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CajunRick
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Posted: Tue May 8th, 2007 11:20 am |
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In case you didn't know, the conversion story of Patty Bonds, who was Marcus' guest on The Journey Home of 5/7/07, is available online at CHN. You'll find it here.
BTW, in case you didn't know, Patty's brother is James White, a rather famous (or infamous, if you prefer) anti-Catholic apologist. Her conversion was a much more painful experience than her online interview indicated.
Please take a few minutes to read her conversion story.
Last edited on Tue May 8th, 2007 11:30 am by CajunRick
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Rick Luquette
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Darlene
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Posted: Tue May 8th, 2007 03:25 pm |
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I would say that the only thing that bothered me about her testimony was her divorce, which isn't mentioned on her written conversion story. How can someone being led by Christ justify a divorce in her situation? Sorry, but it just did not sit right with me. Why not instead, seek to unite with your husband in glorifying God? Afterall, her husband even converted to the Catholic faith. How can such a divorce glorify God? This really troubled me. Just saying it like it is.
Darlene
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Tue May 8th, 2007 04:10 pm |
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Darlene, there are a number of factors that you are not considering. Patty B. outlined some of them on the program: both spouses were “wounded” early in life by abuse; their married life was not edifying because it was accentuating the scars and brokenness rather than the life in Christ that both wanted; the children were all grown.
They saw that their marriage was not based on sound principles but on misery seeking company, so they knew that it would likely be eligible for a decree of nullity. However, the Church (quite rightly, because of the inevitable consequences) requires not just a legal separation but a divorce before considering a case of nullity, so they had to go through the divorce, however friendly it may have been.
Subsequently, the decree of nullity left both free to follow their perceived vocations. Patty chose to associate herself with a formal apostolate. Both continue to be faithful Catholics and receive the sacraments regularly. I must applaud them both for making the best of a bad situation according to Christ’s mandate.
David
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CajunRick
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Posted: Tue May 8th, 2007 04:53 pm |
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Darlene wrote: I would say that the only thing that bothered me about her testimony was her divorce, which isn't mentioned on her written conversion story.
Her written story was posted quite some time ago, shortly after her conversion.
Unfortunately, divorce is sometimes necessary.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
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BettyBoopToo
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Posted: Tue May 8th, 2007 06:29 pm |
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I believe I read Ms. Bonds conversion in Marcus Grodi's book a few years ago, http://www.chresources.com/proddetail.php?prod=2522 I read all of Patrick Madrids books on conversion stories and enjoyed Marcus's book as well.
Some of these folks stories were incredibly heroic. They made my own worries & challenges I faced in a primarily baptist family "A Piece of Cake". When I read Ms. Bonds story, I had went on the internet and read some of Mr. Whites writings and his very strong dislike for the RCC, as I understood what a difficult position this family was in, I prayed for both Pattie and James that they would survive their decisions and still remain a family. It certainly had to be very painful for them both.
I can't really comment on her divorce as I don't have the facts of the matter and if the church found her marriage Null, then I trust that the circumstances made it so.
I was married very young and was blessed with a mother & Mil that neither believes in divorce, They both had serious talks with my husband & I (we were only 18) making sure we both understood that Our I do's meant forever. They both have set an example and have both been married over 50yrs so we were blessed with that also. Not everyone has those examples and they also have so many circumstances that come into play that it is just too hard to tell what the reason's are.
I set the DVR to tape the next JH program incase I miss it, as I would really like to hear her story again. Is it the original show or is it a recent interview with her? Just curious.
Thank You and God Bless
Betty
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CajunRick
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Posted: Tue May 8th, 2007 08:07 pm |
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BettyBoopToo wrote: I set the DVR to tape the next JH program incase I miss it, as I would really like to hear her story again. Is it the original show or is it a recent interview with her? Just curious.
I'm not sure just what you're asking, but the Monday night program was live at 8 PM ET. All the other broadcasts this week are repeats of the Monday night show.
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BettyBoopToo
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Posted: Wed May 9th, 2007 12:38 am |
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I'm sorry I didn't ask that very well
I did not know if it was a new episode, I thought that I'd seen in the past where a original show was re-run at a later date, Not just the weekly show replayed. I thought I had seen her on the JH about 3-4 yrs ago.
