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Darlene
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Pocono Mountains, Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 868 |
| First Name: | Darlene | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Christian, trusting His love and forgiveness |
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Posted: Tue Mar 27th, 2007 11:25 am |
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 The other day, my husband and I were having a discussion about different denominations. I thought to myself, "No better time than now to ask him the Big question. "By the way," I asked with an amusing tone, "who was it that started the Catholic Church anyway?" Well, at first he was stumped. Then he thought about it and said, "There's a difference between the Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Church." Somehow, this question really irks many Protestants. For me, the discovery that Jesus Christ founded the one, holy, apostolic, catholic Church on St. Peter, which is the Roman Catholic Church shepherded currently by Pope Benedict XVI, is refreshing. No longer do I have to wrangle about in my head with the vestiges of Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, Wesley, Whitefield, Moody, Campbell, Finney, Spurgeon, Pink, etc., etc., etc. BTW, any of you are free to add to my list. We could probably come up with hundreds, if not thousands of names!
Darlene
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The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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JillD
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Visalia, California USA |
| Posts: | 786 |
| First Name: | Jill | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | heathen, EvFree, Messianic, LC-MS, Catholic 2007 |
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Posted: Tue Mar 27th, 2007 12:15 pm |
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| Henry the Eighth! ACCCKKKK!!!!
____________________
"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret." Ps 139
"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
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twiggymoo
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| Joined: | Fri Oct 13th, 2006 |
| Location: | Maryland USA |
| Posts: | 36 |
| First Name: | Twiggymoo | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Nazarene, Free Methodist, Baptist..Romeward bound |
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Posted: Tue Mar 27th, 2007 12:40 pm |
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| Rick Warren and his followers
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Darlene
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Pocono Mountains, Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 868 |
| First Name: | Darlene | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Christian, trusting His love and forgiveness |
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Posted: Tue Mar 27th, 2007 01:04 pm |
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Ok, I'm gonna add to my list. Kenneth and Gloria Copeland, and ALL the Word Faith preachers, (since there are too many to mention). Ellen White (SDA), and William Booth (Salvation Army). I know there are more. Feel free to add to the list.
Darlene
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The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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JillD
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Visalia, California USA |
| Posts: | 786 |
| First Name: | Jill | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | heathen, EvFree, Messianic, LC-MS, Catholic 2007 |
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Posted: Tue Mar 27th, 2007 06:17 pm |
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Here's a few more:
Chuck Smith started Calvary Chapel.
John Wimber started The Vineyard.
Assemblies of God started at a prayer meeting in Topeka, Kansas in 1901.
Thomas Helwys started the General Baptists.
"It was 1886, in a crude meeting house on the Tennessee-North Carolina border, where the Church of God traces its roots. There, a group of eight sincere Christians had a deep desire for a closer relationship and life with Christ. "
I sort of chuckle when I find a website that says with apparent pride that their particular denomination was founded "over a hundred years ago," as if that indicates great longevity.
Last edited on Tue Mar 27th, 2007 06:32 pm by JillD
____________________
"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret." Ps 139
"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
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mrbill
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| Joined: | Wed Dec 13th, 2006 |
| Location: | Deltona, Florida USA |
| Posts: | 17 |
| First Name: | Bill | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic- Baptist- Returned Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Mar 27th, 2007 10:08 pm |
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| Jim Jones of Jonestown, Guyana (Ordained Pastor in the Disciples of Christ)
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Steven Barrett
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| Joined: | Tue Nov 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | Hadley, Massachusetts USA |
| Posts: | 980 |
| First Name: | Steven | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, Episcopal communicant, Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Mar 28th, 2007 08:11 am |
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Oh, and what about that guy Applewhite, of "Heaven's Gate" foolishness out in that great breeding ground of nonsense: So. California?
Did he ever get to post his 95 theses on the Hale Bopp comet?
Consider it a great sign that your husband is asking the one question that usually nudges sensible people along the right path. After all, Cardinal Newman said once a Protestant gets deeper into history - it's usually a done deal - he starts heading for his new home in Rome. (Well, not exactly like that, but I haven't had any coffee nor the exact quotation at hand, either.)
 ! Last edited on Wed Mar 28th, 2007 08:18 am by Steven Barrett
____________________
For anybody interested in reading commentary from a Catholic's socially conservative/fiscally liberal viewpoint, go to my new blog at http://www.politicsramble.com/ .
