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CajunRick
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Posted: Tue Feb 20th, 2007 02:18 am |
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By ELIZABETH A. KENNEDY, Associated Press Writer
Anglican leaders demanded Monday that the U.S. Episcopal Church unequivocally bar official prayers for gay couples and the consecration of more gay bishops to undo the damage that North Americans have caused the Anglican family.
In a statement ending a tense six-day meeting, the leaders said that past pledges by Episcopalians for a moratorium on gay unions and consecrations have been so ambiguous that they have failed to fully mend "broken relationships" in the 77 million-member Anglican Communion.
The Episcopal Church, the U.S. wing of world Anglicanism, must clarify its position by Sept. 30 or its relations with other Anglicans will remain "damaged at best."
"This has consequences for the full participation of the church in the life of the communion," the leaders said.
The meeting in Tanzania was the latest of several attempts to keep Anglicans unified despite deep rifts over how they should interpret the Bible. The long-simmering debate erupted in 2003 when Episcopalians consecrated the first openly gay bishop, V. Gene Robinson of New Hampshire.
Anglican traditionalists believe gay relationships violate Scripture and they have demanded that the U.S. church adhere to that teaching or face discipline.
Supporters of ordaining gays believe biblical teachings on justice and inclusion should take precedence. They have accused theological conservatives of demanding a conformity among Anglicans that never before existed. The communion was founded in the 16th century by King Henry VIII and spread worldwide by the British Empire.
Discussions at the closed-door gathering this past week were so highly charged that drafting the final statement for the 38 Anglican provinces took hours longer than expected.
In 2005, Anglican leaders had asked the Episcopal Church to temporarily stop electing gay bishops and developing official prayer services for same-sex couples.
The top Episcopal policy making body, called General Convention, responded by asking church leaders to "exercise restraint by not consenting to the consecration" of candidates for bishop "whose manner of life presents a challenge to the wider church." The request is not binding.
On official prayer services, the convention rejected proposals for a churchwide liturgy for gay partners. However, a small number of U.S. dioceses have moved toward developing local prayers and some dioceses have allowed priests to conduct the ceremonies privately.
Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams, the spiritual leader of the communion, does not have direct authority to force a compromise. He said the requests contained in the document released Monday "will certainly fall very short of resolving all the disputes, but will provide a way of moving forward with dignity."
Canon Kendall Harmon of the Diocese of South Carolina, a leader among Episcopal traditionalists, said the document "is not everything I would have wanted," but he was encouraged that Anglican leaders "made specific calls with specific deadlines."
However, the advocacy group Integrity, which represents Episcopal gays and lesbians, accused the leaders of bigotry, and urged Episcopalians to lobby their bishops to reject the demands.
Episcopal Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori, who supports gay relationships, said in a brief statement after she left the meeting that talks among Anglicans must continue.
The final statement from Anglican leaders expressed worry over feuding within the Episcopal Church and the wider communion. Some U.S. parishes have left the Episcopal Church to affiliate with Anglicans in Africa. Nigerian Archbishop Peter Akinola has set up a network for conservative U.S. parishes as a rival to the Episcopal Church. Lawsuits have been filed over Virginia-area churches that joined with Akinola and want to take their property with them.
Anglican leaders called on all sides in the conflict to end their lawsuits and recommended the creation of a pastoral council and a special vicar to oversee the minority of conservative U.S. dioceses and parishes that feel they cannot accept Jefferts Schori's leadership. Among the goals of the plan is to create an alternative so U.S. parishes stop affiliating with overseas Anglicans — a violation of communion tradition.
Anglican leaders also released a draft set of common principles meant to allow Anglican provinces to remain independent, but recognize their actions have an impact on each other.
The proposed Anglican Covenant, which will likely be revised before it is finalized years from now, states that a church could lose full membership in "extreme circumstances" but could take steps to regain its full member status.
The above article is reposted from Yahoo!
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shawnbm
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| First Name: | Shawn | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Cradle Episcopalian (Anglo-Catholic) |
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Posted: Wed Feb 21st, 2007 01:08 pm |
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| I recently responded to this on another thread within this topic. Our Presiding Bishop has called for a kind of "fast" this Lent to reflect on these issues. In this regard she is asking the Episcopal bishops to refrain from blessing same-sex couples and to discontinue consecrating new bishops and priests who are non-celibate gays and lesbians. She is likewise pleading that the Global South Anglicans who have serious objections to women clergy and the ordination of +Robinson refrain from meddling in Episcopal Church dioceses by offering "alternative primatial oversight". I like our Presiding Bishop's "Reflections" on the meetings in Tanzania and would recommend everyone read it to get a better handle on where she is coming from. She is thoughtful and obviously is pained by having to go through this. My prayers are with her and I ask for your prayers for all of us. Shalom.
