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Darlene
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Pocono Mountains, Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 868 |
| First Name: | Darlene | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Christian, trusting His love and forgiveness |
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Posted: Wed Nov 15th, 2006 08:39 pm |
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Hello Friends in Christ,
Today my journey took another turn that is a bit more serious. Let me preface by saying that I didn't expect things to be moving so fast and I need some advice and above all, prayers.
Just about an hour ago, my husband went out to get the mail and again, there was something in it for me from a Catholic friend. This time she sent me videos. I opened the box and read to my husband what was on the videos. We have always had a very honest relationship with each other and I don't want to "sneek" around or be deceitful. So, when he asked me what I received in the mail, I informed him it was from a former Evangelical who has since become Catholic.
His next response really shocked me. He said, "If you ever became Catholic, that would be grounds for a separation." I responded by saying, "I know you must be kidding." You must understand, we have never even mentioned divorse or separation in our many years of marriage, NOT EVER. Then he responded again and said, "No, I'm not kidding." I said, "You know that the only reason Jesus gave as a justification for divorse is unchastity." He said, "I would have to consider you an apostate of the faith." Then he went on to say how I know too much to be deceived into Catholicism. "You can't honestly believe in the Pope. And what about praying to Mary as a mediator? And you know that Catholics believe in transubstantiation and that they are actually eating the body and blood of the Lord." He fired these things off lickety split. And I didn't try to defend myself. Instead, I was quiet. A few moments went by and he said rather calmly with a smirk on his face, "Darlene, you're not going to go and turn Catholic on me. You know too much to do that."
This is when I began to think that I must be on the path of deception. Maybe my interest in the Catholic faith is from the Devil and he wants me to lose my soul. What better way than through a religion that has the trappings of Christianity but is far from the truth. Now I am telling you all these things because I feel so troubled by what just happened and I am in a quandary. What should I do? Afterall, I can still continue as a Protestant and love Jesus with all my heart and love my brothers and sisters. But then I thought about the Holy Eucharist.
The last thing I told my husband before I sat down to write this post, is that I am learning things about the Eucharist that I never knew before. I said to him that even the early Church Fathers believed that the Eucharist was the actual body and blood of our Lord. He responded by saying that Jesus never meant us to understand the Lord's Supper as something that is physical. It is symbolic. And then he went on to say that we eat Jesus and get strength from Him by reading His Word, not by eating some physical bread and drinking physical wine. "How could that give us strength?" he asked. "It is merely physical bread and wine and that is all. " I went on to say that Jesus said in John 6 to "Eat my body." He responded by saying that "Jesus didn't mean that physically. Afterall, Jesus said He was "the door." "Does that mean that he was an actual door? No, of course not."
Anyway, I liked it much better when I was quietly learning about the Catholic faith. I'm on rocky ground here and not sure how to proceed. As always, I appreciate all of your comments and prayers.
Love in Christ,
Darlene
____________________
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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JillD
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Visalia, California USA |
| Posts: | 961 |
| First Name: | Jill | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | heathen, EvFree, Messianic, LC-MS, Catholic 2007 |
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Posted: Wed Nov 15th, 2006 09:49 pm |
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Darlene, I wish I knew what to say that would be helpful. I will pray for you and especially for your husband. How difficult this is! You long for the Eucharist (as I am now, too) and now he is making your journey so much more painful. I am put in mind of the other strand on this forum about being warned about satanic influence during our time in RCIA. Not that your husband is evil, but there is one who does not want you or me to finish this journey. I suppose only prayer can effect a change in your husband's mind and heart.
That said, there have been awarenesses I have had along the way that kept pointing me toward the Catholic Church. One of them answers your husband's objection to the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Having been through our little foray into Messianic Judaism, I have begun to appreciate even more how God has always worked through "means," physical stuff, to accomplish His purposes. He could just wave his hands, so to speak, and it would be done, much like how he said, "Let there be light" and there was light. But even then, he used his "mouth" to accomplish that.
But think about any of the things God has done. Always there was some physical thing involved. He told Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit of a particular tree, not simply "obey me." He put a bronze snake on a pole to heal the people. He didn't simply forgive his people when they asked him to; he demanded animal sacrifice. He had Rahab hang a scarlet thread from a window to show that she and her family were to be spared. He put his laws on stone tablets. He fed people with manna and quail, not just miraculously. Jesus used mud and spit to heal a blind man. The bleeding woman touched his garment. On and on. And the ultimate "means" was Jesus himself. God could have simply forgiven us by an act of his will; but he demanded a real human life and real human blood and that of his own Son!
For the Eucharist, then, to be a symbol is, to me, not in God's character. It is Real and it does a Real thing in a physical way. Once I grasped this truth, I began to hunger for that bread. Big time. I cannot imagine going back to plain old bread and grape juice.
