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CajunRick
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Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2007 08:23 pm |
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Fresno, Dec 10, 2007 / 01:23 pm (CNA).- Churches in California and Canada have decided to split from the Anglican Communion due to disagreement over how the church should minister to homosexuals and doctrinal matters.
The Diocese of San Joaquin and churches in British Columbia will instead align with the Argentinean Anglican Province of the Southern Cone.
The Episcopal Church is the U.S. province of the Anglican Communion which serves 77 million members world-wide.
The AP reports that Saturday, the Diocese of San Joaquin voted to split from the Episcopal Church because of their disagreements over the Bible and homosexuality.
The homosexual issue is not a key issue. It is a concern, but it is not the central concern,” said Reverend Van McCalister a spokesman for the diocese.
McCalister says that some in the diocese have been disgruntled for decades over the authority of scripture and the relationship to the historical church. ”Some folks have been concerned since 1955 when Bishop Pike said he no longer believed in the doctrine of the trinity, no longer believed in the resurrection, or the virgin birth, and the church was unwilling to discipline him,” said McCalister.
On Saturday, clergy and lay members from the diocese voted 173-22 to remove all references to the national church from the diocese’s constitution.
"We have leadership in the Episcopal Church that has drastically and radically changed directions," McCalister said. "They have pulled the rug out from under us. They've started teaching something very different, something very new and novel, and it's impossible for us to follow a leadership that has so drastically reinvented itself."
Those who accept homosexuality say they are guided by biblical teachings of tolerance. Those in disagreement say these relationships violate the Bible.
The diocese has decided to place itself under the authority Archbishop Gregory Venables of the Anglican Province of the Southern Cone as will two churches in British Columbia.
According to Reuters, Bishop Donald Harvey said last week he would come out of retirement to lead the conservative Canadian Anglicans and said as many as 20 congregations could split from the Canadian Anglican Church, joining the 12 that have already placed themselves under the authority of several African archbishops.Though theological debates began decades ago, Anglicans have been moving toward a worldwide schism since 2003, when the Episcopal Church consecrated the first openly gay bishop, V. Gene Robinson of New Hampshire.
The above article is reposted with permission from Catholic News Agency.
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EMarshallBuckles
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 19th, 2007 |
| Location: | Rockville (Near Richmond), Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 657 |
| First Name: | Marshall | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Christian Church,Episcopal Church,Baptist denomination,learning about RCC |
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Posted: Tue Dec 11th, 2007 03:27 am |
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| Yes, this started way before Robinson was voted in and will probably continue for quite some time to come. There are a number of splinter churches and denominations out there some of which are making every effort to be truly Christian, Gospel preaching and teaching churches and some which are, well, let's just say some which are very questionable. Who knows? Perhaps some of these people will eventually make their way into the Roman Catholic Church.
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Kent
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| Joined: | Tue Nov 6th, 2007 |
| Location: | Houston, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 4 |
| First Name: | Kent | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Baptist to Episcopal to Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Tue Dec 11th, 2007 09:52 am |
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I am one of those Episcopalians (35 years in the church) who is now on the road to conversion to Catholicism. I belive there will be more to come. For me the Episcopal church has been in a gradual decline for years starting with the revision of the prayer book, and continuing on with the ordination of women to the priesthood and then finally conclucing with the recent Robinson affair.
For awhile I dropped out of the church completely and then I felt the need to return and I did. For the last several years however I have been sitting on the fence trying to decide what I should do. I really liked the familiarity of Anglican music and rites, however something was missing. When my current Episcopal parish church selected a woman for the new rector I saw this as clear sign to me to began the process to leave. I really never looked anywhere but to the Roman Catholic Church as I believe this is the true church of Christ. I also have many friends who are Catholics who I admire by the way they live and give back to the community. In fact one of these friends is my sposor in RCIA. I am also very fortunate to live where there is an Anglican Rite Catholic parish not far from my house. They do beautiful music and services so if I ever want an Anglican yet Catholic "fix" I can have it. However I have elected to take RCIA in a Roman Rite church thinking this will give me a better overall perpective of Catholicism.
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Annie
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| Joined: | Wed Feb 14th, 2007 |
| Location: | Columbus, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 731 |
| First Name: | Annie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nothing, Quaker, Mennonite, Presbyterian, Methodist, Anglican, Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Dec 11th, 2007 10:35 am |
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Kent wrote: ...starting with the revision of the prayer book, and continuing on with the ordination of women to the priesthood and then finally conclucing with the recent Robinson affair.
It always starts with changing the words, lex orandi est lex credendi.
____________________
Annie
Ora et labora
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JasPax
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| Joined: | Wed Nov 22nd, 2006 |
| Location: | North Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 258 |
| First Name: | James | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Episcopal to Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Dec 11th, 2007 11:00 am |
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Kent wrote:
I am one of those Episcopalians (35 years in the church) who is now on the road to conversion to Catholicism. I belive there will be more to come. For me the Episcopal church has been in a gradual decline for years starting with the revision of the prayer book, and continuing on with the ordination of women to the priesthood and then finally conclucing with the recent Robinson affair.
