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JillD
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Visalia, California USA |
| Posts: | 961 |
| First Name: | Jill | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | heathen, EvFree, Messianic, LC-MS, Catholic 2007 |
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Posted: Wed Nov 21st, 2007 08:24 pm |
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I don't remember the letter that got this started; something anti-Catholic, I'm sure. Then there were a couple of letters supportive of the Church. Then today, one in reply to those and it's full of misinformation, but I'm hoping you all will help me with the FACTS. Here are some of the assertions found in the letter on our local paper's opinion page:
- It has been known for hundreds of years that the CC is extremely greedy and corrupt.
- The Vatican is a country within a country and it is so rich it runs its own government. Anyone would think that it could pay off those people who were hurt by all those priests, but of course the church is not about to. Instead it is now discarding those of true faith and dedications and having them fend for themselves while most of the offending priests who were allowed to play musical chairs with innocent lives are doing quite well.
- The CC will fall; this is just the beginning.
She gives no support for Point #1, so I suppose that one's moot. And point #3 is denied by Jesus Himself in Matthew 16. But what about #2?
I'd sure like to know what made this writer so bitter.... And I'm rarin' to write a letter in response!
Jill
____________________
"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret." Ps 139
"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
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DrDave
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | Mildura, Australia |
| Posts: | 278 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Cradle - Lapsed - Renewed Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Nov 21st, 2007 08:39 pm |
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JillD wrote: The Vatican is a country within a country and it is so rich it runs its own government.
This is just ridiculous. The Vatican is a country. Yes. All countries have governments. That is the nature of countries. At the height of the famine that spawned "Band Aid" "USA for Africa" and the "Live Aid" concerts, the country of Ethiopia was "so rich it ran its own government"
Regards Dave
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NB: 'DrDave' is a nickname from college not and indication of academic achievement.
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BodRod
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| Location: | Apple Valley, California USA |
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Posted: Wed Nov 21st, 2007 09:05 pm |
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JillD wrote:
- It has been known for hundreds of years that the CC is extremely greedy and corrupt.
- The Vatican is a country within a country and it is so rich it runs its own government. Anyone would think that it could pay off those people who were hurt by all those priests, but of course the church is not about to. Instead it is now discarding those of true faith and dedications and having them fend for themselves while most of the offending priests who were allowed to play musical chairs with innocent lives are doing quite well.
- The CC will fall; this is just the beginning.
I would ask for some evidence or examples to support their opinions. For example, who knows that the RCC is greedy and corrupt and how do they know? Also, how is the RCC different from any other church or business in the matter of finances? When is the RCC going to fall and how is it going to come about? Is there a prophet "out there" that we should know about and where can this information be found?
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Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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CajunRick
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Posted: Thu Nov 22nd, 2007 12:09 am |
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JillD wrote:
- It has been known for hundreds of years that the CC is extremely greedy and corrupt.
Prove it.
The Catholic Church gives more to the poor than any other organization on earth. Disprove it.
* The Vatican is a country within a country and it is so rich it runs its own government. Anyone would think that it could pay off those people who were hurt by all those priests, but of course the church is not about to. Instead it is now discarding those of true faith and dedications and having them fend for themselves while most of the offending priests who were allowed to play musical chairs with innocent lives are doing quite well.
The Vatican is indeed a country, a sovreign nation. The pope is the only freely elected absolute monarch in the world. The riches owned by the Vatican are absolutely priceless. No doubt the treasures of the Vatican, if sold, would raise billions. And then what?
If the Catholic Church sold the Pieta, no one would ever see it again. If the treasures of the Vatican museum were sold, people could no longer see the priceless treasures of antiquity for a nominal charge (just enough to cover expenses). If the Church did not maintain a library of documents two thousand years old, the treasures of our history would be lost. If the Catholic Church had not spent years and millions of dollars digitizing ancient manuscripts, those documents would not be freely available to all today on the Internet. If the writings of people like St. Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, and Martin Luther had not been preserved and digitized by the Church, they would not be available to all today on the Internet.
If the Catholic Church had not preserved it, hand-copied by generations of monks, no one would even know of the existence of Sacred Scripture. The Catholic Church, thanks to its "riches" has preserved the history of western civilization as we know it. Anyone can walk into the Sistine Chapel and see the artistry of Michelangelo. What other organization has dedicated so much time and money to preserving the great artistic accomplishments of people like Leonardo DaVinci? What other organization has inspired the great musical works of people like Bach, Beethoven, and Handel?
Would all of this be sold? Are we to mortgage our past to pay for the sins of our present? Had we done that a thousand years ago, we would have none of these treasures today.
