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Truthseeker
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| Joined: | Wed Oct 4th, 2006 |
| Location: | Costa Mesa, California USA |
| Posts: | 457 |
| First Name: | Laura | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | lapsed and returned CATHOLIC!!!!!! |
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Posted: Sun Aug 31st, 2008 11:25 pm |
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Hi all-
I asked about this once in a rhetorical question when my daughter was younger and not "active". Knowing that she's active now, all of a sudden, it seems as though I am being bombarded in every conversation, with many different people, about this issue.
1. At a parent group, I talked about missing my miscarried daughter, the woman next to me talked about her son and his girlfriend contemplating an abortion - which she has no opinion on, except there's really not room for another person at her house (so, I'm assuming she's OK, one way or the other), and then the woman across the table talked about birth control being so important. I risked alienating everyone (at my first visit) by begging the woman to talk to her son about being sorry, someday, about killing his child, and to really think about it first. Thankfully, none of them ended up hating me.
2. All my teen daughters have had physicals this summer, and I have asked the doctors each time, not to offer them birth control, because of religious reasons (with my oldest, they did anyway). I have asked at each visit why they can't receive an aspirin without my permission, but someone could help them kill their baby.
3. My oldest's BF's grandmother asked if she was on birth control, and I told her "No". She said she didn't want the kids to ruin their lives with an unplanned pregnancy (how I hate that phrase), and I told her that I was more concerned about diseases. So, she said she would talk to oldest's BF - which really still has them using birth control, and I don't know the culpability difference, since it's about disease prevention, too.
4. And, I've discussed, with my daughter, that she can be honest with me, but that I would not help her with contraception nor abortion.
I know it's wrong for her to be having sex out of marriage, but I can't control that, and I don't want to help her add to that sin by adding birth control and/or abortion on top of it. I have basically told her that, in light of knowing they are active, my only rule is that she not "get rid of her babies", because that would be the saddest thing - to have her kill her child, my grandchild - or even adopt out, never to be known.
I also know that my own miscarriage - and the yearning I have for a baby in the house, also affects my view on this topic. Not that it makes me want a baby so bad that it's OK for my daughter to have one at 16. But more along the lines that, I just don't see it as the horrible evil that the whole world seems to.
I make very certain that I never discuss this stuff with or in front of my husband, because I am afraid he would be the first to drive her down to the clinic, if he knew I would accept a teen pregnancy.
Your thoughts, please.
Love, Laura
Last edited on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 12:30 am by Truthseeker
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Lord, please make my will your Will!
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Credo Catholic
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| Joined: | Sat May 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 1540 |
| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Sun Aug 31st, 2008 11:43 pm |
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| Laura, I agree with each stand you have taken. No, you can't control what your daughter is doing when she is out with her boyfriend, but as her mother you have control over when she goes out, where and with whom. At sixteen she is still very much a child, regardless of what her body is looking like. The brain of a teen is still developing, and they cannot make life decisions like an adult. Put your foot down hard, on her toes if you have to! Let her know you are in control as her parent. She will know that you love her enough to not let her ruin her life at sixteen. Not that a baby ruins anyone's life, but being sexually active at that age has a lot of physical risks, including STD's and higher risk of cervical cancer later. Get a bunch of literature about it and make your husband read it. He needs to be on the same page as you. Wow, I'm glad that stage of parenting is over for me! God bless
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Truthseeker
Member
| Joined: | Wed Oct 4th, 2006 |
| Location: | Costa Mesa, California USA |
| Posts: | 457 |
| First Name: | Laura | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | lapsed and returned CATHOLIC!!!!!! |
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Posted: Mon Sep 1st, 2008 12:35 am |
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Thanks Marsha-
My daughter has an 8pm curfew on weeknights and a 9pm on weekends. She is in a court program that limits her curfews for me. How nice is that? Still, they find their ways (although I don't think that often).
