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beachmoss
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 13th, 2006 |
| Location: | Simpsonville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 289 |
| First Name: | Beth | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Catholic (raised Baptist) |
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Posted: Tue Apr 22nd, 2008 03:37 am |
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Help! My daughter's First Communion was yesterday. Needless to say my parents skipped the Mass, but they did join us afterwards for lunch. When I made a comment about the "bouncers" blocked my view when she received the Precious Blood she started in on "How can you really believe that?" Then on to "That is just stupid. I didn't think you were that stupid. I always thought you were smart." And on and on.
My only counter was "the Bible tells me so." All I could do was repeat "It's in the Bible. Have you read it?" I stopped short of telling her she was stupid because she obviously couldn't read.
This is so aggravating! It doesn't come up often, but when it does it's always round and round. I want off this stupid carousel! Any advice on stopping this?
Beth
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EMarshallBuckles
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 19th, 2007 |
| Location: | Rockville (Near Richmond), Virginia USA |
| Posts: | 623 |
| First Name: | Marshall | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Christian Church,Episcopal Church,Baptist denomination,learning about RCC |
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Posted: Tue Apr 22nd, 2008 04:00 am |
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| I had a similar situation with my parents, primarily my mother, Dad was a little reserved but basically OK with it, when I joined my wife in her Baptist church. About all that you can do is, like CajunRick said when quoting St. Francis - what was it, "preach the Gospel, when necessary use words." When your mother sees that you live your faith, she may at some point feel attracted to it or at least grudgingly admire you for your faith. I have a beloved daughter whom I hope and pray will always be with her mother and me. Even so, if she ever did go out on her own and was in some mainstream Christian denomination, I would be as pleased as I could be. At least you are not off beating a drum and singing Hindu songs or wearing a burka and reading the Koran or some such. All you can do is pray that God will help your parents understand and live an upstanding, faithful Catholic Christian life and raise your children in the faith modeling the Catholic Christian life for your parents.
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BodRod
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 |
| Location: | Apple Valley, California USA |
| Posts: | 815 |
| First Name: | Cliff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised an SDA, then Generic Christian, finally at home with ... |
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Posted: Tue Apr 22nd, 2008 04:26 am |
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beachmoss wrote: ...... she received the Precious Blood she started in on "How can you really believe that?" Then on to "That is just stupid. I didn't think you were that stupid. I always thought you were smart." And on and on.
A preacher and his wife came to my house to buy my harp. He started giving me something like that. His wife jabbed him in the ribs trying to shut him up but he kept going. Eventually, I just said it all came down to whether he believed the Bible or not. If he thought Jesus was lieing then I can see his point. I think if I had hit him in the nose, he would not have looked more shocked. His wife was trying to hide a smirk. He paid for the harp, hustled out of my house and quickly drove away. I think I had the last smirk. 
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Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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Intercessor
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| Joined: | Tue Sep 25th, 2007 |
| Location: | Southcentral, Kentucky USA |
| Posts: | 1239 |
| First Name: | Becky | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Southern Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Apr 22nd, 2008 05:09 am |
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beachmoss wrote:
Help! My daughter's First Communion was yesterday. Needless to say my parents skipped the Mass, but they did join us afterwards for lunch. When I made a comment about the "bouncers" blocked my view when she received the Precious Blood she started in on "How can you really believe that?" Then on to "That is just stupid. I didn't think you were that stupid. I always thought you were smart." And on and on.
My only counter was "the Bible tells me so." All I could do was repeat "It's in the Bible. Have you read it?" I stopped short of telling her she was stupid because she obviously couldn't read.
This is so aggravating! It doesn't come up often, but when it does it's always round and round. I want off this stupid carousel! Any advice on stopping this?
Beth
Beth, a good spiritual director or a good confessor can really be helpful in a situation like this. Barring some unfortunate illness or accident, chances are excellent that this carousel is going to be around for many years yet. Your goal is not to make it vanish but to learn how it works, how to change your attitude toward it, how to learn from it, how to allow beauty to come from the experience.
It can be a win/win situation for you from a certain perspective. If your mom's attitude and behavior never improve, think of these exchanges as penance to help purify your soul. Practice Col. 1:24. Practice patient humility and self-control. Practice returning good for evil. If your mom's attitude and behavior begin to improve, you reap benefits and may even have a chance to shepherd her toward the Church.
Much depends on your willingness to accept from the hand of the Lord the lesson plan He selected for you. Perhaps, you can come to see these painful times as rich opportunities to grow spiritually. If you're like me, alas, that may take many years. I'm hoping you're a faster learner than I was.
It helps to limit the duration and the frequency of visits.
It helps to meet on neutral territory when possible.
It helps to remember the humility of our Lord when suffering abuse.
It helps to offer it up and to pray for grace.
It helps to visit the Blessed Sacrament before a visit.
Know your limits and know her limits.
Taking a road trip together (shut up in a car with her for ten hours) is a bad idea, probably; but perhaps an afternoon of shopping is a reasonable choice.
