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lapsedConvert
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| Joined: | Fri Jul 25th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 19 |
| First Name: | lapsedConvert | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Fundamentalist, Non-denom |
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Posted: Fri Jul 25th, 2008 04:39 pm |
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| Hi. This is my first post. I have been coming to the Catholic church for 4 years. I was raised Baptist and studied to be a missionary and then after seminary I began wondering why Catholics believe the "crazy stuff" they believe so I started attending a parish, reading books, surfing the internet and interrogating my priest. Now I want to join and my husband thinks I am the anti-Christ (and I know why he thinks that. I thought that. But he won't let me explain). There are some sectors in the Church which are almost totally relativistic, some priests who teach "Jesus never claimed to be God" etc. and sometimes I think I am making a bad decision too. But when I go to mass all I see is Jesus. My husband and I have always shared our faith. Not being able to share with him something so important hurts terribly. I feel not welcomed in my own home. He doesn't even want to know why I am considering this. SO, when I first came to the Church it was like springtime was in my soul. Everything was clean and new and I had found home. But now there is so much time elapsed in "limbo" and so many layers of pain that sometimes I just cry through daily mass and other times I just don't go to any church at all. My soul is tired. How do I regain my joy and remember why I came here in the first place? I remeber the first few months I came to mass when I thought I was doing something wrong. My heart would pound and my hands would sweat and I would think. "I'm going to Hell. I"m so happy!!!" Do any of you know how I feel? How do you keep your joy? This is making me not able to find God in ANY church.
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brian
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 892 |
| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
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Posted: Fri Jul 25th, 2008 05:23 pm |
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Let me first of all say I am glad to welcome you to the forum (though I am just another poster). I am sure there are some here who can relate to you. There are some situations that improved and some that probably did not. My fiance'e is entering the church in 3 weeks and I am very blessed as we started dating when I was first becoming Catholic and she was more just seeking. Luckily, I did know that she would accept me for being Catholic though she was from a Baptist background. My mother at one point was very opposed to me considering the Catholic Church but then years later when I finally did make up my mind to join she had mellowed out a bit. My fiance'e's parents were very disapproving as well. Now they still are, but they accept it and treat us okay in spite of their concern. The Holy Spirit can soften hearts. But some people face more severe problems that do not seem to be resolved.
I honestly do not know what I can say to you, other than I will pray for you and your husband. The usual things to say are to just be patient and pray. To try to let your life show how a person can be Catholic and still devoted to Jesus. Let your light shine as best you can and be cautious about opportunitites to explain yourself. Do not try too hard but maybe wait until he is more ready to hear you out. Do not seem too eager to explain unless you see an open door. That is my advice, though you may want to consider other things.
As far as rediscovering the joy. This is tough. Sometimes our circumstances are such that joy as we want it or know it is a bit out of reach. And who can blame you. My advice is simply to hold on. To persevere. God is so good and loving and faithful to you. You may suffer, and it may be great, but He is always with you. No matter what else He will never forsake you. I just pray that you will simply be honest and follow Him wherever He leads and whatever the cost. But we know there will be a cost. As far as joy is concerned, I do not know how and when you will get it back. Just keep in mind that sometimes there is great honor in suffering or being persecuted for the faith. I believe you are participating in the very suffering and rejection that Christ shares with us to make us more like Him, who was rejected by those who He loved so dearly and even in His home town. Let the Blessed Mother Mary console you. Try to keep in prayer, and if possible try to find a place to participate in Eucharistic Adoration and cast your cares upon Him and just sit in His presence and offer yourself to Him accepting whatever consolation He will give you. But try not to worry if you 'feel' beter, so much as know that moments spent at the feet of Jesus are always going to be fruitful for our sanctification and His pleasure in us and that He joins with us. in our suferings.
I guess I am trying to trying to tell you that I do not know when and if or how you will feel better, but am encouraging you to fight and persist. To suffer well and offer your suffering to Him maybe even for the benefit of your husband. Try to love and help your husband as best you can and hopefully over time things will change. In the meantime you have our support. Maybe instead of asking, how can I get my joy back, you could ask a tougher question: how can I patiently endure and please my Lord until such time as my joy may or may not return? How can this trial bring me into deeper intimacy with Christ and renew my commitment to Him? How do I avoid becoming so discouraged as to give up? God may not instantly change your emotions or circumstances like we would like Him to, but He can and will faithfully give you the graces and strength you need. A phrase I would like to beter hold on to myself in difficult moments: Jesus, I trust in you.
