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miles Dei
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| Joined: | Mon Apr 30th, 2007 |
| Location: | Massachusetts USA |
| Posts: | 11 |
| First Name: | miles | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic, currently experiencing "faith moratorium" |
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Posted: Mon Apr 30th, 2007 07:46 pm |
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Good evening and pax vobiscum to you all, my friends at CHN. I've come here to your forum to tell you my story, because honestly, I don't know whom else I can turn to at this point. Please listen, if you would, and pray for me, my brothers and sisters in Christ... I suppose I'll start from the beginning.
There are many people in the US who would look upon the first eighteen years of my life with a wary eye (those of you who have come from very conservative churches, read critically). Where to begin... I was born and raised in the Catholic Church by very theologically liberal parents, and educated in one of the most prestigious and lauded public school systems in the most liberal state in the Union, Massachusetts. From early on I was endowed with a love of God and a love of learning, and was very happy as such. I would serve at the altar on Sundays and pray to God at my bedside every night, and go to school the next morning to write a biology paper defending evolution or debate whether homosexuality was based on biology or one's upbringing (never considering the possibility of a choice). Biblical inerrancy, especially with regards to the Old Testament, was never a concern to me, nor did my pastors feel the need to make it one. Until age eighteen, I was a Catholic and a scholar, and I did relatively well for myself- I'm about to graduate high school with a 4.0 GPA and attend Boston College to study finance.
At home I was given relative lee-way regarding how I spent my free time. Like many teenage boys I found catharsis in video games, humor from television and movies, and sensual and philosophical fulfillment from books and music of many different kinds. The quote in my signature is one from a song by the rock band System of a Down, which first opened up to me the powerful and poetic world of modern music.
As you can tell, the first eighteen years of my life seemed happy and full. I felt at peace with God and the world, and there was no one in my scholarly and mostly Catholic circle of friends who challenged that contention. One day, however, that all changed.
Enter Ryan, a friend-of-a-friend whose father's job had relocated him from the Bible Belt of Alabama to the secular melting pot of New England. Before I met him Ryan had been raised in a bibically emphatic and fiercely Evangelical home. As a result, my friends and I gave him the humorous but harmless nickname of "Christian." One day in the back of another friend's car on the way to the bowling alley, Ryan and I somehow got to discussing philosophy and religion. What then followed would prove shocking for me. "What religion do you belong to?" he asked. "Well, I'm a Christian," I said, "A Roman Catholic. My whole family is." Ryan seemed taken aback. "What are you talking about? Catholics aren't Christians." He then went on to say something about the Hail Mary and the Pope, but I was so offended by his bluntness that I didn't really listen to him.
We didn't really get a chance to discuss the issue further, probably for the better. But even as I came home that night and looked at Jesus on the crucifix over my bed, the remark still stuck inside my mind. "Catholics aren't Christians." I had never considered that before. Such an idea was profoundly disturbing to me, but at the same time perversely interesting. And one of the curses that goes with being a near-perfect student is an insatiable desire for knowledge. So what did I do next? I plunged headlong into Evangelical and Fundamentalist beliefs and history on the Internet and in books, without anyone to guide me, and what I found is what has brought me here to you today at the Coming Home Network.
What I found was horrifying to my teenage secular Catholic sensibilities. I had never realized that there was so much anti-Catholic, anti-modern and anti-intellectual elements within conservative American Protestantism today, so fiercely bent on converting non-believers with the promise of hellfire. New frightening ideas and concepts were burned into my mind, a few of which I'll list here.
1. Jack Chick, and his myriad of anti-Catholic and anti-liberal comic tracts, promising an eternity of hell for those who don't agree with his faith;
2. Creation "science," the attempt by mostly fundamentalist Christians in the US to prove that Genesis (and in a larger sense, the Bible in its entirety) was literally true, word-for-word;
3. Christian websites and ministry organizations designed specifically to propagate fundamentalist/born-again Christianity, and more often than not convert "unsaved," hellbound Catholics;
4. The Rapture/The End Times, espoused by so many right-wing American Protestants, which basically say that Revelation was predicting the imminent return of Christ and that I would be personally left behind to suffer God's wrath if I don't become a born-again (This one is especially serious. It has placed my "decision" to come to the "right faith" against a stopwatch over which I have no control;
5. Satan, whom I had formerly regarded as just a philosophical concept, who now controlled almost every aspect of my life and tempted me daily with theories of evolution, biblical liberalism, heavy metal music and my own Catholic faith;
6. Most striking of all, the tens of millions of Protestant Christians all around the world who believe in these things. As a child I had set these people aside as a cult of religious lunatics, as zealots. But my experience with Ryan changed all that in an instant. These people are very real, and especially in the US, they are everywhere.
All of a sudden, looking at myself as a secular Catholic evolutionist and hard rock enthusiast yielded grim possibilities for my spiritual afterlife. And there are apparently millions of people close to me who agree with this viewpoint.
My research and reading has given me a better understanding of dispensationalism, dominionism and Evangelical/fundamentalist/Pentacostal Christianity, and by researching Catholic apologetics (e.g. The Journey Home), my own faith as well. But something is different this time, brothers and sisters. Religion no longer brings me peace, no longer solace, but only fear and anxiety. The steadfastness of my faith in the Church, and everything I once believed, has been shattered. Any questions of faith are now colored with prophecies of apocalyptic doom and the prospect of eternal suffering in the lake of fire. I now ask myself things I would have never considered before. Is everything that I do, everything I know, everything I think, a lie? Has the Devil tricked me so well that I don't even notice him doing it? Has the Whore of Babylon seduced me so well that it has led me to swear allegiance to a false and idolatrous Church?