But, I've also learned that there are some things that people cannot and will not see, no matter how logically they're presented. It's a spiritual blindness and I'm convinced that only the Spirit can lift it. So, that is what I'll pray for you and for him. If you and I are deceived, then may God give us the grace to "wake up"! But if he is the one who will not see, then may Jesus put some of that gooey mud on his eyes and let him see!
One thing I do that's wrong when I have problems like this is that I talk too much. I've been pretty quiet to my family about what I'm doing. They know what I'm doing, but I don't bring it up. I think that's what you've been doing, also. So, I would suggest, continue with that. Keep doing what you need to do, but don't bring it up and be very calm and loving if he brings it up.
Meanwhile, we'll pray!!
____________________
"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret." Ps 139
"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
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stephanpetersgirl
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| Joined: | Wed Nov 15th, 2006 |
| Location: | Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 16 |
| First Name: | | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Converting to Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Nov 15th, 2006 10:40 pm |
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I will pray for you and for your husband.
Laurie
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hannahestar
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Posted: Wed Nov 15th, 2006 10:57 pm |
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I am in the process of converting myself. Try to slowly introduce your husband to the catholic church. My mother was a very strong baptist when she was younger, but my father and she slowly grew toward the catholic church together. I hope you succeed and make the right choice in your journey.
I will pray for you,
-Hannah
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outrightamanda
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Posted: Wed Nov 15th, 2006 11:16 pm |
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The only thing that I can think to say is that maybe you husband doesn't understand why you want to become a catholic maybe you should show him more about the catholic religion and try to hear his point of view as well I'll be praying for you. keep me posted
Amanda
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Darlene
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Pocono Mountains, Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 868 |
| First Name: | Darlene | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Christian, trusting His love and forgiveness |
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Posted: Thu Nov 16th, 2006 12:37 am |
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Thanks for your prayers and understanding
There are some things that I didn't mention in my original post that will help all of you get a better understanding of our situation.
I met my husband in a para-church ministry which STRONGLY emphasized evangilization. We lived in various cities, opening up fellowships and spreading the Gospel. We were very zealous and aggressive.
After we left the para-church ministry, we still continued with evangelization through the churches of which we were a part. My husband was very forthright when we would go street evangelizing. Both of us were emphatic that "Ye must be born again." John 3 was our key chapter in showing people their need to be born-again. We met many Catholics during our evangelization and convinced many of them to abandon their Catholic faith. So when my husband tells me that I "know too much" he is referring to all the Bible training and evangelization that I have been involved with.
He was raised in the High Episcopal Church which believed in praying to Mary, praying to the saints and transubstantiation. He now looks back on all that as one who was blind and didn't know the true Gospel. He has told me many times that he didn't know Jesus Christ in the Episcopal Church, only religious notions of Him. And he considers the Episcopal Church to be very much like the Catholic Church with a few minor exceptions.
I will continue to ask for the Holy Spirit's guidance and comfort. Again, thanks for all of your comments.
Darlene
____________________
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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BettyBoopToo
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Camas/Washougal, Washington USA |
| Posts: | 538 |
| First Name: | Betty | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Fist Baptist/Calvary Babtist/Secular Confusion/ Roman Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Nov 16th, 2006 01:36 am |
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Dear Darlene:
I'm so sorry for all the confusion & trouble you are feeling right now. Please remind yourself, You are not the first spouse that has experienced this confusion and pain, Nor will you be the last.
Just about an hour ago, my husband went out to get the mail and again, there was something in it for me from a Catholic friend. This time she sent me videos. I opened the box and read to my husband what was on the videos. We have always had a very honest relationship with each other and I don't want to "sneek" around or be deceitful. So, when he asked me what I received in the mail, I informed him it was from a former Evangelical who has since become Catholic.
I don't recomend being deceitful to anyone. My own personal feeling on it, I cannot imagine Jesus telling me to be deceitful about turning to him and doing my best to investigate what I feel the HS is leading me to do. I think at this time in your investigation you should pray silently alot. Ask the Lord to lead, Ask the HS to quiet your husbands heart, Allow Jesus to lead even when it is uncomfortable. Quietly studying on your own or visiting with others does not mean you are deceiving your husband. You may think about learning more and then talking with him. Since I just walked over to my bible and opened it to: Matt 10;37-39 "Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. and whoever does not take up his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
His next response really shocked me. He said, "If you ever became Catholic, that would be grounds for a separation." I responded by saying, "I know you must be kidding." You must understand, we have never even mentioned divorse or separation in our many years of marriage, NOT EVER. Then he responded again and said, "No, I'm not kidding." I said, "You know that the only reason Jesus gave as a justification for divorse is unchastity." He said, "I would have to consider you an apostate of the faith."
