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RonRule
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Posted: Fri Mar 2nd, 2007 05:05 pm |
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Just to recap: I came into the Church this summer. My wife is a committed, practicing Reformed Baptist and not intersted in learning about Catholicism.
Naturally, my wife's pastor takes the stand that the Catholic Church is not a Christian church. Any "true Christians" within her midst could not be committed to Catholic doctrine as it preaches a false gospel, etc, and would eventually leave.
I know there probably aren't hard and fast rules about these things -- but what would you do?
If you were in my position, how many protestant activities would you go to? I dont go to their worship/preaching services -- I do go to a small group/book study thang. Which is still like pulling teeth most times to get me to go.
And then every other weekend it seems like there's something else I'm invited to, that I don't want to go to, but I usually go and smile and make small talk and over hear other conversations about how so-and-so was raised catholic, got saved...you know the drill.
1. I am very firm in my Catholic faith. There is no chance of me being sucked and leaving.
2. I have very little interest in Evangelical Protestant culture, music, preaching, ethos, doctrine, etc. It franky bores and frustrates me.
Does going show that I support my wife and her faith? Is it a good sacrifice to make for her?
Or should I stand up and not "support" all these activities? Am I just stringing these good-hearted folks along, while they pray for me and look for signs that their "witness" to me is paying off and I'm coming closer to the truth, etc.
I'm all for true Catholic ecumenism. But the Church's response to fundamentalist sects and proselytizers is not necessarily charitable dialogue.
Thanks for listening. This is half rant, half serious request for thoughts and ideas. I have read When Only One Converts...but I want some personal interaction on this.  Thanks everybody.
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AggieCatholic
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Posted: Fri Mar 2nd, 2007 06:01 pm |
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I can empathize with your situation. I was heavily involved in my old church. I even went back from time to time after I became Catholic. It can be frustrating to hear the snide comments. I suggest making time for you and your wife to do religious activities together, but I would recommend becoming involved in Catholic oriented activities as well. Join the Knights of Columbus, volunteer with St. Vincent de Paul or join the RCIA team.
Boy, do I agree with you on the evangelical protestant culture. Electric guitars and drum sets may get some folks (even Catholics) fired up for church. But, to me it just seems to fabricate the religious experience. I get so much more out of a solemn mass that is reverent. I'd take an old stone chapel lit by candlelight over a converted basketball stadium with a disco ball any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
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What part of, "Hoc est enim Corpus meum" don't you understand?
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BodRod
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Posted: Fri Mar 2nd, 2007 06:15 pm |
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I think the pastor has it backwards. It sounds to me like he is the one that is not a Christian and I suspect he is not very knowledgable about the Bible either. John 10:16 immediately came to mind when I read your posting.
May I suggest that sometime you ask your wife exactly what it is in the Catholic religion that she objects to. You may find that she objects to what she has been told by someone the RCC believes and not what the Church actually teaches. If it will help, go over the Nicene Creed concept by concept ask her which concepts she object to.
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Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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thestickman
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| First Name: | Brett | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Church of Christ, now Roman Catholic by the Grace of ... |
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Posted: Fri Mar 2nd, 2007 08:51 pm |
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Spread the Gospel wherever you can. Use words when neccessary.
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Fri Mar 2nd, 2007 10:33 pm |
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RonRule wrote:Does going show that I support my wife and her faith? Is it a good sacrifice to make for her?
It shows no support for your wife because you go unwillingly. She knows this. So why does she condone it?
Nor are you edifying her congregation by subjecting yourself to criticism and ridicule and making small talk in return. This is not sacrifice but imprudence.
The Church's response to fundamentalist sects and proselytizers is not necessarily charitable dialogue.
If they refuse to engage in dialogue or practice charity, it leaves one no choice but to walk away.
Why are you invited, and why do you feel obligated to attend? They are interested only in the success of their ideology. Their “religiosity” violates several tenets of basic Christian morality. Why should you oblige them and so legitimize their attitude?
I would suggest that you arrange your times of spousal affirmation to concentrate on person and family. It can include prayer and scripture, but should avoid sectarianism.
David
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Darlene
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Posted: Sat Mar 3rd, 2007 12:55 am |
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AggieCatholic wrote: I can empathize with your situation. I was heavily involved in my old church. I even went back from time to time after I became Catholic. It can be frustrating to hear the snide comments. I suggest making time for you and your wife to do religious activities together, but I would recommend becoming involved in Catholic oriented activities as well. Join the Knights of Columbus, volunteer with St. Vincent de Paul or join the RCIA team.