I am fully aware of the mental implications of these questions and am currently seeking counseling and possibly medication to deal with my anxiety and what is now seeming to become paranoia. I have been crushed, dear friends, and this story should prove to you that these questions of faith have shook me to the very foundation of my being. I no longer know for sure whether the God I pray to is looking down on me in pity and remorse, or anger and wrath for my inability to reply to His divine evangelists. This isn't a melodramatic sob story I'm telling you to gain attention, friends- it's the story of a broken person.
That is why I present myself here today, brothers and sisters, because I know that you have been in this position before and can help me. But even now I can almost see myself within the stark black-and-white panel of a Chick tract, a beleaguered Romanist desperately trying to redeem his beliefs before turning to Christ or suffering in hell for eternity. I no longer know what to believe, friends. I'm asking for any advice you have to offer, having experienced these other faiths before and knowing them better than I. But most of all, friends, I ask you to pray that God has mercy on my tormented soul, because know I already am. Let's hope He hears us.
May the Truth be revealed unto us and all of God's children, and may He give us the time to know that we are right. Amen.
Pax vobiscum,
miles Dei
____________________
There's only one true path in life,
The road that leads to All leads to One,
There's only one true path in life,
The road that leads to our Vision.
-Serj Tankian
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CajunRick
Network Helper
| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5347 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Mon Apr 30th, 2007 08:01 pm |
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miles Dei wrote: That is why I present myself here today, brothers and sisters, because I know that you have been in this position before and can help me.
Welcome to the Coming Home Network, Miles. We're happy to have you here with us, and to have a chance to share our faith with you.
I have not been where you are, so I won't attempt to deal with your emotional quandry at this time. I know others will dive in and share their experiences with you. Meanwhile, know that you have encountered the most hateful element of "Christianity". Jesus said he wanted us all to be one as he and the Father are one, and when Christians target each other, they are not doing God's work. How could anyone look at John Paul II or Blessed Teresa of Calcutta and claim that they are not Christian? The very thought boggles the mind.
Welcome again, Miles. We will do our best to help you find your way until you are once again safely, comfortably home.
____________________
Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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JasPax
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| Joined: | Wed Nov 22nd, 2006 |
| Location: | North Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 247 |
| First Name: | James | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Episcopal to Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Apr 30th, 2007 10:16 pm |
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Hello Miles,
I'll make a few short comments. I expect others can answer in more detail:
1. Not all Protestants hold views about the Catholic Church that your friend Ryan expressed to you. Jack Chick and some of the other sites you have visited are extreme and I would not take them seriously.
2. It is normal for someone your age to be searching. Confusion is also normal when you learn of views you never knew existed. Take your time. (Prayer is good)
3. Why not take a deep breath. Leave all that "new" stuff alone. Study the Catholic Catechism and learn with new eyes what the Church really teaches. Use the index in back to search for particular topics that concern you.
4. Are you attending Mass regularly? I suggest you do that.
5. Make an appointment with a Catholic priest and tell him your concerns. He's heard it before and will surely have more suggestions.
God's Peace to You,
____________________
James
"Abide in me, and I in you..." John 15:4
"He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him." John 6:56
RSV-2CE
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Gnyssa
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| Joined: | Sat Nov 18th, 2006 |
| Location: | California USA |
| Posts: | 29 |
| First Name: | Gnyssa | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Episcopalian, Roman Catholic since 2003, RC priest 2006 |
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Posted: Mon Apr 30th, 2007 10:24 pm |
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Dear Friend,
I am sorry that you have experienced such an emotional trauma. Please know that the Catholic Church is here to help you and not to brainwash you.
But there is something I ask you to reflect on. You will not find Catholics, lay or priests, blasting other denominations and saying "Pentecostals are not real Christians." I am sure there is an exception somewhere, but it is a matter of doctrine that in most cases we respect other religions and their right to freedom of conscience. If you were to read the documents of Vatican II, you will find them saying respectful things about other Christians, whom we call "seperated brethern", and also about other religions including Judaism and Islam.
Now, I ask you to compare that kind of gentle attitude to the Chick Publications message, and the Fundamentalists who espouse it. Which seems to you to be the more Christian? I submit to you that it is the Catholic Church, with its respect for the beliefs of others which bst manifests the compassion of Christ, who loved the wicked as much as the holy people.
In the Catholic Church, there are matters which are points of doctrine and we generally do not challenge them. I see now point, and have no real desire, to criticise the doctrine of the Holy Trinity, for example. But there are other points which we do allow discussion, even debate and disagreement. The theory of evolution, which you mention, is one of them, and as I am sure you know, there are a number of different theories of evolution which can all be traced back to Darwin. I say this to point out that the Catholic Church asks you to use your mind, your education, your reason, to reflect on doctrine - not that you blindly agree to every dictate of one or other preacher. Unlike many Protestant communities we do not have one theologians, like Calvin, or Luther, who had the last word of theology. We have many "Doctors of the Church" as we like to call them who were our leaders and guides, in communion with the whole mind of the Church and our Popes. Again, I submit to you that the use of the human intellect indicates a humanity and compassion in the Catholic Church, which is not found in fundamentalist circles.