Anyway, I really am sory about your situation and feel like there is little I can offer more than prayer and a few words. Forgive me if I have said to much of the wrong thing.
Brian
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sewnsew
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 905 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Fri Jul 25th, 2008 05:31 pm |
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| Welcome to the forum- many of us have been where you are now. You need to get out of Limbo as you put it- RCIA classes are starting up in the next month or so in most parishes- some are great others well not so much BUT you can always supplement a weak program with other resources including this forum. Since as much as he may not like it your husband hasn't actually forbidden you to join the catholic church ( from what you have written anyhow) I would try not to engage in debates with him, he isn't ready to hear you. Leave books on the coffee table or book shelf, if you have EWTN , watch the Journey home on Monday nights if you can. Go ahead and become Catholic- once you do you will find peace again. What many of us do is attend Mass on our own either on Saturday or sometime on Sunday but we also go with our families to their service. We don't take communion but we do sing etc. This will promote some unity in the family. I look at the protestant services that I attend with the family kind of like going to Christian music festivals. I have a subscription to The word Among us- it has readings for each day, mediations and the liturgy. There are also web sites that have daily prayer- universalis is one and it can be loaded on to a palm or mpg3 type tool. The rosary can be obtained on CD-and loaded on to an ipod or such- I find that praying even one decade a day is helpful. Rosaries are available on rings or on little credit card things and I find that just saying the Rosary every day with a prayer before each set of beads for my issues- You are leaving one culture and trying to enter another- Satan loves to derail us when we are vulnerable
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lapsedConvert
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| First Name: | lapsedConvert | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Fundamentalist, Non-denom |
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Posted: Fri Jul 25th, 2008 06:16 pm |
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| Thanks Brian and Kim! After years of no one understanding it is such a relief to receive support so soon after my first post. I appreciate all of your advice and prayers. God bless!
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David W. Emery
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
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| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Sat Jul 26th, 2008 03:12 am |
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lapsedConvert wrote:My husband and I have always shared our faith. Not being able to share with him something so important hurts terribly. I feel not welcomed in my own home. He doesn't even want to know why I am considering this.
Is he actively preventing or forbidding you from proceeding? Or is he merely registering his disapproval?
If the latter, what have you to fear besides a continuation of what you already experience? The day may come when he asks, as you did, about that “crazy stuff” of Catholicism. If you stay where you are, how can you answer? But if you move to partake, your life will show him what he is missing.
I realize that there is often this discordant response from family members, especially spouses, who at present have no intention of following you in your journey of faith. I experienced the same thing when I became Catholic back in the 60s, and relations haven’t improved much with some family members since then. But that didn’t stop me from doing what I knew was right, precisely because I knew it was right.
You do not keep the joy by allowing others to take that joy from you, forcing you to conform instead to their ideology and expectations. You keep the joy by doing what God requires, because joy is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit dwells in those who are obedient to the truth He offers (John 14:16–17).
As much as you want your husband to join you in that joy, he is not ready to do so. His joy will have to wait until he is able to see the joy you have and come to want it as you do. You accomplish this not by words, but by living your faith, by accepting the pain of being separated from him in this most intimate part of your life in order to experience the joy that heals all pain.
Four years of anguish over your husband’s reaction is a long time to suffer. But it will just continue if you make no effort to resolve it. I do not want to see you become resentful of your husband because he prevented you, by his disapproval, from partaking of the joy you have found. That is self-defeat of the worst kind.
In the wounds of Christ there is healing. If you are torn from him by your loved ones, will you find healing in them? Or will there be only more wounds?
Do these thoughts make sense to you, Trish? I’m not here to push you into accepting the Catholic faith; you have already accepted it. You only need to see that four years of waiting for your husband’s heart to open is long enough. A Christian (so we hear in the rite of baptism as the newly baptized is signed with holy oil) is a prophet, a priest, and a king. How are you exercising these offices in your present state?
