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Steven Barrett
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Posted: Tue Apr 1st, 2008 01:07 pm |
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What? We're no longer the biggest faith on the planet?
No problem when you're the smartest and the only one founded by the Creator's Son. Let the Muslims pass us (for a while). We have them right where we want them: where we can see them now. Thanks to Sharia and a very backwards approach towards family life, Islam is THE "keep 'em barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen" faith. And oh, yes, it also condones wife beating.
Now, how does a faith grow this fast in these times without a lot less mental and spiritual persuasion. It resorts to its final card in the deck: a lot more muscle and bone!
____________________
James Michael Curley to a young Thomas “Tip” O’Neill -- “Son, it’s nice to be important, but it’s more important to be nice.”
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Tue Apr 1st, 2008 02:47 pm |
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This is a misleading statistic. Yes, there are now more Muslims of all stripes than there are Catholic Christians on the face of the earth. However, if you compare apples with apples, a much more favorable scenario emerges.
Just as Christianity is divided amongst thousands of denominations and communities, so likewise Islam. The largest Christian entity is the Catholic Church; the largest Muslim entity is probably the loosely affiliated Sunni sect. Which is bigger? The Catholic Church by a large margin.
Meanwhile, continuing our comparison of apples with apples, if you take all of Christianity (Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, etc.) and add it all together, the totality of Muslims still falls significantly short.
David
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Steven Barrett
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Posted: Tue Apr 1st, 2008 03:46 pm |
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You're right Dave, but I couldn't resist having some fun with it anyway. Just wait'll you or I, or any of us, runs into a Bible Thumper ready to pounce with all sorts of fictional facts and other "proofs" to hammer his point that Catholicism is on the skids and only Bible Believing Christians -- which concidently rings awfully close to Koran Believing Muslims--will pass through the Pearly Gates.
And of course, the news wires almost invariably miss the old adage about "once Catholic, always Catholic" being true except in cases of unrepentant abortion, flaunting and disgracing sacraments, etc. Now the numbers will begin to change.
Another thing that seemed missing is the not-so-suble message Islam sends out to anyone who decides to revert: Apostates are goners, toast. That's why their fundies and hard core jihadi boyos love Sharia. Stalin and the Mafia gangsters kept their newbies in tight with similar "messages" to any prospective second-guessers from joining the ranks of Muhammed's "fallen." They seldom "fall" like the man in Italy, baptized and confirmed by the Pope. They just disappear.
But you'll rarely see any comparative examples highlighting how non-coercive Rome is towards her "apostates." Nobody's had to leave Dodge out of fear for jumping to Islam. But they'll sure find a hell of a lot of it within Islam.
____________________
James Michael Curley to a young Thomas “Tip” O’Neill -- “Son, it’s nice to be important, but it’s more important to be nice.”
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ordinary means
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Posted: Tue Apr 1st, 2008 07:07 pm |
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Steven Barrett wrote: Another thing that seemed missing is the not-so-suble message Islam sends out to anyone who decides to revert: Apostates are goners, toast.
I don't know how they could have sent any more clear a message. Do you know why the attack on the USA happened on September 11. Type September 11, 1683 into your search engin. The war never ended for Islam. Three hundred twenty years is a long time to carry a grudge.
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brian
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Posted: Wed Apr 2nd, 2008 03:58 am |
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Steven Barrett wrote:
What? We're no longer the biggest faith on the planet?
Thanks to Sharia and a very backwards approach towards family life, Islam is THE "keep 'em barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen" faith. And oh, yes, it also condones wife beating.
Now, how does a faith grow this fast in these times without a lot less mental and spiritual persuasion. It resorts to its final card in the deck: a lot more muscle and bone!
It is so difficult to talk about these things. I agree that Islam has definite problems in many of its sects. I even fear the influence this will have over the next century. But the pope would probably distance himself from comments such as you are making (or the way you worded them) as he has from comments of the Arab he baptized at the Ester Vigil for going on to call Islam a violent religion.
I guess I just wish we could be totally honest. Sometimes I wish we would not deny that there is a serious issue with violence and certain sects of Islam and that we could say it without having to apologize or clarify what we mean. Sometimes I think we should not try to distance ourselves from a fair look at the problems. I think that there is a lot that needs to be said about problems with Islam, and sometimes I feel like we are not being completely honest when we bend over backward to avoid making honest criticism of it, but I think ecumenically speaking it is good to realize how many good respectable Moslems that there are and ways their religion can be interpreted as a peaceful one. I have only known a few moslems well, but I respected them as people who seem devout and peaceful to me.
