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Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist
| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 1414 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Evangelical "Jesus Freak" (Arminian) / "Lewisian Schaefferite" / Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Apr 30th, 2008 05:44 pm |
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This paper presupposes that readers have been following (to some extent, anyway) the goings-on of Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama and his pastor and "spiritual mentor" Rev. Jeremiah Wright, of the ultra-liberal United Church of Christ denomination. I was struck by several ironies and inconsistencies in his rhetoric, especially after he has now taken to giving public speeches, defending himself and his ludicrous positions. I felt compelled to express myself, because of the hypocrisy of this man.
Rev. Wright has opined that 9-11 was a judgment on America. But he does so for the wrong reasons (or the Wright ones, as it were: to follow the wordplay in the title). Wright seems to think (as we see in the latest video being shown on the cable news stations) that America's foreign policy is literally the equivalent of that of the Islamic terrorists. This is not my position at all. I have defended the War in Iraq, twice (one / two). Like most people, I think we should get out as soon as we can (and made that clear at the time of my defense years ago), but I'm not at all sure as to how soon that might be.
Wright thinks that our military habitually and deliberately attacks innocent civilians as a matter of course. Though we did a lot of that in World War II, and I have condemned it in no uncertain terms, as has -- somewhat indirectly -- the Catholic Church, I submit that the truth of the matter is quite the contrary. We are fighting against those who do do such things. There is no "immoral equivalence" at all. But for some reason, Wright thinks this is the case.
He claimed that 9-11 was "America's chickens coming home to roost." For what, though, is the question? He would say it is all these imagined things that we are doing around the world, being a force more for evil than for good. It is typical left-wing, historically revisionist, selectively indignant anti-Americanism. He has to distort facts and argue like a radical Marxist handing out fliers on a college campus, to maintain his thesis.
Rev. Wright thinks that it is entirely possible that the American government deliberately spread the AIDS virus as a way to commit genocide against black people (because of the documented Tuskegee experiments that exploited black men with VD).
Rev. Wright calls our country the "US of KKKA", as if there has been no progress at all in race relations these past 50+ years, since Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat on the bus (I recently sat in the very bus in a local museum), and Rev. Martin Luther King became a civil rights activist.
The most amazing thing is that he believes that America (well, he qualifies this to primarily the government) is still out to "get" African-Americans, despite the fact that one of his own church members (a black man) is almost certainly going to be the Democratic candidate for President. You try to figure that out. I can't. My powers of reasoning and analysis completely fail me on this one. But of course, Wright's feelings here are not based on reason, but rather, emotion over the many legitimate past grievances of African-Americans.
But back to the point I was advancing towards: Rev. Wright makes up imaginary present sins and proceeds to conclude that 9-11 was a judgment for those. He has talked about America "killing babies" in various wars. But to my knowledge, he hasn't uttered one peep about the gigantic legally-sanctioned wickedness of child-killing that we call legal abortion.
He is now covering himself in the mantle of the prophetic tradition of the Old Testament: one that is steeped in social justice and decrying of societal outrages and discrimination, and he makes out that the criticism of him is really an attack on this tradition of speaking truth to power, that is historically characteristic of the black churches. But he fails to see how much of that same prophetic tradition would condemn abortion as well.