David
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mg57
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Connecticut USA |
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| First Name: | mg57 | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Infant Baptised Catholic |
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Posted: Sat Jul 26th, 2008 03:34 am |
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Trish -
Don't ever believe that suffering of any kind is wasted, God uses everything for the good. One of the good things is that we have Christian "mentors" of every sort and for every circumstance. Have a look -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elisabeth_Leseur
http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Diary-Elisabeth-Leseur-Goodness/dp/1928832482
http://www.catholic.net/rcc/Periodicals/Faith/0102-97/bio.html
God Bless.
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Intercessor
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| Joined: | Tue Sep 25th, 2007 |
| Location: | Southcentral, Kentucky USA |
| Posts: | 1423 |
| First Name: | Becky | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Southern Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Sat Jul 26th, 2008 07:22 am |
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lapsedConvert wrote: I have been coming to the Catholic church for 4 years. . . . But now there is so much time elapsed in "limbo" and so many layers of pain. . . . My soul is tired. How do I regain my joy. . . ?
Welcome to the forum, Trish. You have already received wonderful responses. I have nothing to add except to stress certain points in my own words.
In your situation the only joy to be found is in obedient acceptance of the suffering. Our Baptist tradition usually focused on asking God to keep suffering out of our lives or to remove, right away, whatever suffering had come into our lives. It may take you a while to adjust to the Catholic view of suffering, Trish.
Work toward understanding that God's priority is transforming you into the image of His Son; it is not protecting you from pain, loneliness, rejection, humiliation, and difficulty. Learn to expect a certain amount (sometimes a lot) of suffering in your life; focus on finding the joy in life in spite of your pain, in the midst of your pain. Eventually, you will realize the necessity of suffering in bringing about God's plans for us.
I do understand your heart, Trish. Right now I also carry a cross. The answer is not in refusing the suffering or in angrily struggling against it. Rather, joy (peace) comes in humbly picking up the cross God has given us and offering thanks that, in His mercy, He will use exactly that cross to transform us into the image of Christ and to accomplish His purposes in the lives of others. When seen in that light, the cross itself (the suffering) becomes a friend, a redeemer, a precious gift from the One who loves us so dearly.
I hope you will get into the Church as quickly as you can. You need the strength to be found in frequent reception of the Eucharist and the sacrament of penance. Brian also gave you important counsel when he urged attending Eucharistic Adoration and seeking the Blessed Mother's intercession.
Make this important shift in your prayers: ask for strength to be obedient in carrying whatever cross God gives you, instead of asking to be spared all crosses. As Baptists, we didn't know what to do with Col. 1:24. Ask God to apply your present suffering toward a change in your husband's heart. Your cross will be easier to bear once you realize that your suffering can work toward bringing him into the Church (if you offer it up to God for that purpose).
Stay in touch with us, Trish.
God bless you,
Becky Last edited on Sat Jul 26th, 2008 09:25 am by Intercessor
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Consider it all joy, my brothers, when you encounter various trials. . .the testing of your faith produces perseverance. Blessed is the man who perseveres in temptation, for when he has been proved he will receive the crown of life. . . NAB James 1:2-4,12
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Howard the Pilgrim
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| Joined: | Sun Dec 16th, 2007 |
| Location: | Lamar, Colorado USA |
| Posts: | 79 |
| First Name: | Howard | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | United Presbyterian, non-denom, American Baptist, non-denom, Conservative Baptist, United Methodist ... |
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Posted: Sat Jul 26th, 2008 02:51 pm |
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Welcome, Trish. You will see Baptist (American and Conservative) in my varied background.
You have received a lot of good counsel from other forum members and we will be praying for you and your husband.
I just want to encourage you as Jesus said "to seek first God's kingdom and all these things will be added unto you." There is nothing so winsome as a godly life, when people can see Jesus in you. That is the way I became a believer in the first place. I also learned it when I lost the spiritual respect of my wife and my children. Talk is cheap. So I learned to stop talking and start walking with Jesus. I let Him handle my family. And guess what, they now respect me and can see Jesus in me. It has taken years and it was difficult and painful but I am glad it happened to me because I might never have gone deep with Jesus otherwise. Saint Peter has a lot to say about how to handle suffering situations like ours in his first letter.
Since churches are supposed to be hospitals for sinners, you will always find the destructive and corrupting influences of sin alongside beauty, godliness and blessing.
God is at work in your present situation changing you and others even if you can't see it right now.
May God bless you and draw you into His heart of love so that you may find your joy there.