I do not know if this is helpful, but I hope that it is and that you will keep on asking questions and joining us here. Welcome home!
Gnyssa
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mg57
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Tolland County, Connecticut USA |
| Posts: | 180 |
| First Name: | mg57 | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Infant Baptised Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Apr 30th, 2007 11:20 pm |
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Hi Miles -
I see by your post and profile that you're eighteen, - I'll give you credit for "digging in", - I wasn't at your point until a few years later   .
If I may suggest, you might benefit and save some time by reading biographies of Catholic converts which will serve to distill and focus where you're needing to go theologically and spiritually through their own stories.
Most of us on the board have probably read and can recommend these to get you started -
1. Surprised By Truth - vols. - 1-3, ed. by Patrick Madrid
http://www.amazon.com/Surprised-Truth-Converts-Biblical-Historical/dp/0964261081/ref=cm_lmf_tit_1_rdssss0/002-9239220-5363247
2. Crossing The Tiber - Steve Ray - Ignatius Press
http://www.ignatius.com/ViewProduct.aspx?SID=1&Product_ID=403&SKU=CTT-P&
This next one is not a biography, but will address where you are spiritually right now, and what you're going through -
3. Spiritual Passages by Fr. Benedict Groeschel
http://www.leafletonline.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_24_37_378&products_id=2117&zenid=5cdb2cf8e0bfb9d3e5ea24c5e4668567
4. Catholicism and Fundamentalism - Karl Keating - Ignatius Press
http://www.ignatius.com/ViewProduct.aspx?SID=1&Product_ID=267&AFID=12&
No doubt there are many other fine titles out there along with sound advise that others may add, but these will get you going.
God bless.
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Br_Carlo
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Tyler, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 150 |
| First Name: | Br_Carlo (Vince Brach) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Presbyterian, Episcopalian, CATHOLIC |
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Posted: Mon Apr 30th, 2007 11:20 pm |
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God's peace. Those who posted before me have put forth most excellent points, so I will add only one more which I am perhaps uniquely qualified to address.
I am a Catholic science teacher, published scientist, and lay Franciscan who holds a Ph.D. in biology. Except for a few important points--such as the doctrine that all human beings descended from a single human pair--the Church gives us complete liberty to explore creation mechanisms, be they evolutionary or whatever, in our investigation of the natural world. The Catholic Church is the only Christian body which allows this type of intellectual freedom. I have observed that the Church bends over backwards to accomodate even what seem to me to be the most radical of teachers in its efforts to support intellectual freedom. It draws the line only where core doctrine is challenged.
If you are a thinker, you should be encouraged by this. Down the road from where I teach, there is a "Christian" high school which will fire you if you even suggest that evolution might contain a grain of truth. This great citadel of learning uses special biology textbooks written to push this belief (along with "young-earth creation science"), and call it "scientific creationism" or "intelligent design". I personally don't look to outfits like this for spiritual direction, and neither should you. Blessings, ~Br_Carlo~
Last edited on Tue May 1st, 2007 07:56 am by Br_Carlo
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anfan
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
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Posted: Mon Apr 30th, 2007 11:59 pm |
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A couple of websites you might find helpful:
Catholic Answers http://www.catholic.com
Next Wave Faithful http://www.nextwavefaithful.com
Pax
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Luke12:48
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| Joined: | Sat Sep 30th, 2006 |
| Location: | Southeast, Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 120 |
| First Name: | Kate | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle catholic, left for many years, returned June 2006 |
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Posted: Tue May 1st, 2007 12:30 am |
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I am much older than you but found myself in the same position a year ago. It can be overwhelming. Take your time and think things through carefully. Just because " millions of people close to you" believe something, does not make it true. If so, the earth would still be flat 
I have had the opportunity to discuss or debate issues with people from various denominations and it often seems that the less logic involved in an interpretation of scripture, the more vehemence with which it is delivered. It is like yelling louder to someone who speaks a foreign language --not gonna work but it can be hard to stand up to. I have learned that I cannot convince anyone to view or interpret the Bible any differently because of the science but when asked, I can present what I believe and why and then trust in God to do the rest. Which approach do you think Christ would have used--Chick tracts?
So much of today's educational process is on conformity not true inquiry. The lack of true science education (or perhaps understanding) leaves many individuals ill-equipped to really evaluate the claims being made. I watched a presentation in which a creation "expert" (ie pastor who downloaded some power point slides from the web--by his own admission) proceeded to make completely illogical statements and stop just short of suggesting a conspiracy theory. His proof was "a woman reported...." and he would go on to make some outlandish claim and then say that her statement was proof --not exactly material for publication. Yet, I watched a room full of people swayed by this type of "evidence" He believed it -I have no doubt but that does not make it true. He was just unwilling or perhaps unable to "see" anything else.
I can evaluate his science and find it lacking but his faith--that is not for me to judge but I can't imagine suggesting that he would burn in hell because he does not believe as I do. None of us should make judgements about the faith of another.