Of course, dioceses all over the United States are paying hundreds of millions of dollars to the victims of abuse (the total is well into the billions). The average award is hundreds of thousands of dollars. No doubt most of the money is going to attorneys, but it is coming out of the Church's pockets nonetheless. Nuns in California were notified this week that they will have to vacate their convent by December 31st so the Archdiocese of Los Angeles can sell it to help raise money for the abuse victims. The Archdiocese of Los Angeles alone will pay more than half a billion dollars to abuse victims.
As for the priests who were "allowed to play musical chairs with innocent lives" and are now "doing quite well", I have a feeling a priest from our diocese serving a life term in the Louisiana State Penitentiary at Angola would disagree. Priests who abused children have been prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, often much more severely than scout leaders, athletic coaches, teachers, parents, Protestant ministers, Jewish rabbis, and others guilty of the exact same offenses. And they deserve it … but the others do, too. Why aren't they being treated equally? Why aren't Protestant pastors who have moved from church to church for decades abusing children being forced to pay multi-million dollar judgments?
* The CC will fall; this is just the beginning.
"And the gates of Hades will not prevail against it." I certainly hope the Catholic Church never falls. I would hate to think our Savior was a liar.
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JillD
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Visalia, California USA |
| Posts: | 961 |
| First Name: | Jill | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | heathen, EvFree, Messianic, LC-MS, Catholic 2007 |
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Posted: Thu Nov 22nd, 2007 12:45 am |
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Rick,
May I quote you extensively? I'll even be glad to sign your name to the letter. You said what needed to be said, and you said it perfectly. I learned a lot from what you laid out here.
Jill
____________________
"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret." Ps 139
"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
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CajunRick
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Posted: Thu Nov 22nd, 2007 01:33 am |
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JillD wrote:May I quote you extensively? I'll even be glad to sign your name to the letter.
Feel free to use whatever you like, but if you're going to give credit, give it to the Forum. Include the URL ( http://www.chnetwork.org/forums ), and maybe someone who wants to learn the truth about the Catholic faith might find their way here.
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HermitpatOCDS
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| Joined: | Wed Nov 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | Denison, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 50 |
| First Name: | Patricia | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Born: Presbyterian / became Disciples of Christ in 1986 / ... |
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Posted: Thu Nov 22nd, 2007 02:13 am |
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Rick,
That was an awesome reply! I can see I made the right decision to join this forum. This is the very thing I have been looking for. Thank you and God bless.
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"Ecce ancilla Domini fiat mihi secundum verbum tuum." Luke 1:38
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DavidVS
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| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Presbyterian - On the Journey to Rome |
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Posted: Mon Nov 26th, 2007 10:41 pm |
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Greedy? Any city of any size has a local Catholic Charities office. I don't know of any other church that gives even a tiny fraction of what the Catholic Church gives to help the poor.
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HermitpatOCDS
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Posted: Mon Nov 26th, 2007 11:50 pm |
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Greedy? Any city of any size has a local Catholic Charities office. I don't know of any other church that gives even a tiny fraction of what the Catholic Church gives to help the poor.
I was present in the office at my former parish when a couple came in asking for assistance. They were traveling across the country headed to Nevada for a new job and they were nearly out of fuel for their car. All they were asking for was a tank of gas to get to the next stop.
They had stopped at a Protestant church a couple of blocks away and were told, "I'm sorry, we can't help you. But if you go down the street to the Catholic Church they help everyone." I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't heard it with my own ears.
The church secretary told me later that it wasn't an isolated incident. She gets people in the office on a weekly basis who are turned away from the largest Protestant church in town who sends them to the Catholic Church. Talk about feeling naive! Hang around a parish office long enough and you will get quite an education.
BTW, the parish keeps an account with one of the gas stations closest to the main highway in town. They send people there with a gas card good for a tank of gas.
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"Ecce ancilla Domini fiat mihi secundum verbum tuum." Luke 1:38
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CajunRick
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Posted: Tue Nov 27th, 2007 02:23 am |
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HermitpatOCDS wrote: I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't heard it with my own ears.
I heard several times from RCIA participants that in their former churches they heard the word preached, but in the Catholic church they saw it lived.
AT a shelter in my town, a victim of Hurricane Katrina (an African-American Baptist) told us that when the Protestants came to visit, they preached and they prayed. When the Catholics came, she felt loved.
Something tells me this is the way Jesus would want it.
