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Darlene
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Pocono Mountains, Pennsylvania USA |
| Posts: | 868 |
| First Name: | Darlene | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Christian, trusting His love and forgiveness |
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Posted: Fri Feb 15th, 2008 11:42 pm |
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Hello Brothers and Sisters in Christ,
I expect to be attending a Vespers Service at an Eastern Orthodox Church this Saturday evening, Lord willing. I am unfamiliar with orthodox culture and would like some pointers. Some of you on this forum are knowledgeable with EO worship either because you have been or are EO. Here are some questions I have.
1. In what ways is the Vespers service similar to the Roman Catholic Mass?
2. Does the congregation stand for most of the service?
3. Should I wear a head covering?
4. As a first time visitor, how should I behave overall?
If my questions haven't covered all the bases, please feel free to give me any additional advice. This will be the first time I will have entered an orthodox church, so I'm not quite sure what to expect. If anyone can fill in the gaps I would greatly appreciate it.
God Bless You All,
Darlene
____________________
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. II Corinthians 13:14
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CajunRick
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Posted: Sat Feb 16th, 2008 01:31 am |
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Darlene wrote: 1. In what ways is the Vespers service similar to the Roman Catholic Mass?
I am by no means an expert, but this much I do know. Vespers is evening prayer. It is similar to Vespers in a Catholic Church, but nothing like a mass. The eastern equivalent of our mass is called "Divine Liturgy". You will be attending a prayer vigil, not a Eucharistic liturgy.
2. Does the congregation stand for most of the service?
Eastern Christians do not typically kneel. They will sit and stand. I don't know how much of each is done, but I suspect you will be sitting more than standing.
3. Should I wear a head covering?
You might want to be prepared, perhaps by wearing a shawl or mantilla you could place over your head. That's what I would do if I were you. See what others are doing, and follow suit.
4. As a first time visitor, how should I behave overall?
Be respectful. If you are attending with someone else, ask them to guide you. If not, ask the person you will be sitting next to if they can guide you. Don't expect them to give you a play-by-play commentary, but they can help you find page numbers, know when to sit and stand, etc. Be gracious and thankful.
You might also want to remember that Eastern Christians make the Sign of the Cross in reverse of the way we Latins do. They touch their forehead, chest, right shoulder, and left shoulder, following the hand of the priest who is blessing them. Also, they will frequently make the sign of the cross in sets of three (for Father, Son, and Spirit) holding the first two fingers and thumb together, with the last two fingers tucked under, and they make the gesture very quickly. Hopefullyl they will recognize that you are doing your best to honor their practices.
Of course, you should remember that the Orthodox do not permit Catholics to receive Eucharist, but that will not be an issue at Vespers since Eucharist is not distributed.
My experience in Eastern churches is very limited. I have attended a wedding (called a "crowning") in an Orthodox cathedral and Divine Liturgy in an Eastern Catholic church, so I am by no means an expert. However, since no answer had been posted after several hours, I wanted to pass on what little I know. Hopefully one of our current or former Eastern Christian members will be able to provide more specific information.
Last edited on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 01:49 am by
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Prodigal Son
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| Joined: | Fri Feb 1st, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 26 |
| First Name: | Prodigal | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Methodist, Anglican, Orthodox |
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Posted: Sat Feb 16th, 2008 05:30 am |
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Darlene wrote:
Hello Brothers and Sisters in Christ,
I expect to be attending a Vespers Service at an Eastern Orthodox Church this Saturday evening, Lord willing. I am unfamiliar with orthodox culture and would like some pointers. Some of you on this forum are knowledgeable with EO worship either because you have been or are EO. Here are some questions I have.
1. In what ways is the Vespers service similar to the Roman Catholic Mass?
2. Does the congregation stand for most of the service?
3. Should I wear a head covering?
4. As a first time visitor, how should I behave overall?
If my questions haven't covered all the bases, please feel free to give me any additional advice. This will be the first time I will have entered an orthodox church, so I'm not quite sure what to expect. If anyone can fill in the gaps I would greatly appreciate it.
God Bless You All,
Darlene
Dear Darlene,
1. Vespers is part of the Daily Office of the Church. It will be different from your experience of the Roman Mass. The Service alternates between priest, deacon (if there is one) reader, and singers (choir and/or chanters). The congregation does not typically say or sing anything, but prays silently. Sometimes there is something called "Artoklasia" at Vespers, which literally means "breaking of (leavened) bread." If there is bread and wine blessed at Vespers, it is *not* the Eucharist. It is simply bread and wine specially blessed as part of a supplicatory service to strengthen the congregation spiritually and physically.