Your children will be observing, absorbing, and remembering.
God bless, Beth. Wish I could give you a hug. 
BeckyLast edited on Tue Apr 22nd, 2008 05:13 am by Intercessor
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"He who will persevere unto the end is not he who will never fall, but he who after every fall will humble himself and rise again, relying on the infinite strength of God." Divine Intimacy, p. 885 Father Gabriel, O.C.D.
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Ali
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| Joined: | Sat Jan 6th, 2007 |
| Location: | Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 663 |
| First Name: | Ali | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | JW, finally fully Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Apr 22nd, 2008 11:47 am |
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I would stop engaging her, plain and simple.
In my online parenting circle there is a "bean dip"moment. When discussions get out of hand IRT parenting choices IRL people encourage you to pass the bean dip. Meaning that you are changing the subject and showing the person thatwith whom you are arguing that the subject is closed. LOL, I'm not doing it justice, just read the essay http://goybparenting.com/?page_id=28
You won't change your Mom's mind by arguing. No matter how stupid her argument is  I'm sorry this all had to happen on your daughter's special day.
{thanking God for parents who mind their own business no matter who wrong they think I am} And trust me, my Mom thinks I'm plenty wrong.
Ali
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BodRod
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| Joined: | Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 |
| Location: | Apple Valley, California USA |
| Posts: | 815 |
| First Name: | Cliff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised an SDA, then Generic Christian, finally at home with ... |
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Posted: Tue Apr 22nd, 2008 12:43 pm |
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Ali, that is a great idea. I took a look at the web site and it reminded me of something my grandmother used to say, "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still." 
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Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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Credo Catholic
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| Joined: | Sat May 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 1403 |
| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Apr 22nd, 2008 02:52 pm |
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Beth, I'm sorry your mother put a damper on the special day of your daughter's first communion. She needs to have more respect for you and the fact that you are actively raising your children to love and honor and worship God. What bothers me about the incident is the way she said it at the table, and the children heard. That can be very confusing to them. I don't know how you can go about it, but she needs to be told firmly that if she has anything negative to say she should say it privately to you, but she is not to undermine you or your husband in front of the children.
I can see how non-catholics who haven't taken the time to read and learn what we believe, could disagree with the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. But to call her daughter stupid is verbal abuse, very disrespectful and not worthy of a grandmother.
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CajunRick
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5353 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Tue Apr 22nd, 2008 05:25 pm |
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BodRod wrote: Eventually, I just said it all came down to whether he believed the Bible or not. If he thought Jesus was lieing then I can see his point.
I think that's an excellent answer. The best response might well be, "The bible says it, so I believe it." And be prepared to follow up with copies of books like "Where is that in the Bible?", "Scripture Catholic", "Surprised by Truth", and of course the Catechism.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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BodRod
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 |
| Location: | Apple Valley, California USA |
| Posts: | 815 |
| First Name: | Cliff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised an SDA, then Generic Christian, finally at home with ... |
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Posted: Tue Apr 22nd, 2008 09:33 pm |
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| Right! Those are great books. A copy of each is right behind me,..... and YES!!!, I read them!
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Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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Didi
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| Joined: | Mon Mar 3rd, 2008 |
| Location: | Oregon USA |
| Posts: | 182 |
| First Name: | Didi | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Catholic; almost left; Now an On-Fire Catholic! |
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Posted: Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 01:17 am |
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I often find including the personal approach with an intellectual one sometimes helps.
Answering by saying something like "You know, through Scripture study and prayer, and an understanding of the covenants throughout the bible as taught by the early Church fathers continuing through today, I have come to believe and know in my heart without a doubt that Jesus is truly present."
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Andrew_Fisher_of_Men
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| Joined: | Thu Feb 8th, 2007 |
| Location: | Raised In Midwest USA, Vermont USA |
| Posts: | 8 |
| First Name: | Andrew | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic, Lapsed, visited many Protestant churches over a 8 ... |
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Posted: Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 01:55 am |
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I'm not sure what you meant by "bouncers" - others have replied so they obviously know what you mean. I may have a similar experience I can share but dont feel comfortable doing so until I am sure of your meaning.
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"The spirit we have, not the work we do, is what makes us important to the people around us." Sr. Joan Chittister, Erie PA Benedictine
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Credo Catholic
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| Joined: | Sat May 5th, 2007 |
| Location: | Greenville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 1403 |
| First Name: | Marsha | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 03:39 am |
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| I didn't know either what "bouncers" meant. Surely not for tossing out the unruly drunks! Did you mean the people in front of you bouncing up and down to see?
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CajunRick
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Houma, Louisiana USA |
| Posts: | 5353 |
| First Name: | Rick (& Kermie) | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Lifetime Catholic, Latin Rite |
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Posted: Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 11:06 am |
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Credo Catholic wrote: I didn't know either what "bouncers" meant.
I took it to mean people bouncing up and down to take pictures.
