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gacibula
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| Joined: | Mon Mar 10th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 7 |
| First Name: | George | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Mar 10th, 2008 07:06 am |
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Hello, and good evening to all.
My name is George, and I am 20 years old, closing in on 21. I am a pharmacy student, close to obtaining my degree. I am currently dating the love of my life, who is also the same age as me, and will also be optaining her pharmacy degree soon as well.
I was born and raised catholic. How devout I was actually raised could be up to dispute... but I went through CCD, and catholic schooling, etc. etc.
I am now dating a southern baptist girls, whose beliefs are as strong as her head. She is not willing whatsoever to work with me in this relationship every time the talk of catholic vs. baptist is brought up. She personally doesn't have a problem with me being catholic... it is moreso the children thing. We have been dating for almost 2 years, and she doesn't want to continue on with something that can and will not work. Rather... quit while we're ahead.
All of the time I am subject to catholic questions and drill downs from all of her baptist friends about how I'm stupid for believing in marriage, purgatory, confessing sins to a priest, the eucharist, vain repetition etc. etc.
I am a very organized and well mannered person... and I always have a plan, a fix, or a solution where ever I am. However... in this situation, I call upon the faithful readers of the CHNI forums.
People... I need your help, because I see my relationship with the woman I love and plan to propose to coming to a halt in the near future over what seems to be a disagreement over the SAME religion.
The fact that our religions which believe in the same god and savior... is about to break us apart makes me angered (which im sure man of you would understand).
I am the only one in this relationship trying to make this work out for the best, and have been trying desperately to come up with solutions. The only thing she has to say is that catholics are corrupt, and that the catholic church changed from when it began and that is why baptist is the "correct" way... and that they are the right religion. It does concern me however that I am coming up with many of these solutions on my own... and the only solution she has to offer is a break up.
Once again, I love this person, and I would sadden me deeply for us to end like this.
I am sorry if this post is in the wrong forum section... I am also sorry If I have come to the wrong place for advice. If you would be so kind as to not bash me... and point me in the right direction, I would be more than grateful.
God Bless,
George
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DrDave
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | Mildura, Australia |
| Posts: | 278 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Cradle - Lapsed - Renewed Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Mar 10th, 2008 07:16 am |
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George, I would strongly recommend visiting John Martinoni's site http://www.biblechristiansociety.com and have a listen to "Apologetics for the Scriptually Challenged" (available free as mp3 download or on cd or cassette). Have a good listen to that talk, and see if it doesn't give you any ideas on at least how to frame the discussions you are having with your girlfriend and her friends.
Regards Doc
____________________
NB: 'DrDave' is a nickname from college not and indication of academic achievement.
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gacibula
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| Joined: | Mon Mar 10th, 2008 |
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| First Name: | George | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Mar 10th, 2008 07:26 am |
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I will most certainly look there to try and "solve" that part of my dillema, however... I am moreso concerned about our relationship (minus the friends if you know what I mean) However... I am sure that what has to be said by Mr. Martinoni will also help me out whenever my girlfriend and I discuss this as well.
I am trying desperately to find a solution, and every time we talk it turns into a debate, or a "that's soooo dumb!"
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BillK
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| Joined: | Sun Jan 6th, 2008 |
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| Posts: | 40 |
| First Name: | Bill | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Revert to Catholicism (dabled in Lutheran, Methodist, Baptist, Evangelical, Messianic ... |
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Posted: Mon Mar 10th, 2008 08:14 am |
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George,
I will pray for you and the difficult situation you are in. I am a recent "revert" to the Catholic faith and my wife has the same misconceptions about Catholicism as your girlfriend. Our faith was not a big part of our lives when we married so it wasn't an issue but as we've grown in our faith, the differences become more apparent. It is an immense struggle right now that is nearly tearing our marriage apart. I strongly urge you to work through these differences before taking the next step.
I don't know the details of your situation but my experience has been that "theological discussions" usually end in fights. The only thing keeping my wife and I together right now is praying together. I had always prayed privately before so this was very difficult for me (I even prayed for God's help in praying with my wife!!!). Prayer is something you both have in common. I suggest first establishing a prayer life together and then tackling some of the issues that are more divisive issues.