Boy, do I agree with you on the evangelical protestant culture. Electric guitars and drum sets may get some folks (even Catholics) fired up for church. But, to me it just seems to fabricate the religious experience. I get so much more out of a solemn mass that is reverent. I'd take an old stone chapel lit by candlelight over a converted basketball stadium with a disco ball any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Hmmm A.G...I wonder who you could be talkin' about there.  BTW, are they the ones with the Starbuck's Cafe in the lobby? Next, they'll be bringing in L.L. Bean, London Fog, Bill Blass, Calvin Klein, Gloria Vanderbuilt, and all the rest of the upper-crust apparel shops. One stop shopping after church. Oh, and let's not forget Wegmen's specialty food market, Sears and Carmike Movies Theaters.
Darlene
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The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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Darlene
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Posted: Sat Mar 3rd, 2007 01:16 am |
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Hello Ron,
I understand fully what you are enduring. The "once I was Catholic and religious, but now I'm saved and know Jesus Christ" comments are common in Protestant circles. My suggestion to you is that if you are going to attend Bible studies or Sunday School, give imput. Don't be obnoxious about it, but kind, allowing your words to be few, but seasoned with salt.
Since my journey toward the Catholic faith, I have "piped up" many times at the Women's Bible Study, during Sunday School, and also with one-on-one conversations. Mind you, my church does not know yet that I am on a journey toward the Catholic faith. So when I speak up, they listen and agree. That might change in their attidtudes toward me when they find out that I am journeying toward Catholicism. However, my husband knows and often times, he will support me in my comments, which is surprisingly wonderful. I think he is less of an Evangelical Fundamentalist than he would like to think. 
Do you have opportunities to minister to people on an individual basis, or are they all "gun-shy" of you at this point. (Stay away from that Catholic or he might "infect" you ) If so, look for opportunities to encourage others when you sense that someone might be open toward Catholic ideas. You wouldn't even have to mention the word Catholic, or Catholic doctrine, but could tell others what God is doing in your personal relationship with Christ. (since many don't think it is even possible for Catholics to have a "personal" relationship with Christ). As far as I am concerned, I will continue to attend Protestant Sunday School classes and perhaps some services as long as I have the opportunity to "do good to whom it is due, when it is in my power to do it."
If attending these functions with your wife is advantageous to your marriage, and not attending would bring about strife between the two of you, I would suggest that you live as the "stronger" mate and love your wife by attending. I realize that my suggestions are not in agreement with what David has said, so the decision/s you make must be according to what your conscience will allow.
Pray and ask the Holy Spirit to guide you into the truth in regard to this matter. I hope my comments have helped. I will lift you and your wife up in prayer.
Love in Christ,
Darlene
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The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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mrsbill
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Posted: Sun Mar 4th, 2007 10:18 pm |
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Wow. Boy can I relate! I just told our Baptist preacher two weeks ago that my husband was going back to the Catholic church (he was a cradle catholic, but we have attended a Baptist church for a long time) and I am going to join it, only to be told (followed by an obvious, oops did I say that out loud attitude) that Catholics aren't Christian.
We actually went back and forth over leaving yet or not leaving, since our oldest son is marrying the preacher's daughter in June, and we were attending both baptist services and Catholic masses every Sunday. It became very clear by going to both, which church truly had the presence of Jesus in it. To make matters worse with the whole situation:- We were founding members of the baptist church, the second family to join, right after the preachers.
- The majority of my family still attends there...my sons (although sadly the youngest - 19 - has pretty much quit going to church all together right now), my mother and stepfather, my brother and his family. Every weekend my mom calls to see if I am going to church. I tell her "Yeah, my new church," and she knows what I mean, but every weekend she still calls! Plus they have a LOT of extra events that I know I will be getting asked to go to, so I feel your pain...LOL!
I have been the one who handles the church bulletins and the website for years, and here I am still doing both right now, because I don't want to leave them high and dry. I have mentioned to the pastor that he needs to find someone else, but as of yet, no response back from him.
My husand keeps telling me that's mighty kind of me to take the time and spend the money to do those (they don't reimburse me for paper or ink) since according to the pastor, "I don't attend a Christian church!" Oh well!