"Preach the gospel at all times. When necessary, use words." -- St. Francis
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JillD
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Visalia, California USA |
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| First Name: | Jill | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | heathen, EvFree, Messianic, LC-MS, Catholic 2007 |
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Posted: Tue Nov 27th, 2007 04:35 pm |
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Rick,
I sent in the letter a few days ago and this morning the paper called to confirm that I had indeed sent it. It should show up shortly. I hereby give you credit for 98% of what I wrote, but it was just too well-stated to mess with. When it runs, I'll post the link so you can see how it came out.
Bravo!
Jill
____________________
"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret." Ps 139
"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
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EMarshallBuckles
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 19th, 2007 |
| Location: | Rockville (Near Richmond), Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 675 |
| First Name: | Marshall | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Christian Church,Episcopal Church,Baptist denomination,learning about RCC |
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Posted: Tue Nov 27th, 2007 05:46 pm |
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I admire and respect you for sending in that letter of reply. Thank you for doing that and HOORAY FOR YOU!!!
Please know that although currently a member of a Protestant denomination (I regard myself as being an "outside respecter and admirer of the Roman Catholic Church" instead of being "Protestant") I do NOT agree with the woman who wrote the letter to which you are responding. Also, please be aware that the atheist groups have become much more militant in recent years. Many of the anti-Christianity letters you see in your newspaper are from members of these (minority) atheist groups who are writing in using "talking points" supplied to them by their leaders. Same thing happens with the prohomosexual groups, various political and environmental groups among others. They are organized and, sigh, they write letters many of them supplied by their leaders (sign this and send it in to your local editor today)!
May God bless you for responding to that woman's letter!! Again, thank you for doing that!!
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CajunRick
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Posted: Tue Nov 27th, 2007 11:54 pm |
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JillD wrote: I hereby give you credit for 98% of what I wrote, but it was just too well-stated to mess with.
As I said, if you're going to give credit, give it to the forum. I'll be looking forward to seeing how they handle it, and the replies it generates!
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Prayerie Pal
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| Joined: | Sat Mar 24th, 2007 |
| Location: | Omaha, Nebraska USA |
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| First Name: | susie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Presbyterian,Methodist, Charismatic Catholic, Pentecostal, Evangelical, and now Truly Catholic |
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Posted: Thu Dec 6th, 2007 08:04 am |
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Hi Jill and everybody. It's been a LONG time since I've been here. Great thread going! Rick, you're prodigious! Jill, drop a note and let me know how you're doing. I ask prayers for our community that suffered such a shock yesterday with the Mall shooting. The names of the victims at this time have not been released. Our pastor at RCIA last night led us in prayer and once again, I saw how our priests go the extra mile ALL the time. Fr. Shane had had 4 funerals this past week, and prayed such a loving prayer last night. Goes along with what you said above, Rick.
I hope to be back to the Wed. Chat nights, but am sponsoring a young woman at RCIA, so do keep us in your prayers. Thanks to all!
susie
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God gave us memory so we could have roses in winter.
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Darlene
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Pocono Mountains, Pennsylvania USA |
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Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2007 10:59 am |
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Hello Folks,
While I agree that the Catholic Church is known for helping the poor, I can testify to the fact that Protestant churches, many in my area, help the poor as well. I think it is wrong to juxtapose one against the other, and then come to the conclusion that Roman Catholics are far better at living their faith while the majority of Protestants merely profess to. This is giving a wrong impression.
Case in point. A few months ago, several Protestant churches sponsored an event open to the public, where all of the food was free. A number of years ago our family supported a young child in a poor third world country. The organization was Christian Children's Fund. There is also Samaritan's Purse, which is a Protestant organization that helps the poor. I have had friends who did long term missionary work on a ship with a Protestant organization called Youth With a Mission. This large ship goes around to various countries in need, providing health care with doctors and nurses who give of their precious time. Then there are the local Rescue Missions in most of the cities I have lived in, which are also run by Protestant churches. And then there are the Salvation Armies, which are in just about every major town in the USA. My husband was involved with a ministry called Crossroads, that literally opened its doors to the drug addicts on the streets, to help them get off drugs. Then there is Teen Challenge which has been more successful in helping people get off drugs than any other organization. I could mention others, but I think you get my point.
I think it's important to address this issue with an open mind.
Darlene
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The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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Darlene
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Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2007 11:06 am |
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I forgot to mention the pro-life organizations in my area and across the nation, which are Protestant, that offer free clothing, baby food, and baby furniture to women in need. I was so surprised to learn about the generosity of a pro-life organization in my area that helps needy women (not just those thinking of having abortions, but poor women with small children), with food, clothing, and furniture. I thought that they were only concerned about preventing women from having abortions, but their ministry is also to poor families as well.