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Ali
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| Joined: | Sat Jan 6th, 2007 |
| Location: | Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 667 |
| First Name: | Ali | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | JW, finally fully Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Mar 10th, 2008 11:39 am |
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I'll tell you what really opened my eyes, it was that fill-in-the-bubble test that you have to take before the priest will marry you. It some official sounding title, which I cannot remember because you sort of glaze over thinking about taking a 100 question test in the first place, let alone remembering what it is called! LOL
Anway, Dh and I had already been married 13 years. But when I came into the Church in December we still had to go through all the steps, and taking that #$&$ test was one of them.
The questions were very straightforward. If dh and I had taken it 14 years ago before we go married to begin with, and I was 100% honest with myself, we probably would not have gotten married. We were that far apart in our expectations and personal beliefs. Some of those years we made it a bit harder on ourselves than it really had to be.
Even today there were still a few of our answers that didn't match up and the priest had to go over them with us and discuss to make sure we were all ok and on the same page with everything today. We are  But, damn, it was hard for a few years. KWIM?
From your post, it sounds like you already know. You just need to follow through.
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gacibula
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| Joined: | Mon Mar 10th, 2008 |
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| First Name: | George | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Mar 10th, 2008 02:18 pm |
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Thanks all for the helpful remarks thus far!
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BodRod
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 |
| Location: | Apple Valley, California USA |
| Posts: | 840 |
| First Name: | Cliff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised an SDA, then Generic Christian, finally at home with ... |
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Posted: Mon Mar 10th, 2008 02:33 pm |
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gacibula wrote: .....She is not willing whatsoever to work with me in this relationship every time the talk of catholic vs. baptist is brought up. ..... ..... and she doesn't want to continue on with something that can and will not work. Rather, quit while we're ahead.
It seems to me George, that she has already answered your question and suggested a solution. I know it is painful sometimes to face reality however, it may be easier in the long run and move toward a more speedy recovery from the pain, to face the pain early rather than wait and face the pain later, when you have more emotion invested in the situation.
BTW, why were you dating (wife hunting) non-Catholics in the first place?
Last edited on Mon Mar 10th, 2008 04:54 pm by BodRod
____________________
Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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sewnsew
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 913 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Mon Mar 10th, 2008 04:17 pm |
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I know why he is dating non Catholics- in our society especially since we are supposed to be open and non biased that is one of those personal questions that doesn't come up until you are in over your head sometimes- I have talked to my kids since they were young about not getting involved with a non believer and now a non Catholic- my 15 yo is "group dating" a boy who has loose allegiances if any to the baptist church. I have talked to her about being very clear that her faith is an issue with her .... i have to be tactful in how I say this because I am married to at best an agnostic. I thank God every day though that we hammered out the "church thing" his words not mine- before we got serious- in all the years he has stood by his agreement with me against his Southern baptist family that the children would be raised in MY church, MY faith and that he would attend with us. Over the years I will be honest sometimes it has only been the "letter" of the agreement and he has stood on his word because we agreed rather than any true beliefs about it.
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Esther
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Bronx, New York USA |
| Posts: | 157 |
| First Name: | Esther | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Southern Baptist to Roman Catholic 11/26/06 |
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Posted: Mon Mar 10th, 2008 04:21 pm |
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I remember from youth group our pastor terming situations like this "missionary dating". It rarely works. Bottom line IMHO if you were to marry outside of your faith your house would be divided. It would cause more problems then a person could even realize when they are single. And if she is that firmly planted in her faith, I doubt she would be willing to concent to raising her children in the Church, which I doubt there is a priest that would marry you if that was the case. I know it is rough, but speaking from experience (I really love a man who isn't Catholic, but realized in the long run we were not walking the same path at all) you probably should think about ending it now for both of your sakes.
Just remember my friend, God will not be out done in generosity. God will provide the woman he intended for you if you allow him, and don't try to force his will.
I will be praying for you. I know how painful this is.
