 |
| Author | Post |
|---|
CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5101 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Dec 15th, 2007 11:55 am |
|
VATICAN CITY, DEC 14, 2007 (VIS) - A "Doctrinal Note on some aspects of evangelization" prepared by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith was made public today. Accompanying the publication is an English-language summary outlining the main points of the new document. Extracts from the summary are given below:
"The Doctrinal Note is devoted principally to an exposition of the Catholic Church's understanding of the Christian mission of evangelization, which is to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ," the summary begins.
"Today there is 'a growing confusion' about the Church's missionary mandate. Some think 'that any attempt to convince others on religious matters is a limitation of their freedom,' suggesting that it is enough to invite people 'to act according to their consciences,' or to 'become more human or more faithful to their own religion,' or 'to build communities which strive for justice, freedom, peace and solidarity,' without aiming at their conversion to Christ and to the Catholic faith.
"Others have argued that conversion to Christ should not be promoted because it is possible for people to be saved without explicit faith in Christ or formal incorporation in the Church."
Considering certain "anthropological implications" the document observes that "while some forms of agnosticism and relativism deny the human capacity for truth, in fact human freedom cannot be separated from its reference to truth."
"This search for truth cannot be accomplished entirely on one's own, but inevitably involves help from others and trust in knowledge that one receives from others. Thus, teaching and entering into dialogue to lead someone in freedom to know and to love Christ is not inappropriate encroachment on human freedom, 'but rather a legitimate endeavor and a service capable of making human relationships more fruitful'."
"Through evangelization, cultures are positively affected by the truth of the Gospel. Likewise, through evangelization, members of the Catholic Church open themselves to receiving the gifts of other traditions and cultures."
"Any approach to dialogue such as coercion or improper enticement that fails to respect the dignity and religious freedom of the partners in that dialogue has no place in Christian evangelization."
Going on to examine "some ecclesiological implications," the summary affirms that "for Christian evangelization, 'the incorporation of new members into the Church is not the expansion of a power-group, but rather entrance into the network of friendship with Christ which connects heaven and earth, different continents and ages'."
"The Doctrinal Note cites the Vatican Council II's 'Pastoral Constitution on the Church in the Modern World' (Gaudium et Spes) to say that respect for religious freedom and its promotion 'must not in any way make us indifferent towards truth and goodness. Indeed, love impels the followers of Christ to proclaim to all the truth which saves'."
Finally, on the subject of "ecumenical implications," the document "points out the important role of ecumenism in the Church's mission of evangelization. Christian divisions can seriously compromise the credibility of the Church's evangelizing mission."
"When Catholic evangelization takes place in a country where other Christians live, Catholics must take care to carry out their mission with 'both true respect for the tradition and spiritual riches of such countries as well as a sincere spirit of cooperation.' Evangelization proceeds by dialogue, not proselytism."
The above article is reposted with permission of the Vatican Information Service.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
|
|
|
brian
Member
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 746 |
| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Dec 15th, 2007 11:18 pm |
|
I love the way this is worded. I think it answers a lot of fears that I and some others may have had when investigating Catholicism. I think that some of the teachings or explanatons that have been used (and misunderstood perhaps) in the somewhat recent past have led some to go too far in some directions. I think that a lot of what I have seen recently from the Church are attempts to clarify or get things back in perspective. I hope that the mentality of this document reaches deep into parishes throughout the world and people feel an emphasis on the importance of evangelizing and sepaking the truth in love.
As an evangelical there was so much emphasis on wanting to share the good saving news of Jesus Christ with others, and it did a lot of good. I would like to see this same desire to help others know Jesus be a also emphasized in the Catholic Church as well. Although, for the record as mentioned on the journey home, the Catholic Church always has believed in this and has indeed gone all over the world to spread our faith. So, I do not exactly doubt that the Cathlic Church ever stopped being all about evangelization, I just think sometimes certain things were said or misunderstood that have seemed to de-emphasized its importance or almost discouraged it. Maybe that was not the intention, but sometimes seemingly a result.