Thanks anyway
Betty
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Candlemass
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Posted: Wed May 9th, 2007 12:58 am |
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Wow, James White's sister, what's next, John MacArthur's sister?!
Divoriced people are some of the most wounded people in the world, be careful about judging them!
Is there a way to contact Patty, web site or something? This show is now my favorite show of all time, perhaps topping the Twilight Zone! 
Last edited on Wed May 9th, 2007 01:01 am by Candlemass
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Wed May 9th, 2007 01:14 am |
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This was her third appearance, Betty. Her previous appearances were in 2001 (when she converted) and 2002. Therefore, as she mentions on the program, it had been five years since her last appearance.
You can still hear any Journey Home show. EWTN posts a video (RealPlayer) here for a week. It is also available as a podcast (iTunes, high quality audio, again for a week) here. An audio file (RealPlayer) is also perpetually archived here. As you can see on the last link page, every episode ever broadcast on the Journey Home is available there, so you can go back in history and listen to any of them.
David
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brian
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Posted: Wed May 9th, 2007 04:00 am |
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Now I do not want to criticize Patty Bonds or anyone in any way. But I do want to ask my question. It seems a little bit off to me that she would be a guest on that show. I guess I can not help but wonder if she is like a trophy Catholic convert because of her brother. We all find it fascinating (self included) that James White's brother would convert. And I respect her for her decision to talk about it, and think highly of her, but I really wonder, were she not James White's sister would she really have ever been on the show? What else would she be known for?
Now from what I know her brother has treated her poorly do to this as well, and I certainly would not defend him either. But it seems weird to me that a situation like this is so public and that we would not want to advise her to stay out of the limelight, not because it is wrong to let our light shine, but because it could be seen as a lack of charity.
Similar thing with Francis Beckwith, we need to be careful not to be too proud of his conversion or being seen as rubbing it in anyone's face. We are being accused of triumphalism, and even on his blog he acknowledges that their are some uncharitable comments on both sides.
Anyway, I am not forming any conclusions, just throwing some thoughts out there that I am wondering about.
Brian
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StephenC
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Posted: Wed May 9th, 2007 07:30 am |
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| Yes it bothered me a little as well. But we cannot be too quick to judge someone for thier failings....or for falling short....we all do. She is still a great witness for Christ. Myself I have been divorced twice. So I know first hand what a marrage that is not built on a firm foundation (or any foundation) is like.
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Candlemass
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Posted: Wed May 9th, 2007 07:42 am |
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Candlemass wrote: I don't see this at all as rubbing anything in anyone's face, but rather giving others, like myself, encouragement to continue on in the journey despite opposition!
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CajunRick
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Posted: Wed May 9th, 2007 10:20 am |
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brian wrote: It seems a little bit off to me that she would be a guest on that show. I guess I can not help but wonder if she is like a trophy Catholic convert because of her brother.
Have you watched the show regularly? I don't think Marcus is at all interested in "trophy converts". He is interested in people who have "walked the walk" as an encouragement to others whose path is similar. When someone who is interested in the Church hears from someone whose life has been on a similar path, it is an encouragement. Someone like Patty Bonds is not "special" because of her brother, but because she was Baptist and became Catholic.
The only significance of her brother in her conversion is knowing that if he couldn't change her mind, maybe there's something missing in his arguments. It might convey the message to someone that she found Truth where he couldn't challenge it. And that might encourage someone to look beyond what he preaches and examine the Church more carefully.
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Rick Luquette
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Candlemass
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Posted: Wed May 9th, 2007 11:51 am |
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cajunrick wrote: brian wrote: It seems a little bit off to me that she would be a guest on that show. I guess I can not help but wonder if she is like a trophy Catholic convert because of her brother.
Have you watched the show regularly? I don't think Marcus is at all interested in "trophy converts". He is interested in people who have "walked the walk" as an encouragement to others whose path is similar. When someone who is interested in the Church hears from someone whose life has been on a similar path, it is an encouragement. Someone like Patty Bonds is not "special" because of her brother, but because she was Baptist and became Catholic.