Howard the Pilgrim
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lapsedConvert
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| Joined: | Fri Jul 25th, 2008 |
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| First Name: | lapsedConvert | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Fundamentalist, Non-denom |
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Posted: Sat Jul 26th, 2008 07:47 pm |
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| Hi Guys! Thank you for the great responses. Your support has lifted a black cloud off my heart. Something else I want to bring up is that one of the things I had a hard time with is the different views of soteriology (how Jesus saves people exactly). Protestants believe that everyone is headed for hell and Jesus died on the cross to intervene and we receive that by accepting His Lordship, consciously in a "conversion experience" or through faith formation as long as our participation in ff is sincere and not just to please our parents etc. The Catholic Church seems to believe that Jesus' incarnation made all humans a little good and that if anyone wants to be saved they will be because God sees the heart. So for a Catholic to hear that you hope your non-Christian friend will 'come to Christ" sounds just horribly judgemental. That isn't necessary! There are many paths to God. I have also read a book by a priest that says "Jesus never claimed to be God and that hell is just "the nhilistic existance we impose on ourselves when we separate from community" and that Jesus never meant to start a church. This guy is the head of religion at Notre Dame (and the liturgical consultant for the DaVinci code movie) and I DON"T think he is most Catholics but the fact remains that he is spouting that stuff off the altar and wearing a collar, which makes it sound like Jesus' divinity is optional in the Church. I was never offended that I couldn't take the Host, because of Paul's caution about bringing judgement on ones self. Even when/if I DO disagree with someone I can't be mad at them for wanting to keep me out of Hell (painful, fiery Protestant Hell. The nhilistic experience just sounds like my sophomore year. That wouldn't be so bad.) . But if Jesus might be God or might not be God why is his body a big deal? And who is His Mother? If Jesus is just a cleaver near eastern kid with some keen insights I may as well bow to a Wheat Thin and say a Rosary to Anne Meara. At least Ben Stiller is funny. OK, see, all that stuff I said is just rude and I am so sorry, but this is another huge block to my comming through RCIA. I could sit there thinking "Watermellon watermellon one mississippi...." and tough it out telling myself "Just be quiet and you can have the Eucharist, just be quiet and you can have the Eucharist..." but this is part of my husband's resistance. I am now reading some EWTN stuff and the CCC and that helps a bit, but is that really the church I am joining? Every one of the converts in the books I read knows or works with Scott Hahn. While CatHahnicism is a fuller revelation of my faith in Christ "whatever you believe is fine as long as you're sincere" is a different gospel indeed. Every Catholic I know in town raises their eyebrows and becomes quiet when you mention EWTN, as if you just announced you are part of a militia. So my husband is concerned that the Church is not what I think it is, and I am too, but at this point I would walk on hot coals to take communion. I don't know how to talk about this with people without sounding like a jerk. Please don't ban me! Father just says "Bless your heart, you are just passionate about what you believe. That's OK." But is it what the Church believes? Am I crazy?
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setapart
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| Joined: | Sat Jan 13th, 2007 |
| Location: | Austin, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 266 |
| First Name: | Bill | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Born Catholic, Non-Denominational Charismatic, Catholic |
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Posted: Sat Jul 26th, 2008 08:54 pm |
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Trish,
What really counts is what YOU believe as you study orthodox Catholic teaching. Jesus said to be aware of wolves that will come around and not spare the flock. I remember watching Mother Angelica many years ago. She was taking calls. One of them was from young lady who said in confession to the priest that she was living with her fiance. She was relating how she was shocked when the priest told her that it was OK as long as they loved each other. Mother Angelica's comments concerning the priest were not very kind. They were along the lines of the blind leading the blind but in her cut to the chase manner of speaking.
Jesus said that at the end His angels will root out of his Kingdom all that offends, separating the chaff from the wheat and placing it in the fire. St. Paul mentioned that God know those who are His. I know it is very upsetting to me when I hear certain priests or religious say things that are not confromed to the Magisteriums teaching.
Even among the evangelical community there is alot of teaching that is not right. Unfortunately when Catholics believe things that are not right we receive much harsher cricitism than those on their side of the "error train tracks"
There is the oneness doctrine, speaking in tongues to get saved, militant pre-tribulation pro- Israel doctrines, and many other aberant teachings that get overlooked as non-essential.