I feel confident that we are headed in good directions. I look forward to seeing what else happens and I feel joy to be under the leadership we are under and the apostolic authority that it carries. Since we are always sinners there will always be room for improvement, but it is good to know that we have the Holy Spirit to clean us up and push us toward the path we need to go.
|
|
|
GoFisher
Member
| Joined: | Mon Dec 18th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 111 |
| First Name: | Kathy | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Mth Cng Prs UM sang@RC Ep UM (MDiv) Word-Faith Charismatic-RC |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 22nd, 2008 01:34 am |
|
It sounds good at the beginning, but not at the end. You and St. Jonah (of big fish sent to send him the right way - acclaim) know we need to take the whole counsel of God, not just a few verses.
It seems that if you are not going in "THE WAY" Jesus sent Pope Peter I and the apostles, then you are not yet going the right way.
Our Lord Jesus is NOT that wishy-washy, nor lukewarm. He said, GO YE and make disciples. and I AM THE WAY, The Truth, and The Life, NO MAN proceeds to The Father EXCEPT through Me.
Note from Dave Armstrong: I didn't change any of Kathy's own words (it says I edited this post). Apparently, I mistakenly selected "edit" instead of "reply" (which has never happened before). This post is how it originally was posted by Kathy. Sorry for the inadvertent mistake.Last edited on Thu Apr 24th, 2008 07:55 pm by Dave Armstrong
____________________
Love, hear + obey God: go fish! (me)
+ The Word became flesh... (St. John 1:14)
Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. (St. Jerome)
+ Follow Me... fishers of men. (St. Matthew quotes The Lord Jesus)
|
|
|
Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist
| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 1438 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Evangelical "Jesus Freak" (Arminian) / "Lewisian Schaefferite" / Catholic |
| Status: |
Online
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 24th, 2008 07:53 pm |
|
It sounds good at the beginning, but not at the end. You and St. Jonah (of big fish sent to send him the right way - acclaim) know we need to take the whole counsel of God, not just a few verses.
It's unclear to me what you are disagreeing with. Are you taking issue with such an official document from the Vatican? If so, why, and (on a deeper level) on what basis do you feel you can and should dissent from it?
It seems that if you are not going in "THE WAY" Jesus sent Pope Peter I and the apostles, then you are not yet going the right way.
Our Lord Jesus is NOT that wishy-washy, nor lukewarm. He said, GO YE and make disciples. and I AM THE WAY, The Truth, and The Life, NO MAN proceeds to The Father EXCEPT through Me.
Again, it is difficult to ascertain what it is you object to. The document seems perfectly acceptable to me, and I have been an evangelist and apologist for 27 years, as a Protestant and as a Catholic.
Are you accusing the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith of being "wishy-washy" and "lukewarm"? Perhaps I have misunderstood your meaning . . .
____________________
I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 1900+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
|
|
|
GoFisher
Member
| Joined: | Mon Dec 18th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 111 |
| First Name: | Kathy | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Mth Cng Prs UM sang@RC Ep UM (MDiv) Word-Faith Charismatic-RC |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 24th, 2008 08:25 pm |
|
http://www.catholicprimer.org/obrien/
see this cool website. (above)
 you are right, I did NOT object to the whole document, but only the very last phrase.
I believe in evangelism at all costs, even and especially, my own life, and at the cost of being single, and of not being loved by secular-ists after having boldly witnessed to them for a while. Here is an example from an ecumenical singles site.
Sometimes, you really do need to "bop" folks on the head with the Truth that only ONE Truth can be True. (John 1:14, for e.g.)
Actually, one mentor who really likes me and enjoys my company still thinks he can go to heaven TWO ways: through Jesus AND M...d. That means, he does not yet know Who The LORD and Creator IS.
Here is a note to/from a protestant who appears to be anti-Catholic.
Hi Bill,
Despite being a pastor, teacher, and evangelist, I became Catholic only because GOD TOLD ME to do so, even though He has kept the reason a mystery even up to now. I also discovered that I was NOT "protesting" anything. 
You can read this website for research on various things.
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/index.html
I asked that same question during RCIA. All of the priests and DREs that I spoke with say this: they do NOT worship Mary, they venerate and honor Mary. Statues of saints are not idols, but are like having PHOTOS of your relatives in your house or on your desk.
Instead of grilling me, you should ask an RCIA teacher that (Director of Religious Education) at your nearest Catholic Church.
Otherwise, you will have to do that research for yourself.
Here are a few resources to help you.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__P21.HTM
1 [1-17] The precise division of these precepts into "ten commandments" is somewhat uncertain. Traditionally among Catholics ⇒ Exodus 20:1-6 is considered as only one commandment, and ⇒ Exodus 20:17 as two. Cf ⇒ Deut 5:6-21.
