 |
| Author | Post |
|---|
Kayla
Member
| Joined: | Mon Jul 30th, 2007 |
| Location: | Emmitsburg, Maryland USA |
| Posts: | 369 |
| First Name: | Kayla | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Atheist, kind-of Mormon, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Dec 29th, 2007 11:06 pm |
|
I'm not sure what exactly to do in this situation. I'm going to be having a few people over for New Years Eve for a little get together. Just a couple friends. They want to bring some drinks over and what have you. My parents are okay with this (in fact more than okay...).
Is there anything wrong with social drinking? Not drinking to get drunk or anything to the like. In my own home, with parental permission and supervision?
I don't know. Part of me thinks it's not a good idea, I've never thought very highly of underage drinking. But part of me also recognizes the only thing really wrong with underage drinking (besides the fact that many teens take it waaaaay too far), is that it's against the law. But a social drink at your own home isn't, is it?
Yeah. Dunno.
____________________
I believe, Lord, help my unbelief.
Jesus, I trust in You!
There's not a lot of job security for us after death. I suppose that's one advantage of being a philosopher. - Peter Kreeft
http://kayla23mount.blogspot.com/
|
|
|
CajunRick
Guest
| Joined: | |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | |
| First Name: | | | Gender: | | | Faith History: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat Dec 29th, 2007 11:46 pm |
|
Kayla wrote: Part of me thinks it's not a good idea, I've never thought very highly of underage drinking. But part of me also recognizes the only thing really wrong with underage drinking (besides the fact that many teens take it waaaaay too far), is that it's against the law. But a social drink at your own home isn't, is it?
I think the big problem with underage drinking is that most 18-21 year old kids are not mature enough to know that when they drink, they can't drive, use drugs, or have sex. Their judgment is likely to become impaired in direct proportion to the amount of alcohol they drink.
In Louisiana, it is not legal to purchase alcohol until age 21, but it is legal to drink at 18, and it is legal to drink at home at any age with parental consent. Of course, the laws may be different where you live.
Peronally, I don't see anything wrong with alcoholic beverages for those 18-21 years old, and even a little younger under limited, tightly controlled circumstances. (Yes, I expect others to disagree.) It also affects my opinion that I never had a problem and never came home drunk, and neither did my daughter. Also, 18-year olds have the right to own a home and join the military. As long as they're not driving and in an environment where they can't make bad choices, alcohol should not be a problem.
Jesus' first recorded public miracle was to change water into wine at a wedding feast. The steward was so convinced everyone was drunk that he wondered why they had saved the best wine for last. Typically it would have been served first when people could appreciate it.
Of course, I do not condone drunkenness, binge drinking, alcoholism, etc. But I also think if the first time teens have the opportunity to drink too much is in a controlled environment, perhaps we would have fewer problems with teen drinking. Especially if there was a videocamera recording their stupid behavior.
|
|
|
DrDave
Member
| Joined: | Mon Nov 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | Mildura, Australia |
| Posts: | 278 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Cradle - Lapsed - Renewed Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Dec 30th, 2007 03:50 am |
|
Kayla wrote: I'm not sure what exactly to do in this situation. I'm going to be having a few people over for New Years Eve for a little get together. Just a couple friends. They want to bring some drinks over and what have you. My parents are okay with this (in fact more than okay...).
Is there anything wrong with social drinking? Not drinking to get drunk or anything to the like. In my own home, with parental permission and supervision?
The thing I see as paramount in this scenario is that it is you who will be the host. If things were to get out of hand, fingers would wind up being pointed at you. In a certain sense you are the "parental supervision" in this scenario, and as such it is up to you to give or not give the "parental permission".
Accordingly I would strongly advise that YOU not drink, so that as host you will at least act responsibly even if others do not. Much like the scenario where a group of friends go out with one as a "designated driver", all the others place their trust in that person to get them home safely. In the scenario you raise a similar "duty of care" would fall upon you.
Of course the easy way to avoid this "lions share" of responsibility is to advise your friends that you would prefer that they not drink upon the premises that you are responsible for, but that choice is ultimately up to you.