Still, I do not know if you were being sarcastic, but I think that we would not be encouraged to say things in quite the manner you have spoken. At least not in public. What if a devout peaceful moslem who never best his wife or saw such a practice read this post who was interested in learning about the Catholic faith? Would he not think of us as being a little less than fair?
Brian
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brian
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Posted: Wed Apr 2nd, 2008 05:27 am |
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I thought this article was interesting regarding these issues. Not sure how accurate the interpretations are, but they are interesting.
http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles8/Brown-Conversions-and-Freedom-of-Conscience.php
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Robert
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Posted: Wed Apr 2nd, 2008 10:57 am |
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The simple fact is that Islam will never stop untill it has covered the world.
The growth of Islam is not a question of better missionary work on their part, but rather the lack of it on our part. Catholics are simply afraid of criticism based on the over used legend of large scale forced coversions.
Nevertheless, this issue is not a question of numbers but of the TRUTH of Jesus Christ and his Church.
____________________
Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect (1 Peter 3:15)
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Wed Apr 2nd, 2008 01:33 pm |
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I have sometimes pondered what the term “moderate Muslim” really means. Islam, whether the Muslims admit it or not, has a long history of barbarism, violence and oppression. Is “moderate Islam” supposed to be a more benign and non-violent form of Islam, or is it (as in the case of Magdi Alam, the man recently baptized by Benedict XVI) a euphemism for being Muslim in name only?
In the story cited by Brian, Magdi Alam’s interpretation of Islamic aggression and violence as focusing solely on Israel and the Jews is not accurate. Muslims want the entire world, not just a part of it. They have made that clear down through the centuries.
Robert wrote:The growth of Islam is not a question of better missionary work on their part, but rather the lack of it on our part. Catholics are simply afraid of criticism based on the over used legend of large scale forced coversions.
My impression is that this is a misinterpretation. Muslims are not engaged in “missionary work”; their aim is conquest and domination. Even within Islam, this is the thrust of its outward policies. The Catholic approach is based on entirely different principles which respect the human dignity of every individual human being. If some overzealous Christians (of any stripe) have misunderstood their religion’s missionary vocation to the point of attempting to follow the path of conquest and forced conversion, this is simply wrong-headedness, not Christianity.
This issue is not a question of numbers but of the TRUTH of Jesus Christ and his Church.
Of course. Christianity started small. It took centuries to become the world’s most populous religion. Others, taking advantage of Christians’ sins (I’ll mention only the sin of contraception, although much more is involved), may by their own means temporarily surpass Christians in numbers, but the truth will not die because of it.
David
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CajunRick
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Posted: Wed Apr 2nd, 2008 03:33 pm |
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David W. Emery wrote: Others, taking advantage of Christians’ sins (I’ll mention only the sin of contraception, although much more is involved), may by their own means temporarily surpass Christians in numbers, but the truth will not die because of it.
I think this is the real factor. Contraception and abortion have become so accepted and prevelant in the west, along with our consumer oriented society, that the birth rate has fallen below replacement levels in most western countries. Eastern nations, whether Islamic, Buddhist, Hindu, etc., have not succumbed to the temptation of sin by contraception and so the rate of population growth continues. We are still gaining more converts than any other faith (in my opinion -- hard numbers are difficult to find) but we are losing numbers in the descendents of current Catholics and Christians in general.
Muslims are growing in numbers not so much because of conversions but because of population growth in the Islamic world.
This is also a big part of the problem of shrinking vocations. A family with seven children is much more likely to encourage some of them to become priests, brothers, and nuns, than a family with only one or two children. We are genetically wired to want our genes to continue to the next generation, but if an only child becomes a celibate Roman Catholic priest, the genetic line will die out. The larger the family, the more likely that one or more will pursue a vocation. Again, hard numbers are difficult to obtain, but I'll bet it would be interesting to see statistics on the number of siblings priests and religious have. I think the results would be quite interesting.
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Steven Barrett
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Posted: Thu Apr 3rd, 2008 02:32 am |
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First of all, I was having some fun with the news story. Secondly, it's a fact that Sharia allows the husband to just about any damn thing he wishes to in so-called Islamic societies. I offer no apologies on behalf of Western Civilization, notwithstanding the foul acts of our bums concerning spousal abuse. Our record of legal jurisprudence, and advancement of women's rights around the world speaks for itself in volumes compared to the "nation of Islam."