Esther
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EMarshallBuckles
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 19th, 2007 |
| Location: | Rockville (Near Richmond), Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 675 |
| First Name: | Marshall | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Christian Church,Episcopal Church,Baptist denomination,learning about RCC |
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Posted: Mon Mar 10th, 2008 04:45 pm |
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My friend, as it happens, I am married (for 30 years this coming May) to a life long Baptist woman! Although I have been in other denominations, my wife has no intention whatsoever of changing denominations, she intends to remain a life long Baptist! One option would be, if she is willing, for you to have a "two denomination" marriage, if you two marry. Another option would be for you to primarily attend a Baptist church but visit local Catholic churches at various times. However, I will suggest to you right now that - although she may possibly eventually be willing to change - it probably is NOT likely she will change denominations. More Baptist women convert guys to their denominations than leave the Baptists to go to other denominations. Baptist young women are one of the greatest, most powerful prostletyzing (hope I spelled that correctly, ha, ha) forces in the world! Anyway, while it might be possible that she might eventually consider the Catholic Church, it may not happen and you may have to either consider either becoming a Baptist yourself or being a two denomination family if you marry. The last alternative, sad to say, is that you may have to "cut bait and fish elsewhere". There are some online Catholic dating services which you may wish to check out. However, as for me, I dearly love my wife and plan to be with her for the rest of my life. We will go to a "mainstream" Christian church somewhere - be it Baptist or some other. You need not totally give up on your girlfriend, however, you may have to compromise and I would not expect her to enthusiastically accept conversion to the Roman Catholic Church any time soon, if I were you. If she ever does convert, it will likely take a very long time. Just a friendly, frank estimation of the situation which I have seen happen many other times with many other people. May God bless you and grant you peace. 
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sewnsew
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
| Location: | Arizona USA |
| Posts: | 913 |
| First Name: | Kim | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | cradle Anglican, Episcopal /Catholic-04/07/07 |
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Posted: Mon Mar 10th, 2008 05:00 pm |
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Another point to consider- many people "drift" from their churches saying that they "don't need religion becuase they have a faith" or what ever but when the children come along they return to their churches- Rick has pointed this out recently on another forum thread. One thing to consider- even if you can live in a two denomination family can the non catholic member accept YOU attending the Catholic church once you marry and are a family unit? And the biggie here CAN YOU live with bringing up non Catholic children? In my case i could not live with bringing up my children outside of the liturgical church- our sone was born with heart problems and air evacced to a city 4 hours away with in hours of his birth- it gave me nightmares for months after we brougt him home- he was not baptised in the hospital which was my wish when we found out how sick he was- but since I had had a c section and was groggy and trying to get alert enough for the serious decisions we were making- no one took me seriously enough to baptise that baby and my husban who would have honsestly didn't understand why I was trying to insist on this before the airflight took him. having been raised a SOuthern Baptist baptistim was low down on his priorities and we had only been married a few months over a year before the baby was born ( his parents were counting )
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wmschrader
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| Joined: | Fri Dec 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Fort Myers, Florida USA |
| Posts: | 100 |
| First Name: | Bill | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Methodist, Lutheran, Catholic |
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Posted: Mon Mar 10th, 2008 06:43 pm |
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Would her girlfriend be open to reading about what the RCC teaches so as to know you better? You might get a copy of Karl Keating's book Catholicism and Fundamentalism
Catholicism and Fundamentalism by Karl Keating, a Catholic Apologetic book, defends Catholicism from fundamentalist attacks with clear, detailed, and charitable rebuttals. Karl Keating defends Catholicism from fundamentalist attacks and explains why fundamentalism has been so successful in converting ``Romanists''. After showing the origins of fundamentalism, he examines representative anti-Catholic groups and presents their arguments in their own words. His rebuttals are clear, detailed, and charitable. Special emphasis is given to the scriptural basis for Catholic doctrines and beliefs.
Last edited on Mon Mar 10th, 2008 06:44 pm by wmschrader
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Bill
Glory be to God for all things
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Didi
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| Joined: | Mon Mar 3rd, 2008 |
| Location: | Oregon USA |
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| First Name: | Didi | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Catholic; almost left; Now an On-Fire Catholic! |
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Posted: Mon Mar 10th, 2008 09:20 pm |
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Hi George --
I'm sorry for your dilemma and your pain.
Have you heard of Jason Evert and the Pure Love Club? Here's the website: http://www.pureloveclub.com
They have lots of great books on dating and marriage, and an on-line quiz you can take. Might have something helpful for you.
Fr. John Corapi, who often preaches on EWTN (the Catholic TV station) was talking about meeting with young couples before marriage. He said he often asks them to define love. Most of them define the "feeling" of love, which is well and good, but as we all know, feelings change over time. He said that couples must realize that love is a choice, love is a commitment, and love means doing what's best for the other person and putting them first over and above yourself. Marriage is also a vocation. You are called to help the other person in their faith walk on earth -- to help them get to heaven. Marriage is also a sacrament.
Maybe you could take some pre-marriage classes, or the premarital inventory test (if they still call it that) before you even decide to get engaged. Another option might be going on an Engaged Encounter retreat weekend. The weekend offers a lot of journaling and discussion time for the couple on some very serious subjects, many of which we never consider when we're young and in love (how will you raise and discipline your children?, what if your spouse becomes seriously injured in an accident?). It really sheds a lot of light on how compatible you are and how committed you are to your relationship.