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Ali
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| Joined: | Sat Jan 6th, 2007 |
| Location: | Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 663 |
| First Name: | Ali | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | JW, finally fully Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Mar 28th, 2007 08:46 am |
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JillD wrote: I sort of chuckle when I find a website that says with apparent pride that their particular denomination was founded "over a hundred years ago," as if that indicates great longevity.
Jehovah's Witnesses sometimes describe themselves as third (in my case) or fourth generation JW's. I thought that sounded swell until I met a real Catholic family (dh's) who can trace their Catholic-ness clear back to when the family first immigrated to the US, and then some. LOL
So let's add the JW cult/religion to the list -- Charles Taze Russell in 1872. Right close to me in Pittsburgh PA. I was actually at the 100 year anniversary thingy they had at one of the old stadiums in Pittsburgh.
Edited -- Something isn't adding up. 1872 must not be the original date used by JW's. Cause I wasn't born until '73, so I couldn't have been at a centenial thing if that was so. It was in the late 80's, early 90's sometime. I just wanted to correct that.
Ali
Last edited on Wed Mar 28th, 2007 02:13 pm by Ali
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CajunRick
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Posted: Wed Mar 28th, 2007 11:56 am |
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Ali wrote: Jehovah's Witnesses sometimes describe themselves as third (in my case) or fourth generation JW's. I thought that sounded swell until I met a real Catholic family (dh's) who can trace their Catholic-ness clear back to when the family first immigrated to the US, and then some. LOL
My wife's family has been traced back to 12th century France, where her ancestor was one of the last legitimately married priests in the Latin Church. That's 300-400 years before Columbus landed in the western hemisphere, and hundreds of years before there was such a thing as a Protestant.
There's a cathedral somewhere in France with a stained glass window of her family coat of arms. Neat, huh?
My wife is pure French, but I have some German and English mixed in, so I might have had a Lutheran or an Anglican in the wood pile, but she's Catholic through and through.
Fourth generation? Big deal!
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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mrsbill
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| Joined: | Tue Dec 5th, 2006 |
| Location: | Deltona, Florida USA |
| Posts: | 39 |
| First Name: | Nora | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Lutheran & Baptist backgrounds, currently on the Road to Rome! |
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Posted: Wed Mar 28th, 2007 03:01 pm |
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Faith Group Founded by Date
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Roman Catholic Jesus, Peter Circa 30
Lutheranism Martin Luther 1517
Swiss Reformed Church Zwingli 1523
Mennonites ------ 1525
Anglican Communion King Henry 8 1534
Calvinism John Calvin 1536
Presbyterianism John Knox 1560
Baptist John Smyth 1605
Dutch Reformed Michaelis Jones 1628
Amish Jakob Ammann 1693
Methodist John Wesley 1739
Quakers George Fox 1647
Moravians Count Zinendorf 1727
Congregationalism John & Charles Wesley 1744
Brethren John Darby 1828
Latter Day Saint Joseph Smith 1830
Seventh Day Adventist Ellen White 1860
Salvation Army William Booth 1865
Jehovah's Witness Charles Russell 1870
Christian Science Mary Baker Eddy 1879
Pentecostal Charles Parham 1900
Worldwide Church of God Herbert Armstrong 1933/1947
Unification Church Sun Myung Moon 1954
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JasPax
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| Joined: | Wed Nov 22nd, 2006 |
| Location: | North Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 252 |
| First Name: | James | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Episcopal to Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Mar 28th, 2007 05:39 pm |
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While everyone is thinking genealogically, consider this:
If any of your family came to America from the British Isles, Western Europe, Scandinavia, the Slavic Countries or North Africa, their ancestors were most likely Catholic.
Also, perhaps less likely, but possibily still, if they ever lived in the Middle East.
So all those Protestant founders listed above; unless their ancestors worshipped trees and rocks, come from Catholic stock.
It's in our DNA, so to speak. That may be why it only takes a spark of knowledge and understanding to set us on the road to Rome.
We just can't help ourselves!
So, remember this the next time some relative says, "Your Baptist, (Methodist, Lutheran, Anglican, etc.) ancestors would be very unhappy that you are becoming Catholic." Think a little further back.
God's Many Blessings!