____________________
James Michael Curley to a young Thomas “Tip” O’Neill -- “Son, it’s nice to be important, but it’s more important to be nice.”
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sewnsew
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Posted: Thu Apr 3rd, 2008 02:49 am |
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A family with seven children is much more likely to encourage some of them to become priests, brothers, and nuns, than a family with only one or two children. We are genetically wired to want our genes to continue to the next generation, but if an only child becomes a celibate Roman Catholic priest, the genetic line will die out.
I am starting to see small signs of change in the younger Catholics (and Fundamentalist Protestants) I am on several parenting or sewing groups that are Catholic specific or Christian generally and they are speaking out and have larger ( four +) kids and in general are becoming less open to contraceptives and way more open to natural spacing methods so things are turning a little- not that we see it in the general population but who know maybe it is the tip of an iceberg. Also I am seeing a return to orthodoxy people's faith lives- at least the oes not out there doing crystals in magic cirlces up in Sedona
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Thu Apr 3rd, 2008 02:56 am |
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Kim, this is a trend I’ve been watching for about a decade now. It’s not a “big thing” yet, by any means, but little by little there are inroads, both within the Church and in general society.
David
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sewnsew
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Posted: Thu Apr 3rd, 2008 03:01 am |
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I think that as the pro-life movement is winning and as the phrase "culture of death" becomes heard more and more the tide will change, sometimes like a snowball things start small and increase exponentially
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Thu Apr 3rd, 2008 03:18 am |
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Exactly. Recall that it was during this period that the pro-life movement became a majority. Simple attention to issues made it so: the debates in congress over partial birth abortion in the mid-90s were decisive in this regard. And the hardball we are seeing from the other side since that time should tell us who is afraid.
David
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CajunRick
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Posted: Thu Apr 3rd, 2008 03:41 am |
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David W. Emery wrote: Exactly. Recall that it was during this period that the pro-life movement became a majority. Simple attention to issues made it so: the debates in congress over partial birth abortion in the mid-90s were decisive in this regard. And the hardball we are seeing from the other side since that time should tell us who is afraid.
Face it, the pro-abortion crowd is genetically doomed. If they concentrate on contraception, abortion, and homosexual relationships, they'll eventually all die and they won't have any kids to follow in their footsteps!
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Steven Barrett
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Posted: Thu Apr 3rd, 2008 10:06 pm |
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Brian,
"Still, I do not know if you were being sarcastic, but I think that we would not be encouraged to say things in quite the manner you have spoken. At least not in public. What if a devout peaceful moslem who never best his wife or saw such a practice read this post who was interested in learning about the Catholic faith? Would he not think of us as being a little less than fair?"
I had to really think this one over a bit, given the "fairness" demonstrated by Muslims over a few Danish cartoons depicting Muhammed in a bad light. Oh for crying out loud; how often has the Pope been lampooned and we haven't seen any orchestrated "spontaneous" riots?
We have a Cathecism and Muslims are perfectly free to look through it; that is, if they don't have to look over their shoulders as to who is looking at what they're reading and that who happens to belong to their same faith.
I never said or meant to imply that all faithfull muslims beat their wives, and keep them locked in the kitchen and bedroom. But I was targeting the fastest growing segments of Islam who do follow the tenents of the Koran, one of the most backward books ever written in history.
If the Muslims here want any reassurance that we don't hold them singularly blameworthy for wife-beating and other means of keeping women back, all they have to do is watch our "reality police" shows on the tube, especially those featuring domestic disputes where even American Christians are the "featured stars."
We know our laws don't always do a great job of protecting women. A temprorary restraining order (TRO) often presents no more a problem to wayward husbands than a kleenex tissue. But at least we developed them according to our standards of western law, many if not all, trace their origins to Jewish and Christian laws, not to mention our many fine law schools. Islam, however, remains a prisoner of its Koranic past, and will remain so even more if more and more nations embrace Sharia. Take the TRO example again; as badly as we enforce laws protecting women in this country, what rights will Muslim have left at all if we just continue kow-towing to them? This is why the British Parliament had to take a deep breath and tell (Anglican) Archbishop Williams he was out of his mind.