You say you no longer find peace "The steadfastness of my faith in the Church, and everything I once believed, has been shattered. "
You were raised with this faith and perhaps had never questioned it before. Do not be afraid of questioning it. If it is true, then trust that you will be led to where you belong. Maybe you are taking another step forward and being asked to take the faith you were raised with and really make it your own.
I sent you a separate PM but wanted to add a reading suggestion or two. I really found that PJPs encyclical Faith and Reason was very helpful and more recently, I came across The Language of God by Francis Collins (director of the Human Genome project) Maybe one of these will speak to you...
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heardclarke
Member
| Joined: | Mon Apr 9th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 199 |
| First Name: | Lisa | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Episcopalian; confirmed RC Easter 2005 |
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Posted: Tue May 1st, 2007 12:36 am |
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Dear Miles,
I know exactly what you mean about the fear that the Catholic Church is a deception. We want and desperately need the truth, and it is terrifying to find our whole world view unraveling just because someone pulled at one little thread. Not long ago I was at a luncheon where a Protestant minister verbally attacked the Catholic Church, saying it was corrupt and the hierarchy didn't care about the people, it was nothing but a lot of unnatural and repressive rules, etc. He was an old friend of my family's and he has kidded around with me and even irritated me before about politics and such, but this was totally different. Obviously he hates the Church and feels it is all a bunch of lies. This really hurt since he knows I just converted a couple of years ago. I just couldn't avoid the thought: what if he is right and I've been fooled? What have I done?
There is no easy answer to this kind of doubt and fear. I will share with you a few things that I have found helpful, however.
1. My friends in the Catholic Church NEVER discuss other churches in that hostile way. Every one of them knows that all Christian churches are seeking the truth in Christ. When I was still an Episcopalian, they invariably welcomed any dialogue I wished to pursue and answered my questions honestly. They simply didn't feel the need to put other Christians down. Jesus said, "In my Father's House are many mansions." In other words, there is room for everyone who truly loves and follows Him.
2. We often feel guilty for thinking that the Church fails to live up to her promises. The Church does not claim to be perfect in all things. Indeed, Pope John Paul II himself, a few years ago, confessed her failings to a worldwide audience and asked forgiveness for them. (Have you observed any evangelical Christians doing likewise? I haven't.)
3. I am humbled almost daily by the Catholics around me who strive for holiness, even as they admit and grieve for their mistakes. This is not an act. What would be the point of that? It is simply too much work unless they mean it. "By their fruits you shall know them."
4. Taking medication and/or getting counseling is not a sign of weakness. It is an honest attempt to fight back against whatever is holding you down. I know. I've done both, and if I hadn't, I might not still be married now, or even be alive. Anxiety and depression are Satan's tools. I have to choose Pope John Paul's answer: Be not afraid! Become what you are!
5. Finally, the sacraments WORK. There have been plenty of times when I have hardly dared to approach the altar for Communion because of my temptations, doubts and fears; I thought surely it must be a terrible sin to act as if I believed in the face of all that inner chaos. I was especially scared just before my Confirmation. The prayer of St. Thomas is a great help at such a moment; "Lord, I believe. Help Thou my unbelief." I have NEVER felt worse after Reconciliation or Communion, and often I feel much better, especially after Reconciliation. As Jesus said, the well people do not need a doctor; it is the sick. He came to save SINNERS. I am tempted and fearful, and I fail Him every day.....and that is why He came down from Heaven....to lift me up and carry me home.
Miles, even if this post doesn't help you, keep trying. Never give up. You will find the answer....He's waiting for you.
With love in Christ,
Lisa
____________________
Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est.
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Darlene
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Pocono Mountains, Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 868 |
| First Name: | Darlene | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Christian, trusting His love and forgiveness |
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Posted: Tue May 1st, 2007 12:40 am |
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Dear Miles, I will try to help you as best as I can with Jesus help. Good evening and pax vobiscum to you all, my friends at CHN. I've come here to your forum to tell you my story, because honestly, I don't know whom else I can turn to at this point. Please listen, if you would, and pray for me, my brothers and sisters in Christ... I suppose I'll start from the beginning. I will pray for you this evening, Miles.
There are many people in the US who would look upon the first eighteen years of my life with a wary eye (those of you who have come from very conservative churches, read critically). Where to begin... I was born and raised in the Catholic Church by very theologically liberal parents, and educated in one of the most prestigious and lauded public school systems in the most liberal state in the Union, Massachusetts. From early on I was endowed with a love of God and a love of learning, and was very happy as such. I would serve at the altar on Sundays and pray to God at my bedside every night, and go to school the next morning to write a biology paper defending evolution or debate whether homosexuality was based on biology or one's upbringing (never considering the possibility of a choice). Biblical inerrancy, especially with regards to the Old Testament, was never a concern to me, nor did my pastors feel the need to make it one. Until age eighteen, I was a Catholic and a scholar, and I did relatively well for myself- I'm about to graduate high school with a 4.0 GPA and attend Boston College to study finance.
So what it seems you are saying is that from your Catholic upbringing you gained a love and respect for God and also that you had a strong inclination towards intellectualism.
At home I was given relative lee-way regarding how I spent my free time. Like many teenage boys I found catharsis in video games, humor from television and movies, and sensual and philosophical fulfillment from books and music of many different kinds. The quote in my signature is one from a song by the rock band System of a Down, which first opened up to me the powerful and poetic world of modern music.
