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TerminalNewEnglander
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| Joined: | Mon Jan 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Rhode Island USA |
| Posts: | 104 |
| First Name: | Bill | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic; Lapsed Catholic; quasi-UCC; Reverted Catholic. |
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Posted: Mon Jul 28th, 2008 04:47 am |
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Wondering if other reverts have experienced resistance from Catholic family members who never drifted away.
I've sensed the following:
- They don't actually believe I'm back
- Even if they believe it, they seem to resent any sort of Catholic-related information I may supply to a conversation ... as if any contribution I make isn't valid because I was away for so long. "I never left .. and now all of a sudden you're an expert !?!"
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JasPax
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| Joined: | Wed Nov 22nd, 2006 |
| Location: | North Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 272 |
| First Name: | James | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Episcopal to Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Jul 28th, 2008 07:14 pm |
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Hey Bill,
That is interesting. In order to revert you had to do some sudying/understanding the teachings of the Church. The family members you mentioned may not have done much of that - they have just gone along. Perhaps they feel a little unsure about their own knowledge of the faith and resent yours.
I recently read somewhere that 8% of Catholics in the U.S. are former Protestants. In general, they are among the best informed (and loyal) Catholics because they had to study and resolve the teachings of the Church in their own minds and hearts. I think Reverts fall into this category also.
On the other hand, the same article mentioned that around 10% of Protestants are former Catholics. Needless to say, they were weak catholics to begin with. This points out the need for better catechesis for our young people.
God's Blessings,
____________________
James
"Abide in me, and I in you..." John 15:4
"He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him." John 6:56
RSV-2CE
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tedjenczewski
Member
| Joined: | Thu May 10th, 2007 |
| Location: | Richmond, Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 345 |
| First Name: | Ted | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, Presbyterian, revert Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Jul 28th, 2008 08:04 pm |
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Bill. I experienceed no such problem when I reverted. However your knowledge of the faith most likely surpasses that of your relatives, unless they were trained by the Jesuits. Some of them might be what are called "cultural catholics", and may very well find your knowledge of the catholic faith threatening to their presumption of salvation. The faithful among them are praising God, along with us and all the angels and saints, for your reversion to the faith. God bless you.
Last edited on Mon Jul 28th, 2008 08:05 pm by tedjenczewski
____________________
"...the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth." 1Tim 3, 15
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Steven Barrett
Member
| Joined: | Tue Nov 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | Hadley, Massachusetts USA |
| Posts: | 1400 |
| First Name: | Steven | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, Episcopal communicant, Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Jul 29th, 2008 06:02 pm |
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When it comes to discussing Catholic/Protestant relations, nothing makes me want to burst out laughing more than hearing or reading "Well, it was that strong Jesuit Catholic teaching, you know..." Alot of that was slung when Tim Russert died. And I have no doubt that when he was trained, it was when the Jesuits still taught THE FAITH because it obviously showed throughout his entire life and STUCK.
Nowadays ... well, nowadays, I'd prefer taking my chances on getting a formation from the Episcopalians than some Jesuit colleges and high schools since they've embraced modernist and Americanist baloney heresies, esp. since Vatican II. (Let's say, I trust the traditionalist/conservative Episcys, not the pro-remaining established bunch of fruitcakes and assorted nuts.)
The main problem reverts (like Bill and myself) most likely find is what Fr. John Corapi's pounded on incessantly: BAD THEOLOGY making its way through the seminaries and so on down the line to your kids' or grandkids' Sunday School teacher. People don't have the basics.
To give you an example; about 20 years ago I taught a very small CCD class at the Newman Center serving UMass/Amherst. These kids were in their early teens and didn't know how to say the "Our Father." Many of them didn't even take their first confession because the ordinary in the diocese fell for the hogwash that going into the confessional was "too scary." LOL
Say what! When I was a kid, it was too scary NOT to know the Our Father and having to tell the nuns when you made your last confession if it hadn't been "soon enough lately." You were toast, history, dead meat -- and no appeals. "Memorize that prayer, and off to confession--BEFORE Communion." Boy, if it ever got back to my parents that I didn't have my basic prayers locked in my thick skull (their favorite phrase for their three boys' craniums, which could indeed be thick) -- I would've thought all hell broke loose -- and it was going to -- for me, or any of us. My two older brothers, being altar boys had even less "wiggle room." Oh, we never got whacked for that; but her speciality cold stare for several hours could melt any kid into the most remorseful sinner on God's earth.