I kept this reply a little earthy so show that there are Mud Puddles on both sides of the tracks in the "town" of Christianity. Whatever side of the tracks we live on we need to keep our eyes on Jesus and stay true to Him and have confidence that He is still with us even to the end of the age.
God Bless,
Bill
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But for you who fear my name, the Sun of Righteousness will rise with healing in his wings. And you will go free, leaping with joy like calves let out to pasture. Mal 4:2
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David W. Emery
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
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Posted: Sat Jul 26th, 2008 09:03 pm |
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I don't know how to talk about this with people without sounding like a jerk. Please don't ban me!
Nobody’s going to ban you, Trish. We understand exactly where you are coming from. Many of us have “been there, done that,” and the older we are when we start our journey, the worse it is.
It’s easy to get confused, to get angry over the perversions one sees in bad Catholics. The founder of this apostolate, Marcus Grodi, has catalogued a number of reasons why people reject the Catholic Church. Number one on the list is the anti-Catholic preaching they hear from the Church’s enemies. From your description, you know all about that. Number two is — you guessed it — bad Catholics. And unfortunately, there are a lot of them, because sin is attractive. Isn’t that why human beings sin in the first place?
I’ve known many a Catholic who doesn’t believe what the Church teaches. That doesn’t mean the Church teaches what he actually believes; it means he is deviant in his belief and is separating himself from the Church in that way. And you know what? I’ve known a lot of Protestants who don’t believe what they were “supposed to,” according to their denomination’s enunciated creed. And Jews and Buddhists who don’t believe, too. Look at the Jews in the bible: did they all believe in the same thing? No. The Pharisees believed in the resurrection of the dead, but the Sadducees did not. The Jews of the Diaspora accepted more books as inspired by God than those in Palestine. Et cetera.
So what makes the Catholic Church special? Authority. As Jesus said to the people, and especially to his disciples, “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat; so practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do; for they preach, but do not practice” (Matthew 23:2–3). Likewise in Christianity we have an authority; and as with the scribes and Pharisees, a few even of the priests and bishops are not true to God, as you have experienced. Did the bad Jewish leaders nullify the validity of the Jewish religion? No; Jesus insists it does not. He makes a careful distinction and tells us to follow the traditional teachings but not to emulate the big-mouthed hypocrites. And neither does a bad Catholic, even a bad priest, nullify the truth of the Catholic Church. Just avoid them and attend to the true teaching, which is readily available.
Why is authority important? So that you will be able to know the truth and be certain that it is the truth and not just somebody’s opinion.
The Catholic Church seems to believe that Jesus' incarnation made all humans a little good and that if anyone wants to be saved they will be because God sees the heart.
Our belief is actually a bit closer to the Protestant position than that, but for the time being I’ll allow you to read the Catechism and discover for yourself how the Catholic Church sees it. My point in referring to this comment is that you do see that Catholics tend to be less judgmental than some of the harder-line Protestants. Many a Protestant has told me that unless I belong to his congregation — not denomination, not merely Christian, but a specific congregation — I will fry in hell. Catholics, on the other hand, allow that non-Catholics and even non-Christians may be saved if certain conditions are met.
So what the priest told you is right on the mark. You’re fine with him. You don’t have to pay attention to those phoneys who sound the trumpet about “Jesus never claimed to be God.” Of course he did! “Before Abraham came to be, I AM.” And they picked up rocks to stone him because he called himself the Son of God. (cf. John 8:48–59) I read it in the bible as a child and have believed it since I was eight years old. It’s one of the reasons I rejected the Protestant church I was raised in and became Catholic: they claimed not to believe in the divinity of Christ, and it was quite clear to me from the bible that he was a divine Person; otherwise, as you say, it comes down to a relativistic “whatever you believe is fine, as long as you’re sincere,” and the bible isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on.
So you bet, Trish, there is a lot of truth in what you say. And this forum exists to help people like you find their way. CHNI displays the Fidelity Green Light Award on its home page as a sign that we are recognized for our orthodoxy. We work hard to stay with the Church in whatever it teaches officially and not go off in six different directions with the opinions of the world.