I have even told my own mother that I would rather a teen pregnancy than the alternatives. Everyone thinks I am being iiresponsible, but I am more concerned for her soul's welfare than anything else.
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Lord, please make my will your Will!
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tedjenczewski
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| Joined: | Thu May 10th, 2007 |
| Location: | Richmond, Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 345 |
| First Name: | Ted | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, Presbyterian, revert Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Sep 1st, 2008 02:20 am |
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| God bless you Laura, You are in a difficult situation. I will keep you and your daughter in my prayers. Perhaps a heart-to-heart talk about the responsibilities of parenthood and the divine purpose of marraige would be of help, starting with St Paul's instruction that the husband is the head of the household and he is to love his wife as Jesus loves His church.
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"...the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth." 1Tim 3, 15
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JillD
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Visalia, California USA |
| Posts: | 949 |
| First Name: | Jill | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | heathen, EvFree, Messianic, LC-MS, Catholic 2007 |
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Posted: Mon Sep 1st, 2008 02:29 am |
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I told my girls that if they ever got to the point where the temptation to have sex was too much, then that was the time to get married. I don't know if this was the only reason - I would hope not - but our 19 year old just got married and she was a virgin. They had dated for nearly 3 years, so I'm pretty proud of her for abstaining that long. Both our girls sort of have a rebellious attitude about it - the reverse of the 60's free love thing. People are shocked to find they haven't had sex! How very ... counter-cultural!
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"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret." Ps 139
"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
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tedjenczewski
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| Joined: | Thu May 10th, 2007 |
| Location: | Richmond, Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 345 |
| First Name: | Ted | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, Presbyterian, revert Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Sep 1st, 2008 02:37 am |
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| Jill has a good point. My wife and I were discussing this yesterday and came to the conclusion that an early marraige is preferrable to postponing it to gain financial and material wealth. In fact, when I think about it, recommending marraige to your daughter might just wake her up to reality and seriously reflect upon just who she is committing herself to for a life partner.
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"...the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth." 1Tim 3, 15
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mg57
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Connecticut USA |
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| First Name: | mg57 | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Infant Baptised Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Sep 1st, 2008 02:44 pm |
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Laura -
Because of all the strong cultural influences I also find a lack of common vocabulary when discussing these things with either young people or often even adults as well as you mentioned.
Also, because of a lack of time and / or understanding in trying to talk about these things, these Jason Evert video clips help create common points to consider and help to break down barriers.
In my work I'm fortunate to have the opportunity to spend one on one time with anywhere from 50 - 75 individuals per week, and have found these clips to be useful and worthwhile to pass along.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3oe1lK5MKw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c800q53nysw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXuH-x8r8MY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c800q53nysw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOKlBs9Tdjc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80FOpC5oKww&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMzerWewUqM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoL_i0Qizlg&feature=related
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mrsbmoo
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 344 |
| First Name: | Becky | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | former Methodist. RCA, Presbyterian, Holiness, Wesleyan... Catholic as of June ... |
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Posted: Mon Sep 1st, 2008 04:27 pm |
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Having 3 teen daughters myself, we have talked about this. My oldest even asked me which I thought was worse, getting birth control before hand in case you couldn't stop yourself from having sex or taking the chance you would have sex and get pregnant as well as what I would want her to do if she got pregnant. I told her it was better to try not to, and not be prepared to, which would be more like planning to sin and taking away some of the reason not to. I have given each of them a book on NFP to read over as I think every woman should understand her cycle and where fertility fits in.