Darlene
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The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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Credo Catholic
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Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2007 12:44 pm |
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Hi Darlene! Your point is well taken. There are many good protestant groups of charity, and it isn't right for catholics or protestants to think they have more generous hearts than the other.
I think Jill was responding to accusations toward catholics that weren't true and that needed defending. It isn't that catholics are more giving, but are sometimes maliciously and erroneously criticized, and in the case of a letter to the editor, needed correcting, in print.
We all need to be charitable in practice and in spirit. God bless
BTW, it's good to hear from you! 
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CajunRick
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Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2007 03:40 pm |
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Darlene wrote: While I agree that the Catholic Church is known for helping the poor, I can testify to the fact that Protestant churches, many in my area, help the poor as well.
I completely agree. And it certainly was not my intention to intimate that they do not. Many Protestant churches do wonderful work with the poor and homeless, and make a tremendous effort in third-world countries. And many Catholic parishes fall far short of the mark.
The comment I made about those joining the Church who say that they heard the word preached in their Protestant churches but see it lived in the Catholic Church primarily referred to those from fundamentalist and evangelical backrounds who were members of small, independent, usually non-denominational churches. As one told me, "doing good works" to them meant making more just like them, and the only reason to provide food or clothing or shelter was to get the opportunity to preach to them. I admit they are the minority, and probably the reason they had chased so many away.
If we had any doubt before, we learned in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina that Christian love is truly not limited by denomination, but there are many who call themselves "Christian" who do not understand Jesus' message at all. And that's not limited by denomination, either.
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JillD
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Visalia, California USA |
| Posts: | 961 |
| First Name: | Jill | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | heathen, EvFree, Messianic, LC-MS, Catholic 2007 |
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Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2007 07:04 pm |
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The letter still hasn't run and, at this point, I'm wondering if it will.
Bummer!
____________________
"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret." Ps 139
"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
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Prayerie Pal
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| Joined: | Sat Mar 24th, 2007 |
| Location: | Omaha, Nebraska USA |
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| First Name: | susie | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Presbyterian,Methodist, Charismatic Catholic, Pentecostal, Evangelical, and now Truly Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2007 09:17 pm |
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HI JILL! 
I'm waiting for Dobrodoc and Prodigal Daugbter to debut on The Journey Home. I know what you mean about letters. I wrote one to the Omaha World Herald and The Catholic Voice. Two different topics, but now it's ...w...a...i...t...i..n..g that's the hard part.
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God gave us memory so we could have roses in winter.
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CajunRick
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Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2007 10:25 pm |
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JillD wrote: The letter still hasn't run and, at this point, I'm wondering if it will.
Bummer!
Call them and ask them. Ask why they print an anti-Catholic letter, but they won't print a response.
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JillD
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Posted: Wed Dec 19th, 2007 02:26 pm |
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Finally! The letter appeared!!!
Here's the URL, but do read it ASAP. I don't know how long they keep Letters to the Editor on the website.
http://www.visaliatimesdelta.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071219/OPINION03/712190307
Thank you, Rick. And I'll be sure to send along any rebuttals.
A week or so ago, another pro-Catholic letter appeared. I figured they'd received several and printed that one. I guess not...
Good stuff! I'd forgotten all the good stuff you wrote, Rick, and I LIFTED!! I'm giving credit where credit is due.
Jill
____________________
"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret." Ps 139
"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
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Credo Catholic
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Posted: Wed Dec 19th, 2007 02:37 pm |
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| Hurray! It is sublime to read about the good things the church has done instead of the usual false criticism. Thanks Jill!
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StephenC
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Posted: Wed Dec 19th, 2007 03:07 pm |
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We need a thumbs up emoticon! Anywho..... Jill, I offer my humble thank you for defending our Holy faith in such a public way....
God Bless!
Last edited on Wed Dec 19th, 2007 03:07 pm by StephenC
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JillD
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| First Name: | Jill | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | heathen, EvFree, Messianic, LC-MS, Catholic 2007 |
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Posted: Wed Dec 19th, 2007 03:14 pm |
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StephenC wrote: We need a thumbs up emoticon! Anywho..... Jill, I offer my humble thank you for defending our Holy faith in such a public way....
God Bless!
Rick..... Jump in here and take a bow! Truly, he wrote the bulk of the letter. I guess I made it public, though... 
This is going to be interesting, too, because we've lived in this town a long time, most of it as evangelicals. I used to write a lot of letters to the paper, primarily about pro-life issues. Well, people will know what Church I attend now!
Jill
____________________
"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret." Ps 139
"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
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