Fairness will come when all the "political correctness" pap and a stronger desire to "dialogue" is replaced with a cold steelness towards a faith and its most radical elements calling the shots from within its madrassas, mosques and seminaries. We are at war and we mustn't forget it. And while I don't believe for a moment we need to ape our president with his "axis of evil" catch phrases and the bilge spewed out by pundits like Ann Coulter and pontificating pill-poppin' blowhards like El Rushbo, we also have to never forget that however deep our flaws are, and I'll admit we have a ton of them; our flaws, ranging from abortion to cyberporn on demand, could only explain the outrage felt by many Muslims against the west. But no way on this earth could it ever justify or equal the deepest flawed mindset that gave us 9/11.
As far as I'm concerned, "dialogue" ended right there, just as it stopped for Japan and the US on Pearl Harbor Day. Has our dialogue gotten us any where with Saudi Arabia in getting help to bag bin Ladin? Or how about a hefty discount on the oil considering all we're doing to keep those ungrateful bums nice and comfy in their palaces?
As for the "sarcastic" means of expressing myself -- which no doubt I'm gleefully (guilty of)," don't you think it's a bit presumptuous to be suggesting that a free man living in a free nation shouldn't be free or "encouraged to say things in quite the manner" I wrote them in?
Boy, that's what I'd expect to find in some collegetown newspaper up here in the northeast where political correctness continues to tighten its muzzles on people like me who perhaps in the eyes of many a tsk tsk'ing and usually "outraged" professor thinks I should be straightjacketed for thinking, much less saying and writing out loud. Yet, more often than not, those same rules don't apply to them, especially if they have tenure.
My my my, PC will be the death of our culture, our sense of justice, and sure as hell, our sense of humor.
____________________
James Michael Curley to a young Thomas “Tip” O’Neill -- “Son, it’s nice to be important, but it’s more important to be nice.”
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brian
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Posted: Fri Apr 4th, 2008 03:51 am |
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The thing is I respect your opinions. My question is how much we should speak in a way that would be more in line with formal statements made by our church. Meaning, if you were i a room with a handful of people like a few americans a few moslems and the pope having a discussion and you expressed yourself the way you did, I would think the pope would be struggling to clarify or almost apologize for the way you put things.
Your points may be valid, but I am just wondering to what extent we should speak in a way with our freedom that we do not see the leaders of our church doing which are still trying hard to befriend moslems and avoid as much religious war as possible.
Perhaps you are right and as long as it is not canon law not to speak out against Islam we should be as open and honest as we want to, but my point is that when I see that we as a church are trying hard to be cautious with how we discuss this matter and try to make the most of the situation, what does that mean for us laity. Should we not also try to be more cautious with our remarks and meticulous with our criticisms and who they do and do not apply to?
Anyway, I am not worried about it. I just thought that it seemed a bit harshly worded for a forum where we do not know who reads it even if it was largely true. But I guess your other reply made it clear specifically what you were speaking of. Perhaps I am getting too PC too, but I do care about peoples sensitivities at the same time I care about speaking the truth with boldness. Perhaps sometimes I am too concerned with the former and not enough of the latter.
anyway, hope I am not offending you (or should I care? lol)
Brian
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Annie
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Posted: Fri Apr 4th, 2008 08:02 pm |
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I work with Moslems who are highly educated (Ph.D's in the hard sciences). I would consider them moderate. They do not espouse violence in any way and live very quietly according to the tenets of their faith (the Five Pillars). The ladies wear modified veil things to cover their hair. The men are very respectful and kind, especially to newcomers in the company (we are a big company and it's easy to feel lost).
In grad school I talked to a Moslem classmate from Pakistan. He explained to me how he reads the Koran and how he reads the Bible to get the complete stories of Abraham and the others mentioned in the Koran.
I have read the Koran, the official English/Arabic version published by King Fahd University Press and I know very well what it says about Christians. Moderate Moslems interpret the more venomous passages to be Mohammed's ranting during the time when he was on the lam (he had to move to another town because people were trying to kill him). They do not necessarily believe that the Koran is not open to interpretation because it was directly dictated to Mohammed. In some circles this would be heresy of course so they are careful in expressing it in just this way.
An acquaintance of mine was on American Flight 11 so I take some things very personally. RIP, Peter.
There are moderate Moslems but they have to be careful of the immoderate ones. For that matter, moderate Christians have to be careful of the immoderate ones too. I have had some other types of Christians say that the world would be better off without Catholics. Is that a threat? Some things that have been said to me were definitely threats. Though violence of Christians against Christians has tempered greatly over the centuries. We no longer burn people at the stake for our beliefs. And see past threads for people justifying this with the false arguments, "they started it," or "they killed more people than we did."
Islam needs to mature as Christianity did.