This is, again, typical left-wing (or in this case, quite "mainstream liberal") ethical double standards and inconsistencies, with regard to its own ostensible rhetoric of being for the little guy: and the oppressed and helpless, etc., etc. ad nauseum. But not a peep about the ongoing slaughter of preborn children . . . The Old Testament that Rev. Wright likes to cite for his cause of anti-Americanism is filled with passages against abortion, child-killing in general, and the shedding of innocent blood:
You shall not give any of your children to devote them by fire to Molech, and so profane the name of your God: I am the LORD. (Leviticus 18:21)
"Say to the people of Israel, Any man of the people of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, who gives any of his children to Molech shall be put to death; the people of the land shall stone him with stones. I myself will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people, because he has given one of his children to Molech, defiling my sanctuary and profaning my holy name. (Leviticus 20:2-3)
For he who avenges blood is mindful of them; he does not forget the cry of the afflicted. (Psalm 9:12)
they poured out innocent blood, the blood of their sons and daughters, whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan; and the land was polluted with blood. (Psalm 106:38)
There are six things which the LORD hates, seven which are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, (Proverbs 6:16-18)
For behold the LORD comes out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity; the earth will also disclose her blood, and will no more cover her slain. (Isaiah 26:21)
Their feet run to evil, and they make haste to shed innocent blood; their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity, desolation and destruction are in their highways. (Isaiah 59:7)
Also on your skirts is found the lifeblood of guiltless poor; . . . (Jeremiah 2:34)
if you do not oppress the alien, the fatherless or the widow, or shed innocent blood in this place, and if you do not go after other gods to your own hurt, . . . (Jeremiah 7:6)
Because the people have forsaken me, and have profaned this place by burning incense in it to other gods whom neither they nor their fathers nor the kings of Judah have known; and because they have filled this place with the blood of innocents, (Jeremiah 19:4)
Thus says the LORD: Do justice and righteousness, and deliver from the hand of the oppressor him who has been robbed. And do no wrong or violence to the alien, the fatherless, and the widow, nor shed innocent blood in this place. (Jeremiah 22:3)
But you have eyes and heart only for your dishonest gain, for shedding innocent blood, and for practicing oppression and violence." (Jeremiah 22:17)
They built the high places of Ba'al in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to offer up their sons and daughters to Molech, though I did not command them, nor did it enter into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin. (Jeremiah 32:35)
Then he said to me, "The guilt of the house of Israel and Judah is exceedingly great; the land is full of blood, and the city full of injustice; . . . (Ezekiel 9:9)
And you took your sons and your daughters, whom you had borne to me, and these you sacrificed to them to be devoured. Were your harlotries so small a matter that you slaughtered my children and delivered them up as an offering by fire to them?. . . Thus says the Lord GOD, Because your shame was laid bare and your nakedness uncovered in your harlotries with your lovers, and because of all your idols, and because of the blood of your children that you gave to them, (Ezekiel 16:20-21,36)
When you offer your gifts and sacrifice your sons by fire, you defile yourselves with all your idols to this day. And shall I be inquired of by you, O house of Israel? As I live, says the Lord GOD, I will not be inquired of by you. (Ezekiel 20:31)
You have become guilty by the blood which you have shed, and defiled by the idols which you have made; and you have brought your day near, the appointed time of your years has come. Therefore I have made you a reproach to the nations, and a mocking to all the countries. (Ezekiel 22:4)
For they have committed adultery, and blood is upon their hands; with their idols they have committed adultery; and they have even offered up to them for food the sons whom they had borne to me. (Ezekiel 23:37)
For when they had slaughtered their children in sacrifice to their idols, on the same day they came into my sanctuary to profane it. And lo, this is what they did in my house. (Ezekiel 23:39)
"Therefore, as I live," says the Lord God, "I will prepare you for blood, and blood shall pursue you; since you have not hated blood, therefore blood shall pursue you." (Ezekiel 35:6)
So I poured out my wrath upon them for the blood which they had shed in the land, for the idols with which they had defiled it. (Ezekiel 36:18)
"Egypt shall become a desolation and Edom a desolate wilderness, for the violence done to the people of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land. (Joel 3:19)
For true and righteous are His judgments, because He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication; and he has avenged on her the blood of His servants shed by her. (Revelation 19:2)
Most Protestant churches have, sadly, capitulated to the pro-death abortion culture. and Wright's United Church of Christ is at the forefront of such "progress." Here is its position on abortion:
The United Church of Christ (UCC) has strongly supported the legalization of abortion since 1971. The UCC supported FOCA and strongly opposed the PBA [Partial-Birth Abortion] ban to the point of joining the National Abortion and Reproductive Rights Action League (NARRAL) in a statement affirming President Clinton’s veto of the PBA Ban Act in 1996. The UCC has also called for the church to support abortion in any national health care bill. As we would expect, based on observation of the descent of many Protestant denominations into heterodox theological liberalism, the UCC is in the forefront of compromise concerning homosexuality and so-called "gay marriage" as well. It voted (by an 80% majority) to approve same-sex "marriage" in July 2005: making it the largest denomination to do so as of yet. Gee, what a huge surprise! Who would have expected such a development??!!