"Catholic guilt trip" had nothing on my parents, especially my mom. She could've taught the Pope and all the nuns how to really pull it off. But hours later, and a few tearful line-by-line sessions of learning the prayers and spending time with me every night before I went to sleep made all the difference. She was tough, but she had to be for the sake of our souls and if that meant being a drill sergeant, so be it.
The Jesuits (used) to be the "pope's marines." But even the Pope needed the diligence of his real Drill Sergeants--dedicated parents, to teach us what "it's all about" and not rely on the Mass alone, especially a if Fr. Milquetoast is the pastor and kumbaya katholicism's his schtick.
Bad theology, lazy theology -- whatever's your fancy to call it all. But we've grown complacent. And there's no, none whatsoever, excuse at all. If a "slow learner" like myself (now I know they were real learning disabilities) could pull it all together, anybody could. A-ny-body!
Don't let the lazybones get to you. Just wear your faith in your heart and let is show through your countenance. Soon enough it'll dawn on them you mean business in a non-arrogant and non-threatening way and if they want to enjoy life more, they'd better get off their spiritual recliners and couches.
That line "I never heard the Gospel at Mass" or in the Catholic Church is one of the biggest, shrewdest and tactically most effective lies evangelicals have used to manipulate Catholics into joining their ranks. But it only succeeds with the lazybones.
When I left, I was angry with some policies, some teachings, which made it all that easier for me to "justify" my compromise with my wife on our kids' religious education. I'm now shouting and warning about this from a deep well of regrets. But I never bought into the hogwash I'd hear about "never hearing the Gospel" or learning about Jesus. Even if Fr. Soandso's homilys stunk, the Liturgy never failed to teach the Gospel. It's a Passion Play every time it's said. Best yet, it's God's Real Presence, something a mere book could never give even the staunchest "Bible Chrsitians" in a zillion study sessions. It's one thing to talk about the necessity for us -- every single person -- to become more knowledgeable about Christ and develop a permanent personal relationship with him.
Protestants DON'T have a monopoly on that teaching (unless we're too lazy and thick-skulled to let them.) Pope Benedict has emphasized this quite strongly. But we have all the cards over the Protestants because of the Real Presence. They hate to admit it because in doing so, there goes their house of cards, in a heartbeat. And they know it. Politefully never let them forget it, either--you'll be doing them the biggest favor imaginable.
I heard people speak about "bad experiences" and these weren't the victims of sexual or other forms of horrific abuse, even knuckle rapping, whine about "Catholic school," "those damn nuns," etc. But when I try telling them what it was like growing up Catholic in a military (Dept. of Defense) public school system that made us say the Protestant Our Father with the King James "ending lines" -- well, so what they'd shrug. Imagine, shrugging at bigotry all because they didn't experience it in federally operated schools on US soil abroad or on military bases at home.
Parochial schools do "protect" kids from outside influences, but there's a lot to be said for not being sheltered by them as I found out as one of the few public high school kids (only one from w. Mass as the other one at my college went to the diocesan h.s.) at Biscayne College. In many respects, the very worst thing the parochial system did was to allow unsuspecting kids to be exposed to bad theology and they were a captive audience, esp. after Vatican II "reforms" started to roll in the late 60s and early 70s when I was in college (70-74). I thank God my parents didn't "protect" me in that respect.
My of thinking has led to me being called a hard-head, even perhaps people calling me a bigot behind my back. (I am over the top, when necessary to be so.) So be it. It was nice to be a hail-fellow while sipping coffee after services, but it got to the point where I didn't mind being called the local church's biggest bigot for scoffing at such vapid intellectual and spiritual sloth and that was because I simply wouldn't let that excuse uttered by any "ex-Catholic" stand if I could counter it.
Here's the best way to tweak their minds, consciences and memories -- especially if they've been properly instructed about the Sacrament of Baptism from our perspective:
"Once a Catholic, always a Catholic." But if you don't say it with a (sincerely) friendly grin and/or smile, be prepared for a sudden drop in room temperature and loss of friendship. And to think our evangelical buddies think WE'RE brainwashed?