Ron, you mentioned you don't go to services, but grudgingly attend the small group/bible study stuff. For us, for the longest time, it was the other way around. We tolerated the services/preaching, but the small ground/bible study stuff was just far too much to handle and was the place where, over the years, we would endue some sort of anti-Catholic sentiment. They seemed to really twist scripture and pull out the "one liners" from the bible in those studies so we quit going to them a while back.
Last edited on Sun Mar 4th, 2007 10:22 pm by mrsbill
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Sun Mar 4th, 2007 11:37 pm |
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Darlene wrote:I realize that my suggestions are not in agreement with what David has said, so the decision/s you make must be according to what your conscience will allow.
You are still entitled to your opinion, Darlene, and so is RonRule. He should do what he thinks best regardless of what I say.
My suggestion is just that: a suggestion to minimize the disgust and friction of living in a world which has no further meaning for him. By being specifically more attentive to his family, he accomplishes what is most important while avoiding the wider problem.
I really believe that, given the attitude of the members of the old congregation, there is nothing to be gained by hanging around. Nobody will listen to him; he will just continue to be beat up.
David
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MitchyMitch
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Posted: Mon Mar 5th, 2007 12:54 pm |
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Former IFB here.
I think your involvement should be tailored to your convictions. If you are ecumenical, then this may be an opportunity to focus on commonalities and not differences.
As for being supportive of your wife, sure, going to the church social activities with her shows support of her. I went last year to my mom's IFB church for Grandparent's Day services (will try to go as long as she is alive), and try to attend their fall festival. I feel at home since the kids are playing and the men are around a radio listening to college football. I don't think I would personally attend book clubs, seminars, or classes - but that is based on my experience in the IFB, and their "God-centered" approach is really "sect-centered" and at times extra-biblical..
Would your wife show the same support for you? Book clubs? Fish Fridays?
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Pax,
Mitch
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Darlene
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Posted: Mon Mar 5th, 2007 01:17 pm |
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David W. Emery wrote: Darlene wrote:I realize that my suggestions are not in agreement with what David has said, so the decision/s you make must be according to what your conscience will allow.
You are still entitled to your opinion, Darlene, and so is RonRule. He should do what he thinks best regardless of what I say.
My suggestion is just that: a suggestion to minimize the disgust and friction of living in a world which has no further meaning for him. By being specifically more attentive to his family, he accomplishes what is most important while avoiding the wider problem.
I really believe that, given the attitude of the members of the old congregation, there is nothing to be gained by hanging around. Nobody will listen to him; he will just continue to be beat up.
David
Dear David,
I understand what you are saying, but we never know what God is doing in peoples' hearts. Ron may be the only Catholic in some of these Protestant folks lives that they will ever truly know on a personal basis. God may and can use Ron to influence some of those folks to inquire into the Catholic faith and inspire even some to embrace the Catholic faith. With God, "all things are possible." And yes, he may get beat up, but "blessed are those who are persecuted for Christ's sake, for the glory of God rests upon them." And, "Blessed are you when men persecute you and revile you and speak evil of you on my account. Rejoice, for great is your reward in Heaven." "For so men persecuted the prophets."
You cannot say for certain that "there is nothing to be gained by hanging around." and "nobody will listen to him." The Lord used a faithful Catholic man in the Sunday School in our non-denominational church to get me thinking about the Catholic faith quite some time ago. Every week he came, and contributed. He was very brave and I thank God for sending him to our Sunday School class.
Love in Christ,
Darlene
____________________
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Mon Mar 5th, 2007 11:54 pm |
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Darlene, I never intended for my remarks to be controversial. What bothers me about your position here is that you effectively deny it in another thread, where you tell of a friend and how you were “hoping for an opportunity to talk to… my dear friend in the Lord, about my desire to become Catholic.” But your experience with her that night was that she had a heavy anti-Catholic bias and would likely not want to hear that you are looking in that direction.
You conclude: “I knew at that point I could not tell her about my journey toward the Catholic faith. My heart was so saddened by her biases against Catholics. But I have lifted her and her husband up in prayer and will continue to do so.”
This is the same thing I have recommended to RonRule. He doesn’t have to play the hero here. Realities are realities, and the people he meets at that church are not likely to accept the truth from his hand. Meanwhile, the Catholic Church tells us in her moral doctrine that our families are more important than anything we might do or attempt by way of general evangelizing. Hence my recommendation that he concentrate on building love and unity in his own family, rather than letting religious strife tear it apart.