____________________
James
"Abide in me, and I in you..." John 15:4
"He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him." John 6:56
RSV-2CE
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Talithacumi
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| Joined: | Sat Sep 30th, 2006 |
| Location: | Eastern Ohio, USA |
| Posts: | 268 |
| First Name: | Cheri | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic - Latin Rite |
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Posted: Thu Mar 29th, 2007 12:14 am |
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Hey, can I put my little boast in here? (Yeah, I know... we're not supposed to boast except in Christ. Well, I am... sorta  . Let's just say I'm a little bit proud of my Catholic heritage, perhaps.).
Anyway, according to the family records on my maternal grandmother's side, it seems that the Great Defender of the Faith, Charlemagne, Emperor of the West (who lived during the 8th and 9th centuries), is my great-grandfather to the 40th generation (or thereabouts).
Funny thing is, my grandmother herself wasn't even Catholic until she married my grandfather who was. Then, just to be united with him in faith, she turned Catholic. Obviously, somewhere along the way, someone jumped ship. But Grandma came home, even if she only did it for my grandpa. One might say that eventually all roads lead to Rome, eh?
JMJ
- Cheri
____________________
“We do not want a Church that will move with the world; we want a Church that will move the world.”
- G.K. Chesterton
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Truthseeker
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| Joined: | Wed Oct 4th, 2006 |
| Location: | Costa Mesa, California USA |
| Posts: | 393 |
| First Name: | Laura | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | lapsed and returned CATHOLIC!!!!!! |
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Posted: Thu Mar 29th, 2007 02:22 am |
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What would your answer be to someone who says we just THINK Christ started the RCC but can't prove it. My step mother syas it this way - "...then the catholic church branched off...", as in first there was the way, then the christian faith, then the catholic chutch branched off....
Love, Laura
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Lord, please make my will your Will!
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mrsbill
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| Joined: | Tue Dec 5th, 2006 |
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| Posts: | 39 |
| First Name: | Nora | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Lutheran & Baptist backgrounds, currently on the Road to Rome! |
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Posted: Thu Mar 29th, 2007 11:30 am |
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What would your answer be to someone who says we just THINK Christ started the RCC but can't prove it. My step mother syas it this way - "...then the catholic church branched off...", as in first there was the way, then the christian faith, then the catholic chutch branched off....
It's funny you say that! My son keeps telling me that the early Christians weren't Catholic, but they were "The Way," which became Christians, and then Catholics branched off from that. Same exact statement as your step mother.
He relishes in telling me (every single Sat. night when he comes home from college), that Catholics are NOT the first religion (or denomination, I know they aren't technically a denomination, but I think you know where I am going with this).
I've tried to explain the catholic means "universal," as in we are all universal Chrisitans united under one faith, and not a "denomination" in the Protestant sense. But he still views Catholics as a denomination.
He's been bringing up the "THE WAY" thing a lot recently, saying Catholics didn't come into existance until way after the early Christians and that he wants to worship as the early Christians did - before any denominationalism or the Catholic church was in existance. He's really been sucked into this movement of getting back to the way our early church fathers worshipped, although he isn't reading ANYTHING from the early church fathers (he's one of these people that if it isn't in the BIBLE, he doesn't trust it), so I don't think he really has a grasp of how they worshipped at all!
No, instead he is reading books like "Velvet Elvis: Repainting the Christian Faith," by Rob Bell, and others like that, saying they are talking about how the early Christians worshipped. My husband finally read the book this past weekend and said it is a bunch of hoo-haa. While they guy makes one or two good points, the majority of his history, etc. is wrong and his interpretations of scripture are really off base.
He's now looking for a church that is "non-denominational" and is into this "movement" he is into. He does think all Christians should unite and be the "body of Christ," giving up the whole denominationalism/Protestant/Catholic divide, but he doesn't agree with Catholicism anymore than he does with Protestantism. He says the Catholics want us to unite, but only if you are willing to come into the Catholic church and that is just wrong and not what Jesus taught.
How do I respond to my son? David or Rick?
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pam
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| Joined: | Sat Nov 11th, 2006 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 115 |
| First Name: | Pam | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Former Non-denominational Bible Church |
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Posted: Thu Mar 29th, 2007 11:52 am |
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| This is a very important question for all of us with anti-Catholic, non-denominational, evangelical family. They view the early church only as what is given in Acts and Paul's Epistles--then throw out what they don't like, such as tongues, etc.