___________________________
Hello Kent:
We have a very similar story. I left the Episcopal Church for a while after the 1979 General Convention which sped up the downward spiral.(i.e.Prayer Bk. revision, women's ordination, all property deeds removed to the Diocese, etc..)I went back after a few years because I didn't feel comfortable anywhere else. (Never though of the RC Church). But the 2003 episode was just too much and now I'm where I should have been all along.
I was recently watching one of G.K. Chesterton's "Father Brown Mysteries" on DVD and there was a great line. Father Brown was discussing the beautiful Churches and Cathedrals in England with a Church of England priest.
Father Brown remarked:
"Yes, after Henry VIII you have all the Churches, but we have the Church!"
No one could say it better than Chesterton.
God's Blessings,
____________________
James
"Abide in me, and I in you..." John 15:4
"He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him." John 6:56
RSV-2CE
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CajunRick
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Posted: Tue Dec 11th, 2007 11:32 am |
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Kent wrote: However I have elected to take RCIA in a Roman Rite church thinking this will give me a better overall perpective of Catholicism.
I understand what you mean, but for the record, Anglican Use parishes are "Roman Rite" (more correctly "Latin Rite") permitted through a special indult to use a variation of the Anglican liturgy, and a variation of the Book of Common Prayer called the Book of Divine Worship.
For some reason, Texas has the highest concentration of Anglican Use parishes, but I suspect that they will spread as the disarray in the Episcopal church continues.
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PassthePeace1
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| Joined: | Sun Jul 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Texas USA |
| Posts: | 27 |
| First Name: | Pam | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Southern Baptist, Quaker, Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Dec 13th, 2007 09:16 pm |
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CajunRick wrote: Kent wrote: However I have elected to take RCIA in a Roman Rite church thinking this will give me a better overall perpective of Catholicism.
I understand what you mean, but for the record, Anglican Use parishes are "Roman Rite" (more correctly "Latin Rite") permitted through a special indult to use a variation of the Anglican liturgy, and a variation of the Book of Common Prayer called the Book of Divine Worship.
For some reason, Texas has the highest concentration of Anglican Use parishes, but I suspect that they will spread as the disarray in the Episcopal church continues.
Sorry, for what might be a silly question. But what do you mean by the term "Anglican Use"? I have heard the term "Anglican Rite" before, do they basically mean the samething? :?
Thanks...Pam
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CajunRick
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Posted: Thu Dec 13th, 2007 10:10 pm |
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PassthePeace1 wrote: CajunRick wrote: Kent wrote: However I have elected to take RCIA in a Roman Rite church thinking this will give me a better overall perpective of Catholicism.
I understand what you mean, but for the record, Anglican Use parishes are "Roman Rite" (more correctly "Latin Rite") permitted through a special indult to use a variation of the Anglican liturgy, and a variation of the Book of Common Prayer called the Book of Divine Worship.
For some reason, Texas has the highest concentration of Anglican Use parishes, but I suspect that they will spread as the disarray in the Episcopal church continues.
Sorry, for what might be a silly question. But what do you mean by the term "Anglican Use"? I have heard the term "Anglican Rite" before, do they basically mean the samething? :?
Welcome to the forum, Pam. The only silly question is the one that doesn't get asked.
"Anglican Use" is the title of the Anglican-based liturgy at use in parishes that certain parishes are permitted to use. "Rite" in the Catholic Church means something different.
Within the Latin Rite there are several forms of liturgy (that is, the mass) allowed. There is the Ordinary Form (the Mass of Pope Paul VI), the Extraordinary Form (the Mass of Pope John XXIII), and other, more obscure forms such as Anglican Use. They are not really "rites" although that term is sometimes used improperly. It would be more correct to say there are several available forms of the Rite of the Mass, and Anglican Use is one of them. Other rites, such as the Rite of Baptism, the Rite of Christian Burial, the Rite of Confirmation, etc., also have multiple options available.
The Ordinary Form of the Mass is allowed everywhere in the Latin Church. The Extraordinary Form is also allowed everywhere under certain circumstances. Other forms are permitted only in certain dioceses or by certain religious orders, or in special parishes such as the Anglican Use parishes.
There are other rites as well. The Byzantine Rite is used in most of the Eastern Catholic Churches. They use the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, the Liturgy of St. Basil, the Liturgy of the Presanctified during Lent, and other variations. Other Eastern Churches use the Antiochene Rite, the Chaldean Rite, the Maronite Rite, etc. There is at present no "Anglican Rite" in the Catholic Church.