That, to me, is something worth laying down one’s life for, especially considering how little esteem our culture has for the family.
David
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Darlene
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Posted: Wed Mar 7th, 2007 03:22 pm |
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David W. Emery wrote: Darlene, I never intended for my remarks to be controversial. Neither have I dear David, and I hope you don't take it that way. But is there not room to diagree when it is not a matter of faith and morals? What bothers me about your position here is that you effectively deny it in another thread, where you tell of a friend and how you were “hoping for an opportunity to talk to… my dear friend in the Lord, about my desire to become Catholic.” But your experience with her that night was that she had a heavy anti-Catholic bias and would likely not want to hear that you are looking in that direction.
I think you misunderstand my point in that thread. The Holy Spirit showed me that at that time, it would not be effective or appropriate to bring up my journey toward Catholicism. However, I have entrusted this matter to prayer, and do intend to speak to my friend about my journey of faith, when the time is appropriate and the Holy Spirit directs me. You conclude: “I knew at that point I could not tell her about my journey toward the Catholic faith. My heart was so saddened by her biases against Catholics. But I have lifted her and her husband up in prayer and will continue to do so.”
I think it is important and necessary for me to be a witness to the Catholic faith to my Protestant brethren. The crucial issue here is timing. Telling them at the wrong time, or when the Holy Spirit has not prepared me, would be ineffective.
This is the same thing I have recommended to RonRule. He doesn’t have to play the hero here. Realities are realities, and the people he meets at that church are not likely to accept the truth from his hand. And yet I remind you David, of the faithful Catholic man, who attended our Sunday school class every week on a regular basis. God used that Catholic man to make me, a staunch Protestant at the time, realize that Catholics are also Christians, and that they are my brothers and sisters in Christ, and that many of them do know the Bible. This faithful Catholic man, helped begin tearing down the misconceptions I had about Catholics. Meanwhile, the Catholic Church tells us in her moral doctrine that our families are more important than anything we might do or attempt by way of general evangelizing. I'm not sure what you mean by this. Where does it state that in the Catechism? Hence my recommendation that he concentrate on building love and unity in his own family, rather than letting religious strife tear it apart.
I agree with you David, that Ron should concentrate on building love and unity in his own family. As I stated in my post to Ron, "If attending these functions with your wife is advantageous to your marriage, and not attending would bring about strife between the two of you, I suggest that you live as the "stronger" mate and love your wife by attending."
That, to me, is something worth laying down one’s life for, especially considering how little esteem our culture has for the family. I agree.
In reading The Journey Home with testimonies of those who were converts to the Catholic faith, there was one case where a priest specifically told the wife, who had converted to Catholicism, to continue attending church with her Protestant husband. And so she did. It proved to be a good witness to her patience and Catholic faith. However, I'm sure there are cases which may call for different solutions. So, perhaps it is best to look at each situation on a case-by-case basis. But I think it is important and necessary that Ron have the attitude that in whatever he does, the goal is for his wife to convert to Catholicism. And he should do all in his power, according to the will of God, which would be following Catholic teaching and asking for the guidance of the Holy Spirit (as well as the counsel of a wise priest and faithful Catholics he can trust (such as you ), in order to find the best way to achieve that goal
David
Dear David, please do not take my comments as being contentious. I have an opinion. But finally, I pray that Ron will ask the guidance of the Holy Spirit in this matter and take into consideration all opinions.
Love in Christ,
Darlene
____________________
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Wed Mar 7th, 2007 04:43 pm |
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I think we are understanding each other a little better now, Darlene. We just needed a little clarification on both sides. Based on this, I will try to restate my ideas in different words.
I can agree that, where there is the viable probability of a change in attitude on the part of others, one can hope to find an opening to confide or testify at a future date. Unfortunately, the congregational situation in which RonRule finds himself does not lend itself to this. It is self-supporting in its anti-Catholicism, and I do not anticipate any members of that congregation being open to witness or wisdom within their own milieu. As it is, he is the one being isolated and pilloried.
Meanwhile, as we are agreed, the family must be fostered and edified. This is why I suggested that he direct his efforts specifically there. The church group thing, as I say, appears to be an effort by his spouse and others to pressure him back into Protestantism, and not really an acceptance of him as a human being in his own right. He is not at ease there. This is why I told him that “they are only interested in the success of their ideology,” and to that end they are violating “several tenets of basic Christian morality.”
