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BodRod
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Posted: Wed Dec 26th, 2007 11:54 am |
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While watching the Rorate Mass on EWTN, I saw the Deacon and Sub-deacon bow, hold their bowed position and then move their upper bodies in an arc movement covering about a quarter circle. What is the meaning of this movement?
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Dave Armstrong
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Posted: Wed Dec 26th, 2007 03:48 pm |
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A sore lower back?
Naw; just kidding . . . 
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CajunRick
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Posted: Wed Dec 26th, 2007 04:15 pm |
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BodRod wrote:
While watching the Rorate Mass on EWTN, I saw the Deacon and Sub-deacon bow, hold their bowed position and then move their upper bodies in an arc movement covering about a quarter circle. What is the meaning of this movement?
I remember the motion but I don't remember the reason. You can find the rubrics and text of the 1962 mass here. Usually the motions have a direct connection to the words being spoken at the time but you'll have to understand Latin to make the connection.
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Tina in Ashburn
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Posted: Wed Dec 26th, 2007 05:22 pm |
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BodRod wrote: While watching the Rorate Mass on EWTN, I saw the Deacon and Sub-deacon bow, hold their bowed position and then move their upper bodies in an arc movement covering about a quarter circle. What is the meaning of this movement?
I assume you saw this motion during the Confiteor, then it is this:
During the confiteor, said at the beginning of Mass and also just before communion, the altar boys bow while they say it. When they get to the words "et tibi pater" [and to you father] and "et te pater" [and you father] they point their heads, or lean, towards the priest, then "swivel" back bowing before the altar. When they kneel upright, they are finished saying the prayer.
The Confiteor, the "i confess to almighty God" is said four times in the Old Mass, might be only twice in the '62 Mass. Said by the priest and then the altar boys at the foot of the altar at the beginning of Mass, then again by the priest and then the altar boys just before communion. This old Mass is hard-wired with more penitential emphasis in prayer and gestures.
"Confiteor Deo omnipotenti, beatae Mariae semper Virgini, beato Michaeli Archangelo, beato Joanni Baptistae, sanctis Apostolis Petro et Paulo, omnibus Sanctis, et tibi pater [bows towards the priest], quia peccavi nimis cogitatione verbo, et opere: (strikes his breast three times) mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Ideo precor beatam Mariam semper Virginem, beatum Michaelem Archangelum, beatum Joannem Baptistam, sanctos Apostolos Petrum et Paulum, omnes Sanctos, et te pater [bows towards the priest], orare pro me ad Dominum Deum nostrum."
"I confess to Almighty God, to Blessed Mary ever Virgin, to Blessed Michael the Archangel, to Blessed John the Baptist, to the Holy Apostles Peter and Paul, to all the angels and Saints, and to you father: that I have sinned exceedingly in thought, word and deed: through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault. Therefore I beseech the Blessed Mary ever Virgin, Blessed Michael the Archangel, Blessed John the Baptist, the Holy Apostles Peter and Paul, all the Saints, and you, Father, to pray for me to the Lord our God. "
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Tina
Arlington Diocese
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BodRod
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Posted: Wed Dec 26th, 2007 08:21 pm |
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Thanks for the info everybody. Now that you mention it Tina, while they were in that position, they did "strike" their chests 3 times.
I have played with the idea of getting the Rosetta Stone lesson kit for learning Latin, but then I thought that it might be like learning Morse Code. Deciphering the code was a lot different reading it than hearing it and my guess is that learning Latin is similar.
Last edited on Wed Dec 26th, 2007 10:21 pm by BodRod
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CajunRick
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Posted: Wed Dec 26th, 2007 09:15 pm |
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BodRod wrote: I have played with the idea of getting the Rosetta Stone lesson kit for learning Latin, but then I thought that it might be like learning Morse Code. Decihering the code was a lot different reading it than hearing it and my guess is that learning Latin is similar.
Actually, since Latin is the root language of most western European languages, it's easier than you think. You are already familiar with many Latin terms through your exposure to English (which also borrows a lot from German), Spanish, French, Italian, and others.
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BodRod
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Posted: Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 06:45 pm |
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| Right, Rick. My books came yesterday (Ecclesiastical Latin and Concecrated Phrases) and I see what you mean.
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Tina in Ashburn
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Posted: Wed Jan 23rd, 2008 07:22 pm |
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Cliff, are you going to start posting in Latin? "threadus Latinus"?
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Arlington Diocese
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Kayla
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Posted: Thu Jan 24th, 2008 01:14 pm |
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The nice thing about having taken spanish for a couple of years is that I can read/hear latin and usually have a pretty good idea of what is being said. Not necessarily in tenses or anything to that sort, but I can figure it out.
Hopefully next year I will be taking latin (or greek).
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BodRod
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Posted: Thu Jan 24th, 2008 02:52 pm |
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Tina, how about:
Mortem tua annuntiamus, Domine, et tuam resurrectionem confitemur. donec venias.
OK ... so I cheated!!! 
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Tina in Ashburn
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Posted: Thu Jan 24th, 2008 05:39 pm |
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Cliff, yes you did. Can you sing it for me?
The only phrase I can remember from my latin classes is "veni, vidi, vici" which I probably didn't even spell right. or is that 'wrighte'. [dang spellcheck.]
Have you seen the online translators? ... put in a phrase and get the translation.
Here's an example: enter "anyone can learn latin" and displayed is "anyoneway ancay earnlay atinlay ".
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Tina
Arlington Diocese
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CajunRick
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Posted: Thu Jan 24th, 2008 06:40 pm |
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Tina in Ashburn wrote: The only phrase I can remember from my latin classes is "veni, vidi, vici" which I probably didn't even spell right.
Yep, you got it right. I remember that much! Of course, we could argue for the rest of eternity on the pronunciation!! (Veni, Vidi, Vici or Weni, Widi, Wici)
I need to listen more closely to our Holy Father and see if he uses the classical or the Germanic pronunciation. I have a feeling he's in the classical camp.
Cliff, you are our temporary Latin scholar, but only until Kayla gets her studies underway.
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BodRod
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Posted: Thu Jan 24th, 2008 10:49 pm |
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OK, here is the first scholarly saying to figure out:
Veni, vidi, napi.
It is related somewhat to my being 39 years old.
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CajunRick
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Posted: Thu Jan 24th, 2008 10:59 pm |
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BodRod wrote: Veni, vidi, napi.
I came, I saw, I realized I was wearing an adult diaper made in Britain?
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BodRod
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Posted: Thu Jan 24th, 2008 11:48 pm |
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| ROTFL but nope!!!
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RodBod
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Posted: Sun Feb 10th, 2008 11:00 am |
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The translation is: I came, I saw, I took a nap.
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