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miles Dei
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| Joined: | Mon Apr 30th, 2007 |
| Location: | Massachusetts USA |
| Posts: | 11 |
| First Name: | miles | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic, currently experiencing "faith moratorium" |
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Posted: Wed May 2nd, 2007 02:31 am |
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Good evening, everyone, and thanks so much again for all the help and support you have offered me since my arrival here last night. I hate to jump right back into heavy theology the way I did at my introduction last night, but I still have a few questions I would like to "get off my chest" as soon as possible. The topic on my mind tonight is music, and how, as a Christian, I should judge it and partake of it. A little history is in order here (how rude of me to keep telling stories about myself -_-)...
I never really listened to music of any kind until about my freshman year in high school. At that time, my friend introduced me to the popular hard rock band System of a Down. He priased them for their eclectic, edgey sound, provocative and philosophical lyrics, and passionate support for recognition of the Armenian Genocide of 1915 (my friend, also a Catholic, is of Armenian descent, and we have worked for awareness and recognition of the Genocide within our own community).
Long story short, I gave System a listen and loved what I heard. They became, in a sense, my "gateway" into modern music. From here on out I began to see music as much more than just something that was played on the radio, and more as a perfect medium of emotional expression and release. From epic tales to stories of love and loneliness to brute force and aggression and mellow melodies, I felt that there was no nuance of life, no aspect of the daily human struggle that could not be artfully depicted with the guitar and the synthesizer. These bands are only a few of the hundreds that I took to heart and zealously enjoyed.
You may notice that bands of a Christian or faith-based persuasion are conspicuously absent from this list. I had rationalized to myself at some point that Christian "worship music," what some of you may know as CCM, was stylistically and intellectually inferior to modern secular music, and "geared towards Protestants" anyway. I had also concluded that beliefs should not be "peddled" within the sphere of public music (a hypocritical position, I've come to realize, given the semi-political nature of bands like System, Rammstein, etc.) I was not aware of any Christian bands or artists that would fit my musical tastes, and made no effort to find any. On the other end of the spectrum, however, I had begun to embrace artists or groups whose decidedly nihilistic or anti-religious stances began to make me uncomfortable. More rationalizations followed: "It's just harmless fun," I thought to myself. "It's not going to change the way you believe." Matthew 15:11often came to mind as I thought about these things.
This isn't to say, however, that I didn't try to find a spiritual or redeeming message from the music that I did listen to. Quite the contrary: one of my initial draws to music was its unique ability to speak to the human spirit and convey the deepest of human emotions. System's deeper songs did this for me, and they were by no means the only band that did so. These bands didn't explicity praise God or Jesus in their lyrics, but nonetheless they conveyed a deep emotion or conviction that I, as a Catholic, felt very strongly in my own life. In that respect I felt that these secular groups helped to deepen or sharpen my Christian faith.
Then, out of the blue, bang! Enter the Chick tracts (I mention those a lot, don't I? o_o) and Fundamentalist websites that link all rock n' roll (even Christian rock) to Satan, and in some cases, all secular non-religious music (citing 1 Corinthians 10:31 and Phillippians 4:8 as the biblical basis for such restrictions). Into this Christian bizarro-world of apocalyptic doom and biblical literalism was now thrown an anathema on one of the things I loved most in life, my music. The thing that shocked me most in learning about Fundamentalist Christianity is the harsh, Manichean dualism of it, between good and evil, God and Satan- no middle ground. Perhaps more troubling was the way so many aspects of my life, in the eyes of these people, seemed to land on the Devil's side of things, including my academic beliefs, my religion, and now my music. To be totally honest, becoming a born-again may not have sounded so strange if my choice of music had not been factored into the equation.
Today I have my doubts about whether Satan is indeed lurking inside my headphones, but nonetheless I have started looking more critically at my music and whether it is conducive or constructive to my Christian faith. At least for now I've kept away from the harsh and hard-hitting metal/industrial I so loved for venting frustration, in favor of more mellow and instrumental groups. God cannot honestly object to music without words, I figure.
I feel no pressing need to overhaul my music life at this time, but I do have some questions for you all here at CHN. Any help/advice you could offer would be hugely appreciated.
1. What criteria should I consider when choosing a band to listen to? How should I interpret Matthew 15:11, 1 Corinthians 10:31 and Phillippians 4:8 with regards to these decisions?