Jeremiah Wright, despite all this, is delusional to such an extent that he actually thinks he is in the tradition of the Old Testament prophets and historic black churches, despite his denomination's belief in the moral propriety of sodomy and the slaughter of babies in the womb (or halfway out of it, on the way to be born, but for the butcher's knife of the abortionist). He uses the Christian religion the way a butcher uses a hog: to get what he wants out of it: no more and no less.
Alveda King, the niece of Rev. Martin Luther King, wrote:
I can remember the days when Jesse Jackson was pro-life, and he went across the country calling abortion genocide. I don't understand how he took that turn or why. I personally believe that any leader, especially African-American leaders -- and I can say this because I'm African-American -- should be compelled to remember the days of slavery and to remember their responsibility toward the children we call the unborn. They are real people too, and they actually have civil rights.
(Illinois Leader, January 15, 2004) Jesse Jackson eloquently defended the right to life of the preborn in a January 1977 article for Right to Life News:
Human beings cannot give or create life by themselves, it is really a gift from God. Therefore, one does not have the right to take away (through abortion) that which he does not have the ability to give.
Some argue, suppose the woman does not. want to have the baby. They say the very fact that she does not want the baby means that the psychological damage to the child is reason enough to abort the baby'. I disagree. The solution to that problem is not to kill the innocent baby, but to deal with her values and her attitude toward life . . . Deal with the attitude that would allow her to take away that which she cannot give. . . .
Another area that concerns me greatly, namely because I know how it has been used with regard to race, is the psycholinguistics involved in this whole issue of abortion. If something can be dehumanized through the rhetoric used to describe it, then the major battle has been won. . . . Those advocates of taking. life prior to birth do not call it killing or murder; they call it abortion. They further never talk about aborting a baby because that would imply something human. Rather they talk about aborting the fetus. Fetus sounds less than human and therefore can be justified. . . .
What happens to the mind of a person, and the moral fabric of a nation, that accepts the aborting of the life of a baby without a pang of conscience? What kind of a person, and what kind of a society will we have 20 years hence if life can be taken so casually?
It is that question, the question of our attitude, our value system, and our mind-set with regard to the nature and worth of life itself that is the central question confronting mankind. Failure to answer that question affirmatively may leave us with a hell right here on earth.
Jackson spoke at the 1977 March for Life. But when he ran for President, he reversed his position. In that year he wrote:
If one accepts the position that life is private, and therefore you have the right to do with it as you please, one must also accept the conclusion of that logic. That was the premise of slavery. You could not protest the existence or treatment of slaves on the plantation because that was private and therefore outside your right to be concerned. But in 1988 he stated that "it is not right to impose private, religious and moral positions on public policy.''
Civil rights activist and comedian Dick Gregory has decried abortion as genocide:
Government family programs designed for poor Blacks which emphasize birth control and abortion with the intent of limiting the Black population is genocide. The deliberate killing of Black babies by abortion is genocide--perhaps the most overt of all.
(Ebony magazine, October, 1971) For more information along these lines, see BlackGenocide.org and another article on black genocide.
All this murder and self-destruction is going on day in and day out in the African-American community, with the sanction and blessing of black pastors like Wright and Jesse Jackson (who often won't speak out against premarital sex, either), and yet Wright wants to talk about idiotic conspiratorial rumors of a deliberate AIDS genocide perpetrated by an evil "KKK" government?! And he preaches things like the following?:
The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color.
(April 2003)
____________________
I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 1900+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
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Steven Barrett
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| Joined: | Tue Nov 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | Hadley, Massachusetts USA |
| Posts: | 798 |
| First Name: | Steven | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, Episcopal communicant, Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Apr 30th, 2008 07:26 pm |
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 Poor Sen. Obama, the guy didn't know a set-up from a telephone pole.