Now you ask where in the Catechism it states that taking care of one’s family is more important than taking of society at large. As I stated, it is a moral principle. It is based on the principle of subsidiarity, to which the Catholic Church subscribes:
“The teaching of the Church has elaborated the principle of subsidiarity, according to which ‘a community of a higher order should not interfere in the internal life of a community of a lower order, depriving the latter of its functions, but rather should support it in case of need and help to co- ordinate its activity with the activities of the rest of society, always with a view to the common good’” (CCC 1883).
You will find this principle expressed in CCC 2206, 2207 and especially 2209:
“The family is a privileged community…” (2206; emphasis in the original). “The family is the original cell of social life.… Authority, stability, and a life of relationships within the family constitute the foundations for freedom, security, and fraternity within society” (2207; emphasis in the original). “Following the principle of subsidiarity, larger communities should take care not to usurp the family’s prerogatives or interfere in its life” (2209).
Here are some additional passages:
“Participation [in human society] is achieved first of all by taking charge of the areas for which one assumes personal responsibility” (1914; emphasis in the original). “The love of the spouses and the begetting of children create among members of the same family personal relationships and primordial responsibilities” (2201). “The well-being of the individual person and of both human and Christian society is closely bound up with the healthy state of conjugal and family life” (2250).
Bottom line: Is it possible that someone could be converted if RonRule continues to attend functions of his wife’s congregation? Yes. But it is not probable. It is much more likely that he will be worn down by all this pressure and forced to agree to leave the Catholic Church. Either that, or his marriage will suffer. And this is where we have differed. I believe, for the reasons stated in the Catechism, that the higher priority for him is harmony in the family. If this can be achieved simultaneously with avoidance of unpleasantries at her church, this is the optimum solution.
It may be that his wife will insist that he continue to attend functions at her church. If this is the case, I have suggested he make a non-sectarian counter-offer that has some hope of defusing the tension. Our goal is healing, not a tug of war leading to a split.
As you can see, to have as one’s primary goal to convert one’s spouse is not necessarily a good thing. It can actually destroy a fragile family. Much better to accept the spouse as who he or she is and build unity on the realities that present themselves. The harmonious and enduring marriage is, after all, the one that produces conversions.
David
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kimdyuma
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
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Posted: Wed Mar 7th, 2007 05:11 pm |
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| In my case our Episcopal church that we attended ( the kids and I belong)- My DH left his SB church at 18 and never went back- he has since our marriage come to my Episcopal church- when we visit his family we go to the SB church with his family- which we all hate- the service is a power point entertainment session much like a Christian concert. Until my FIL died a few years ago when the family visited us they would go to a local SB church and we would go as usual to our own church. Due to tithe recent and public strife within the Anglican world our local church has split with the conservative member going off to form an Anglican church under a bishop form Brazil. Since my kids were torn between the old and new I suggested that they alternate from week to week until they decided. I will be joining the RC at Easter. My husband has said that he will go where the kids go ( which is great for me) I will continue to attend our Saturday Prayers and Squares quilting group at the original Episcopal church- they know that I am leaving and while they don't understand it they say that I should follow my conscious and to please continue to come. I will also continue to help both the churches with keeping the acolyte robes clean mended etc and helping in general with kids programs. Having said all this I do pray that my family will eventually cross the Tiber with me. My husband has suggest that we split our tithe between the three churches until the kids decide where they will stay. They are 14 and 16 and so I feel that they need to make their own choice as long as they go to a church and do not join some cult like JW or LDS or one of the weirder protestant sects.
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Adopt from your local Humane Society- Please spay or neuter your pets
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Steven Barrett
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Posted: Thu Mar 8th, 2007 11:59 am |
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I wouldn't mind if my family's church would bring in LLBeans. It'd save us some gas and time from having to go up to Freeport, ME. Then again, I'd rather go to Freeport for outlet shopping with my Mrs. than to outlet church services.
And as far as I know, Bean's doesn't pump in praise and worship musak in its speaker system.
____________________
For anyone suffering from a mental illness or has a loved one with a mental illness, my book "Lead kindly Light: A Devotional For The Mentally Ill" might be of some help: http://www.lulu.com/ (Use search box at the top of page.)
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Steven Barrett
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Posted: Thu Mar 8th, 2007 12:54 pm |
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Perhaps if I shared my situation it might make things a little easier on this thread.