I was not yet Catholic when I went to seminary and served as a pastor. My M.Div. is NOT really a full theology degree because it was only at a non-Catholic school.
I became Catholic only because GOD TOLD ME to do so, even though He has kept the reason a mystery even up to now.
Apr 22, 7:40PM Hi Kathy, Thank you for a copy of the Pope’s speeches. You said you received a Master of Divinity Degree so maybe you can answer a question for me. Why does the Catholic Church blatantly ignore and violate the Second Commandment of God? Please read Exodus 20: 4, 5 & 23; Deuteronomy 4: 15, (16)—19; Deuteronomy 5: 8, 9; 1 Corinthians 6: 9; Galatians 5: 20; Hebrews 13: 8, 9; Revelation 21: 8; Deuteronomy 4: 2; Revelation 22: 18 & 19. Bill
Last edited on Thu Apr 24th, 2008 08:30 pm by GoFisher
____________________
Love, hear + obey God: go fish! (me)
+ The Word became flesh... (St. John 1:14)
Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. (St. Jerome)
+ Follow Me... fishers of men. (St. Matthew quotes The Lord Jesus)
|
|
|
BD
Member
| Joined: | Wed Mar 26th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 46 |
| First Name: | Brett | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Non-denominational evangelical, Mennonite (Anabaptist), now Evangelical-Anabapti-catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 24th, 2008 08:31 pm |
|
Go Fisher, I was wondering if it was the last paragraph that concerned you, the one emphasizing how the Church must take care to carry out its mission with respect for the host country and its traditions. I can imagine how that might sound wishy-washy. In general, however, I think it speaks a great truth.
When the "iron curtain" fell, I know Orthodox Christians in the former Soviet Union found themselves to be targets of proslytism by evangelical protestants who thought that they were bringing Christianity to those territories for the first time. These protestant preachers came to a pagan land full of atheists, in their minds, and in the process disavowed the deep roots of faith that had sustained people through decades of tyrrany. I can't imagine how deeply insulting that would be! In this type of context, this document advises respect and a spirit of cooperation that, in my mind, ought not be of too great a concern. In fact, it speaks to Christian charity!
I think it good to let John Paul II have a word (from Redemptoris Missio): On her part. the Church addresses people with full respect for their freedom. Her mission does not restrict freedom but rather promotes it. The Church proposes; she imposes nothing. She respects individuals and cultures, and she honors the sanctuary of conscience. To those who for various reasons oppose missionary activity, the Church repeats: Open the doors to Christ! Last edited on Thu Apr 24th, 2008 08:39 pm by BD
____________________
Non abbiate paura!
|
|
|
Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist
| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 1438 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Evangelical "Jesus Freak" (Arminian) / "Lewisian Schaefferite" / Catholic |
| Status: |
Online
|
|
Posted: Thu Apr 24th, 2008 08:42 pm |
|
So you didn't like this part?:
"When Catholic evangelization takes place in a country where other Christians live, Catholics must take care to carry out their mission with 'both true respect for the tradition and spiritual riches of such countries as well as a sincere spirit of cooperation.' Evangelization proceeds by dialogue, not proselytism."
I see nothing wrong whatsoever with this. It's certainly the way I try to go about my own apostolate of apologetics and evangelism. We see it exemplified, for example, in St. Paul's evangelization of the Athenians on Mars Hill (Acts 17). He looks for common ground with those he is talking to (according to his description of "being all things to all people" -- 1 Cor 9:19-23). He builds bridges. He doesn't come on like gangbusters, assuming everyone is an evil rebel.
Rather, he views them as sincerely pious but ignorant, and needing to be informed. He compliments them for being religious and acknowledging an "unknown god" (without sanctioning idolatry); then he utilizes that common ground to share with them the One True God Who has revealed Himself. He cited pagan poets and philosophers.
So the Church in this document is simply following the Pauline method and advice. He was a pretty effective evangelist, I'm sure you'd agree. 
The difficult task is to be bold while not being needlessly offensive. Sometimes people will be offended no matter how nice and accommodating we are: as much as we can be without compromise. They rejected Jesus, and we know He did not sin in giving His message. But we can be guilty of bad presentation, too (I've been guilty of this many times, myself). That's the balance: boldness, YES!, but with tolerance, love, and understanding of the beliefs and needs of our particular hearers.