L.O.L!Last edited on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 06:08 pm by Steven Barrett
____________________
James Michael Curley to a young Thomas “Tip” O’Neill -- “Son, it’s nice to be important, but it’s more important to be nice.”
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TerminalNewEnglander
Member
| Joined: | Mon Jan 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Rhode Island USA |
| Posts: | 104 |
| First Name: | Bill | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic; Lapsed Catholic; quasi-UCC; Reverted Catholic. |
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Posted: Wed Jul 30th, 2008 08:14 pm |
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Steven Barrett wrote: Here's the best way to tweak their minds, consciences and memories -- especially if they've been properly instructed about the Sacrament of Baptism from our perspective:
"Once a Catholic, always a Catholic." But if you don't say it with a (sincerely) friendly grin and/or smile, be prepared for a sudden drop in room temperature and loss of friendship. And to think our evangelical buddies think WE'RE brainwashed?
L.O.L!
I will say that the deeper I've gotten back into my faith, the braver I've gotten about making it known to others ... though I've made embarrassingly little progress compared to where I'd like to be. But those first few steps are the toughest.
Steve,
You must have had a power lunch yesterday. Thanks. I'll run with your suggestion.
Bill
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Steven Barrett
Member
| Joined: | Tue Nov 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | Hadley, Massachusetts USA |
| Posts: | 1400 |
| First Name: | Steven | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, Episcopal communicant, Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Sat Aug 16th, 2008 07:22 pm |
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Bill, thanks for your compliment and my apologies for not getting back to you sooner.
Quite frankly, I can't remember what I ate that day! But I'm glad I was able to give you that encouragement you needed when dealing with your family. It's tough, especially up in this neck of the nation. New Englanders are gritty, crusty and grumpy enough, without having to be on the receiving end of this crap from family members.
Small wonder that so many people who've moved up here (where the economy, however sluggish, is less volatile and in some places, like where I live in, an academic valley, "recession proof") are willing to get the hell out of this hell-hole when it comes to unfriendliness.
Some of what you're getting is that natural flaw so many of us have up here when it comes to "getting along." And since we're that tough on family members, you can imagine how we come across to outsiders. (Well, I CAN'T PUBLISH IT HERE ERIOD!) Anybody with a southern accent is target number one, bar none else.
But I have little or use of religious intolerance or indifference when it comes from inhouse sources. Good Lord; one of my closest cousins joined the Episcopal church some quarter century ago and while my parents were aghast (they might've been her Godparents) they never gave her the cold shoulder. Maybe a talk or two privately, but NEVER the cold shoulder. So your relatives who are giving you the shrug, cold shoulder or even worse have no grounds whatsoever when you think of what I just shared. No matter how much we differed and argued on some things, Family was Always Family.
Just be yourself, give them the "Once a Catholic, always a Catholic" response in a friendly way and sooner or later they'll have to turn around. If they don't, the choice isn't yours, nor is the responsibility for any estrangement. After all, what did Jesus say about facing the day when we might have to leave our families behind for His sake? Jesus didn't force this issue on you; He just pointed the way (which is a lot better than theirs for sure!) They're the ones who turned their back on Jesus by turning them on you. Let them chew on that cud.
Think back to your time on the Railtrail: Your relatives are on the hilly part, tired, beaten after a long ride on bikes with soft tires and no add'l gears. But you're on the long flat and much easier terrain as it passes through Hadley. Scripture tells us when we embrace the Lord things are likely to start getting rockier and tougher. But that's not your problem now. We'll all have some crisis that'll look like New Hampshire's Tuckerman Ravine, but at least we'll have travelled other paths that have prepared us for the really fr ightening challenges, cancer, loss of spouse, a child ... ugh ... But your relatives ... if they can't manage those easy slopes towards the Amherst end of the Railtrail, how on earth will they manage their Tuckerman Ravines?
That's when you get to play Joseph. 
No greater joy will you have when they truly admit religious differences should've never cause them or any of us to raise our drawbridges of indifference against each other, esp. family members. Just be patient.
____________________
James Michael Curley to a young Thomas “Tip” O’Neill -- “Son, it’s nice to be important, but it’s more important to be nice.”
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