing, football...., and the pemanent harm it could cause my brain, my life, would be culpable of sin, either mortal/venial. How far would you like to take this?
You are right. Those could be sins too as those are activities that can harm yourself or others, especially boxing since the means of winning a boxing match is to beat up another person.
|
|
|
Candlemass
Member
| Joined: | Tue May 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Hudson, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 462 |
| First Name: | Mark | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, AOG, Baptist, non - denominational, Anglican, CC for life! |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 07:03 pm |
|
| Good grief! :?
____________________
"For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles—when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries."--1st Peter 4:3 NKJV
|
|
|
raising3saints
Member
| Joined: | Thu Feb 14th, 2008 |
| Location: | West Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 17 |
| First Name: | Sieglinde | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Moravian, Methodist, Presbyterian, Roman Catholic, Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 10:58 pm |
|
I'm a smoker too.....about a pack every 3-4 days. One of these days I hope to quit, but being a single parent I have a lot of stress and the cigs help manage that - I also don't smoke around my kids (I go outside). On the occasions when I have been both (a)nearly out of cigarettes and (b)nearly out of something that my children require, I have always purchased what my children need before buying cigarettes. To make them do without milk, new socks, or some other necessary so I could keep smoking is what would be sinful about smoking. IMHO.
|
|
|
MysticalRose128
Member
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 11:06 pm |
|
Wow! I'm very impressed with everyone's understanding and willingness to speak to this subject! What a group!
I will remain a "former smoker" as long as I can ... but I'm weak ... human ... and I'm sure I'll break down once in a while (probably my next social encounter involving cocktails!). I'm going to speak with my pastor about Fr. Corapi's statement, and the priest's comment/action who heard my confession, and see what the good Monsignor has to say. (He's wonderful ... I'm sure he'll support my quitting, but will also speak fairly and wisely about smoking being a mortal or even venial sin.)
For those with caffeine and chocolate additions -- YIKES!! Got them, too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm glad I've discovered Caffeine Free Diet Coke (it's really not bad, if you're already a diet cola drinker) -- thanks to my step-children!
Now ... if they can just come up with a caffeine-free, sugar-free, calorie-free, guilt-free triple layer, extra fudgy-wudgy chocolate cake --- a girl can dream, huh??
____________________
Mater Dolorosa, cause of our joy -- pray for us!
|
|
|
Candlemass
Member
| Joined: | Tue May 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Hudson, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 462 |
| First Name: | Mark | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, AOG, Baptist, non - denominational, Anglican, CC for life! |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 11:33 pm |
|
| I remember it was at the Cornerstone fest that I first heard coffee refered to as "christian crack", so I suppose smoking would be like mainlining heroin........."tonight I chase the dragon"....
____________________
"For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles—when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries."--1st Peter 4:3 NKJV
|
|
| | |