David
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setapart
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| Joined: | Sat Jan 13th, 2007 |
| Location: | Austin, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 266 |
| First Name: | Bill | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Born Catholic, Non-Denominational Charismatic, Catholic |
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Posted: Sat Jul 26th, 2008 10:23 pm |
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Very good reply, David along with the other good reply on this topic.
Noticing that the replies have covered both theological and pastoral sides of the issues brought up, just shows how God has:
Eph 4:11 Christ chose some of us to be apostles, prophets, missionaries, pastors, and teachers,
Eph 4:12 so that his people would learn to serve and his body would grow strong.
Eph 4:13 This will continue until we are united by our faith and by our understanding of the Son of God. Then we will be mature, just as Christ is, and we will be completely like him.
Eph 4:14 We must stop acting like children. We must not let deceitful people trick us by their false teachings, which are like winds that toss us around from place to place.
Eph 4:15 Love should always make us tell the truth. Then we will grow in every way and be more like Christ, the head
Eph 4:16 of the body. Christ holds it together and makes all of its parts work perfectly, as it grows and becomes strong because of love.
God has used the various giftings that exist among the CHN Forum fold to build you and each one of us up as we mature just as Christ is.
My prayer for you, Trish:
Eph 3:14 I kneel in prayer to the Father.
Eph 3:15 All beings in heaven and on earth receive their life from him.
Eph 3:16 God is wonderful and glorious. I pray that his Spirit will make you become strong followers
Eph 3:17 and that Christ will live in your hearts because of your faith. Stand firm and be deeply rooted in his love.
Eph 3:18 I pray that you and all of God's people will understand what is called wide or long or high or deep.
Eph 3:19 I want you to know all about Christ's love, although it is too wonderful to be measured. Then your lives will be filled with all that God is.
Eph 3:20 I pray that Christ Jesus and the church will forever bring praise to God. His power at work in us can do far more than we dare ask or imagine. Amen.
In Christ,
Bill
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But for you who fear my name, the Sun of Righteousness will rise with healing in his wings. And you will go free, leaping with joy like calves let out to pasture. Mal 4:2
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lapsedConvert
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| Joined: | Fri Jul 25th, 2008 |
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| First Name: | lapsedConvert | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Fundamentalist, Non-denom |
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Posted: Sat Jul 26th, 2008 11:40 pm |
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Thanks Bill and David! That was encouraging. Tonite Father preached about the Pearl of Great Price (oh, Duh! So did your Fathers! What church am I at again?!? I'm OK : ) ) and he was talking about how pearls are made starting with an irritant and diamonds are made with heat and pressure. What would we give up for God's kingdom? I bit the bullet and asked Sister about RCIA. I can still join. I told her I didn't know if I could take the emotional turmoil at home and would the community accept me knowing I might not be able to follow through? She told me she would not want me to deceive my husband but if I took RCIA this year and was not in a place in my marriage to be able to unite with the Church, if we got marital counseling and in six months or a year or whatever he would either be able to accept me or I would be able to accept his non-acceptance, that Father could write to the Bishop and get permission to confirm me at that time. SO, I want to tell him "Honey, I would like to take RCIA. I don't have to join the Church this Easter but I want to be open to the Lord's leading and I would like you to give me space for that." Please pray for me or that we can find the right couselor. He is NOT going to a Catholic counselor and I am NOT going to an Evangelical counselor and secular counselors wouldn't even get why we think this is a big deal.
God bless. Thank you again so much! I feel like you all are my friends. After mass I couldn't wait to tell you guys my news.
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Intercessor
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| Joined: | Tue Sep 25th, 2007 |
| Location: | Southcentral, Kentucky USA |
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| First Name: | Becky | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Southern Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Sun Jul 27th, 2008 12:45 am |
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lapsedConvert wrote:
I bit the bullet and asked Sister about RCIA. I can still join. . . . SO, I want to tell him "Honey, I would like to take RCIA. I don't have to join the Church this Easter but I want to be open to the Lord's leading and I would like you to give me space for that." Please pray for me or that we can find the right counselor. . . . I feel like you all are my friends. After mass I couldn't wait to tell you guys my news.
That's wonderful, Trish. It's always a joyous time when a member decides to move forward. Thanks for keeping us posted. You and your husband will be in my prayers.