The only significance of her brother in her conversion is knowing that if he couldn't change her mind, maybe there's something missing in his arguments. It might convey the message to someone that she found Truth where he couldn't challenge it. And that might encourage someone to look beyond what he preaches and examine the Church more carefully.
Amen and Amen! Take a close look at God's "trophies of grace" throughout sccripture, you will find sin in every one of them, yet He is not ashamed to put them on display, neither should the Church!Last edited on Wed May 9th, 2007 12:31 pm by
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CajunRick
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Posted: Wed May 9th, 2007 12:44 pm |
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Candlemass wrote: Take a close look at God's "trophies of grace" throughout sccripture, you will find sin in every one of them, yet He is not ashamed to put them on display, neither should the Church!
The Church has never sinned, but I certainly think many humans have sinned in the name of the Church. While most of those sinners have failed to publicly acknowledge their sinfulness, I think the tide turned with Vatican II, and the Church ever since has been apologizing to those who have been harmed and wounded, whether it be the Church's tacit recognition of slavery, or antisemitism, or condoned or committed atrocities, or whatever.
Indigenous people in Africa, Asia, the Americas, Australia, and other areas, have particularly deserved the apologies of the industrialized world, but I don't remember hearing apologies from anyone but the Church. Those apologies have gone a long way to improving the Church's relationship with other cultures and faiths. And today, we especially need to acknowledge our failures in dealing with clergy sex abuse.
And the first step to healing is to acknowledge failure and ask forgiveness.
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Candlemass
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Posted: Wed May 9th, 2007 01:30 pm |
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| That's what I meant, David, Abraham, Paul, Peter all sinned at times, yet God chose these people to put on display as trophies of His grace, the same way Journey Home has done with those God is bringing back to the Church, if these people on the show were all "perfect", I would not be so encouraged!
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brian
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Posted: Wed May 9th, 2007 02:55 pm |
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I am not saying that I think anything was definitely wrong with it. Just that I do not know if she would have been on the show were it not for her brother.
The show is wonderful but that does not mean I can never ask questions about their decisions or that I should assume they do everything perfect all the time. I just want to hope it speaks it's message charitably, and I have always known this to be the case. I watch it every week and it has been quite helpful to me.
Perhaps it is I who is wrong to be critical when I am the one who is wrong and in no position to make such judgments.
My only other question is if it is good for every person to be on TV talking about such personal spiritual things and as an expert. I would think it is a good thing if God were leading you to do it for the edification of others, and a bad thing if it drew too much attention to someone who was not in the right place to handle that.
I will just assume that the Holy Spirit takes care of that and that they choose their guests wisely and that God uses the show powerfully, which I can see and have experienced is the case.
Brian
Last edited on Wed May 9th, 2007 03:21 pm by brian
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Wed May 9th, 2007 03:56 pm |
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brian wrote:My only other question is if it is good for every person to be on TV talking about such personal spiritual things and as an expert.
Not every person, because not everyone is an expert. Patty Bonds does not consider herself an expert, and she was not presented as an expert. Instead, she was introduced as needing to tell “the rest of the story” surrounding her ongoing journey of faith.
That remainder was that broken souls can be healed. This was made clear in the first 10 minutes of the broadcast, and I think it is a very important point. Certainly it is not lost on the many souls who are struggling to make sense out of life, to come to a positive acceptance of God’s revealed truth, to free themselves from the quagmire of sin and psychological dysfunction. We meet some of these daily, and for the same reason, on the CHN Forum.
Furthermore, in none of her appearances has she mentioned of her brother. It has always been Marcus who brought him up, and that very briefly. In point of fact, when Patty converted, her brother’s blog carried a mention of it and accused her of being “mentally unstable,” as if that were her excuse for committing such an unspeakable deed. This program, without mentioning that fact, was about that very instability and how through the grace of God it came to be healed, not in spite of, but as a consequence of that same “unspeakable deed.”