I think that is a lot of what this document was seeking to convey in this section.
____________________
I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 1900+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
|
|
|
GoFisher
Member
| Joined: | Mon Dec 18th, 2006 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 111 |
| First Name: | Kathy | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Mth Cng Prs UM sang@RC Ep UM (MDiv) Word-Faith Charismatic-RC |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Apr 26th, 2008 01:08 am |
|
I merely objected to the very last word: pr---sm. Obviously, every evangelist should hear and obey The Holy Spirit on how to reach each person at the time. For e.g., my witness and worship at synagogues is different than it is for folks who do not even think there is any God who created them.
There is a hierachy of faith studied in missions classes at seminary where we learned about where each person's walk of faith would be on a ladder of faith, and learned that there are tools in each society that folks can tie into to preach The Gospel. For e.g., the I think the word for flood in Chinese looks like a drawing of Noah's ARK.
However, you can be more bold with folks who claim to be Catholic, and/or Christian but who do not practice The Faith. Last year, a third of the congregants left Mass during the homily when the priest told them they cannot separate their political and religious life, and still claim to be Catholic. Hallelujah!
St. Pedro de San José Betancur: In 1655 he joined the Secular Franciscan Order. Three years later he opened a hospital for the convalescent poor; a shelter for the homeless and a school for the poor soon followed. Not wanting to neglect the rich of Guatemala City, Pedro began walking through their part of town ringing a bell and inviting them to repent.
St. Louis Mary de Montfort: Like Mary, Louis experienced challenges in his efforts to follow Jesus. Opposed at times in his preaching and in his other ministries, Louis knew with St. Paul, “Neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who causes the growth” (1 Corinthians 3:7). Any attempt to succeed by worldly standards runs the risk of betraying the Good News of Jesus.
St. Pius V (1504-1572): This is the pope whose job was to implement the historic Council of Trent. If we think recent popes have had difficulties in implementing Vatican Council II, Pius V had even greater problems after that historic council more than four centuries ago.
During his papacy (1566-1572), Pius V was faced with the almost overwhelming responsibility of getting a shattered and scattered Church back on its feet. The family of God had been shaken by corruption, by the Reformation, by the constant threat of Turkish invasion and by the bloody bickering of the young nation-states. In 1545 a previous pope convened the Council of Trent in an attempt to deal with all these pressing problems. Off and on over 18 years, the Church Fathers discussed, condemned, affirmed and decided upon a course of action. The Council closed in 1563.]
Pius V was elected in 1566 and was charged with the task of implementing the sweeping reforms called for by the Council. He ordered the founding of seminaries for the proper training of priests. He published a new missal, a new breviary, a new catechism and established the Confraternity of Christian Doctrine (CCD) classes for the young. Pius zealously enforced legislation against abuses in the Church. He patiently served the sick and the poor by building hospitals, providing food for the hungry and giving money customarily used for the papal banquets to poor Roman converts. His decision to keep wearing his Dominican habit led to the custom of the pope wearing a white cassock.]
In striving to reform both Church and state, Pius encountered vehement opposition from England's Queen Elizabeth and the Roman Emperor Maximilian II. Problems in France and in the Netherlands also hindered Pius's hopes for a Europe united against the Turks. Only at the last minute was he able to organize a fleet which won a decisive victory in the Gulf of Lepanto, off Greece, on October 7, 1571.]
Pius's ceaseless papal quest for a renewal of the Church was grounded in his personal life as a Dominican friar. He spent long hours with his God in prayer, fasted rigorously, deprived himself of many customary papal luxuries and faithfully observed the Dominican Rule and its spirit.]
(from SAINT FOR THE DAY SITE)
St Catherine of Siena: Catherine spent the last two years of her life in Rome, in prayer and pleading on behalf of the cause of Urban VI and the unity of the Church.
Last edited on Sat Apr 26th, 2008 01:34 am by GoFisher
____________________
Love, hear + obey God: go fish! (me)
+ The Word became flesh... (St. John 1:14)
Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. (St. Jerome)
+ Follow Me... fishers of men. (St. Matthew quotes The Lord Jesus)
|
|
|
Current time is 05:39 am | |
|
|
|
|
|