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Steven Barrett
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Posted: Wed Feb 21st, 2007 03:11 pm |
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Pleading and asking won't do the trick for the PB. She hasn't the solid ecclesiastical authority needed to stop the secession movement, nor enough heft to prevent the more radical elements of her flock from ordaining more non-celibate homosexuals, nor could she even legally stop any priest from blessing these illegitimate "marriages."
I'll pray for her and TEC. But, I can't help offering some observations as well. At one time I even thought about joining TEC, even lately, and for reasons that couldn't surpass what i should've never lost sight of when it came to comparing the riches of Roman Catholicism to the moral ambiguity of TEC--I had no logical alternative to passing and sticking with what's impossible to surpass in truth, beauty and pedigree. Rome has had her share of rogue popes, cardinals, etc., but the Founder of the Catholic Church was never a serial mysoginist.
The KJSs of the ECUSA and many baby boomer theological liberals who never got the Sixties out of their system are by and large responsible for the decline of her denomination. The ECUSA is falling because of the weight of all its liberal changes which have only succeeded in setting itself apart from its own Communion, not to mention the Catholic Church.
In many ways she also represents the intellectually snobbish sector of my baby boomer generation that all of a sudden felt clever enough to figure out that having large families means more expenses. And, good heavens, those expenses might keep their kids from getting into a prestige college, whilst still managing to hold on to their mcmansions, etc. So, apparently, the Episcopalians, being also so much more intellectually gifted than those dumb Catholics and Mormons, were astute enough to de-breed themselves almost out of existence. By the way, Europeans are falling for the same faulty logic, and guess who's replacing them? Not Mormons or even more Catholics and Protestants. Hmmm, no. Try Muslims.
Let the intellectually and/or theologically and cleverly snobbish folks snub their noses at large families; sticking to scriptural truth; respecting both Church history and tradition; and letting sexual deviants determine what sin is or isn't. If they want chaff, they'll get it in spades. In the meantime the traditionalist Anglicans and Catholics will reap the wheat.
Right now Jefferts-Schori, et al, are reaping what they've sown for the past thirty years. The harvest is bleak and it doesn't look the people running it are really smart enough to keep the farm.
 Last edited on Wed Feb 21st, 2007 03:16 pm by Steven Barrett
____________________
James Michael Curley to a young Thomas “Tip” O’Neill -- “Son, it’s nice to be important, but it’s more important to be nice.”
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JasPax
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Posted: Wed Feb 21st, 2007 03:30 pm |
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Shawnbm wrote, "She is thoughtful and obviosly pained by having to go through all this."
Really? Maybe she should have thought about the pain she and her cohorts were bringing to faithful Episcopalians when they embraced the non-celibate homosexual V. Gene Robinson in his new role as a bishop of that denomination. Is she thoughtful as she aids her denomonation's slide into Universalism, leaving orthodox Episcopalians no choice but to reject her leadership?
Too bad she is, "having to go through all this," but she brought it all on herself.
In another generation the U.S. Episcopal Church will be a social club and a historical curiosity. She and her liberal, relativist sisters and brothers can share the pain.
Any denomination born in schism will never be settled.
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James
"Abide in me, and I in you..." John 15:4
"He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him." John 6:56
RSV-2CE
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CajunRick
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Posted: Wed Feb 21st, 2007 04:11 pm |
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| I wonder how the ECUSA would feel about ordaining a heterosexual bishop in a long-term, committed relationship without the benefit of marriage? Are there any such bishops in the church today? How about priests?
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Steven Barrett
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| First Name: | Steven | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, Episcopal communicant, Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Feb 21st, 2007 04:47 pm |
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| If one is to be "irregular" these days, I suppose it'd be safer to be politically correct in the process. In other words, instead of having a hetereosexual shack-up relationship, it'd have to be like Gene Robinson's.
____________________
James Michael Curley to a young Thomas “Tip” O’Neill -- “Son, it’s nice to be important, but it’s more important to be nice.”
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sewnsew
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Posted: Wed Feb 21st, 2007 04:53 pm |
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| good question-
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shawnbm
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| First Name: | Shawn | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Cradle Episcopalian (Anglo-Catholic) |
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Posted: Wed Feb 21st, 2007 08:39 pm |
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| Charity, my good people. You'd think we were talking about the bottom of the barrel, with the bottom dwellers being a mischieviousl lot. I can tell you from personal experience that the Episcopalians I know are a caring and warm bunch. They believe too many Christians (Catholics being a notable exception) are too focused on personal salvation so as to not be "Left behind", the prayer of Jabez in order to obtain riches in this world tenfold as a mark of being truly Christian and that social justice (something we Anglicans take from our Catholic heritage pretty seriously) is something almost frowned upon since unsaved, "nominal" Christians bring these things on themselves. They believe social justice principles in the New Testament and in the writings of the prophets trump or supercede the Levitical Code (most of which is irrelevant to modern society as a matter of practicality), i.e., what you do privately is less important than the good works you do to help others and your community. I know some of you will say it is "both/and" not "either/or", but I mention this only to say that you are not talking about people who do not love the Lord or stand in the way of trying to create peace "on earth ... as it is in heaven". You can disagree with them, but I wanted to at least defend my lifelong Church which has been closer to the RC in theology and adhering to the apostolic faith more than any other Protestant body through the centuries. As for the Presiding Bishop, I stand by what I have said--it is a difficult time--and she is not to blame (I might add). Peace.