So "Rite" refers to a particular type of liturgy that may be used on a broad or limited basis depending on the liturgy. "Anglican Use" is one form of the Latin Rite used in what is commonly called the "Roman Catholic Church".
But let me also say that most people do not understand the distinctions. The term "Anglican Rite" may very well have been used improperly by well-meaning people, even priests. "Anglican Use" is a rather awkward name which I assume makes more sense in Latin but translates awkwardly. Still, that is what the Anglican-based liturgy is officially called. You can learn more at the Anglican Use web site, or at the web site of Our Lady of the Atonement
Clear as mud?
Last edited on Thu Dec 13th, 2007 10:19 pm by
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PassthePeace1
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| Joined: | Sun Jul 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Texas USA |
| Posts: | 27 |
| First Name: | Pam | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Southern Baptist, Quaker, Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Dec 13th, 2007 11:34 pm |
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CajunRick wrote: PassthePeace1 wrote: CajunRick wrote: Kent wrote: However I have elected to take RCIA in a Roman Rite church thinking this will give me a better overall perpective of Catholicism.
I understand what you mean, but for the record, Anglican Use parishes are "Roman Rite" (more correctly "Latin Rite") permitted through a special indult to use a variation of the Anglican liturgy, and a variation of the Book of Common Prayer called the Book of Divine Worship.
For some reason, Texas has the highest concentration of Anglican Use parishes, but I suspect that they will spread as the disarray in the Episcopal church continues.
Sorry, for what might be a silly question. But what do you mean by the term "Anglican Use"? I have heard the term "Anglican Rite" before, do they basically mean the samething? :?
Welcome to the forum, Pam. The only silly question is the one that doesn't get asked.
Thanks, and thanks for answering my question. BTW, then I am full of silly questions, because I almost never ask...
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f8f8f8"
"Anglican Use" is the title of the Anglican-based liturgy at use in parishes that certain parishes are permitted to use. "Rite" in the Catholic Church means something different.
Within the Latin Rite there are several forms of liturgy (that is, the mass) allowed. There is the Ordinary Form (the Mass of Pope Paul VI), the Extraordinary Form (the Mass of Pope John XXIII), and other, more obscure forms such as Anglican Use. They are not really "rites" although that term is sometimes used improperly. It would be more correct to say there are several available forms of the Rite of the Mass, and Anglican Use is one of them. Other rites, such as the Rite of Baptism, the Rite of Christian Burial, the Rite of Confirmation, etc., also have multiple options available.
The Ordinary Form of the Mass is allowed everywhere in the Latin Church. The Extraordinary Form is also allowed everywhere under certain circumstances. Other forms are permitted only in certain dioceses or by certain religious orders, or in special parishes such as the Anglican Use parishes.
There are other rites as well. The Byzantine Rite is used in most of the Eastern Catholic Churches. They use the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, the Liturgy of St. Basil, the Liturgy of the Presanctified during Lent, and other variations. Other Eastern Churches use the Antiochene Rite, the Chaldean Rite, the Maronite Rite, etc. There is at present no "Anglican Rite" in the Catholic Church.
So "Rite" refers to a particular type of liturgy that may be used on a broad or limited basis depending on the liturgy. "Anglican Use" is one form of the Latin Rite used in what is commonly called the "Roman Catholic Church".
But let me also say that most people do not understand the distinctions. The term "Anglican Rite" may very well have been used improperly by well-meaning people, even priests. "Anglican Use" is a rather awkward name which I assume makes more sense in Latin but translates awkwardly. Still, that is what the Anglican-based liturgy is officially called. You can learn more at the Anglican Use web site, or at the web site of Our Lady of the Atonement
Clear as mud?
I think I got it...lol...thanks.....Pam
P.S. Is there a directory to Anglican Use Catholic Parishes...wondering if there is one in the North Texas area?
Last edited on Thu Dec 13th, 2007 11:36 pm by PassthePeace1
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CajunRick
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Posted: Fri Dec 14th, 2007 01:11 am |
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PassthePeace1 wrote: P.S. Is there a directory to Anglican Use Catholic Parishes...wondering if there is one in the North Texas area?
There are more in Texas than anywhere else. You'll find a directory at http://www.anglicanuse.org.
BTW, if you'd like to read more about the special provision by which Anglican/Episcopal priests can sometimes be ordained as Catholic priests, visit the Pastoral Provision web site. (Sometimes ministers of other faiths can be ordained through the Pastoral Provision as well.) Several of our members are former clergy of other faiths; a few are former Anglican/Episcopal priests, and at least one has been ordained to the Catholic priesthood.
As for you asking more questions, we'll look forward to them. But if you want to keep me happy, be sure to ask them in appropriate threads, or start a new topic. The Cajun goes on the warpath when threads go off topic (unless, of course, I'm the one taking it off-topic in the first place. But I've been known to fuss at myself as well.)
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