The moment he originally dissed his minister (for even the slightest reasons) he didn't just find himself moving a 1/16 or 1/8 of an inch away, he learned the hard way that Wright had pulled miles apart in retaliation for Obama's initial, albeit very slight backing away (or even willingness to address the Rev. Wrong's comments in the first place.)
I realize how tricky that sounded, but there's a lot of "inside baseball" going on here that the public may never fully realize for some time to come. But Obama blew it big time by going heavy on the eloquence In Philadelphia and not letting Wright have it so hard, so firm and so heavy that he wouldn't have dared to stage this week's circus tour.
But on the other hand, if Wright really cared about seeing African Americans finally levelling the political field once and for all by helping to secure Obama's nomination and possible election, he should've hibernated and kept his yap shut. But he couldn't do that anymore than Obama felt up to slamming back the minister when he had the opportunity to do so.
Apparently, it wasn't just the YouTube snippet leading to the much overblown speech in Philly. He knew well in advance what a loose cannon Wright's been all along. He kept his distance from the reverend when he first announced for the presidency in Springfield (IL) last year. Hmmm. Would anybody here tell Fr. Francis Malachy McCourt he couldn't speak a few words out of fear for something bombastic coming out of his mouth? (His bishop might be a little nervous ... no just kidding.) Would most African American politicians have any trouble with their ministers? Same answer. NO.
Wright is a very unusual case. He's extremely clever with words, and he can make some good points, but like most ideologues who put their egos before better judgment, they trip themselves up on the very thing they want everyone to remember (or put memorize) them by, their cleverness. It's a perpetual circle with some of these guys and because they gain so much personal satisfaction knowing their words move people (and I don't fault them for this, being a writer I share this fault from time to time) -- but they don't know when to call it quits.
A lot of people are going to be watching this unfold, and I bet one of them is Sen. Charles Grassley who's been on the Rev. Crefalo Dollar's back for lavish spending of his parishoners' Sunday basket offerings. Anybody's pastor own a jet? How 'bout a Rolls or Bentley? No? Life must be tough. At least (if you're fully attending Mass) your pastor's wife isn't "the first lady." What's to stop Dollar now from joining Wright's bandwagon and saying it's a racial thing?
Hopefully it'll be Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson who are more political savvy and not nearly as crass as Dollar to know how major league politics is really played.
But the damage is done, and for Obama it might be fatal, along with his image as the candidate of the eggheady Adlai Stevenson wing of the DP and Clinton's rise in the pols aided by her very well-timed call for a gas-tax holiday during the summer months while Obama screams that it's pandering to the public. Well, giving the people some help, be it bread and circuses or tax breaks as opposed to breaking the hearts of so many Black Americans who found something to follow in this man and are now left gasping and wondering "why" and "how" for very good reasons.
He's long been listing to port, but now he's sinking.
I don't think Obama's in Wright's league, but he sure left himself a wide open flank for not just Clinton, but more dangerous -- McCain to come in on and hammer him.
"Frustrated people/God n' guns" / "no" on gas tax relief/ Rev Wrong
Didn't some High n Crazy Episcopalian poet say "April is the cruelest month"?
____________________
For anyone suffering from a mental illness or has a loved one with a mental illness, my book "Lead kindly Light: A Devotional For The Mentally Ill" might be of some help: http://www.lulu.com/ (Use search box at the top of page.)
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Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist
| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
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Posted: Wed Apr 30th, 2008 08:05 pm |
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Interesting thoughts, Steven.
The best analysis of Obama that I've seen was from Shelby Steele, that talked about Obama being a "bargainer": a black person who makes white people feel good and not threatened (the mirror opposite of Wright).
I read another analysis (I think, by Dick Morris) that stated that Obama was at this church because of the necessities of both Chicago Democratic politics and because of his need for acceptance in the black community (being half-white). To me that is entirely plausible. It would explain somewhat why he now claims to disagree with the more radical utterances of Rev. Wright). Possibly he always did, but he was there (at least partially) for political purposes, not religious ones. I can't read the man's soul, but this is how aspiring politicians act.