Many who have been raised in Christian homes, both Catholic and Protestant, have gone the same way as you. The pressures from our culture on young people to deny their Christian faith have caused so many to wander off into secular humanism, situational ethics, and relativism, resulting in an ungodly life style.
As you can tell, the first eighteen years of my life seemed happy and full. I felt at peace with God and the world, and there was no one in my scholarly and mostly Catholic circle of friends who challenged that contention. One day, however, that all changed.
Enter Ryan, a friend-of-a-friend whose father's job had relocated him from the Bible Belt of Alabama to the secular melting pot of New England. Before I met him Ryan had been raised in a bibically emphatic and fiercely Evangelical home. As a result, my friends and I gave him the humorous but harmless nickname of "Christian." One day in the back of another friend's car on the way to the bowling alley, Ryan and I somehow got to discussing philosophy and religion. What then followed would prove shocking for me. "What religion do you belong to?" he asked. "Well, I'm a Christian," I said, "A Roman Catholic. My whole family is." Ryan seemed taken aback. "What are you talking about? Catholics aren't Christians." He then went on to say something about the Hail Mary and the Pope, but I was so offended by his bluntness that I didn't really listen to him. I used to say and believe the same thing. I thought Catholics worshipped idols, prayed to statues, and sinned as much as they wanted to because they could go to confession. And above all, I believed they weren't "saved" because they didn't believe in being born again as Evangelical Protestants did.
We didn't really get a chance to discuss the issue further, probably for the better. But even as I came home that night and looked at Jesus on the crucifix over my bed, the remark still stuck inside my mind. "Catholics aren't Christians." I had never considered that before. Such an idea was profoundly disturbing to me, but at the same time perversely interesting. And one of the curses that goes with being a near-perfect student is an insatiable desire for knowledge. So what did I do next? I plunged headlong into Evangelical and Fundamentalist beliefs and history on the Internet and in books, without anyone to guide me, and what I found is what has brought me here to you today at the Coming Home Network. Guess what Miles? My situation is yours in reverse. I began having serious questions about my Protestant faith. I began to question Sola Scriptura and wondered why it was that the Protestant churches were so disunified. I would wonder when there would be another "church split" in the church I was attending. Didn't Jesus pray in John 17 that He wanted us to be one, as He and His father are one? Yet, all around me, I saw such brokeness. Anyone could interpret the Bible any way they pleased. There was no real authority to settle disputes or interpret doctrine. Often, doctrine was considered a "dirty" word that only caused dissention, so seldom was it ever mentioned.
What I found was horrifying to my teenage secular Catholic sensibilities. I had never realized that there was so much anti-Catholic, anti-modern and anti-intellectual elements within conservative American Protestantism today, so fiercely bent on converting non-believers with the promise of hellfire. New frightening ideas and concepts were burned into my mind, a few of which I'll list here.
Many Evangelical Protestants, esp. those who consider themselves Fundamentalist, see it as their mission to convert Catholics and pull them out of the Catholic Church. I know because at one time I was one of those who would go to Catholic high schools and colleges, even outside Catholic churches. to convince Catholics of the error of their ways.
1. Jack Chick, and his myriad of anti-Catholic and anti-liberal comic tracts, promising an eternity of hell for those who don't agree with his faith; I am very familiar with Chick tracts and used to enjoy handing these out. They are so hateful and theologically incorrect. They are full of lies, but if one does not know the truth of the Catholic faith, they can be deceived by such nonsense.
2 Creation "science," the attempt by mostly fundamentalist Christians in the US to prove that Genesis (and in a larger sense, the Bible in its entirety) was literally true, word-for-word;
Again Miles, I understand that kind of "boxed" thinking because I belonged to a church that had a split because the pastor did not believe in the literal interpretation of Genesis, but considered that the days could be more than 24 hour days. He had a Physics degree and believed that evolution can be seen within creation. However, he acknowledged that God is the creator of the universe and there is still much that we don't understand. This church split was ugly, and many cast doubt on this pastor's reputation, even declaring that they could no longer trust that he was right with God. I and others within the church, tried so hard just to keep everyone together and prevent the church from splitting, but to no avail.
3. Christian websites and ministry organizations designed specifically to propagate fundamentalist/born-again Christianity, and more often than not convert "unsaved," hellbound Catholics;
Yes, in fact just recently I heard on a station called Family Radio, (very anti-Catholic), that they are sending missionaries to Fatima this May to distribute Bibles and tracts to those who are celebrating the "so called miracles" that occurred there some 90 yrs. ago.
4. The Rapture/The End Times, espoused by so many right-wing American Protestants, which basically say that Revelation was predicting the imminent return of Christ and that I would be personally left behind to suffer God's wrath if I don't become a born-again (This one is especially serious. It has placed my "decision" to come to the "right faith" against a stopwatch over which I have no control;
You don't have to look very far back into history to discover that this rapture thinking sprung up from two men in the early 19th Century, Darby and Scofield. There may have been some others that were involved as well. But it was a movement that sprang up within Protestantism and caught on like wildfire in the 20th Century. Some years ago, I heard one of these end times preachers say that Jesus would not want the church to go through the Great Tribulation because He doesn't want a "battered bride." I was furious at such an ignorant comment. What about all the martyrs who died for their faith? Their blood cries out under the altar for justice, as Revelation tells us. They have a special place in Heaven. This end times preaching tells Christians, God doesn't want His church to suffer so it will be taken out of the world before the tribulation. What about all those Christians who are suffering for their faith now, such as in Sudan, China, and various parts of Africa and the Middle East? So much of this end times teaching uses scare tactics to try and frighten people into repentance. But more importantly, most of it is taken out of context from scripture.