Grace and peace,
Becky
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Consider it all joy, my brothers, when you encounter various trials. . .the testing of your faith produces perseverance. Blessed is the man who perseveres in temptation, for when he has been proved he will receive the crown of life. . . NAB James 1:2-4,12
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lapsedConvert
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Posted: Sun Jul 27th, 2008 07:01 pm |
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The founder of this apostolate, Marcus Grodi, has catalogued a number of reasons why people reject the Catholic Church. Number one on the list is the anti-Catholic preaching they hear from the Church’s enemies. From your description, you know all about that. Number two is — you guessed it — bad Catholics
I see what MG was saying, but if anything, anti-Catholic teaching LEAD me to the Church. When I come it will noy be my mom, who left pre-VCII and still has nothing to do with the Church, but the countless fundamentalists who suspected everything she did because "Once Catholic always Catholic" (one even spit at her feet). The countless sermons I heard, seminars I attended and "exposee" books given me by "concerned people" and the endless little jabs- instilled in me that the Church was something everyone must deal with. They made every crucifix leap out at me, every kindly man in black passing through the hospital, every conversation Hawkeye had with Fr. Mulcahy call out to me. Where is my Father? Where is my palm? I want Lent! I used to read my mom's disgarded prayer book in the dim light of the damp cellar, trying to pronounce the latin. Even in seminary where the staff were civil and simply believed the Church to be in error, not evil, more than one professor arived at his office one day to find the locks changed, instantly unemployed with a family to feed due to some perceived doctrinal or political error. The more "right" people became the more vicious they became. At last my tired soul said "Bring on the error. I want to go to Hell with the delusional, loving people. At least they'll be together." Even now it seems hacking apart incorrupt bodies for relics smells faintly of witchcraft, even now there are things that seem so wrong. But love is not wrong. And "truth" is only as true as the people it produces. Togetherness must be of God. Would God reject me because I have the wrong idea? We are God's image. We reflect Him. So whatever we say about his Mercy and kindness, the way we treat others is the way, deep down, that we think He is. So I thank God in His mysterious mercy that, as St. Catherine said, He ordained everything for our (my) salvation, He (did) nothing without this goal in mind. I pray for all those who drove me here with their passionate acrimony, that they too would find God in humiliation, even as I found Him hidden in the humiliation they gave. What a grace that God saw through their misimformed tirades to their desire to reveal Him and guide his faithful ones to truth and honored that even when it drove me straight to the place they wished to save me from. How perfectly He works. How endless is His mercy! How ineffable his condescension!
Sorry I am so long-winded! I have been holding it in for four years. I will go back to work soon. Peace to you all!
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Sun Jul 27th, 2008 07:42 pm |
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I see what MG was saying, but if anything, anti-Catholic teaching LED me to the Church.
It sometimes works out this way. Of course, my comment was really about bad Catholics, but I appreciate your sentiment on anti-Catholics. I had kind of the same reaction to it: some Christian love I was shown!
Even now it seems hacking apart incorrupt bodies for relics smells faintly of witchcraft, even now there are things that seem so wrong.
Strangely, this practice goes all the way back to the early centuries of Christianity. There are texts from the second, third and fourth centuries that mention it. But I agree with you that “love is not wrong,” and I believe the Holy Spirit is the fire in your heart. That’s where it’s at with me, too.
Sorry I am so long-winded! I have been holding it in for four years.
It’s good that you have a chance to spit it all out here. Soon you will be free of toxins and feeling much better. Peace to you, too, Trish.
David
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brian
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Posted: Mon Jul 28th, 2008 06:13 am |
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Nice reference to M*A*S*H There is a lot I like about that show. It just has such a unique vibe to it. And they do represent the Fr. somewhat respectfully and at times heroic and tough and accepting and loving.
I know exactly what you mean about the anti-Catholic thing. Although it actually worked on me for a while. I was someone taught trickes on how to evangelize Catholic type people. I had a negative bias against the Church for sure. How I hate that when I was in Mata and saw some old churches all I could think was how unnecessary the beautiful stuff was and how Paul must have been upset to see how Catholic the churches he started became. Now how I wish I could go back to those Cathedrals and just stare and pray.