Anyway, I am careful about what I say and how I say it because I know the unending variety of humanity that is all around us. I'm glad I've moved around a lot and lived in various places and been to grad school, etc. It was a broadening experience though painful at times. We are always more comfortable with our own kind, it is our nature to be so.
Last edited on Fri Apr 4th, 2008 08:09 pm by Annie
____________________
Annie
Ora et labora
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Steven Barrett
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Posted: Fri Apr 4th, 2008 08:30 pm |
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Brian,
I'm not offended. Believe me, I've have my chops busted a lot harder in print. And you haven't even come nearly as close to a German national working for a prestigious women's college library I used to work for, who outright demanded me to resign, or the head librarian to demand me to hand my head over to her -- sequence wasn't as important as results --all because I had the audacity to support Bill Clinton's plans to clamp down on porn getting into the eyesight of kids in libraries, public, academic, whatever.  You and anyone else will have get up awfully early in the morning to top that.
Good heavens, censorship in libraries? Why shouldn't kiddies have to see porn or students attending from nations where we're not at all popular, shouldn't be barred from seeing our secrets as well. Why not open all the stalls as well as the entire barn? 
No, you couldn't top that!
Perhaps that's why I'm more than a tad bit of even a tad bit sensitive when I suspect any attempts --subtle -- or otherwise -- put dampers on styles of free expression or politically uncomfortable views (which is a more accurate way to describe what so many of us, myself included call political correctness) -- especially when the subject involves a potential threat not only our national security, but religious freedom across the world as well. ( It's time to be honest with ourselves, if the USA goes down, there won't be anything outside of the Almighty stopping the foes of any religious freedom.) We don't even have to be flag-waving jingoists chanting the obnoxious "USA USA USA" chants at every international sporting events. On the other hand, we shouldn't hold back, or be made to feel intimidated by the politically uncomfortable,abroad and especially here!
I've seen that happen all too often where I live and sure as heck don't want to see it happen here. Moments of political honesty and greatness will seldom occur during polite parlor discussions, but rather political rodeos. Yes, a lot of bull will get thrown, manure spread, and some bones broken, clowns running around, and yes, some old fashioned jingoism thrown in, but for once we can be "cafeteria Catholics" as well as "cafeteria Americans" and take what we want from it and leave the rest behind. Under Islam, and not the Islam of the moderates you (rightly champion) -- but the rising and predominately militant kind of Islam we're facing and fighting -- there's no cafeteria. There hasn't been since the Wahabis took control during the 18th century.
Let's be far more worried about being comfortable with being too good in the worst ways, thus enabling our meanest enemies any misimpression that we're pushovers. It's one thing to pray for our enemies; it's another to allow ourselves to become easy prey for them.
Again, don't worry, I'm not offended. Believe me, if the turkeys with only two left feet in Massachusetts' "Happy Valley" haven't finished me off yet ...
____________________
James Michael Curley to a young Thomas “Tip” O’Neill -- “Son, it’s nice to be important, but it’s more important to be nice.”
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january tuesday
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Posted: Fri Apr 4th, 2008 10:14 pm |
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I agree with Annie. I think it is really unfair to place all Muslims in one sweeping category, and I think that Islam when practiced the way it was intended is a peaceful religion. I have several friends who are Muslim, and they are some of the sweetest, most gentle, and generous people I know.
I think we learn a lot of fear of Islam from the way that the media portrays Muslims. Be aware of how the news and movies purposefully shape the Muslim image. I don't disagree that there are violent Muslims or that some sects of Islam are aggressive and set on violence, but I don't think the problem is Islam, it's people using Islam for other purposes.
____________________
"Beloved, let us love one another, because love is from God; everyone who loves is born of God and knows God." 1 John 4:7
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Steven Barrett
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Posted: Fri Apr 4th, 2008 11:09 pm |
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January Tuesday,
I agree with you insofar as how we treat individuals. But we must be wary of what happens to individuals when the wrong people twist their very religions and national identities to wrongful purposes. This is my main concern; not with individual Muslims, and certainly not those who wish harm on anyone else.
Part of my youth was spent in Morocco, living outside of Casablanca when my dad was stationed there at Nouresseur AFB. Americans and Moroccans got along quite well at a time when our NATO ally France wasn't for understandable reasons. The Moroccans wanted and got their independence.