And, please remember, George, that no matter how difficult this is for you and no matter what the outcome is, that Our Heavenly Father loves you more than you could imagine and He wants only what is best for you. That might mean, like any good parent, that sometimes He has to say no, or He might have to take something away from you. But that most likely means He has something better in mind for you!
Keep praying and say often "Jesus, I trust in You."
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Hidden One
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Posted: Mon Mar 10th, 2008 11:32 pm |
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George, your story reminded me of a book I just read - Rome Sweet Home - about a couple, married Presbyterian, who end up converting to the Catholic Church. (It's a true story.) In it, Scott (Hahn) struggles with his faith and his wife (Kimberly Hahn), as he converts long before she does. I think it might be a good book for you to read.
____________________
1 John 4:7-12
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paulr
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Posted: Mon Mar 10th, 2008 11:54 pm |
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George,
I have children your age and older. My youngest son also just turned 22.
If you were my son, I would use your own words to answer your question -
a) "She is not willing whatsoever to work with me in this relationship..."
b) "..... and she doesn't want to continue on with something that can and will not work. Rather, quit while we're ahead."
c) "I am the only one in this relationship trying to make this work out for the best, and have been trying desperately to come up with solutions."
Marriage requires a consistent and ongoing 110% effort from both husband and wife.
If, during an engagement, there is the slightest hint that a potential son or daughter-in-law is not willing to put forth effort toward reconciling something so intrinsically important to my child, I would point out in no uncertain terms the danger that they face should they continue in the relationship.
As painful as it is, I would urge you to accept her advice and "quit while you are ahead." Some roads are not meant to be traveled.
I will keep you in my daily prayers.
paul
____________________
Ad Maiorem Dei Gloriam
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gacibula
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Posted: Tue Mar 11th, 2008 12:13 am |
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Hidden One wrote: George, your story reminded me of a book I just read - Rome Sweet Home - about a couple, married Presbyterian, who end up converting to the Catholic Church. (It's a true story.) In it, Scott (Hahn) struggles with his faith and his wife (Kimberly Hahn), as he converts long before she does. I think it might be a good book for you to read.
Believe it or not, I picked up a copy of that book when I was in Italy this past winter. Just finished it. Enjoyed it thoroughly. I have been trying to get her to read it...
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gacibula
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Posted: Tue Mar 11th, 2008 12:27 am |
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To everyone thus far, thanks so much for posting either real life stories, offering suggestions, and even though it is painful... offering the painful truth that I may end up needing to accept.
To BodRod... I wasn't really "wife-hunting" for non catholics... however, living smack in the middle of the bible belt... the girls you meet are almost always baptist. It is few and far between I can find a catholic girl. I wasn't hunting for a wife or a girlfriend... it started off really as just simple dating as friends, and before we knew it we ended up dating and really falling for eachother. Both of us are smart people, in the same pharmacy program... and it makes things much easier on both of us when we are taking the same classes, able to stay up all night studying for the same thing, and understanding that when work needs to get done... its serious time. I've seen nothing but trouble when some of my other pharmacy friends date a girl/guy who is just an undecided major, goin out and partying, livin the dream per say, and the pharmacy student either doesn't got with them, or does go out, and suffers class related consequences. It was more of a wow... this really can work and we ended up falling in love.
Again, thanks for everyone's support, you all as a community are great!
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JillD
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Visalia, California USA |
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| First Name: | Jill | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | heathen, EvFree, Messianic, LC-MS, Catholic 2007 |
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Posted: Tue Mar 11th, 2008 12:40 am |
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Just one sort of narrow thought to add... When my brother dated his now-wife, they were both very athletic and loved to work out together, similar to your pharmacy commonality. They married, and then they struggled mightily because, once the sports activities were not the center of their lives, it became apparent that they were not of one mind on very important issues. They've stayed together, but not without a great deal of pain and rancor.
Look into the future. Once studying for pharmacy tests is not an issue, how will you relate in other areas?
Have you considered doing some premarital counseling? You can get some tough questions in that and it should unearth areas of difference and similarity. I am now so in love with being Catholic and my family did not come with me. Though we have a fairly long marriage - 22 years - it grieves me that we don't share our faith. I guess we did so long enough that this current situation isn't going to undermine our marriage, but it's not exactly strengthening it, either.