And have a Happy New Year
Regards Dave
____________________
NB: 'DrDave' is a nickname from college not and indication of academic achievement.
|
|
|
Bill Kirscher
Member
| Joined: | Fri Dec 28th, 2007 |
| Location: | Denver, Colorado USA |
| Posts: | 11 |
| First Name: | Bill | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Revert to Catholicism (dabled in Lutheran, Methodist, Baptist, Evangelical, Messianic ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Dec 30th, 2007 12:09 pm |
|
I hope this doesn't sound too pious but remember, we are subject to authority - both church and civil. We are to obey civil authority provided it does not go against biblical or Church teachings. My advice is to comply with your local laws regarding underage drinking in the home and, as always, use your God given good judgment.
Happy New Year!!!
|
|
|
rbo4u2
Member
| Joined: | Tue Jan 16th, 2007 |
| Location: | Sunnyvale, California USA |
| Posts: | 518 |
| First Name: | Rich | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Formerly Christian & Missionary Alliance then became Presbyterian |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Dec 30th, 2007 12:36 pm |
|
I have to agree with Bill. The laws are there for a purpose and as we are subject to scripture which tells us to obey the laws of the land, unless the law violates the scriptures, then we need to obey. Practically speaking, here in the San Francisco Bay area, each year we've had good kids die in auto accidents after having been to a "controlled" party. Here in California, if you host a party and even one of your guests embibes too much and then goes out and has an accident and kills themself or someone else, guess who finds the local police on their doorstep? Yep, the host is held accountable.
So be careful, and be wise. You'll never make a mistake by not serving alcohol. You may make a mistake by serving alcohol. Plus, if you are underage, I suspect your parents could get in trouble as well.
Whether drinking is right or wrong is not the issue. The issues are both how liable are you if a problem develops and most importantly, how does your action harmonize with revealed scripture in regards to civil law?
Just my 2 cents.
Rich
|
|
|
Intercessor
Member
| Joined: | Tue Sep 25th, 2007 |
| Location: | Southcentral, Kentucky USA |
| Posts: | 1446 |
| First Name: | Becky | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Southern Baptist, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Dec 30th, 2007 05:24 pm |
|
With regard to comments made here on obeying the law of the land/being subject to civil authority---
Should a Catholic avoid exceeding all speed limits?
I've been told that it's OK to exceed a speed limit as long as one is not driving recklessly, not endangering himself or anyone else, and is willing to pay the ticket cheerfully if ticketed.
How subject to civil authority should a devout Catholic be?
Maybe this should be a new topic. Please post replies in the new thread.Last edited on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 05:30 pm by Intercessor
____________________
Consider it all joy, my brothers, when you encounter various trials. . .the testing of your faith produces perseverance. Blessed is the man who perseveres in temptation, for when he has been proved he will receive the crown of life. . . NAB James 1:2-4,12
|
|
|
Carolyn
Member
| Joined: | Mon Apr 30th, 2007 |
| Location: | Torrington, Connecticut USA |
| Posts: | 117 |
| First Name: | Carolyn | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Im a married catholic, with four children Devoted to Mary ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Dec 30th, 2007 05:30 pm |
|
| My son is having a Newyears Eve get to hether here at our home,I have asked him to tell his friends NO ALcohol here please,, it is too much of a reponsibilty for us, if someone gets into a accident , we are responsible, I think they should learn to have fun without it. We allow our son to have a beer or two at home with his Dad, but taking responsibility for all his friends limits and such is too much to handle,
|
|
|
Kayla
Member
| Joined: | Mon Jul 30th, 2007 |
| Location: | Emmitsburg, Maryland USA |
| Posts: | 369 |
| First Name: | Kayla | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Atheist, kind-of Mormon, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Dec 30th, 2007 05:44 pm |
|
Yes, some of these objections are ones that I've thought about... (And perhaps it's just my mind trying to rationalize things out), but there will only be two friends coming over and both will be staying the night. My parents made that a condition of having them over, including that if there was going to be alcohol, that my parents would be taking keys.