Now that Wright is clearly a detriment to his campaign, he is dissing him, because any "plusses" of association are far outweighed by the negatives. He can't say the reasl reason why he was at that church for 20 years and so he tried to play it down the middle in the "race speech" and now is distancing himself.
His problem is the implausibility of these safe, political maneuverings. It smacks of Bill Clinton and his ubiquitous opinion polls every day to see what he should believe. He can't say why he was really at that church for so long, so that puts him in a very difficult position.
I actually like Obama. He seems truly different from the usual Democratic (or Republican) politician (there are very few Democrats whom I personally like; I can't even think of one besides Obama). I want to trust him. He doesn't strike me as a phony. I hope he doesn't turn out to be a compulsive liar like President Clinton.
Not that I'll ever vote for him. I won't. I just think he has a cool personality and has some class that is rare in politics. But he is a politician, and is forced to do certain things, whether he wants to or not. The Wright issue is very tricky for him to navigate. His greatest ally will be the media, who are in his corner. They'll diss Wright too, more forcefully than they have been, before now. The fact that there is now this tiff between the two guarantees that the media will side with Obama, for obvious reasons.
The bigger problem is what this whole mess has done to his credibility and how white Americans will figure the relationship into the total equation of who to vote for. White folks have always feared the "angry black man" because we know full well what has been done to black people in this country in the past. It goes back to Malcolm X, etc.
I think Obama is vastly different than Wright in many ways. Whether he has always been is another question. I suspect that he has grown and matured (I mean in a general "social" sense; not politically per se). But whether the average Democratic voter or independent or swing voter thinks the same remains to be seen.
____________________
I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 1900+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
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EMarshallBuckles
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 19th, 2007 |
| Location: | Rockville (Near Richmond), Virginia USA |
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| First Name: | Marshall | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Christian Church,Episcopal Church,Baptist denomination,learning about RCC |
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Posted: Wed Apr 30th, 2008 08:21 pm |
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I just join in here, offering some comments for whatever they may be worth. First, I have never been involved with or supportive of any discrimination against minorities (in connection with that as it might pertain to the homosexual groups, even though I, for religious reasons, don't support the so called "gay agenda", I do have compassion for homosexuals and don't want to see them beaten up, etc. - I think that the answer for them is finding out what causes homosexuality and for a cure and/or preventions to be found). I regard people as human beings and know that God loves us all no matter what or who we may be. While disgusted and sickened by things that were done to discriminate against some people in the past, I have also been pleased by much that has been done to correct that in more recent years. I have been aware of both private sector and governmental employers and agencies doing much to, as the saying goes, "bend over backwards", so to speak, to correct what happened in the past and to avoid discrimination in the present. Yes, there are still those who discriminate against others, however, their numbers and influence have greatly decreased in the United States and in a number of other nations. I have much hope for the future, that our nation, at least, will achieve Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.s dream of people not being judged by the color of their skin but by their character. The elementary school I attended, in Bristol, Tennessee, has long had a motto posted at the entrance which says, "Character is Above Intellect". As I grow older, I have constantly seen evidence that the motto is true. And I will also say that it has also long seemed to me that our nation's Founders were NOT, for the most part, deists but were Christians and Jews, throughout the population, who "wove their Jewish-Christian morals and beliefs all through the 'tapestry' of our nation." I believe in God and believe that God did establish the United States and set it on a path to make the world better, more in harmony with God's way. Our nation has not been perfect, however, it has been far better than many other nations. Also, without the influence of Christians and Jews and, later, without the influence of the United States founded by them, I shudder to think what this world would have been like, by now, if it had continued to exist at all. We need only look to the old Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, modern day Communist China and North Korea to get an idea of what a world without God and without the United States, with it's Judeo-Christian ethics and influences would look like.