I'm sure he is angry, confused, and upset. There are all kinds of factors that play a big part in our fears that can be down right horrifying. What will out families think? What will our friends say and do? What about all the years I've rejected the RCC and taught others all the error's the the Great _____of Babylon? And another thousand qustions Forgive him for saying those things, which I'm sure you already do. Matt 10;34-36 Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one's enemies will be those of his household. Have you & your husband always been in agreement on scripture or religion in general? We never have, When I was a protestant, he fought me on that, claiming he'd never leave his Catholic faith. Now that I'm a Catholic, well, I'll just say he argues with me on that too.
Then he went on to say how I know too much to be deceived into Catholicism. "You can't honestly believe in the Pope. And what about praying to Mary as a mediator? And you know that Catholics believe in transubstantiation and that they are actually eating the body and blood of the Lord." He fired these things off lickety split. And I didn't try to defend myself. Instead, I was quiet. A few moments went by and he said rather calmly with a smirk on his face, "Darlene, you're not going to go and turn Catholic on me. You know too much to do that."
I suppose neither of you have ever wondered if you had been deceived into the Protestant faith? Maybe it would be helpful to read some Early Church Father's and some plain old christian history. When he fired all the questions at once, I think you did fine by being quiet. This seems to be a common action when one is frustrated in a conversation and especially when it's about religion.
Have you ever read any of the writing's of Martin Luther? Do you or your husband know what he had to say about the Real Presence of Jesus in the bread & wine? Here is a link: http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/little.book/web/book-6.html And here is what ML said in his Small Catechism.
The Sacrament of the Altar:
The Simple Way a Father Should Present it to His Household
Q: What is the Sacrament of the Altar?
A: It is the true body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ under bread and wine for us Christians to eat and to drink, established by Christ Himself.
This comes from Project Wittenberg web-site. I try and use translations that are not from RC sites. I've found my husband & son seem to be more reasonable about trying to understand and I thought maybe your husband would be to.
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/the_eucharist.html#eucharist-IId Did you know for the first 1,500 years of The christian church that the Real Presence was the norm. The first thousand years it was virtually unanimous. No one taught that the presence of Christ was only symbolic until Ratrammus (868) and more notable, Berengarius of Tours (1088) The church rejected the teaching of Both.
I don't mean to repeat myself, But when I read the ECF's, My eyes were opened and I could not believe that so many people had been decieved in the last 4-5 hundred years. And also Logically How could I believe that the entire christian church had gotten everything wrong for the first 1,500 years. That was when I became angry myself with all the error's I had been taught. It took awhile for me to forgive. The people that taught me these things were only passing on the unfortunate errors that they had been taught. When I stand before Jesus Christ one day I want to be able to tell him that I did my best to follow what he taught me. and the HS lead me to. "Not that I relied on Humans to teach me".
The last thing I told my husband before I sat down to write this post, is that I am learning things about the Eucharist that I never knew before. I said to him that even the early Church Fathers believed that the Eucharist was the actual body and blood of our Lord. He responded by saying that Jesus never meant us to understand the Lord's Supper as something that is physical. It is symbolic. And then he went on to say that we eat Jesus and get strength from Him by reading His Word, not by eating some physical bread and drinking physical wine. "How could that give us strength?" he asked. "It is merely physical bread and wine and that is all. " I went on to say that Jesus said in John 6 to "Eat my body." He responded by saying that "Jesus didn't mean that physically. Afterall, Jesus said He was "the door." "Does that mean that he was an actual door? No, of course not."
Where does scripture teach that we get strength from him by reading scripture? If Jesus did not want us to understand it was his real presence then why did he not go after the deciples when they left him because this was a hard teaching? He did not say "Hey! wait a minute, I was speaking symbolicly. In 1Cor 11-27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. A person should examine himself, and so eat the bread and drink the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgement on himself. If Jesus was only speaking symbolically then why would a person be eating & drinking judgement upon himself by not discerning the body & blood? [/list] Anyway, I liked it much better when I was quietly learning about the Catholic faith. I'm on rocky ground here and not sure how to proceed. As always, I appreciate all of your comments and prayers
I understand how upset & discouraged you may be right now. My heart weeps for both you and your husband. I hope I didn't give you any more confusion. Please be patient with my posts, I've only been a catholic for three years and am trying to learn how to answer people too. I know what I have learned and what I believe but I've not learned how to properly explain myself with scripture and reliable information. I thank You for allowing me to try, If anyone feels I need to be corrected on something, Please feel free. You'll not affend me, I apprieciate your correction. I'd like to learn so maybe someday I'll be better prepared.