I do not think that any of the three of us plan on drinking excessively. I, for one, have absolutely no intention of getting drunk (ever!). Nor do either of my friends (or at least to my knowledge).
I suppose my biggest concern, then, is the legality of such actions... which, I believe it is legal for minors to have alcohol at their homes, if supervised by parents.
____________________
I believe, Lord, help my unbelief.
Jesus, I trust in You!
There's not a lot of job security for us after death. I suppose that's one advantage of being a philosopher. - Peter Kreeft
http://kayla23mount.blogspot.com/
|
|
|
DrDave
Member
| Joined: | Mon Nov 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | Mildura, Australia |
| Posts: | 278 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Cradle - Lapsed - Renewed Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Dec 30th, 2007 06:57 pm |
|
For some reason I was thinking that you were still on campus - doh!
Given the further circumstances you've outlined I say - have a good time (Just not too much of a good time )
Regards Dave
____________________
NB: 'DrDave' is a nickname from college not and indication of academic achievement.
|
|
|
CajunRick
Guest
| Joined: | |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | |
| First Name: | | | Gender: | | | Faith History: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Dec 30th, 2007 07:00 pm |
|
DrDave wrote: For some reason I was thinking that you were still on campus - doh!
And my advice was based on the assumption she would be at home (she mentioned parental supervision) and that no one would be driving.
|
|
|
rbo4u2
Member
| Joined: | Tue Jan 16th, 2007 |
| Location: | Sunnyvale, California USA |
| Posts: | 518 |
| First Name: | Rich | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Formerly Christian & Missionary Alliance then became Presbyterian |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun Dec 30th, 2007 11:55 pm |
|
I tend to agree with Rick. However, a couple of things interest me from some of the posts. Becky said "How subject to civil authority should a devout Catholic be?"
I don't want to be a smart...donkey... (insert whatever phrase you wish)
but isn't that kinda like saying how close can I get to a venial sin or even a mortal sin without crossing the line? Why do so many in our day want to play on the edges? How close to sin can I get without smelling it? Sounds like the motivation is a bit skewed. Either we are serious about our faith or we want to play awhile because the allure of sin or disobedience is more attractive.
I think Becky's question is good if the idea is where does civil disobedience become necessary if the law is not just and God's will dictates otherwise? That's a more pertinent question to me. And even if we disobey the civil law because it is unjust, I think scripture is clear enough to indicate we still may have to pay an unpleasant price. But our conscience will be clear.
Becky's question is a good one if it is addressing this issue.
How does that apply to the drinking question? I'm not sure it does, except in an indirect way.
IMHO.
Rich
|
|
|
Intercessor
Member
| Joined: | Tue Sep 25th, 2007 |
| Location: | Southcentral, Kentucky USA |
| Posts: | 1446 |
| First Name: | Becky | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Southern Baptist, Catholic |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Dec 31st, 2007 12:30 am |
|
rbo4u2 wrote:
Becky said "How subject to civil authority should a devout Catholic be?"
I don't want to be a smart...donkey... (insert whatever phrase you wish)
but isn't that kinda like saying how close can I get to a venial sin or even a mortal sin without crossing the line? Why do so many in our day want to play on the edges? How close to sin can I get without smelling it? Sounds like the motivation is a bit skewed. Either we are serious about our faith or we want to play awhile because the allure of sin or disobedience is more attractive.
Hey, Rich, play nice.
You and Bill had responded to Kayla's situation by referring to the need to obey local civil laws. My intent was to probe positions on the issue by introducing another sort of civil law – speed limits. I know very few persons who consistently stay below or right on the speed limits and thought we might get some interesting discussion. I was curious about how many Forum participants were among those who never exceed speed limits except in emergency situations. As soon as I wrote my post, however, I decided it should become another thread. In the new thread we went on to discuss a bit of moral theology.
I am serious enough about my faith and about avoiding sin to risk being laughed at when asking questions like, "Would it be appropriate to include mild speeding during a confession?"
I asked that question knowing that the requirement is confession of mortal, not venial sin, since I can't imagine leaving a confession without having confessed everything in my life that could possibly have been a sin of any kind. I have no desire to get close to sin and no desire to have unconfessed sin in my life.