As for things such as AIDS mentioned by Dr. Wright, my understanding is that HIV which causes AIDS it may have had its origin in Africa or somewhere overseas. It may have originated just as a mutation of already existing viruses, of some sort, however, if it was developed in a lab somewhere, my guess would be that it might have been developed in a lab possibly in the old Soviet Union, Communist China or some other totalitatian state as a means of trying to bring the west to its knees. And the ironic thing is that it would have never spread if people had exhibited behaviors which we, as Christians, know that we SHOULD practice and had NOT done things of which God disapproves. And HIV is pretty much an "equal opportunity offender", as are other diseases. It doesn't discriminate due to skin color, national origin, gender, etc. Here's a clue - I think that one reason God said not to fornicate, not to commit adultery, etc. is because, in addition to the psychological and social problems they cause, they spread diseases. While we don't yet fully understand why and how God made our universe as God did, we nevertheless must trust that He made it the way He did for some excellent reasons and must do things that He tells us to do (or not do some things) for our own good. It is NOT the government which destroys us (at least, not in the United States), people do a pretty good job of destroying themselves without any help from the government. God gave us free will, however, He also gave us rules to live by which will help us enjoy that free will if we don't do things which will harm us, things which God has told us will harm us. My belief is that God does not send people to hell. People CHOOSE hell for themselves and send themselves there! Of course, I still am grappling with the idea of purgatory, however, I guess that I can always help Annie sweep up and fold chairs if we end up there, ha, ha!
I suspect that Dr. Wright probably may have held the opinions he has expressed privately for quite some time now, however, now that one of his church members is running for the Presidency, this has put him in the center stage of the world's attention and he is likely using the media attention to give vent to the opinions he has held. I don't know if Senator Obama would necessarily have heard them in church or not. I have regularly attended church for many years now and some Sundays - and some weekday noon services I used to attend as often as possible - I have paid rapt attention to the preacher and some days I was sort of "zoning out", wondering what we should have for lunch afterwards. Likewise, I thought that I knew the Pastor I listened to, most Sundays, for the better part of 23 years until he kicked me off a committee for respectfully submitting for their consideration a suggestion I had that was different from what he wanted. I still feel shock and heartbreak over that and, if Senator Obama was really previously clueless about what Dr. Wright is really like (and I say all this as one who is of a different party than Senator Obama - yes, I am a Republican, you who may be Democrats can pray for me, ha, ha), I can emphasize and sympathize with him about that. Sometimes you think that you know somebody and they turn out to be someone you didn't truly know at all and that can happen in politics, in religion as well as in other areas of life.
Oh well, as our Episcopalian friends say, "here endeth the epistle. Thanks be to God!" Ha, ha!
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EMarshallBuckles
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 19th, 2007 |
| Location: | Rockville (Near Richmond), Virginia USA |
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Posted: Wed Apr 30th, 2008 08:28 pm |
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Oh, and another thing, ha, ha! Regarding Iraq, many people do not know that Saddam Hussein (pardon my spelling if that is not correct, 'scuse me), had ties and had been subject to influences which went back to - are you ready for this - Adolph Hitler! Yep, what you had there in Iraq was a sort of secular, middle eastern fascism with roots in Nazi Germany. And if anybody thinks that Saddam's old regieme was not going to try to get weapons of mass destruction and use them, well, in that case, I have title to the Vatican and will be glad to sell it to you cheap! Send me $10,000 in unmarked bills, please!  Also, Saddam's two sons were EVIL, WICKED MONSTERS and we had all better be glad that they are GONE and not going to succeed their father over there! No matter how bad things are now, involving Iraq and the middle east, it COULD have been far, far WORSE!!!
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RodBod
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| Joined: | Fri Feb 8th, 2008 |
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| First Name: | Cliff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised SDA, Generic Christian, Roman Catholic |
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Posted: Thu May 1st, 2008 01:46 am |
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I see that traitor's face on every newscast everyday. Do I have to look at him too????? 
____________________
Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi; miserere nobis.
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JasPax
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| Joined: | Wed Nov 22nd, 2006 |
| Location: | North Carolina USA |
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| First Name: | James | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Episcopal to Catholic |
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Posted: Thu May 1st, 2008 02:24 am |
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Hello,
I am somewhat confused about Rev. Wright's denominational affiliation. I thought the United Church of Christ was a white, suburban, liberal group. I understood that, like some other groups that have taken a port tack (Left for you landlubbers) for the last half century, their numbers had decreased dramatically.
Am I thinking of the wrong denomination? It is hard to keep them all straight.