The point is thay I bought in to a lot of it. Then eventually a friend of mine converted. I thought he was crazy. I tried to reason with him and ended up not making a dent. It was still years later, but once my hatred toward the Church softened I started to think 'well, at least some Catholics must be saved, they do afterall believe in Jesus' and evnetually saying 'there is a lot about Catholicism I like, I think I would like to think of myself as an honorary Catholic for a day and go to Ash wednesday' The thing is, the more I saw its truth and beauty the more all the negative things I grew up thinknig turned me more toward the church. Still, it was difficult to actually make the final leap as I had a lot of fear that I was joiing some sort of church that worshipped saints and had the gospel wrong. But in the end the anti-catholciism did its damage, but made me see that there must be something misunderstood.
It may have been Chesterton or Neumann who said that few people hate the church. They hate what they think is the church.
Anyway, I am enjoying your thought processing thing. Hope all goes well in the coming months.
Brian
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lapsedConvert
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Posted: Mon Jul 28th, 2008 09:14 pm |
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Thanks Brian, and thank you all! Today I looked up mg57's links about Elizabeth Leseuer. I was totally convicted (that's Protestantese for "my conscience was bothered) by the fact that I have let all the arguments between my husband and I make my heart cold. I just sort of get along as best I can, I don't really listen to him or love him, and that instead of making this pain a wedge between us I should offer it up. This is a turning point for me, a major thing, so I went to a nearby parish to confess (my Father is on retreat) The priest seemed annoyed (I went to him after the service along with another sinner. And the poor guys are overscheduled with the shortage) that I needed his help but tried to be pleasant and I told him my husband and I had been fighting because I want to convert and he said "You're not even Catholic?!?!" and he told me I should try to take RCIA and "if you don't like it you can always quit..." but not to join the Church if it would cause a problem between my husband and I, but sure, I should work on my relationship with him. I closed my eyes and bowed my head and he quickly crossed me and said. "Bless you. Bye." When I confess at my parish Father has me make an act of contrition and he touches my head and says most of the absolution prayer, except the "I absolve you" part. Did I do something wrong? I don't feel forgiven. Now, if I really believe the Catholic stuff I must trust that Jesus worked through the sacrement even if the priest found me annoying and didn't see why anyone would undergo conflict to join the particular church that he happens to work for. But, part of the whole reason God gives us sacrements is because seeing and feeling and hearing and emotions are all part of our experience of Him-we are not just disembodied spirits. So, would it be wrong to confess this again since I didn't receive absolution or any type of specific blessing? I don't want to make more work for Father or express doubt that Jesus really works through any validly ordained priest or dis the priest who saw me. He could've said no and he didn't do anything expressly unkind to me. Further, my current priest, who is an empathetic confessor, will eventually be assigned to some other parish. Would it be OK at that time, to confess at other parishes until I find a priest I have more of a rapport with or do I need to be obedient to God and confess to whoever is assigned at my parish? Protestants are famous for "shopping around" and I don't want to do that, but I don't take spiritual direction lightly and am careful who I trust with such an important role. It is one of the things that lead me to the Faith.
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Dave Armstrong
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Posted: Mon Jul 28th, 2008 09:54 pm |
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A warm welcome, Trish. I was away over the weekend, and so just saw your post now (I usually take the weekend off anyway!). As you see, the people here are wonderfully supportive and loving. It's truly genuine and sincere and heartfelt. I know, because I am reading posts all the time as a moderator.
I'm so happy that you are being encouraged by their outpouring of concern. I hope you stay! You're among friends. I tend to do more of the theology and apologetics, myself (as you can see by my "official title"). If you have some questions about the faith, I and others will do our best to try to provide some solid, plausible answers for you.
In the meantime, you'll find plenty of personal support and encouragement from folks who can empathize with the situation you are in right now.
Helpers Rick and David know a lot more than I do about the fine points of a matter like a Protestant confessing to a priest, so I'll defer to them, as to your recent questions.
God bless you.
Last edited on Mon Jul 28th, 2008 10:03 pm by Dave Armstrong
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CajunRick
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Posted: Tue Jul 29th, 2008 01:17 am |
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lapsedConvert wrote: secular counselors wouldn't even get why we think this is a big deal.
You might be surprised. Differences of faith are a major source of marital discord. A secular counselor worth his/her salt will attempt to find areas of agreement and areas in which you can agree to disagree, and suggest compromises on whatever is left. For example, he might suggest you attending church with him one weekend, and him with you the next.
However, if I were you, I would insist on a counselor you can question before, to assure he/she will not take a particular faith perspective.
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