I will continue to pray for you, please also be patient with yourself and your husband. "Love endures all things". I'd also like to share a quote from GK Chesterton. [size=3 FAMILY="DECORATIVE" PT]"He has come too near to the truth, and has forgotten that truth is a magnet, with the powers of attraction and repulsion.... The moment men cease to pull against {the Catholic Church} they feel a tug towards it. The moment they cease to shout it down they begin to listen to it with pleasure. The moment they try to be fair to it they begin to be fond of it. But when that affection has passed a certain point it begins to take on the tragic and menacing grandeur of a great love affair....When he has entered the Church, he finds that the Church is much larger inside than it is outside." [size=2 FAMILY="DECORATIVE" PT]
G. K. Chesterton
The Catholic Church and Conversion
Please don't give up
Christ loves you and want's to bring you home to the fullness of the faith.
Betty
____________________
Patience
"Whenever anything disagreeable or displeasing happens to you, remember Christ crucified and be silent."
St. John of the Cross
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Faithful
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| Joined: | Wed Nov 15th, 2006 |
| Location: | York, Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 9 |
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Posted: Thu Nov 16th, 2006 01:55 am |
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Darlene, how God has blessed you! It is by grace that you now have these feelings about the Eucharist. I’m not that much into trusting my feelings for the Bible tells us not to lean on them, but they are the beginning. The hard part comes now for you. You must be very knowledgeable in your faith if you are to defend it, and that is what you’ll have to do being married to an evangelical. I’m sure you may have had misgivings about the Catholic Church yourself. I suggest that you tell your husband that you need to check it out first and if it is all false then you should see through it. You should even include your husband in on the search. I’m sure he will have a hard time explaining away what the earliest Christians (Catholics) believed. When I searched to see how the earliest Christians worshiped it looked very Catholic to me. The Eucharist was the center of all worship. These first Christians believed in the Eucharist being the actual body and blood of our savior. The first Christians were accused of cannibalism and martyred for it. Ask your husband when was the last time he celebrated communion? When you look to the earliest Christians you see the Catholic Church! Buy a book like “Rome sweet Home” or “Crossing The Tiber” or “Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic”, these are stories of Protestants who were confronted with the truth and uprooted their lives in order to become Catholic. It’s hard to leave something that you would sacrifice your life for, even if it may be wrong. But when the truth hits you over the head, like it did with me, you adjust quickly. Darlene, don’t let this gift of yours go simply to make peace in your marriage, for the road to eternal life is full of bumps and bruises. But remember to have compassion for what your husband is going through, he may believe he is losing you to the devil. I had a long journey in embracing the Catholic Church. I questioned and questioned and over time the truth came over me like a wave. Pray for your husband to have an open mind, because if he does he will see the beautiful truth that is the Catholic Church. May the spirit be with you always.
Faithful
(Formally rulukewarm)
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Talithacumi
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| Joined: | Sat Sep 30th, 2006 |
| Location: | Eastern Ohio, USA |
| Posts: | 308 |
| First Name: | Cheri | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic - Latin Rite |
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Posted: Thu Nov 16th, 2006 03:53 am |
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Darlene wrote: ...Just about an hour ago, my husband went out to get the mail and again, there was something in it for me from a Catholic friend. This time she sent me videos. I opened the box and read to my husband what was on the videos. We have always had a very honest relationship with each other and I don't want to "sneek" around or be deceitful. So, when he asked me what I received in the mail, I informed him it was from a former Evangelical who has since become Catholic.
His next response really shocked me. He said, "If you ever became Catholic, that would be grounds for a separation..."
Darlene,
I almost cried when I read your post... so sad when only one is converting and it causes such a rift between the spouses that they threaten to leave! I was never married, but I went through something like that. I dated a Protestant man for several years and in the end our religious differences were our undoing. It was a very painful time. He ended up marrying someone else a short three months after breaking it off with me. He'd told me that he'd "waited a long time" for me (to leave my Catholic faith and "cleave" to him in his, that is... long story, but let's just say his family and church played a big part in that because at first it didn't seem like as much of an issue for him as it became later on).
Anyway, I can relate to what a sad and tragic thing that kind of separation is. Please be assured that I am praying for you both in the hope that you won't have to endure that, especially as you are a family and have a marital bond that should not be broken. I wish there was more that could be done, but your husband's free will is involved here, and no one has any control over that. Your husband just doesn't understand, and is only going by what he's been taught and influenced to believe. He is rebelling and lashing out in hurt because he feels betrayed by you. We can only hope he will make the right choices, and pray that God will help him. It's got to be tough for you right now. But keep the Faith. And never stop the search for the Truth: "Ask, and you shall receive; Seek, and ye shall find; Knock, and the door will be opened unto you." Just keep seeking Him first. He knows what you need. It's easier said than done, but trust in His mercy and love!
JMJ
- Cheri
____________________
“We do not want a Church that will move with the world; we want a Church that will move the world.”