I'm a volunteer sexton and a few other things at the Baptist Church my wife and I joined ten years ago. A few years ago I renewed my baptismal vows at the local Newman Center. Nevertheless, that didn't affect my standing with the Baptists one iota. We kid about me being the local "papistbaptist" and how one day I'm going to bring 'em all over to the Newman Center.
Sometimes I get zinged and mostly my zinging comes from the more dedicated lapsed Catholics. They're full-time Baptists or Evangelicals. Since the church isn't a very hard core baptist church, and much more evangelical in nature, the divisions aren't so raw as in other protestant churches that hail themselves as "Bible-believing" churches, as opposed to even other more liturgical protestant denominations; much less Catholics.
Occasionally I'll get my hackles up whenever I hear people repeating some party line about Catholics not teaching the Gospel and other routine slams.
In fact, I got so sensitive about it once a f ew years ago that I decided in the interests of both the Baptists and myself, it'd be best for me to be absent during any baptisms. And I tell them flat out I'm not keen on being there in case any newly baptized person decides to include Catholic or liturgical Protestant-bashing in their testimonials.
Communion is another instance where I make a discrete duck-out. Singing the hymns and listening to the sermons and taking part in prayers (so long as they do not contradict any Catholic teachings, etc.) isn't a problem. The problem with communion is that a lot of Protestants don't understand why the Eucharist is so unique and precious to Catholics. So, many of them might take offense at our reluctance to take part. This is a wonderful teaching moment, so long as it's done with respect. Otherwise you not only upset the Protestant, but also reflect badly on Catholicism.
Manners speak louder than theological points!
On the other hand, should you find yourself stuck in an awkward situation where Catholic bashing is de-rigeur, do whatever you can to gently squeeze out of the pew and quitely walk out, but with your head held upright. Not high in an arrogant way, but upright. You don't have to endure bigotry. And we certainly don't have to pay it back with a slamming church door, however tempting that may be.
I've encountered more "anti-catholicism" during adult Sunday classes than during any service. And, most of it has been a result of the insulting person's lack of sufficient education, a desire to be a smart aleck in the presence of known Catholics or worse, a lapsed small-c "catholic's" inability to resist the temptation to show how "protestant" he or she is now by taking it out on the old church in the cheapest way possible.
Ironically enough, it was during the priest/bishops/pedophile scandals that I began to become more defensive of Catholicism and the overwhelming majority of priests and bishops who were the good guys. One time a man quipped about the unfairness of a situation we were discussing about a priest who had to give a young woman some tough love about abortion, sin and what she had to do. Well, the offending person said to the effect that there was something wrong with a situation where in one room a priest could be telling a gal she couldn't get an abortion while in another room a priest was fondling someone's kids.
Yes, this happened up in MA where the worst offenders were primarily located, especially in the Boston Archdiocese. But I said that the guy making the smart-alecky remark was way out of line and I was shaking with (controlled) anger. Later, however, I talked with the man and we settled it even amicably when he agreed that he'd gone overboard.
We don't have to take cheap-shots, innuendoes, and whatever else our detractors see fit to dispense, but we must always remember that so long as we're on their turf, even if we're fortunate enough to have belonged to protestant congregations that recognize dual memberships in other churches, Catholic or Protestant, we're still the outsiders and we need to develop thick calluses on our tongues. I'd rather that we have calluses on our tongues than our fists and hearts. After all, we don't have to darken the doors of people who offend us for the simple viscious sport of it all.
I love to give a good dig, but I try to keep it clean and in the interest of fairness, include myself in as a partial target as well.
Sorry to go on for so long, but I figured that it was a great moment for me to share some insights from a few educable moments I've had a long the way. At one time I used to get really riled up at even the smallest dig. But I soon realized that it'd be better to paraphrase a relatively clean non-ecumenical joke than to steam and stew over it. Allow me to close up with this line I heard in an Episcopal parish:
"Mommy," a kid asked his ma one day after church, "when did Jesus Christ become a Roman Catholic?"
To which I later added, "Heck, I'd like to know why Jesus' good Jewish cousin John joined the Baptists and Rome still made him a saint?"
If I can get a few yuks outta Baptists with that, anybody can!
PS: pass that joke around. otherwise the paperwork in getting it copyrighted will drive me into the home for the non-preferentially broke.
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For anyone suffering from a mental illness or has a loved one with a mental illness, my book "Lead kindly Light: A Devotional For The Mentally Ill" might be of some help: http://www.lulu.com/ (Use search box at the top of page.)
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