2. (I almost feel silly to ask, but here goes) How accurate or well-founded are Fundamentalist accusations of Satanic influence in modern music? I'm aware of cases of explicit Satanism within certain extreme genres of heavy metal, but I've never listened to any of that filth to begin with.
3. I still believe that a secular band can profess a belief or conviction that is ultimately supportive of or constructive toward Christian belief without being explicitly Christian in word. Am I accurate in this assumption?
4. Finally, given the number of bands and genres I've recommended here (I could list many more), does anyone have in mind any Christian bands or artists that I may be interested in? I figure that now's as good a time as any to break into the genre ^_^
Thanks again for all the support and advice you all have offered me. I will continue to keep you all in my prayers. God love.
Pax vobiscum,
miles
____________________
There's only one true path in life,
The road that leads to All leads to One,
There's only one true path in life,
The road that leads to our Vision.
-Serj Tankian
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cdunh
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 20th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arkansas USA |
| Posts: | 30 |
| First Name: | Cal | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist to Catholic |
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Posted: Wed May 2nd, 2007 08:53 am |
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| Thanks for your interesting ideas and questions regarding choice of music. While I sing with the Choir and enjoy the music of the Church, I enjoy various genres of music. My level of "appreciation" is based more upon an awareness of "liking". If it appeals to my senses and intellect, then I find it worthy. However, music that is intended to shock or that is profane (or vulgar or obscene or sexist or racist) I find objectionable. Karl Kohlhase is a musician who I enjoy. He has five CDs available (which may be downloaded at no cost at his website <k4communications.com>. His song: "Seeing Jesus Soon" is very appealing, as are his other compositions.
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Ali
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| Joined: | Sat Jan 6th, 2007 |
| Location: | Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 667 |
| First Name: | Ali | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | JW, finally fully Catholic |
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Posted: Wed May 2nd, 2007 10:41 am |
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U2, you've listened to them, haven't you? Some of there songs are deeply spiritual to me, as well as meditative.
Rock music has always been central to me. Sometimes harder than other time, sometime louder than other times, but it's always been rock. Oh, ok, and now a little bit of country thrown in 
I think true, honorable, right, pure, or lovely things can be found in any genre of music, no matter what the tempo. I also think vile things can be lurking there.
For me it's not so much the genre, but the words. Would I listen to a song by Guns 'N Roses titled "Had to Kill Her" with Jesus riding in my car? Probably not. But I would listen to their Civil War song. Oops, is that the filth you were talking about, lol. Just kidding. I have listened to more extreme stuff, like Black Sabbath. IMO, I think a lot of that fundy stuff about Satanic music is hooey. The Smurf cartoon (remember them) was also banned in some households because of demonic influences. {rolls eyes}
Growing up, people in my congregation were pretty strict about what kids listened to. More than once my best friend's brother had to take a hammer to a CD or tape because his parents didn't approve of certain lyrics. That's a bit extreme, IMO. My mom wasn't so much into direct supervision like that. Those families cited the scripture "bad association spoils useful habits". You were letting those bad ideas into your head, and they would ruin the good ones already there. The same scripture the JW's used to discourage people from associating with "worldly" people, aka non JW's.
Did I mention U2  I *heart* them (see my avatar of Bono). I think they fit your #3 question. Of course, I am a bit partial
 Rock on, dude
Ali
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Annie
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| Joined: | Wed Feb 14th, 2007 |
| Location: | Columbus, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 731 |
| First Name: | Annie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | nothing, Quaker, Mennonite, Presbyterian, Methodist, Anglican, Catholic |
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Posted: Wed May 2nd, 2007 10:47 am |
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| Have you tried "Snakes in the Playground" by Bride? (as in "Bride of Christ").
____________________
Annie
Ora et labora
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brian
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 893 |
| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
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Posted: Thu May 3rd, 2007 03:27 am |
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You are asking questions I have been wrestling with it on and off for 10 years. I love music. I am a musician. I am not smart (or stupid) enough to give you any hard and fast answers. I will say this. Pray about it, and seek to please God in every area of life which would include how and when and what music you listen to. I am wrestling with how much to listen to music. I want to love it as God wants me to love it, and only to enhance my love of God. At times, listening to music could be an unhealthy attachment or something to compete for our spiritual allegiance. I find that the more we rely on God and cling less to music, the better music will sound and be used appropriately. In this sense, it is not even about secular or Christian, so much as God first, everything else second.
At times, I think it is good to listen to Christian music (if one can find any one likes, for me the best is hundreds of years old) even as a sacrfiice. Because the music may be inferior, but if it has integrity to it, it is worth sacrificing pleasure for spiritual comfort.