- G.K. Chesterton
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Tracy
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Posted: Thu Nov 16th, 2006 03:40 pm |
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Hi Darlene,
Let me first say, that this is the first time I have posted in this forum. As I have read your postings over the past few weeks, I could really relate to your questions and concerns about Catholicism. I am a protestant who is on a spiritual journey for truth. I was involved with an evangelical church for 12 years, and then I left because I no longer believed it was the right place for me to worship and fellowship. I left that church about 1-1/2 years ago, and have been attending a local Nazarene church since. At the time I left the evangelical church, I had a lot of questions about the lack of unity in the Christian faith. I decided that I would make a point to learn about Catholicism and other protestant beliefs. I have learned a lot about the Catholic faith from reading information on this website and other Catholic websites. One of the reasons I was bothered by the evangelical church that I attended is that those in leadership talked as if their interpretations of the Bible and their beliefs were ,without doubt, always correct. I have come to understand that their are many interpretations of the Bible and that only the Holy Spirit can lead us into all truth. As for your current situation with your husband, I would like to say that I'm sure that in his heart, he truly wants what is best for you. Be patient with him and be greatful that he is a man who is seeking to live a life that is pleasing to God. My husband has been an unbeliever throughout our 20 years of marriage. I could probably attend any church, and it wouldn't affect him much at all. I do not have a spiritual partner to help me in my" truth" journey. It may not seem like your husband is helping you in your journey, but he is. Because if you truly believe that the Catholic church is the right place for you, you will have had to debate a lot of issues with your husband, and you will enter it without hesitation because you will be thoroughly convinced that it is the right thing for you to do. I pray that God will bless you and keep you as you seek His truth. He loves you so much!
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Darlene
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Pocono Mountains, Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 868 |
| First Name: | Darlene | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Christian, trusting His love and forgiveness |
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Posted: Thu Nov 16th, 2006 08:04 pm |
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Hello Friends,
This is just another update. My husband and I spent the day together and it went well. No mention of Catholicism or any controversial subjects on religion. We went shopping and actually enjoyed each other's company. We listened to "The Beatles" while in the car, since our daughter has their entire collection of music.
Although he seems to be more concerned when I am on the computer chatting with my friends. Last night he kept coming into the room and I think he might have been "checking up" on me. Today, he asked who I was conversing with on-line, something he didn't really used to be concerned about.
I thank each and everyone of you for your comments and hope you all realize how important this venue has become in my life at this time.
God Bless You With His Presence,
Darlene
____________________
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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SBC2RCC
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | York, South Carolina USA |
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| First Name: | Monte | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | was Southern Baptist Minister, now Roman Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Nov 16th, 2006 11:29 pm |
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Darlene, and others who have similar situations,
Point out to your husband, that sadly, the Episcopal church was founded upon a sinful desire on the part of Henry VIII to have another wife. He was NOT obedient to God or Rome, and thus removed the Anglican churches from having the true sacraments that the Catholic Church has. Thus, the Episcopal ritual is emptied of it's power.
This argument will not produce immediate results, but sow a seed for the Holy Spirit to work with.
____________________
In Christ,
Monte W
(Formerly on CHN Forum as "Pilgrim Paul"
Minima Maxima Sunt
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brian
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
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| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
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Posted: Fri Nov 17th, 2006 12:07 am |
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I will pray for you, and i will not give you advice as to what to say or not say. But i wonder if it is even possible for your husband to consider a separation. I would think that He should feel like Ephesians 5 about loving wives would apply to him. And then 1 Corinthians 15 says:
12To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. 15But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?
17Nevertheless, each one should retain the place in life that the Lord assigned to him and to which God has called him.
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so how could he allow himself to separate from you. you are still a follower of Jesus Christ, but even if you were an an believer or the Catholic church were heretical, i think scripture clearly tells him to stay with you no matter what as long as you neither leave nor cheat.
anyway, I am not suggesting you bring this up, but i wonder if Christians who threaten to separate from their spouses consider this. I truly am convinced that it is spiritual war that so many Chrsitians do not want to dialogue and open mindedly learn from others. People seem to feel so threatened by the Catholic Church in a way that is just hard to explain. But I too used to be one of those people who hated catholicism without really knowing much about it. I think it comes from the assumption that tthey keep people away from understanding the gospel. so a good way it went away for me was to see that many Catholics truly dio understand the gospel.
I pray the Holy Spirit will help you know when to speak and when to stay silent. I do think communication must be somewaht crucial to a marriage, and husbands and wives should talk about everything. But i also think that if he is that against the Catholic Church, there is not much you can say until he wants to hear more from your perspective.