Regards,
____________________
James
"Abide in me, and I in you..." John 15:4
"He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him." John 6:56
RSV-2CE
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Steven Barrett
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| Joined: | Tue Nov 14th, 2006 |
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Posted: Thu May 1st, 2008 04:08 am |
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James,
The UCC Wright ran in Chicago's a lot different than the usual UCC churches most of think of, but it belongs to the same denomination. The UCC is the direct lineal heir of the original Yankee Puritan theocracy that ran New England. Indeed, over the years it liberalized quite a bit. But at one time it was very conservative. It's always had a veneer of anti-Catholicism, politely expressed of course.
Ahem, Of Course.
At first they didn't like us simply because we're Papists. When the Civil War came they were more than happy to urge jihad against the South more to bust up slavery than to save the Union. Yet, so long as they had Catholics who had a (to be polite, of course) challenging time finding decent employment, this also meant they had a ready supply of men who were more than willing to make the choice between working in their unsafe factories or being paid to do their dirty work in their crusade against Dixie. Mind you, there was no legal discrimination against Freed Blacks, but plenty of it against Catholics, the Irish in particular (and with relish) -- and all of this was with the blessings of the Congregationalists, who had also migrated westward to the then-"West" or what we call the Midwest nowadays.
It's pretty hard to pry apart the strong association the UCC has with birth control programs and of late, full-bore abortion to the fullest availability possible. Why such a strong linkage? To keep the Yankees and their fellow Congregationalists on top and those lesser and swarthy immigrants who could never seem to stop reproducing from taking over their Yankee Kingdom.
It's also no small coincidence that the GOP in New England was also THE birth control party, especially in New England and throughout the Northeast in general. If the guardians of privilege couldn't win at the ballot box by convincing people to vote for buy into their ideas and candidates, they weren't going to stop at making sure there wouldn't be enough of those immigrant folks, (or even their less fortunate and more rural "Swamp Yankee" cousins) to share any political and economic power with. Heavens no! That'd mean the rise of Catholics, especially the Irish and yes, their version of the stereotypical "poor white trailer trash" Southerners from rising -- "Swamp Yankees." Don't be fooled by that. Very few Swamp Yankees ever lived in trailer homes/camps and many of them are well off, and not because they inherited their money, either.
And as for the "PWT," hell, I'd rather spend any time with those folks than any of the rich (or tenured) and very patronizing white Yankees who've proved in the past, just as they are now with Obama's Adlai Stevenson "democrats," that they haven't learned anything in 200+ years except how to divide people by religion, class and race to suit their purposes every time they get a chance.
When Wright's willing to own up to his denomination's role in the events leading up to the War Between the States, its hypocrisy towards white european (Catholic) immigrants and its moral blindness concerning birth control and especially abortion -- well, I guess that'll be the day Satan's seen prowling through L.L. Bean's in Maine looking for deep winter wear.
My apologies to the Congies if my preference for a balanced look at history prevents me from politely pulling any punches on facts -- of course.
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For anyone suffering from a mental illness or has a loved one with a mental illness, my book "Lead kindly Light: A Devotional For The Mentally Ill" might be of some help: http://www.lulu.com/ (Use search box at the top of page.)
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Dave Armstrong
Network Apologist
| Joined: | Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 |
| Location: | Melvindale, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 1414 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Evangelical "Jesus Freak" (Arminian) / "Lewisian Schaefferite" / Catholic |
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Posted: Fri May 2nd, 2008 07:22 pm |
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| If anyone is interested, I have a much more in-depth treatment of Wright's views in a new paper, in dialogue with an African-American woman, including analysis of his complete "post 9-11" sermon (after being challenged to do so) and complete transcript of the National Press Club remarks. As one would fully expect from me, I emphasize the hypocrisy and unbiblical notion of excoriating injustice and oppression, while at the same time completely ignoring the issue of abortion.
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I'm happy to offer whatever theological & personal assistance I can. My blog, Biblical Evidence for Catholicism, contains 1900+ papers & web pages (absolutely free) & 16 apologetic books (for sale):
http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/
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