5. Satan, whom I had formerly regarded as just a philosophical concept, who now controlled almost every aspect of my life and tempted me daily with theories of evolution, biblical liberalism, heavy metal music and my own Catholic faith;
Miles, this comment shows me that you were not catechized well or else you have forgotten what you were taught. Catholic teaching tells us that Satan is very real, and is the enemy of our souls. In fact, today I was watching Father Corapi, and he spoke about Satan, Heaven and Hell in a very real way.
6. Most striking of all, the tens of millions of Protestant Christians all around the world who believe in these things. As a child I had set these people aside as a cult of religious lunatics, as zealots. But my experience with Ryan changed all that in an instant. These people are very real, and especially in the US, they are everywhere.
Just so you know, not all Protestant Christians are this narrow minded. Please understand that it is an ignorance of the Catholic faith that many of them believe the way they do. As you can see from our forum, many of us were misled or taught wrongly about Catholicism, but the Lord in His mercy has stripped away the misconceptions and wrong attituudes that we once possessed.
All of a sudden, looking at myself as a secular Catholic evolutionist and hard rock enthusiast yielded grim possibilities for my spiritual afterlife. And there are apparently millions of people close to me who agree with this viewpoint.
Miles, the Lord Jesus is trying to bring you back on the right path. Don't become disheartened. Many of us have gone off the path and strayed into erroneous beliefs. Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would guide us into the truth. Pray and ask that He lead you into the fullness of His truth.
My research and reading has given me a better understanding of dispensationalism, dominionism and Evangelical/fundamentalist/Pentacostal Christianity, and by researching Catholic apologetics (e.g. The Journey Home), my own faith as well. But something is different this time, brothers and sisters. Religion no longer brings me peace, no longer solace, but only fear and anxiety. The steadfastness of my faith in the Church, and everything I once believed, has been shattered.
Remember that our Christian faith is in a Person, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. He said, "You will find me when you seek me with all of your heart." Cast your cares and anxieties upon Him, and He will hear and answer you. He will comfort you in a way that is beyond human understanding. Any questions of faith are now colored with prophecies of apocalyptic doom and the prospect of eternal suffering in the lake of fire. I now ask myself things I would have never considered before. Is everything that I do, everything I know, everything I think, a lie? Has the Devil tricked me so well that I don't even notice him doing it? Boy do I ever understand that one only from the opposite side of the spectrum. As I began to see my Protestant beliefs being shattered all around me, I started to question whether I could trust anything that I had believed to be true. I found myself in the land of Protestant situational ethics and relativism. The bright side is that I have been discovering Truth through learning about the Catholic faith. I have been growing in my prayer life in a way that I never did as a Protestant. I have come to appreciate the depth of my Christian faith through "Catholic" eyes. Fundamentalism is very brain oriented, moreso than heart oriented. It only goes so far, then stops. How can one be in love with the letter, so to speak, but not the One who is behind the letter, who Is, and Was, and Is to Come? Sola scriptura, which Protestantism is founded on, is a fallacy. Has the Whore of Babylon seduced me so well that it has led me to swear allegiance to a false and idolatrous Church?
If you look deeper into this kind of thinking, you will see that they take scripture out of context from the book of Revelation. Jerusalem, a city set on seven hills, killed the prophets and killed Jesus. Remember, even Jesus wept over Jerusalem, and foretold of the destruction of the temple of Jerusalem, which occurred in 70 A.D.
I am fully aware of the mental implications of these questions and am currently seeking counseling and possibly medication to deal with my anxiety and what is now seeming to become paranoia.
Please be mindful of who you seek counseling from. Many in the field of Psychology are anti-Christian, and some think that belief in God and having faith are an unneccessary crutch, and even contribute to mental instability. So do some investigating of who ever it is that you seek counseling from, so that they do not try to dissuade you from Christian faith altogether. I have been crushed, dear friends, and this story should prove to you that these questions of faith have shook me to the very foundation of my being. I no longer know for sure whether the God I pray to is looking down on me in pity and remorse, or anger and wrath for my inability to reply to His divine evangelists. This isn't a melodramatic sob story I'm telling you to gain attention, friends- it's the story of a broken person.
I suggest that you read some of the Psalms, like Psalms 91, 121 and 139. These have been a comfort to my soul on many occasions.
That is why I present myself here today, brothers and sisters, because I know that you have been in this position before and can help me. But even now I can almost see myself within the stark black-and-white panel of a Chick tract, a beleaguered Romanist desperately trying to redeem his beliefs before turning to Christ or suffering in hell for eternity. I no longer know what to believe, friends. I'm asking for any advice you have to offer, having experienced these other faiths before and knowing them better than I. But most of all, friends, I ask you to pray that God has mercy on my tormented soul, because know I already am. Let's hope He hears us.
