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Kayla
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| Joined: | Mon Jul 30th, 2007 |
| Location: | Emmitsburg, Maryland USA |
| Posts: | 369 |
| First Name: | Kayla | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Atheist, kind-of Mormon, Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Dec 31st, 2007 05:22 am |
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And so they will be spiritual, not because they shall cease to be bodies, but because they shall subsist by the quickening spirit.
For as those bodies of ours, that have a living soul, though not as yet a quickening spirit, are called soul-informed bodies, and yet are not souls but bodies, so also those bodies are called spiritual,—yet God forbid we should therefore suppose them to be spirits and not bodies,—which, being quickened by the Spirit, have the substance, but not the unwieldiness and corruption of flesh.
Okay, I just want to make sure that I'm getting the gist of St. Augustine correctly. I think I understand what he's saying, but his syntax is confusing me. Basically, spiritual bodies (glorified bodies) subsist by the quickening spirt and are not susceptable to the unwieldiness and corruption of flesh.
I hope there are some english experts here.
The antecedent of the bolded part is "those bodies are called spiritual", correct?
What I'm confused about is the "so also those bodies are called spiritual" part. What is the antecedent of "those bodies"? It would seem to me that the antecedent is "those bodies of ours" or the further defined "soul-informed bodies". But if that is so, St. Augustine is then seeming to equate spiritual bodies with our own, corruptable bodies? That doesn't make sense to me.
Unless more emphasis needs to be placed on the "being quickened by the spirit"? The verb. In other words, the process of being quickened by the spirit makes our bodies spiritual bodies and hence "not susceptable to the unwieldness and corruption of flesh"?
Or am I completely missing the mark here? I feel as though I'm just not comprehending the syntax that Augustine is using, and becoming lost at that. The very first sentence gives us the main point and teaching quite clearly. So, I'm pretty sure I understand the idea being taught. But I want to be sure.
Did I completely confuse people in trying to ask this question?
____________________
I believe, Lord, help my unbelief.
Jesus, I trust in You!
There's not a lot of job security for us after death. I suppose that's one advantage of being a philosopher. - Peter Kreeft
http://kayla23mount.blogspot.com/
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David W. Emery
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Brownsville, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 2427 |
| First Name: | David | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Dec 31st, 2007 12:48 pm |
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St. Augustine is making the point here, Kayla, that a living soul will naturally inform the body (“in-form,” that is, cause the body to be alive through its spiritual principle and power). But if the Spirit of God dwells in the soul — thus in-forming it — then the soul is raised to the supernatural level, and this will be reflected in its influence — in-forming — on the body. Therefore, the body, which was naturally a fleshly or natural entity, living on the natural level, becomes a supernatural entity along with the soul, living by the Holy Spirit. He is using St. Paul’s terminology when he speaks of the “natural body” and the “spiritual body” (see 1 Corinthians 15).
Yes, the antecedent of the bolded part of your citation is correctly identified. The antecedent of “those bodies are called spiritual” is “they” in the first paragraph, indicating a further antecedent which does not appear in your citation. It would be the body raised to the supernatural level. His point is that, without ceasing to be a body, the body which is in-formed by the Holy Spirit is brought to a state in which it appears more spiritual than material, what St. Thomas Aquinas and theologians generally call “agile.”
Agility refers to the qualities exhibited by Christ’s body after his resurrection, when he was able to pass through locked doors, appear and disappear, alter his appearance or disguise his identity, be transported instantly from place to place, manifest wounds that do not compromise the body’s integrity, etc. (St. Thomas also refers to some other qualities of glorified bodies, such as clarity and subtlety, but these need not concern us here. We are interested primarily in the fact of change, not its specific extent or qualities.)
Now that wasn’t so difficult, was it?
David
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Kayla
Member
| Joined: | Mon Jul 30th, 2007 |
| Location: | Emmitsburg, Maryland USA |
| Posts: | 369 |
| First Name: | Kayla | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Atheist, kind-of Mormon, Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Dec 31st, 2007 04:23 pm |
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Whew. 
Thanks David. The definition of "soul-informed" really helps with understanding. And the clarification of all those antecedents! 
____________________
I believe, Lord, help my unbelief.
Jesus, I trust in You!
There's not a lot of job security for us after death. I suppose that's one advantage of being a philosopher. - Peter Kreeft
http://kayla23mount.blogspot.com/
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