Brian
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Saint Wanna Be
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Posted: Fri Nov 17th, 2006 09:07 am |
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Darlene, what an adventure you are on! Satan hates you. You are one more who longs for Jesus, for the REAL presence, and this makes the devil irate. Your husband has no idea what he is saying. He thinks he does, I used to think I did. I used to think the Catholic faith was nothing but man made rules, like the pharisees. My wife and I used to argue about what God was doing in our lives and where He wanted us. When I started looking into Catholic teaching she was in no way going to be Catholic! Now, by God's grace, the impossible behind us, she is the most fired up Catholic I know!Your husband is afraid. He is not a bad person, even though one day he will look back at his threat to divorce you and recoil in horror. At least we hope he will. Your desire for Jesus is what this is all about. It is why any of us convert. The desire to know Him more fully, the desire to go deeper with our Savior, this is what you must eventually let your husband see. Once he realizes your sincereity and devotion to this, he will have to take note. If he is as serious about his faith as he seems, he will have to take note.
Be patient, loving, and determined. As Jesus said to the little girl's parents before he raised her from the dead, "Fear is useless, what is needed is trust."
Ask Mary to hold your husband in her Immaculate heart. She will pray for him, and by God's grace, his heart will open.
Peace,
Keith
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St.W.B.
In the Eucharist We find Emmanuel
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Darlene
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Pocono Mountains, Pennsylvania USA |
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| First Name: | Darlene | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Christian, trusting His love and forgiveness |
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Posted: Fri Nov 17th, 2006 01:49 pm |
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SBC2RCC wrote: Darlene, and others who have similar situations,
Point out to your husband, that sadly, the Episcopal church was founded upon a sinful desire on the part of Henry VIII to have another wife. He was NOT obedient to God or Rome, and thus removed the Anglican churches from having the true sacraments that the Catholic Church has. Thus, the Episcopal ritual is emptied of it's power.
This argument will not produce immediate results, but sow a seed for the Holy Spirit to work with.
Dear Monte,
I did mention this to him when he fired off those accusations against the Catholic Church. I forgot about it until I read your post. He knows that about the Episcopalian Church. But in his mind, he considers the Episcopalian Church and the Catholic Church almost the same except that the Episcopalians don't honor the Pope as the head of their church.
My husband was an altar boy for many years and has told me in detail of all that he did in this capacity. He also sung in the choir till he was 12, when he lost his beautiful singing voice as an adolescent. He cleaned the church on Saturdays. He went to confession. On and on - so many similarities to Catholicism. A number of years ago, we visited his hometown (Germantown, Philadelphia) and stopped by the church he had grown up in. It looked like a Catholic Church in every respect. It had beautiful icons and art work, stained glass windows, kneelers, confessionals in the back, a huge pipe organ. And his great-aunt is a nun. So you can understand why he thinks there is virtually no difference between the two faiths. And he has proudly and gladly left the Episcopalian faith behind.
Darlene
____________________
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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Angie_Rivas1
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Posted: Sun Nov 19th, 2006 12:28 am |
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Dear Darlene,
I understand you because I lived the pain you are going through. My former husband and I separated almost a year ago because of religious disunity. We are divorced now. The experience was very painful, besides being emotional and physically devastating. There were times when I thought I was not going to make it and I was right! If I would have relied on my own strenght, I could still be in the hole, however I kept and keep my eyes on the One who freely gave His life for me, Jeus. He is always faithful.  Prayer, Darlene, You own private time with the Lord is key. He knows our hearts and needs better than ourselves. Keep asking the Lord guidance and patience. My former husband divorced me when I stopped attending his mega- nondinomenational church (I was a catholic with an infant faith- that's changing, too), based on... according to the bible I was wrong and he was right. About two months ago, I saw him and he told me that I could come back if only I would change, again the church and I only asked him if He had prayed about it. His response was all I needed to hear. He said no. I cannot tell you what is going to happen in my future, but I am in peace. I've learned to rest in Him and to put everything that is out of my control in His hands because He knows best. I will pray the Lord gives you His Light, patience, and stregth.
Love,
Angie
____________________
"Be not afraid" JPII
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twiggymoo
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Posted: Mon Nov 27th, 2006 03:38 pm |
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Darlene wrote: This is when I began to think that I must be on the path of deception. Maybe my interest in the Catholic faith is from the Devil and he wants me to lose my soul. What better way than through a religion that has the trappings of Christianity but is far from the truth. Now I am telling you all these things because I feel so troubled by what just happened and I am in a quandary. What should I do? Afterall, I can still continue as a Protestant and love Jesus with all my heart and love my brothers and sisters. But then I thought about the Holy Eucharist.