Miles, I prayed for you after reading your post and I BELIEVE God that He does and will answer prayer. I have no doubt that you have been troubled by a Spirit that is NOT of God, but Satan. Please do not despair. Jesus said, "Even if you have faith as of a mustard seed, you can move mountains." A mustard seed is very tiny, yet imagine if even from the smallest amount of faith, God can begin a work within in your heart to believe Him once again. Miles, He can do this for you.
May the Truth be revealed unto us and all of God's children, and may He give us the time to know that we are right. Amen. Amen indeed.
Pax vobiscum,
miles Dei
Love in Christ Jesus,
Darlene
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The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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maryjean
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| Joined: | Sat Feb 24th, 2007 |
| Location: | York County, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 36 |
| First Name: | Jean | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Presbyterian to non-practicing to Catholic |
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Posted: Tue May 1st, 2007 01:38 am |
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Dear Miles,
There are many others far more learned and theologically experienced than me on this forum, but I would like to suggest 2 things to you. Both are based on my own journey.
A few years ago while I was searching for the way, I was sitting in my parents’ very fundamentalist Presbyterian church listening to the pastor’s sermon. In it he made a comment about ‘what Roman Catholics do/believe’ and I thought to myself ‘but my friend M. at work doesn’t, and my good friends when I lived in New York .P and J. and M. never did…’ so I decided to find out what Catholics really believe. So I read the Catechism, and discovered that there was absolutely nothing like what he said in there, and frankly there was absolutely nothing in it I could disagree with at all. So I suggest that you also read the Catechism and see what it says.
The other thing is the Easter vigil a few weeks ago. This was my first time (Presbyterians do a Sunrise service, not a vigil) and I was struck by not only the beauty of the service, but also the repeating of the Baptismal vows. Now think to yourself, would Satan ask us to renounce him and all his works? It seems a bit counterproductive, not logical at all. So how could a Church that asks us to renounce Satan and all his works on a routine basis be an agent of Satan?
Jean
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Psalm 4
jean
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Talithacumi
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| Joined: | Sat Sep 30th, 2006 |
| Location: | Eastern Ohio, USA |
| Posts: | 267 |
| First Name: | Cheri | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic - Latin Rite |
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Posted: Tue May 1st, 2007 02:09 am |
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Miles,
First of all, welcome! I hope you find a place here. I think this forum is a place of great support and "fellowship," - if I may use a Protestant term.
Well, I may be older than you, but I think I do know how you feel - somewhat. I can't profess to be a 4.0 genius and there are certainly others who are more educated and well-read than I am, but I do tend to think a lot and to analyze perhaps too much. I have had friends and family tell me this.
This is what I'm sensing through what you've written (I may be wrong; if so, I apologize, OK?). But I'm seeing a young man who's very intelligent, who knows he's intelligent, who perhaps takes great pride in being intelligent. But suddenly his most fundamental beliefs have been called into question. He has had no experience with how to deal with questions such as these simply because he's never had cause to have to answer them or even think about them, really; and he finds that everything he's known, everything he's understood, has suddenly been turned upside-down. Gone is his comfort zone, gone is the philosophical world in which he reigned supreme.
My dear, it is my personal opinion that what you are experiencing is basically growing pains - in your own personal life, and in your spiritual life.
If I may make a suggestion: Breathe and relax. I think maybe you've hit spiritual puberty. Your "voice" is cracking, you're growing thoughts you didn't know existed, you've never experienced these thoughts and sensations before. Hey, you're just growing up!
Please don't think I'm trying to sound condescending. But the fact is, you're only eighteen. You have lots of growing to do. No doubt you're very smart, and I commend you for holding fast to your beliefs - or at least for wanting to - where others your age might just let things slide with no struggle at all and allow themselves to succumb to the things of this world.
To me it seems that you've reached a point that I reached much later than you did: that point where you suddenly realized that there are other Christians who hate you - or at least distrust you - just for being Catholic. I imagine that you knew about anti-Catholicism, but if you're like I was, I used to think it was just something that happened in, say, Ireland, or Nazi Germany... not at home in your own back yard! But I, too, had an "encounter" with a Christian who wasn't Catholic. The encounter lasted awhile. But through it I learned all kinds of things I'd never known before about Protestantism. But you know what? It challenged me. And you know what they say about challenges: they'll either kill you or make you stronger. I hope that, in some way at least, I have become stronger. You're smart. And you're already on the right track. You've taken up the challenge. You've already started studying in order to arm yourself for the challenge. Good!
You have begun, I think, to realize that you are in a battle. You're the young kid in the trenches that's suddenly facing his own mortality - and that of those around him. You're scared. You don't even know who you're fighting. But you are a soldier. It's your duty and honor to fight for your Homeland. But you have to remember that you cannot fight alone. And you can't fight only with intelligence. Sure, intelligence is good; studying is good. Learning and knowledge are good. But this is only "textbook" knowledge. Now you need wisdom. And wisdom comes from experience. God is putting you out there. Testing your resolve. Testing your heart. You need to make yourself His apprentice. Ever see Star Wars? Pretend you are Luke. Let the Holy Spirit be your "Yoda." Let Him equip you with all that you need to fight the "Dark Side." Let Him show you how to fight.
But you have to take time to be with Him. Spend time alone with Him in prayer. He will show you the secrets of the Enemy (btw, I feel prevailed upon to correct you: Satan is not just some philosophical concept... he's very real and you must learn to deal with him). The Holy Spirit will show you - if you let Him - Satan's tricks and how you can come against him and turn them on himself.