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Truthseeker
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| Joined: | Wed Oct 4th, 2006 |
| Location: | Costa Mesa, California USA |
| Posts: | 393 |
| First Name: | Laura | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | lapsed and returned CATHOLIC!!!!!! |
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Posted: Thu Mar 29th, 2007 12:13 pm |
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Your son doesn't trust anything that's not "the BIBLE" so he won't read the early fathers, yet he's taking his ideals from a book called Velvet Elvis?! Sorry - I know that's rude, but the logic strikes me as a little ...well off. but it seems typical. People don't trust the catholic church - mostly just because it's catholic - but they'll give all kinds of reasons, but they'll trust new and upcoming pastor that just a year ago decided he was "called" to let them know in exact detail, everything they need to know about God and his Kingdom.
Alot of people say that catholics just use the term "mystery" for anything they don't understand, implying that they understand everything, but it seems logical that we WOULDN'T understand everything, don't you think? The more a pastor talks like he has complete understanding of ALL THINGS, the less credible I find him, because God's ways are not our ways. And they'll say that, and then explain everything like that statement doesn't exist. So strange.
Love, Laura
PS- but I would still like to know how to answer the question. I've said that the earliest followers called themselves the way, and then christians, and then catholics, but were still the same "faith", but nobody accepts that.
____________________
Lord, please make my will your Will!
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mrsbill
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Posted: Thu Mar 29th, 2007 12:45 pm |
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Your son doesn't trust anything that's not "the BIBLE" so he won't read the early fathers, yet he's taking his ideals from a book called Velvet Elvis?! Sorry - I know that's rude, but the logic strikes me as a little ...well off.
Haha. Yeah I found it a bit ironic too!
But, he's 21 and, of course, he knows it all and we are just "old fogeys," "legalistic," and have "antinquated ideas." Hmm, if I recall I pretty much thought the same of my parents when I was 21. 
Oh, what we learn as we get older!
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Steven Barrett
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| Joined: | Tue Nov 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | Hadley, Massachusetts USA |
| Posts: | 980 |
| First Name: | Steven | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, Episcopal communicant, Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Mar 29th, 2007 03:00 pm |
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Whole lotta shakin' goin' on! 
If this "New Order" "liturgy" keeps alive, who knows, we might be seeing velveteen banners with Elvis rotating his pelvis, with some silly inscription saying "The King loved the KING of KINGS." One never knows when it comes to knowing what's coming down the pike next. Don't worry, I doubt if any priest has the gall (or lack of "church smarts") to impersonate Elvis at mass.
But, you have to wonder what's going to happen some day years from now when a history-challenged generation that's still trying to grapple over the ID of the founder of Christianity/Catholicism is doesn't see anything odd with such a ridiculous scenario suggested above. It's all relative, right?
After all, with so many self-created "bishops" running megachurches these days, who's going to have the effrontery to say his or her bishop is a real one with a real line of apostilic succession to fall back on lest anyone confuse him with so many of the counterfreits mega-fooling so many mega-fooled people. This is America, where the individual rules, and old fogeys stressing for authenticity are left to drool.
No wonder Pope Benedict warned the world about the dangers of moral and any other kind of relativism: this case being the historical kind. Americanized Catholics are too well trained in the game of relativism, and Roman Catholics who happen to be Americans are too often at wit's end when it comes to dealing with the former and certainly the Protestant kind lacking any qualms when it comes to historical, and even biblical accuracy when it comes to debating just Who founded Christianity/Catholicism. We just can't get our feet out of the cement of accuracy. We're stuck with this archaic notion of truth trumping myths, convenient "truths," and mangled church history.
So what. Nothing we can do for those hound-dawgs. Let 'em sniff this and that trail to this and that heartbreak mega-dog house or (false trail) movement. I feel bad for those poh folks who, when presented with plain, black and white evidence that the Church they dislike so much for even having the gall to call itself Christian, has even more gall in this great land of having it your way to say it's The Church founded by no less than the REAL King.