Nor do I cotton to many of the (oft-overblown) notions put forth by so many shock jocks trying to whip up nationalistic fervor on our part. There is a certain "rednecky" quality to all that nonsense that I detest because many of the biggest mouths and fattest keyboard pounders never demonstrated any intentions of raising their hands and taking oaths to actually defend their constitution and country. Our own VEEP, Dick Cheney is amongs the biggest offenders, turning his country down at least five times during the VN war once even saying he "had better things to do." While not trying to brag in the least, at least I spent a few weeks commuting from my college (then Biscayne College, now St. Thomas Univ., way up in North Dade County) to the Univ. of Miami for Army ROTC before academic necessity back on the "home front" required a "retreat."
It's not a matter of being militaristic against Islam, or even having an antagonistic attitude. It's a matter of knowing who's calling the shots and why. And from there knowing where also the money flows and what it's buying. Believe me, what it's buying and who's going to use it to buy certain things is what has me worried, just as British Protestants had reason to be wary of any funds coming from gullible Irish Catholics in the US to "help the children of Belfast."
Islam is being driven not only by some amount of spiritual attraction, it's also being driven by old fashioned religious imperialism; much alike the same drive that pushed many of Catholicism's worst excesses against native people living in this hemisphere from Columbus' discovery onwards.
Sure, I was sarcastic before, but as I've also indicated, we mustn't back down in our defense of our way of life, and most importantly our religious teachings because they violate somebody else's predetermined ideas of political comfort and correctness. Hell's bells: if little Denmark can stand up to Islamic radicals, it's time we in the rest of the west take note and stand with the Danes.
Fairness is a wonderful thing to achieve in the mixed realm of religion and politics. We've been trying to find that right mix for thousands of years and the closest any of us have come close to defining it was a handful of men locked into a single room in Philadelphia, and they were led by a Virginia lawyer who lived on a plantation and owned slaves: James Madison. And we're still trying to figure out the genius behind Madison's logic.
And, as for fairness, ask the Holy See how it was treated lately when it wanted to establish its first church with in Saudi Arabia. Sure, the Vatican knew it was a long shot. But it sure learned a lot more about Wahabi-dominated Saudi Arabian Islam, THE dominate form of Islamic thought in the world, and its notions of religious fairness.
No such luxury, and believe me, with Sharia, Madison's ideas would be a luxury, exists in the so-called "land of Islam." It's not the moderates we know here and abroad we need to be concerned with. Even Pope Benedict is aware of that; it's the firebrands. And everywhere the firebrands have taken over, blood has flowed copiously; most of it the blood of fellow Muslims.
Ask anybody who's come into contact with the Taliban. They'll tell you. These people are so notoriously fierce that even Osama uses them as a shield, for now. And what scares the hell out of me is the number of home-grown fanatical circles growing in this country, particularly in our bigger cities, mid-sized cities such as Toledo, OH and college-towns across this country and in Europe. Especially Europe.
By all means, let's be fair; but also clear-mindedly honest, and keep our eyes as open as we want to keep our hearts. Few Muslims in this nation are violent and hateful of the US and our culture as a whole. But let's also keep our hearts in tune with our collective memories and remember that it was just a handful of indeed very hate-filled and hard-core dedicated Muslim fanatics who killed nearly 3,000 people land injured many more both physically and psychically speaking.
And I thought this thread wouldn't go very far!
____________________
James Michael Curley to a young Thomas “Tip” O’Neill -- “Son, it’s nice to be important, but it’s more important to be nice.”
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Ali
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| Joined: | Sat Jan 6th, 2007 |
| Location: | Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 667 |
| First Name: | Ali | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | JW, finally fully Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Apr 8th, 2008 02:48 pm |
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kimdyuma wrote: A family with seven children is much more likely to encourage some of them to become priests, brothers, and nuns, than a family with only one or two children. We are genetically wired to want our genes to continue to the next generation, but if an only child becomes a celibate Roman Catholic priest, the genetic line will die out.
I am starting to see small signs of change in the younger Catholics (and Fundamentalist Protestants) I am on several parenting or sewing groups that are Catholic specific or Christian generally and they are speaking out and have larger ( four +) kids and in general are becoming less open to contraceptives and way more open to natural spacing methods so things are turning a little- not that we see it in the general population but who know maybe it is the tip of an iceberg.
Oh definitely. I have seen this in the past 5 years or so online as well. The Quiverfull movement, lol. Is it the Dugals who have gotten all the attention?? Trust me, it's not just them! It was also heartening to see large Catholic families in our homeschool group as well. My dd wants six children. I'm aiming for the priesthood for my little guy. LOL
Ali
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