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CajunRick
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Posted: Wed Feb 21st, 2007 09:11 pm |
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shawnbm wrote: Charity, my good people.
We are not talking about the members of the church, but rather the disintegration of doctrinal integrity within the heirarchy, and I am sure many, if not the majority, of the church's members are concerned and perhaps even embarrassed by the situation.
I think it is an example of the danger of removing the authority of the Magisterium from the three legs of Truth, and replacing it with popular elections.
There have been some similar problems within the Orthodox Churches, although mechanisms are in place there to prevent the extent of problems the Anglican Communion is currently experiencing.
I understand that the heirarchy is made up of people who are honestly doing what they think is right, but I believe they have substituted their own opinions for the teachings of our Savior.
And I believe the question about heterosexual cohabitation among the heirarchy is a fair one. I asked it honestly, because I don't know the church's position. And I believe that if women are allowed to become bishops, and those who are cohabitating, it is not a far stretch to see the church ordaining an unmarried, pregnant lesbian as bishop.
And I think it is very sad.
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shawnbm
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Posted: Thu Feb 22nd, 2007 12:08 pm |
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I think your hypothetical is a fair one, and--you should not be too surprised--I don't know if the Episcopal Church has a formal position on that, although at one time it certainly would have condemned any such effort. A mantra in the ECUSA is "it's about grace, not the law", and that is true, but it is not the whole truth. That is why I have said on another post we find ourselves in a kind of self-imposed (through the last 500 years) "adolescence" wherein we are learning that reason (as the third leg of the stool) and the lack of a binding teaching authority inevitably leads to fractioned groups. The democratization of the Sacred Scriptures, along with mass production of a truncated form of the Bible, has let the proverbial cat out of the bag and I don't know if it will ever get back in there. Otherwise, our Presiding Bishop has inherited this and I pray she and the other bishops do what God wills, which I hope is to keep the AC together and for the ECUSA to modify its haphazard manner of dealing with these issues. Pax tecum.
P.S. Sorry for my initial comment; I may have reacted viscerally without thinking. You have always been amongst the most charitable in your posts and replies. God bless you.
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Darlene
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Posted: Thu Feb 22nd, 2007 02:57 pm |
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Shawn,
The Lutheran Church has also gone the way of the Episcopalians. And both were founded in rebellion and schism. As for me, a Protestant of 30+yrs, I find the thousands of denominations and counting, disheartening. I am finding that there is no longer any loyalty within me toward any Protestant denomination. Or for that matter, any non-denominational Protestant version of Christianity as well, mega-churches included. My feet are walking more swiftly toward Rome these days than ever before.
Love in Christ,
Darlene
____________________
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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shawnbm
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| First Name: | Shawn | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Cradle Episcopalian (Anglo-Catholic) |
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Posted: Thu Feb 22nd, 2007 04:46 pm |
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| I am doing a bit of soul searching myself--something some have picked up on in the last 10 months or so. I find myself very troubled by what is happening in the Anglican Communion, which used to be able to legitimately call itself a branch of the one holy, catholic and apostolic Church (at least in its own eyes--I realize many RCs take exception and appreciate their reasons) until this century. I fail to see how we are much different than a number of other Protestant denominations I have felt were rather unorthodox in their thinking. I am praying a lot these days--God knows how all of this will turn out. I am happy to hear you find yourself on a journey that feels right to you. Peace.
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Annie
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Posted: Thu Feb 22nd, 2007 05:12 pm |
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| The whole situation is just sad, there could have been a way to avoid all this at many different places along the road but people were too busy with their own concerns. The pain of a church home falling apart is just terrible. I went through it once.
____________________
Annie
Ora et labora
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Ruthie
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Posted: Thu Feb 22nd, 2007 05:17 pm |
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I can't help but think of Peter after he and the disciples heard the difficult teaching of eating Jesus' flesh and drinking his blood, and Jesus asked if they too would leave him. Peter said, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life....You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." (John 6: 68-69)
If not the Catholic Church, to whom shall we go? Who has the words of eternal life?
For me it's Christ, speaking through his instituted church on earth, the Catholic Church, the original church which is faithful to His teachings.
There are obstacles to my journey too, sometimes discouraging, but I always ask "To whom shall I go?" and I know the Roman road is the only road. I'm already there but for one huge difficulty that I don't know how to resolve. I put it in the Lord's hands. What else can I do? To whom shall I go?
Ruthie
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Truly I tell you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will never enter it. (NRSV, Luke 18:17)
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