2. Traditionally Orthodox stand for all of Vespers, except for the three Old Testament Readings when they are appointed. However, because many Orthodox parishes have adopted western pews, sitting has become more frequent. From an Orthodox point of view Vespers is not a long Service (30-45 minutes, very occasionally an hour.) It is not unusual for some present not to sit at all. If you want to sit, observe what others are doing and imitate them.
3. In Orthodox countries it is still customary for women to cover their heads in church. In Russia, it's just about universal. But in America, this is no longer the case. If the church is Russian (not OCA, however) there will probably be women covering their heads, anywhere from from just a few to every woman there. If the the parish is a "convert" parish of just about any Jurisdiction, there may also be some women covering their heads. But it is not uncommon to go into an Orthodox parish in America and find no woman with a head covering. If you want to wear a head covering because you just want to or because you see other women doing it, I recommend a scarf or bandana. If you wear a mantilla or chapel cap, you will indeed be "fulfilling the law," but you'll probably stick out as a "foreigner".
4. You can't go wrong just doing what you see other people doing in an Orthodox church. As a Roman Catholic, you may be unsure about making the Sign of the Cross in the Eastern manner. If you are uncomfortable, Cross yourself as you are used to. No one will be upset that you are Roman Catholic as long as you are respectful in your behavior in Church.
You don't ask about this, but I'd recommend that you do wear a skirt or dress to the service. Many Orthodox get highly offended when they see women wearing slacks (no matter how dressy) in church. You may be going to a parish where this isn't an issue, but you'll never get in trouble wearing a (modest) dress or skirt.
Fr. David
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brian
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Chicago South Burbs, Illinois USA |
| Posts: | 893 |
| First Name: | brian | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | methodist, evangelical, anglican, catholic |
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Posted: Sat Feb 16th, 2008 06:51 am |
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Greetings Darlene. Good to hear from you.
The Orthodox and EC Vespers I have been to the congregation does actually sing along with the cantors. I have only been to Antiochian and OCA Vespers services. The Greek Orthodox I visited only for Divine Liturgy and there was less congregational singing and much more in Greek.
But it can be difficult to follow along, if you see someone maybe ask to help you with the page numbers. Basically decide to participate or just watch as much as you want to. Hopefully they will be happy just that you came. Maybe just watch and read along or just watch. It takes a while to get used to. But I do recommend going more than once and eventually going to a Divine Liturgy which will be a more liturgically inspiring experience.
(For anyone Catholic reading this, It does not fulfill ones Sunday obligation to go to an Orthodox Church, so they would need to have gone to mass earlier or later or perhaps an Eastern Catholic parish)
Vespers is more sort of a preparing oneself for the Liturgy, at least as I have seen it.
Eventually if you keep visiting an Orthodox Church you might want to become familiar with making the sign of the cross. It is a good way to be involved and strengthens your devotion to the Trinity as they do this mostly when the Trinity is mentioned. Eventually you may want to learn about kissing the icons. If you do this you should make the sign of the cross before (though there are different customs and practices out there), and avoid kissing the image directly on the face. Maybe a hand or corner of the icon. If this makes you uncomfortable (though remember we are not worshipping the image) then feel free not to. Basically, just try to enjoy it and try to join the congregation in prayer as much as you can.
It may not be too heavily attended though. Where I live maybe a handful of people a night come out. The most I have ever seen at a Vespers is maybe like 10 people, but the parishes are much smaller. Maybe it is different at Greek Orthodox Churches.
Do expect a lot of standing though as a guest maybe you could sit more if you are uncomfortable. Let us know how it goes for you. Here is an article that might help you entitled "12 things I wish I had known" regarding ones first visit to an Orthodox Church. http://www.antiochian.org/theology/first_visit.htm
BrianLast edited on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 06:52 am by brian
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raising3saints
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| Joined: | Thu Feb 14th, 2008 |
| Location: | West Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 17 |
| First Name: | Sieglinde | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Moravian, Methodist, Presbyterian, Roman Catholic, Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic |
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Posted: Sat Feb 16th, 2008 12:18 pm |
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I'd second Fr. David's advice about the scarf or bandana as opposed to a mantilla or chapel cap for a head covering. And the 'no pants' advice as well. Please let us know about your experience afterwards!
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