My oldest has stated that she is not ready for a child and would give it up for adoption to a cousin of mine who husband is not able to have kids due to him having had cancer. Daughter #2 is not impressed with the boys she meets so far and has no interest in a serious boyfriend(maybe because she is homeschooled and has less peer pressure but maybe it is just her personality) and Daughter #3 is too ambitious about her future to let a guy tie her down. She wants to be the next Bill Gates. My oldest has a boyfriend who is in his 20s and is living in a tent in our yard until he leaves for the marines in October. His roommate moved out and he couldn't afford an apartment alone as well as the fact he couldn't sign a lease since he had already enlisted and knew he was leaving in a couple months. They have been very careful to be above suspicion in their behavior especially since it would mean jail time for him if they were having sex. He is 24 and she is 17. In VA, if she is under 18, there must be less than 4 calender years difference in age to have sex or he can be arrested, regardless if she consented. He is someone who was raised nominally Catholic but became loosley evangelical as a teen. He is not very well thought out on doctrine but is serious about serving God. He attends the Catholic church with us, now. My daughter and I talked about how pursuing a physical relationship with him would not be respectful or loving to him as it would endanger his future.
I just don't believe that a teen pregnancy is the total life ruiner that many people say it is. Sometimes, it is the wake up call that puts a wayward young woman's life back on track I know several people who had a baby as a late teen and have gone on to marry(someone different) and have prosperous happy lives and many more children.
____________________
Becky
Wife of Michael(called Moo) and stay at home mom to 5 daughters between 13 months and 17
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Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist
| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
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| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Evangelical (1977): Diverse Protestant Influences / Catholic in 1990 |
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Posted: Mon Sep 1st, 2008 06:55 pm |
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Education in "chastity" and all the ramifications of unmarried sex (aka fornication) is paramount. It is a proven effective method for preventing immoral sexual activity. Here are two good books on the topic:
If You Really Loved Me: 100 Questions on Dating, Relationships and Sexual Purity (Jason Evert)
Real Love: Answers to Your Questions on Dating, Marriage and the Real Meaning of Sex (Mary Beth Bonacci)
Here are some of my own papers on this topic:
Dialogue: Is Premarital Sex Wrong?
Reflections on the Tragic Results of the Sexual Revolution
Discussions About Christian Sexual Morality and Marriage With Atheists / Massive Sociological Evidence Bolsters Christian Moral Positions (+ Discussion)
Knowledge is power: in this area very much so. If teenagers are told the whole truth and have been raised in a halfway decent Christian family and kept away as much as possible from deleterious influences of peers and the media, there is great hope that they can live a Christian life in this area. It is by no means impossible or even unlikely if the environment and education has been provided for them to live it out.
Even from a non-religious perspective, when teens are informed of the statistics of what happens after teen / unmarried pregnancies, that will cause many of them to wake up to the truth and to find the strength to live according to Christian morality. If moral reasoning fails to persuade, avoidance of bad things out of self-interest will work.
Knowledge is power and a source of personal strength and resolve.
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I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
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Credo Catholic
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| Joined: | Sat May 5th, 2007 |
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Posted: Mon Sep 1st, 2008 08:20 pm |
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| This topic is getting ready to explode. I just heard on CNN that Sarah Palin's 17 yr. old daughter is 5 mos. pregnant and will be marrying the father of the child soon. Sen. McCain knew of the pregnancy when he nominated Gov. Palin. I admire and support the Palin family, as well as Sen. McCain. But the liberals are going to denounce the whole thing as a young woman being downtrodden by an unwanted pregnancy, and "if she had only had contraceptives it wouldn't have happened" sort of talk.
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Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist
| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 2169 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Evangelical (1977): Diverse Protestant Influences / Catholic in 1990 |
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Posted: Mon Sep 1st, 2008 10:47 pm |
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God gave the whole human race free will. Parents cannot always be blamed for the behavior of their children anymore than God can for the behavior of His. There is, of course, huge parental influence, but kids (esp. older teenage ones) still have free will to sin if that is the path they choose. We see this in, e.g., how siblings can be vastly (morally) different, even though they grew up in the same familial environment.
I wouldn't put it past the Democrats, though (despite this common knowledge), to play a hypocritical, illogical "hypocrisy" card, because that is standard anti-Christian tactics. Dick Cheney's daughter being a lesbian, drunken sprees of President Bush's daughter(s?), maybe Chief Justice Clarence Thomas once told an off-color joke, etc., ad nauseum. Anything goes anymore. But Bill Clinton can lie and womanize all he wants and he is immensely popular . . .