But mostly I have rejected modern Christian music. I love all kinds of music. My problem is that i like a lot of independent type bands who's ideas can be dark or just plain worldly.
Still my thing is, that music is part of what makes us 'made in God's image.' In a sense all music glorifies God because we are using our creative capabilities in remarkable ways. Still, I find we ought be careful what we allow into our minds so intimately becasuse it can and will influence us. I have to watch out for this with movies as well, because most of what I consider good modern movies are pretty sinister.
I do think it is very possible to harm ourselves by allowing negative influence in our lives. Still, like you sometimes when listening to something dark, I think it can speak to me and remind me of universal human needs and desperations. It can help me want to cry with humanity and sort of wakes me up. Still, there is a point where it is not good for me. This will vary (i think) from person to person as to how much is good or bad.
I think the instrumental music is safe for the most part (though some exceptions). In my more confused moments I start to wonder, well what if this artist was on drugs and/or is influenced demonically and I am now taking that in....but I never let that get me down. Though a lot of artists I like took drugs, I still can not help but hear in their music the human soul made in God's image. This is why I love music. It is a language. It is a way to show what is unique to each human soul. We can hear eachothers sacred dignity in some way. For me to listen to music, Is to see some wonderful secret and to appreciate the fact that God made this all possible.
Lots of questions. I guess sometimes though it comes down to not whether it is ok or not ok or what kind of music. But what is best for our soul. Sometimes I think it is ok to listen to anything, other times I think only certain things. A lot of times though I think God wants us to do without things not because they are bad, but because they are not Him. Because they offer a substitute for satisfaction that can only be found in Him. They influence us in ways that only He should influence us.
I believe also in the idea of divine providence. Sometimes I wonder why I buy so many hundreds of CD's when some of the best music I ever hear is not the music I covet after or obsess about, but just being with friends or invited to a concert or just hearing the right thing at the right time when I am simply trying to live faithfully and observing and giving thanks for everything that does or does not come my way.
Just keep praying and I would try to definitely cut out anything that you see as truly potentially dangerous or dark. It is good to listen to some stuff that enables us to feel compassion, but nothing that makes us more prone to actual despair.
There are people who can explain this much better than me, but my final thought is that it is important that whatever we use or renounce it is important to do so to the glory of God. We have to be honest about if we are truly doing that or not, and though at times I try to avoid music, when I do listen to it I try to use it in a redeeming way. I try to be thankful for it and conscious of the beauty that reveals something mysterious about God. To me this is the secret of a lot of things in life. Being able to use all things to get closer to God and to appreciate Him more, while ridding ourselves of anything that pushes us further away. Ultimately do not be surprised that though all created things are good, that we are in a battle between the flesh the world and the devil. I do think a lot of Chrstian groups get way too extreme and scary, but the fact remains: A lot of what is in the world in the arts or in any respect is hostile to the things of God, and though it may pain us to miss them we will ultimately be rewarded for doing so. Jesus asks us to be willing to lose even our life for His sake, and in doing so He promises us we will truly have life to the fill. Where does music fit in to this? Perhaps it is something we have to die to, and then let God give back to us as He sees fit. But do not let anybody manipulate you or cause you to lose your focus. Think honestly and prayerfully and seek above all to unite yourself with God and truth as much as you can in all things, and you will find what you need to know.
Sorry if this was rambling and unfocused.
Brian
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Candlemass
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| Joined: | Tue May 1st, 2007 |
| Location: | Hudson, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 489 |
| First Name: | Mark | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, AOG, Baptist, non - denominational, Anglican, RCC for life! |
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Posted: Thu May 3rd, 2007 10:16 am |
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Saviour Machine and Wedding Party have ministered to me like no other music, I have met members in both bands, God has used them profoundly in my life!
http://www.myspace.com/saviourmachine
http://www.myspace.com/weddingpartyraven
http://www.myspace.com/weddingparty
http://www.myspace.com/idragoniidi
The woman from Wedding Party I met 9 years ago held me in her arms and sang "Lamb" to me while I trembled w/fear!
Last edited on Thu May 3rd, 2007 10:23 am by Candlemass
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"For I the blind who once could see, the bell tolls for me!"