Darlene - I can identify with those thoughts after things that my wife has said to me; I have thought those very same things. Then I think about a Mass I attended and how they prayed a Novena, how we knelt while reciting The Word became flesh "...and dwelt among us...". Or I think about the Novena of the Miraculous Medal and many other prayers and realize that Protestants don't have anything like it. Their prayers are half-hazard awkwardly spoken and often repetitive with no substance. I've been thinking of this prayer alot lately:
"Come Holy Spirit fill the hearts of your faithful and enkindle in them the fire of your love. Send forth your Spirit and they shall be created - And you shall renew the face of the earth.
...O God, Who by the Light of the Holy Spirit, did instruct the hearts of Your faithful, grant that by that same Holy Spirit, we may be truly wise and ever rejoice in His consolation, through Christ our Lord, Amen!"
I've never heard a prayer like this from a Protestant. There is so much in it!
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JillD
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| Location: | Visalia, California USA |
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| First Name: | Jill | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | heathen, EvFree, Messianic, LC-MS, Catholic 2007 |
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Posted: Mon Nov 27th, 2006 05:06 pm |
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The tricks one's mind plays...
Has anyone else felt like this journey is surrealistic? Sometimes I think it's all a dream, partly I think because I'm going on my own and the rest of the family routine stays the same. It's a feeling like it's not 'grounded' anywhere or something. 'Hard to explain...
I hope someone else has felt this way, too, or I'm going to think I'm going nutty!
____________________
"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret." Ps 139
"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
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stephanpetersgirl
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Posted: Mon Nov 27th, 2006 11:07 pm |
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To Jill:
I feel EXACTLY the same way! So much is the same - especially mundane things like making dinner or driving to the store - but the underlying reality has just shifted.
Laurie
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BettyBoopToo
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| Location: | Camas/Washougal, Washington USA |
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| First Name: | Betty | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Fist Baptist/Calvary Babtist/Secular Confusion/ Roman Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Nov 27th, 2006 11:17 pm |
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JillD wrote: The tricks one's mind plays...
Has anyone else felt like this journey is surrealistic? Sometimes I think it's all a dream, partly I think because I'm going on my own and the rest of the family routine stays the same. It's a feeling like it's not 'grounded' anywhere or something. 'Hard to explain...
I hope someone else has felt this way, too, or I'm going to think I'm going nutty!
Jill:
Your not going nutty. Ever since my conversion began I've felt like other's and especially my husband & son, don't have a clue as to what is going on inside me.
I go to mass and some day's I feel the Reading's or Father's homily were written precisely for me. (I'm positive other's feel the same way) My husband & son can be their and they have no idea what I'm talking about and feel absolutely nothing, or atleast they say they did not.
I feel most of the time, Very misunderstood by family & friends. I'm just in a different place in my life. Things that seem so clear to me are just not for other's? Some of the churches teachings can be such simple truth to me now, But 7 years ago I would of said something like "Truth is relative" or "It is debateable and depends on who your talking to".
I've just come to realize that it may be the Lords way to stop me from relying on others instead of him.
God Bless
Betty
____________________
Patience
"Whenever anything disagreeable or displeasing happens to you, remember Christ crucified and be silent."
St. John of the Cross
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Tue Nov 28th, 2006 12:00 am |
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Things that seem so clear to me are just not for others?
Remember, Betty, a few days ago when we were discussing spiritual blindness? Here you are seeing that blindness in action. What you and others who speak in this way are experiencing is the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit.
David
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twiggymoo
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| First Name: | Twiggymoo | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Nazarene, Free Methodist, Baptist..Romeward bound |
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Posted: Thu Nov 30th, 2006 05:05 pm |
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Saint Wanna Be wrote: ...My wife and I used to argue about what God was doing in our lives and where He wanted us. When I started looking into Catholic teaching she was in no way going to be Catholic! Now, by God's grace, the impossible behind us, she is the most fired up Catholic I know!
Reading that, I was encouraged for my wife says she will never go Catholic and that I am guilty of spiritual adultery. (I had pictures of Mary and the saints in my truck). If she ever sees my Rosary - it's all over
We've been in fundamentalist churches now for 30 years. She was raised Catholic but "never heard of Jesus or the Holy Spirit"!
Regards,
Don
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BettyBoopToo
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| Location: | Camas/Washougal, Washington USA |
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| First Name: | Betty | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Fist Baptist/Calvary Babtist/Secular Confusion/ Roman Catholic |
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Posted: Sat Dec 2nd, 2006 03:59 am |
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David W. Emery wrote: [size=Things that seem so clear to me are just not for others?
Remember, Betty, a few days ago when we were discussing spiritual blindness? Here you are seeing that blindness in action. What you and others who speak in this way are experiencing is the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit.
David]
Yes, I do remember that David. Thank You for clarifying it for me. Until now I did not really think I understood exactly how to explain it.
I guess I just get frustrated, It's so difficult to get others to except the Holy Spirit or to come to the sacraments to enjoy what I consider to be the best (High) so to speak, In this world.