Last edited on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 10:49 pm by Dave Armstrong
____________________
I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 2000+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
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Truthseeker
Member
| Joined: | Wed Oct 4th, 2006 |
| Location: | Costa Mesa, California USA |
| Posts: | 457 |
| First Name: | Laura | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | lapsed and returned CATHOLIC!!!!!! |
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Posted: Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 07:26 am |
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The information on Palin's daughter just makes her more worth voting for, as far as I am concerned. How much more can you prove to a pro-lifer that you are pro-life?
I wish my daughter cared about the morality of unmarried sex. She doesn't see anything wrong with it. As a matter of fact, she doesn't see anything special about sex at all - so there's nothing important about it, either way. Isn't that sad? A product of the friends-with-benefits generation.
I keep trying, though.
Love, Laura
____________________
Lord, please make my will your Will!
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ChildofGod
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| Joined: | Sat Jul 12th, 2008 |
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| First Name: | Darlene | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Evangelical Christian |
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Posted: Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 04:48 pm |
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Truthseeker wrote:
I wish my daughter cared about the morality of unmarried sex. She doesn't see anything wrong with it. As a matter of fact, she doesn't see anything special about sex at all - so there's nothing important about it, either way. Isn't that sad? A product of the friends-with-benefits generation.
Laura, your daughter may have to fall very hard and suffer much pain before she learns her lesson. And what is that lesson? The same as it is for all of us. That when we rebel against our Creator, the One who knows what is best for our welfare, we will suffer dire consequences. I say this as a mother who has two children who were raised in the Christian faith, but are no longer living as Christians.
I keep trying, though.
And you must - we all must. We must pray for our children and others' children daily.
May God be with you this day and always. May you sense His presence as though you could touch the very hem of His garment. Embrace Him with all your being and He will embrace you.
Darlene
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Ali
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| Joined: | Sat Jan 6th, 2007 |
| Location: | Ohio USA |
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| First Name: | Ali | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | JW, finally fully Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 05:11 pm |
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Dave Armstrong wrote: Education in "chastity" and all the ramifications of unmarried sex (aka fornication) is paramount. . . . .
Knowledge is power: in this area very much so. . . . . . Knowledge is power and a source of personal strength and resolve.
ITA w/Dave on this point. We *need* to be open & frank with our children regarding sex. The down and dirty we are uncomfortable talking about needs to be discussed. We cannot expect a hormonally driven teen to make wise decisions in this area. They need to hear it from us before they hear (see) it from the internet or their friends.
Let her know your expectations. Whether she is Christian or not (sorry! can't remember), she has a responsibility to respect you and your rules. Don't let them be alone in your (or his) homes. No, you can't chaperone 24/7, and where there is a will there is a way, but don't give them the extra opportunity.
Define sex for her. What is acceptable to you? Heavy petting? French kissing, oral???? Let her know how dissappointed you would be in her if she continues down this path, that she is letting you down. Yeah, baby, use that Catholic guilt for all it's worth 
Teach her NFP, give her the tools to make wise, informed decisions. A while back I posted what I thought was a good book explaining this for teens in the RR forum. I did buy it and discuss it with my own dd (who is 12).
Depending on the relationship, I would also bring in the bf to continue the discussion. I did have similar ones with dss gf. Let the bf know, too, that abortion is never, ever ok in your eyes.
Keep the communication lines open. She needs some freedom. Give it to her, as she deserves, and let her make some small bad choices on her own to live with the consequences. No "I told you so" attitudes. LOL, that's a hard one!
{{{hugs}}} This is such unchartered territory for us. So much is thrown at our kids. Heck, even the cover of Cosmo magazine at the grocery store blares out "sex sex sex" in every article. It's just to much for our kids to take in.