After all, who's going to want to admit he's following the wrong and quite watered-down spin-off variation off the real Faith? I suppose a lot of Protestants probably feel a little suckered and kinda dumb when they find out their denomination's been founded by a mere m o r t a l, as opposed to the Real One. You'd have to admit it's hard as hell to realize you've taken the Wrong Way. Moreover, the Catholics' claim of divine foundership must be to Protestants what the Yankees claim to 26 World Series wins as opposed to just one since then Sox owner played Esau. Well, that was a bit awkward, and no doubt a Sox fan will call me on it. However, even Sox fans who are loyal Roman Catholics, vs. Americanized Catholics, will (grudgingly) admit there might yet be a biblical connection here.
My favorite soft-pitch challenges is the one posed by Protestants suffering from nostalgia enhanced delusionary derangements. These are the folks who want to live out some fantasy life based on Acts, before Christians became (gasp!) C,c,c,-R,r,r, -- c'mon, get it out --Roman Catholics and all went to hell in a collection basket.
Oh yeah, baby, let's go back to the good old days of persecutions from the Sanhedrin, Greeks and Romans. Anybody want to see Bush transform himself into another Nero? Just think of all the electricity costs stadium owners could be saving if only Christians were set afire to provide night time entertainment, just like in Nero's time. And, let's not forget our feline friends. Tessie the Tiger's been without red meat for two days - not even some sad-sack gladiator - and the plebians are having a hard time keeping her even mildly content. Can't have discontented kitties so the Christians or Roman Catholics will do.
Let's see, did the earliest Christians meet in mega-catacombs? Oh, those came along after they outgrew the private domiciles (and hopefully) out ran Nero's spies who seemed to always make themselves conveniently nearby.
And, if they did meet even near a wiff of the catacombs, they certainly didn't find it as pleasant an experience as any nostalgic post modern Christian sitting in his comfy cinema-house "viewing chair," with a cup holder, no less. No doubt, the ground underneath the poor first Roman Catholics, (who really knew what it cost to be a capitol-c Christian, did a whole lot o' shaking when the Praetorian Guard's chariots came rumbling at them.
I'll bet you a ticket to a resurrected Elvis Presley concert that Saints Peter and Paul wouldn't wish their century on anyone alive today. Nor would Mary and all the other major figures of the Church, which of course, became known to be the Catholic Church from the 1st Century on.
Today's well-meaning, but quite often historically clueless, naifs also like to gush about all the sharing among the followers, especially during the early days when they had to watch out for Saul and the Sanhedrin. How lovely, but also how wistfully out of sync with our times. Not that sharing should ever be out of any period, but the notion that these early Christians also decided to form a new economic system, socialism, so we must adopt that, too. The words in Acts do mirror those of Karl Marx'. Right. What a coincidence, but only a coincidence. By the way, even when Protestants tried this Acts economics out during the first year of Protestant occupation of Indian lands in Massachusetts, Acts-style economics failed miserably and the Pilgrims resorted to something that did work: market driven economics.
Not the dog-eat-dog variety as we know of and put up with, but still a more workable system that managed to help them stay alive, but not without help from those "savages," whom the good Protestants proceeded to betray not long afterwards.
Naturally I'm having a ball with this, but it's also given me an opportunity to hit this soft-pitch right over the center-field wall in Yankee Stadium. This pitch is so easy, even a day-dreamer like myself could hit it. Alas, for our delusioned historical facts challenged Protestants suffering also from a gripping addiction to false nostalgic myths about Roman Catholicism, I don't have any cure to offer save for recommending that they read and re-read Matthew 16 over and over and over again. Then read Acts in same fashion.
Perhaps that MIGHT cure them of such dreaded maladies that could really lead to a serious imperilmentto their souls.
"an' don' be cruel..."
____________________
For anybody interested in reading commentary from a Catholic's socially conservative/fiscally liberal viewpoint, go to my new blog at http://www.politicsramble.com/ .
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CajunRick
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Posted: Thu Mar 29th, 2007 08:59 pm |
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Steven Barrett wrote:
Don't worry, I doubt if any priest has the gall (or lack of "church smarts") to impersonate Elvis at mass.
You've never met the Judicial Vicar of our diocese. He regularly does Elvis impersonations in his homilies. Of course, it is never during a liturgical part of the mass, and is comparable to telling a joke, and he always gets a good laugh. He is the rector of our Cathedral and has his license in Canon Law from the Pontifical Academy in Rome, so he takes the liturgy very seriously.