Your relationship with God ought to be a huge part of your life, and if your wife doesn't share that with you, that's tough, but as others have said, fighting over the raising of the kids would be very destructive and painful. It's just TOO important! We're talking eternity here, not just whether or not they play Little League or soccer.
Think long and hard, and don't rush into anything. As someone said, God may just have the perfect Catholic wife waiting to take your name and have your babies baptized.
Blessings!
Jill
Last edited on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 12:42 am by JillD
____________________
"I praise you, for I am wondrously made. Wonderful are our works! My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret." Ps 139
"Guard me, O Lord, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from violent men." Ps 140
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sewnsew
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
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Posted: Tue Mar 11th, 2008 02:14 am |
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Until Jill talked about her brother I hadn't thought about some friends of mine- They worked different shifts at the hospital for their whole marriage ( both Rn's). Their goal was to be able to retire in their early 50's -which they did. Once years ago another nurse and I were talking over lunch and she said "mark my words- they will be divorced soon after they retire because they have never spent much day to day life together- only vacations and that often with other couples" I brushed off the comment thinking that she was Ms. doom n gloom but sure enough 18 mos. after the husband they had both retired they were in trouble- they tried marriage counseling but ended up divorced. One has moved on in life with a new marriage the other has not. One of the saddest things though is that the wife regrets not having had children- it was a mutual decision when they were younger but obviously not quite as mutual as they thought. Both are nice people, and their were no drinking or drug problems in their marriage-but there also was not one thing in common other than work. They didn't even share a political party one voting repub. the other either independent or dem- they used to laugh about canceling each other's vote.
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Hidden One
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Posted: Tue Mar 11th, 2008 02:29 am |
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Believe it or not, I picked up a copy of that book when I was in Italy this past winter. Just finished it. Enjoyed it thoroughly. I have been trying to get her to read it...
Heh. Why am I not surprised? But yeah. It certainly wouldn't hurt if she read it.
____________________
1 John 4:7-12
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BodRod
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 |
| Location: | Apple Valley, California USA |
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| First Name: | Cliff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised an SDA, then Generic Christian, finally at home with ... |
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Posted: Tue Mar 11th, 2008 03:34 am |
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gacibula wrote: It was more of a wow... this really can work and we ended up falling in love.
BINGO!!! That is why you are in the delema you are in. The WOW factor clouds the judgement and we start looking for reasons as to why or how something will work. We know it won't work but we want it to work so we edit our perception. We pay for such mistakes later. In my state I believe it is called, "community property".
____________________
Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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Hidden One
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Posted: Tue Mar 11th, 2008 03:48 am |
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In my state I believe it is called, "community property".
In Protestantism, they call it "Sola Scriptura."
Oops, sorry. Couldn't help it.
Now, back on topic...
The WOW factor clouds the judgement and we start looking for reasons as to why or how something will work.
Of course, one can't forget that soemtimes it will or can work.
Personally, I'm not God, and I'm not George's spiritual director, and I'm not George, either. I can't judge what happened and is happening - I feel I can only offer cautions and advice that doesn't involve reaching a verdict.
Last edited on Tue Mar 11th, 2008 03:49 am by Hidden One
____________________
1 John 4:7-12
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sewnsew
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 9th, 2006 |
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Posted: Tue Mar 11th, 2008 04:04 am |
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Hidden One wrote:
Personally, I'm not God, and I'm not George's spiritual director, and I'm not George, either. I can't judge what happened and is happening - I feel I can only offer cautions and advice that doesn't involve reaching a verdict.
Very tue, Hidden, and if the only concern was the difference in faiths then perhaps we wouldn't all be so cautious however there are a few other red flags: neither the girl or her family/friends seem even open to listen to George's reasons for being Catholic. this quote is another red flag "It does concern me however that I am coming up with many of these solutions on my own... and the only solution she has to offer is a break up."
i think that it could work if George is willing to become Baptist.
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CajunRick
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Posted: Tue Mar 11th, 2008 04:08 am |
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kimdyuma wrote: i think that it could work if George is willing to become Baptist.
I doubt it. Marriages don't work very well when it is all give and no take.
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DrDave
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 6th, 2006 |
| Location: | Mildura, Australia |
| Posts: | 278 |
| First Name: | Dave | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Cradle - Lapsed - Renewed Catholic |
| Status: |
Online
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Posted: Tue Mar 11th, 2008 04:10 am |
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