____________________
Consider it all joy, my brothers, when you encounter various trials. . .the testing of your faith produces perseverance. Blessed is the man who perseveres in temptation, for when he has been proved he will receive the crown of life. . . NAB James 1:2-4,12
|
|
|
CajunRick
Guest
| Joined: | |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | |
| First Name: | | | Gender: | | | Faith History: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Dec 31st, 2007 02:39 am |
|
Intercessor wrote: "Would it be appropriate to include mild speeding during a confession?"
My answer is yes, if it is habitual, deliberate and inconsiderate. Going five miles an hour on the Interstate is considerably different than going five miles an hour over the speed limit in a subdivision or a school zone.
And yes, if one breaks the law one must be prepared to pay the consequences.
|
|
|
Michael Ewing
Member
| Joined: | Mon Dec 24th, 2007 |
| Location: | Iowa USA |
| Posts: | 59 |
| First Name: | Mike | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic, spiritually left the Church during late teens, dabbled ... |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Dec 31st, 2007 04:37 am |
|
Kayla,
First off, as a newcomer, I'm impressed and humbled that you would think to come to your peers and ask our input. To me, that speaks volumes to your obvious maturity. Way to go.
Regarding this situation, use your best judgment, one thing that I think about is how the Holy Spirit interacts with my conscience. I have come to trust that if I feel like something might be wrong or a poor judgment call on my part, chances are that it is. I don't pretend to be in special standing with the Holy Spirit, I am just aware that the Holy Spirit interacts with me through my conscience (as well as other ways), and assume that this might be the case for others.
The first thing that came to my mind was the subject of liability. The others have done a fantastic job relating those concerns so I won't spend much time there.
I will further advise, however, that people, especially inexperienced drinkers (regardless of age) die all the time from blood alcohol poisoning. I would assume that you and your folks would assume liability in the eyes of the law if something as unfortunate as this were to occur.
There was a time early on in my experiences with alcohol that I was unaware of how alcohol would react with my body. Hahaha. Wasn't funny at the time, but I can laugh now. Additionally, I have found that I react differently depending on the TYPE of alcohol just as much as with the amount of alcohol I imbibe. One serving of beer is not the same as one serving of tequila, for example. Take that into consideration.
The last thing I would throw out, and this is the least of my concerns, but I tend to shy away from drinking these days, especially in public, because as a Catholic, I am under enough scrutiny from my ulta-pious evangelical protestant friends. Naturally, we need only be concerned with how we are judged by God, but bear in mind that we certainly catch some flack from time to time because of our "looser" standing on subjects like drinking and gambling.
Now that I have killed any chance of you having a good time at your party, have fun! Hahaha.
Be safe, and have a very Happy New Year,
Mike Ewing
____________________
"Jesus said to him : I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" - John 14:6
"Let us not grow tired of doing good, for in due time we shall reap our harvest, if we do not give up" - Gal 6:9
|
|
|
rbo4u2
Member
| Joined: | Tue Jan 16th, 2007 |
| Location: | Sunnyvale, California USA |
| Posts: | 518 |
| First Name: | Rich | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Formerly Christian & Missionary Alliance then became Presbyterian |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Mon Dec 31st, 2007 12:30 pm |
|
Aww Becky...no intentions to here to be a flame flower. My only take is far too often we don't get serious about sin. And even when we break the law for the right purposes, we must be willing to pay the price.
The speeding issue is only different in the sense that most driving is to be done sensibly. If traffic is moving on the average of 80 then I wouldn't drive that fast but would stay with the flow as to not present a danger. Yes...it's still speeding, and if caught, I must pay the penalty. 5 or 10 miles above the speed limit is not too noticeable at freeway speeds, but it is definitely noticeable in a 35 mile an hour zone. Just be ready to pay the consequences. Our laws are pretty specific. (I was in Italy and discovered speed limits and stop lights were mere suggestions.) I'll be off the computer for a week while I visit relatives in San Diego. See ya'll.
God bless. And I try to stay nice. 
Rich
|
|
|
Current time is 12:17 am | |
|
|
|
|
|