Sometimes I feel maybe some people want to keep the Lord at arms length and are afraid to open up to him. If they do, then I think they're afraid of the changes and convictions they may experence.
I guess all I'm able to do is Pray for them. There are some things I cannot help them with, Even though I guess I want to try.
Thank You
Betty
____________________
Patience
"Whenever anything disagreeable or displeasing happens to you, remember Christ crucified and be silent."
St. John of the Cross
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Darlene
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
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| Posts: | 868 |
| First Name: | Darlene | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Christian, trusting His love and forgiveness |
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Posted: Sat Dec 2nd, 2006 05:25 pm |
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twiggymoo wrote: Saint Wanna Be wrote: ...My wife and I used to argue about what God was doing in our lives and where He wanted us. When I started looking into Catholic teaching she was in no way going to be Catholic! Now, by God's grace, the impossible behind us, she is the most fired up Catholic I know!
Reading that, I was encouraged for my wife says she will never go Catholic and that I am guilty of spiritual adultery. (I had pictures of Mary and the saints in my truck). If she ever sees my Rosary - it's all over
We've been in fundamentalist churches now for 30 years. She was raised Catholic but "never heard of Jesus or the Holy Spirit"!
Regards,
Don
Dear Don,
I understand completely how you feel. I just had to chuckle a bit when you said, "If she ever sees my rosary - it's all over." That is exactly what happened just a few weeks ago with me. My husband's first reaction was, of course, incredulous. That was when my rosary from "Rosary Army" arrived in the mail. I don't think he knows about the one that I bought several weeks ago. Oddly enough, recently he made a big mess in the kitchen by spilling turkey gravy all over the floor. Later on, he said, I need that rosary of yours so that I can do penance and pray some "Hail Mary's." But it was all said in jest.
I also can relate to the fundamentalist mindset. It is a hard shell to crack. For every Catholic doctrine, they have a well-formed defense. Of course well-formed does not mean accurate. But in their minds, they truly believe they have the "goods" on all doctrinal teachings. They are sola scriptura folks to the max.
I think the best way to have an influence on your wife is to live the Christain faith. Only then will her heart be open to what you believe in.
Love in Christ,
Darlene
____________________
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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CajunRick
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Posted: Sat Dec 2nd, 2006 06:44 pm |
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Darlene wrote: Oddly enough, recently he made a big mess in the kitchen by spilling turkey gravy all over the floor. Later on, he said, I need that rosary of yours so that I can do penance and pray some "Hail Mary's." But it was all said in jest.
I think that's actually a good thing! When you can joke about something, at least you have some positive feelings toward it. Every thought is not hateful. When you think about it, when you say something in jest it's not the most foreign thing in your mind. And joking about it means he's thinknig about it. So let's take it as a positive sign that his mind is open enough to believe at least in the possibility that using a rosary won't condemn you to hell!
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lia
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Posted: Mon Dec 11th, 2006 10:45 pm |
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Darlene,
First of all, my prayers are with you and your husband.
You are on a journey...with God's grace, you'll eventually get there. There is nothing to fear...okey, it is frightening, but you can give your fear to God. And ask Him to be your strength in this undertaking of yours. Notice I didn't say that "you ask for strength". "...Cast your burdens upon me...My burden is light...Come to me and I'll give you rest...".
Can you challenge your husband to study about the ORIGIN of the bible? Coz if he is so against the Catholic, why would he standby a book (the bible) that the Catholic Church compiled? Coz it would mean he trust the judgement of the Catholic Church to choose what will comprise the bible. The bible didn't drop down from the sky and God said, "Okey, here's the bible. Use it to spread the Word." 
If your husband loves Jesus and adheres to the bible, why would he contradict Jesus words and the bible?
From the beginning God instituted the sacrament of marriage...."What God has put together, let no man put asunder."'
"Those who re-marry after they've divorced is the same as commiting adultery." (If your husband divorces you...does he intent to remain single?)
Jesus repudiated divorce by saying that the only reason why Moses made the law of divorce is because Israel is hardheaded and stubborn (well, something to that effect ) God's law is above Moses' law, don't you think? That's why there's no divorce for Catholics.
Lastly, do you think you could break your husband's fences by becoming more loving? Like more "thank yous", "I love yous", more smiles of appreciation, massaging a tired shoulder (even if you're very tired yourself)...stuffs like that. To let him see that becoming Catholic is making you a better person, wife and bestfriend to him (and mother too, if you have kids).
God bless!
Lia
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Man can't b forced 2 accept the truth.He can b drawn toward the truth only by his own nature, that is, by his own freedom w/c commits him 2 search sincerely 4 truth & when he finds it, 2 adhere 2 it both in his conviction & his behavior.-- JP2
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