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BodRod
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 |
| Location: | Apple Valley, California USA |
| Posts: | 840 |
| First Name: | Cliff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised an SDA, then Generic Christian, finally at home with ... |
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Posted: Thu May 3rd, 2007 10:45 am |
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I can remember when some people said that if certain music recordings (records, eight-tracks, etc.) were played backwards the listener could hear a message from the devil. The question I had was, "Who plays their music backwards?"
I think music selection is a reflection of the mood of the listener. That is why we collect stacks of CDs and have certain stations in our radio buttons. 
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Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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Candlemass
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| Joined: | Tue May 1st, 2007 |
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| First Name: | Mark | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, AOG, Baptist, non - denominational, Anglican, RCC for life! |
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Posted: Thu May 3rd, 2007 10:47 am |
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BodRod wrote: I can remember when some people said that if certain music recordings (records, eight-tracks, etc.) were played backwards the listener could hear a message from the devil. The question I had was, "Who plays their music backwards?"
I think music selection is a reflection of the mood of the listener. That is why we collect stacks of CDs and have certain stations in our radio buttons.
"Backwards People"?  Last edited on Thu May 3rd, 2007 10:48 am by Candlemass
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"For I the blind who once could see, the bell tolls for me!"
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Steven Barrett
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| Joined: | Tue Nov 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | Hadley, Absurdistan, AKA , Massachusetts USA |
| Posts: | 1454 |
| First Name: | Steven | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, Episcopal communicant, Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Thu May 3rd, 2007 12:58 pm |
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If you really want to find God in the musical details, listen to Bach.
He was THE greatest Catholic composer the Lutherans ever produced!
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James Michael Curley to a young Thomas “Tip” O’Neill -- “Son, it’s nice to be important, but it’s more important to be nice.”
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heardclarke
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| Joined: | Mon Apr 9th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 220 |
| First Name: | Lisa | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Episcopalian; confirmed RC Easter 2005 |
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Posted: Thu May 3rd, 2007 01:39 pm |
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I agree with Brian that music is an essential part of our humanity. It is a gift. Like visual art, literature, or even our sexuality, it is intended to give joy and/or express thoughts and feelings which are good.
Like the things I listed above, music can be misused and even become a kind of weapon. That is the essence of our free will. I can find either a good message or a bad one in the SAME exact song. Much depends on my attitude and the strength of my faith at a given time.
Pope Benedict is a trained musician and has written plenty about liturgical music. One thing he has said is that music that is to be spiritually uplifting cannot depend on a gratuitous manipulation of emotion. It needs to point our attention to higher things.
Personally I find pop music to be a distraction from those things I need to think about and to do. I like the new country sound, like Rascall Flatts and Tim McGraw, and I find good messages in their music about love and faith. But it's just "icing on the cake." Their music would not be suitable in the liturgy because it does not call me out of myself....and, like anything pleasant, it can take on the nature of a mild addiction.
I know you aren't primarily asking about liturgical music, but I wanted to say that while music is generally a GOOD thing, you can let it become more important than it should be. This can even happpen with "church" music if we let it become an end in itself.
I hope that helps...
Lisa
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Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est.
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miles Dei
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| Joined: | Mon Apr 30th, 2007 |
| Location: | Massachusetts USA |
| Posts: | 11 |
| First Name: | miles | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic, currently experiencing "faith moratorium" |
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Posted: Thu May 3rd, 2007 06:09 pm |
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Thanks again to everyone who replied.
U2, you've listened to them, haven't you? Some of there songs are deeply spiritual to me, as well as meditative.
Absolutely. I grew up listening to U2, my parents are their biggest fans (so they claim). I haven't listened to much of their new stuff lately, but I'll be sure to pick them up again and listen more deeply.
Still my thing is, that music is part of what makes us 'made in God's image.' In a sense all music glorifies God because we are using our creative capabilities in remarkable ways.
I myself couldn't agree more. God enables us to make music about our daily struggles and challenges, and often very admirable and noble themes, and I don't see anything wrong with that. There are apparently others who disagree, but c'est la vie.
If you really want to find God in the musical details, listen to Bach.
He was THE greatest Catholic composer the Lutherans ever produced!
I love Bach. His devotional music speaks to me so deeply, regardless of his denomination!
And I'll be looking into the bands you all recommended ASAP. The last throes of senior year have still got me running around, but I'm excited to explore what you have listed! ^_^
God love,
miles
Last edited on Thu May 3rd, 2007 06:13 pm by miles Dei
____________________
There's only one true path in life,
The road that leads to All leads to One,
There's only one true path in life,
The road that leads to our Vision.
-Serj Tankian
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