But, you have to wonder what's going to happen some day years from now when a history-challenged generation that's still trying to grapple over the ID of the founder of Christianity/Catholicism is doesn't see anything odd with such a ridiculous scenario suggested above. It's all relative, right?
There is an Internet church in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, that has canonized "Saint Elvis" and quite literally prays to him in their services, which are conducted on the Internet. Collections are via credit or debit card, and they actually, literally, conducted the first Internet marriage in history.
I am not making this up. I wish I was.
"an' don' be cruel..."
That must be the recessional hymn....
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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DrDave
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | Mildura, Australia |
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| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Cradle - Lapsed - Renewed Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Mar 29th, 2007 10:04 pm |
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Ignatius of Antioch - "Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or by one whom he ordains [i.e., a presbyter]. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church" (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).
If I remember correctly Ignatius learnt his faith at the feet of St. John (The Evangelist and Apostle), and it seems to me that when people say that the Catholic church 'broke away' from early christianity (or some other version of the 'Great Apostacy' theory) they are actually saying that my Lord Jesus Christ deliberatly chose 12 men who were such incompetents that the truth of the faith didn't even survive one generation. What a Guy!!??!!:?
Regards Dave
Last edited on Thu Mar 29th, 2007 10:05 pm by DrDave
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CajunRick
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Posted: Thu Mar 29th, 2007 10:36 pm |
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DrDave wrote: it seems to me that when people say that the Catholic church 'broke away' from early christianity (or some other version of the 'Great Apostacy' theory) they are actually saying that my Lord Jesus Christ deliberatly chose 12 men who were such incompetents that the truth of the faith didn't even survive one generation. What a Guy!!??!!:?
He also must have been a liar when he said the gates of hell would not prevail against his Church.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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Talithacumi
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| Joined: | Sat Sep 30th, 2006 |
| Location: | Eastern Ohio, USA |
| Posts: | 268 |
| First Name: | Cheri | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic - Latin Rite |
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Posted: Fri Mar 30th, 2007 12:31 am |
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mrsbill wrote: He's been bringing up the "THE WAY" thing a lot recently, saying Catholics didn't come into existance until way after the early Christians and that he wants to worship as the early Christians did - before any denominationalism or the Catholic church was in existance. He's really been sucked into this movement of getting back to the way our early church fathers worshipped, although he isn't reading ANYTHING from the early church fathers (he's one of these people that if it isn't in the BIBLE, he doesn't trust it), so I don't think he really has a grasp of how they worshipped at all!
I always think it's kind of funny... I've been around a lot of people who talk like that - like they want to go "back to the way it was." Sounds to me like the "Glory Days" mentality. People see all the bad stuff that goes on today and I think from what they read in the Book of Acts about the sharing and caring and loving among the Early Christians, they somehow figure the Early Christians must have had it all together. And really, it's just a desire to escape from all the woes of the present day.
Steven brings up a lot of good points. Not everything was hunky-dory back in those days! People today seem to look back on the "Early Christians" with warm fuzzy feelings and stars in their eyes as if those people just had it all!
I think that even those who only read the Bible - if they read it in context - would see that many times in Paul's writings, he writes to admonish. Sure, he uplifts and encourages and thanks those churches to whom he is writing, but he often has to correct them and basically tell them to behave themselves - or else!
I seem to have read some Catholic wisdom somewhere (probably from Scott Hahn or somebody) which describes the Church as a growing organism - like a tree, for instance. It started out as a seed, and then it broke forth from the ground and it grew and became a sapling and started growing twigs, then branches, then limbs, and it continues to grow, branching out, spreading its glory over the whole yard.
Well, compare that tree to the Church. First the Church was planted by the Seed of Christ's love for us - His passion and death... love bursting forth in pain to produce fruit, so to speak ("unless a grain of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains a grain of wheat."). Thus the Church broke forth out of His agony and His dying and His rising so that we could rise with Him. And the Church grew, fed and watered by the blood of the martyrs (the Early Christians... as Steven pointed out, do we really want to go back to that?). In the beginning, sure, they met in their homes. They were small groups - in the beginning. But the organism grew. It outgrew the little pot that it was in and had to be transplanted into a bigger one. So they started building meeting houses, or churches. At first there were only a few leaders because they, as the "Church", were young, they were few, but as the numbers grew, they scattered. They began to reach out into the world, to stretch their limbs to | | |