People talke about high needs babies and toddlers. Our kids never outgrow us needing them, they just need us in different way. And teens are just as high needs as any newborn!
PM if you like to discuss further, or email alison dot butts at gmail
Ali
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Truthseeker
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| Joined: | Wed Oct 4th, 2006 |
| Location: | Costa Mesa, California USA |
| Posts: | 457 |
| First Name: | Laura | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | lapsed and returned CATHOLIC!!!!!! |
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Posted: Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 06:23 pm |
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Thanks so much!
Yes, I agree that teens need as much care as two year olds. Just as incapable of controlling themselves but with bigger consequences.
I am working very hard to be open to dialogue, able for my daughter to discuss anything without condemnation, while at the same time, being consistent in my values and expectations. Balancing on a fine wire.......
My house is tiny, so I let oldest and BF in her room, so long as the door is open (otherwise, there is nowhere for them to "not be right in the same room with me constantly" - and it is so close, I can hear them most of the time). Periodically, I pop in and say things like, "Be more sitting and less laying" (They watch movies on her bed - and sometimes with other friends, too- there'll be 3 or 4 people all lounging on the bed, and I tell them all to sit up). I allow them to do little kisses and lean against each other, but I don't allow tham to "make out" or lay all over each other. I think it's good for them to be here, because they are supervised. They have never been alone, here. I am enjoying having them around.
Love, Laura
PS- What is the title of the book?
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Lord, please make my will your Will!
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Ali
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| Location: | Ohio USA |
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| First Name: | Ali | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | JW, finally fully Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 06:35 pm |
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Truthseeker wrote:
PS- What is the title of the book?
Duh! The thread was just down a bit in this forum, lol. I thought it was somewhere else
Here's the link to the thread http://www.chnetwork.org/forums/forum47/4287.html
The name of the book is Cycle Savvy, The Smart Teens Guide to the Mysteries of Her Body. Yes, some of it may be graphic, and I did block out the section on teen sex (cause my dd is only 12, that will be a chapter for us to discuss in a few years). But overall, IMO, it's a good book with easy to understand language and frank information. $10 at Amazon.
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sewnsew
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
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| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 02:36 pm |
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| When DD asked if she and a buddy could start dating I had a frank discussiion with her(15 years) telling her that abortion was off the table and that a teen pregancny would either seriouse\ly detaour her future with work and child care instead of college or if the baby went for adoption( first choice) she would always know that she had a child out there that she would never know which has it's own sorrows. Becuase of the divisions in my extended family I would have to fight tooth and nail not to have some welll meaning relative drive her to an abortion center. As for contraception evenher dad would be driving her to the cDr for that one. The problem Sarah Palin's family may be facing as indeed in this day and age we all do is that in other times the boy and his family stepped up to the plate like it or not and abided by the girl's family wishes- now though I would be willing to bet many boys and their families would refuse to consider a teen marriage "just becuase they are pregnant" since the norm is to "live together" or not even as the numbers of single moms can attest.
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sewnsew
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| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 02:39 pm |
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| oops hit thaty send button by mistake- my dd and her boyfriend went out on a couple of group dates and then the relationship drifted back into "bubbyhood" I have told both my kids that many kids who didn't seem to have high school romances ended up coming into their own in college and early adult hood when everyone matured a little.
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sewnsew
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
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| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 02:59 pm |
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| Another issue related to teen pregnancy is that sex has become so much in our faces that society expects any "well adjusted" teen to be sexually active and our society has become anti -family ( most would deny that presumption it is so subtle)- but think about it- the overwhelming reaction to a young (18-24 year old) marriage is that somehow they are ruining their life... it used to be the norm. Also I would swear every other couple I hear talking about marriage - somewhere in the conversation " We can always divorce" will come up. Young people are strongly encouraged to "date other people before settling down to one" and that dating has the unspoken expectation of being sexually active other wise you are somehow a misfit or abnormal. Despite statistics showing otherwise most people assume that it is sensible to live together before marriage.
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