OK, I'm getting carried away in my analogy here, but all I'm trying to say, simply, is to pray and spend time with God and He will help you. But you have to "Be still and know that He is God." Try not to panic, try not to feel too overwhelmed. You are young. Unless God sees fit to take you at a young age for some reason, you have time on your hands. Make good use of your time; don't waste it on worrying, but on learning how to rely on God. And don't kick yourself when you don't understand something. It's OK if you don't understand everything all at once. None of us has instantaneous knowledge. It's something you grow into gradually.
So relax. I don't mean to oversimplify at all, but just go spend some quiet time with the Lord. Go pray in front of the Blessed Sacrament. Schedule a daily appointment with God.
Yeah, I know... easier said than done and I could do with following my own advice better than I do. But from experience, I know that the times that I have been strong are the times that I've admitted to being weak and I've allowed God to reign supreme, the times that I've surrendered my own self and my own thoughts and conformed to His will instead of my own. Do that and see what happens. I'll be praying for you.
JMJ
- Cheri
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“We do not want a Church that will move with the world; we want a Church that will move the world.”
- G.K. Chesterton
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sewnsew
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 842 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Tue May 1st, 2007 01:16 pm |
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| Even though you are a catholic it may be helpful to attend an RCIA class in your parish. There you will meet people seeking answers, some who have never been "churched" and some leaving protestant traditions behind in their search for truth. They will be able to give you a less biased view on beliefs on both sides of the Tiber. Also for light and easy reading try the Catholisim for dummies, and several other "how to books" - you have a lot on your plate and these book are good concise books. Also listen to the journey home- you can listen and watch the archives off of EWTN website. Books by Scott Han and other apologetics are good, many of them are written by form protestant ministers and so they are very balanced in their writings as to what the Catholic church means to them.
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miles Dei
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| Joined: | Mon Apr 30th, 2007 |
| Location: | Massachusetts USA |
| Posts: | 11 |
| First Name: | miles | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic, currently experiencing "faith moratorium" |
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Posted: Tue May 1st, 2007 01:16 pm |
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Thank you all so much for your help. It is comforting to know that so many of you have been in this position before, and have access to so many resources to help me continue the healing.
I have been doing everything I can, reading books many of you have mentioned and visiting some of the sites many of you have recommended. I realize that much of the anti-Catholic ethos in Fundamentalist Christendom is based on bad theology and folklore, and that too is comforting to me.
However, as a student, I have always believed that there is a reason- a fundamental truth- behind every word and practice upheld by mankind. There is a reason I'm trying so hard to remain Catholic, for instance- but at the same time, there must be a reason why so many Evangelicals and Fundamentalists believe what they believe (especially regarding biblical inerrancy, but that's a matter for another time). And the latter is something that I have been struggling with, as you can tell. Anything any of you can offer to enlighten me would be greatly, greatly appreciated.
Understand, my friends: I want to remain in the Church. With all my heart and soul, I do. But I'm coming to the realization that there are equally faithful and passionate people that want just the opposite... and I'm trying to piece together why that is.
This has been a true emotional test for me, perhaps even an identity crisis. But with the support of friends like you, my own pastor, and unshakable faith in God, I have no doubt that I will be delivered from it. Bless you and thank you all, once again. I will be in touch and praying for all of us.
In nomine Patris,
miles
____________________
There's only one true path in life,
The road that leads to All leads to One,
There's only one true path in life,
The road that leads to our Vision.
-Serj Tankian
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sewnsew
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 842 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Tue May 1st, 2007 01:17 pm |
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| Even though you are a catholic it may be helpful to attend an RCIA class in your parish. There you will meet people seeking answers, some who have never been "churched" and some leaving protestant traditions behind in their search for truth. They will be able to give you a less biased view on beliefs on both sides of the Tiber. Also for light and easy reading try the Catholisim for dummies, and several other "how to books" - you have a lot on your plate and these book are good concise books. Also listen to the journey home- you can listen and watch the archives off of EWTN website. Books by Scott Han and other apologetics are good, many of them are written by form protestant ministers and so they are very balanced in their writings as to what the Catholic church means to them.
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Candlemass
Member
| Joined: | Tue May 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Hudson, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 465 |
| First Name: | Mark | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, AOG, Baptist, non - denominational, Anglican, RCC for life! |
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Posted: Tue May 1st, 2007 09:13 pm |
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Hey dood, "christian" sites like that used to freak me out as well, especially the anti-rock/metal ones, claiming all rock music was of the devil, and the whole rhetoric against the Catholic Church, then I realized, these are religious wackos! I've met some of them, they don't love people, they're obsessed with promoting their own agenda and creating fear, I still struggle with mental issues and fear, but not from those extemeists!
Stay clear of "Chick" publications! lol
Let me add something a bit toung in cheek, if God is really like these wackos say He is, if He is indeed like them, I'd rather go to hell w/the Catholics!
They make God out to be a monster and a butcher, woe to them!
Last edited on Tue May 1st, 2007 09:23 pm by Candlemass
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"For I the blind who once could see, the bell tolls for me!"
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Candlemass
Member
| Joined: | Tue May 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Hudson, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 465 |
| First Name: | Mark | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, AOG, Baptist, non - denominational, Anglican, RCC for lif | | | |