David
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Candlemass
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Posted: Wed May 9th, 2007 05:21 pm |
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| I have no problem admitting to being mentally unstable, and I intend to use everything the Church has at her disposal for my healing, woe to him who thinks he stands on his own! Last edited on Wed May 9th, 2007 05:21 pm by Candlemass
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Katy
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Posted: Wed May 9th, 2007 09:27 pm |
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Darlene wrote: I would say that the only thing that bothered me about her testimony was her divorce, which isn't mentioned on her written conversion story. How can someone being led by Christ justify a divorce in her situation? Sorry, but it just did not sit right with me. Why not instead, seek to unite with your husband in glorifying God? Afterall, her husband even converted to the Catholic faith. How can such a divorce glorify God? This really troubled me. Just saying it like it is.
Darlene
Did you listen to the first 15 minutes of the show, Darlene? She explained her background of abuse and the effect it had on her marriage. You should not be so quick to judge others.
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brian
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Posted: Wed May 9th, 2007 11:56 pm |
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David W. Emery wrote: brian wrote:My only other question is if it is good for every person to be on TV talking about such personal spiritual things and as an expert.
Not every person, because not everyone is an expert.
At this point I was not speaking about Patty Bonds but just speaking in general about those who agree to share their life story on TV. This was a side concern, saying that we would be wise not to all seek such a spotlight unless it was clear God were using our stories in a special way and that we were able to handle this. I do think the show is good and usually the stories (including Patty's are worth sharing because they encourage us of the ways God works.
My point about Patty is not about why she was on this time, but that I still doubt were it not for her brother she never would have been on the show in the first place and none of us would know who she was, and I was slightly suspicious of this somewhat while belieiving the best about the situation and those involved. So your comment about this particular show being about healing does not necessarily answer my concern, since having her on for the third time is not a big deal to me, it is the fact that she was on the first time I am curious about. And at that, I am not saying it was wrong, or trying to be mean about it, I am just raising a concern.
Brian
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CajunRick
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Posted: Thu May 10th, 2007 12:47 am |
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brian wrote: My point about Patty is not about why she was on this time, but that I still doubt were it not for her brother she never would have been on the show in the first place and none of us would know who she was
I don't know that I can agree, given the typical guest on The Journey Home. Most do not have brothers who are anti-Catholic apologists, or any other glaring reasons for them to be on the show. They simply have a good faith story, and are willing to share it in an articulate, capable manner. Anyone may submit a conversion story to CHN, and Marcus actively seeks converts who would make good guests on his show as he travels around the country. I think Patty would have been a guest regardless of who her brother is, since she has a compelling story that is of use to others, and she is capable and articulate at relating it.
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Thu May 10th, 2007 01:03 am |
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Yes, Brian, I would agree that the initial idea of inviting Patty Bonds may have been prompted by her family relations. On the other hand, all of those who appear on the Journey Home have been suggested because of some “connection.” For instance, a person who had been prominent in a different religion, a person whose name made headlines, a person who was helped by the Coming Home Network and whose story was interesting — these are the things that promote awareness on the part of the producers of the show. For instance, when one of our forum members was invited last year, it was because he was a former Protestant minister and had been helped by CHN. They knew him, they knew his story, and they thought it would be interesting. And, as you may recall, it was.
Frankly, I do not see how the “connections” thing should be a “concern.” Networking and notoriety are the two main ways for anyone to be “discovered.” It’s just a fact of life. I’ve worked in advertising for three decades, and I am acutely aware that were it not for advertising, there would be no significant commerce and our economy would collapse.
Again, everybody is part of a database somewhere. Government could not run without it. Salesmen would have no leads. Employment opportunities would go begging. And EWTN would have no one to invite.
Finally, my comments about healing were more to the point than you realize. Patty Bonds never once mentioned her brother in any of the three interviews. When Marcus finally brought him up, you will notice that she remained silent or attempted to deflect any adverse attention on him beyond the obvious fact that she disagreed with him about Catholicism. She was intent on what her personal journey of faith could provide to those who found themselves in a similar situation. It was, and is, a journey of difficulties, mistakes and pain — but through it all shines the liberating grace of God. I believe this is something we all have a share in.
David
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brian
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Posted: Thu May 10th, 2007 01:39 am |
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Fair enough. I am satisfied.
Someone from our forum was on the show last year? Who was it? I wonder if I saw it? Is it chronicled online somewhere?
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