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Understanding is the reward of faith. Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand. - Augustine
Rick Luquette
Luquette Lane
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beachmoss
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| Joined: | Mon Nov 13th, 2006 |
| Location: | Simpsonville, South Carolina USA |
| Posts: | 289 |
| First Name: | Beth | | Gender: | Female | | Faith History: | Catholic (raised Baptist) |
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Posted: Wed Apr 23rd, 2008 03:11 pm |
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Thank you all for the great replies. I have not broached the subject with her again yet. It will probably come up again when #3 makes her First Holy Communion in two years. Plenty of time for me to prepare a response.
Sorry if I confused anyone with the term "bouncers." Our DRE, rightfully so, hates for parents to rush up the aisle snapping photos. So she stations the Communion teachers in the aisle to block the rush of parents. Well, one of the teachers is like probably six feet tall and wore heels and she was standing right in front of me. I wish she had asked them to kneel in the aisle so we could see what was going on. Oh, well.
When I went through RCIA 11 years ago I gave her my book when I was done. To my knowledge she has never opened it. There is really little point in trying to converse with her on it. She has totally closed her mind, and any discussion turns into "You're so stupid! How do you believe this?" I've tried numerous times countering with "Because it says so in the Bible. If I'm stupid, then you're calling Jesus a liar." But nothing sinks in. I even pulled out the King James one day and read aloud all the pertinent chapters and verses. And guess what? It even supported what I was trying to tell her.
It's kinda funny. I've been dialoging with some Mormons recently. I can tell when I've said something they are uncomfortable discussing because they always retreat to "I know this in my heart to be true. The Holy Spirit has told me." Theirs is a quiet defence where they must reassure themselves of their beliefs. At least they have listened. Yet I find with my mother she goes on the offensive, attacking viciously. She never states her beliefs outright or says that she holds certain beliefs to be true, she just says that my beliefs are wrong. I find I have a lot more respect for the Mormons and their wacky beliefs just because they are more charitable in their approach.
I guess if she were actually attending a church regularly I could be more understanding--if these messages of intolerence were drummed into her head weekly. But in the past 35 years or more she's only entered a church for weddings, funerals, and (gasp!) the occassional baptism. She's been saying the past 2-3 years that she's going to start attending the UMC. I've been gently pushing her in that direction! (Hey! It's a start!) Maybe if she gets her feet wet she may step on in. She has so many friends there, and they've been asking her to come.
We recently attended a funeral of one of her's and my dad's old friends. The service was beautiful. The pastor was relatively new at the church, but apparently the deceased man was very active in his church. The pastor said a very nice eulogy and talked at length about the man and his family. I left there thinking about my parents' funerals. I know they want a church funeral, but without being active members I don't see how I can approach the pastor of the church they are registered in to preach a funeral for someone he doesn't know.
Forgive me for getting off on a tangent! I gotta run now anyway!
Beth
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Andrew_Fisher_of_Men
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| Joined: | Thu Feb 8th, 2007 |
| Location: | Raised In Midwest USA, Vermont USA |
| Posts: | 8 |
| First Name: | Andrew | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Cradle Catholic, Lapsed, visited many Protestant churches over a 8 ... |
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Posted: Thu Apr 24th, 2008 09:29 pm |
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BOUNCERS - every Catholic Church needs some!????   Keep the sinners away!
OK, now we have a clarification of what bouncers are in church, and their role, and its as I surmised....we have some bouncers here as well. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big guy, 6 feet tall and no wimp, but the bouncers at our church are intimidating to me.......they are older white men that stand guard at the entrance of the church....I guess their job is to keep the riff raff out......if I were a visitor and had to run this gauntlet of guards, I'd do an about face, and bolt out of the church down the block to somewhere more friendly and inviting. No wonder the pews are empty. 
Many Catholic churches have a long way to go in welcoming newcomers and being hospitable. Its just not part of our tradition with a small "t" and maybe even with a capital "T". Protestant churches seem to have the welcoming, hospitality, fellowship aspect down to a science and its a mystery to me why we can't take a chapter or two out of their instruction manual and do away with our BOUNCERS!
I helped form a new hospitality committee in my parish and it was incredible what a difficult job this was. Merely to get my committee members to understand that when a baby was being baptized, there were many out of town visitors in our pews, family members of the parents, God parents, friends and relatives etc., NON CATHOLICS and Catholics alike, and we needed to be more welcoming.
It was a totally foreign concept. The attitude was like:
"they're only going to be here for one day, why should we go out of our way?? "
Many churchs' teachings relative to demonstrating our Christianity and our love walk, can be gauged by the manner in which a specific parish treats the NEWCOMER and, of course, we all know what Jesus's teachings were in this regard.
I recently had to meet my spiritual director, a priest, at a parish that I don't normally go to, about 25 miles away, as he is an itinerant Franciscan. So, I went to the Mass that he was saying and then met with him after Mass. While I was in the pew, I filled out an envelope in the pew and put my cash donation inside the envelope, sealed it, and filled out my name address and phone number on the outside of the envelope as requested and checked off the box that I was a visitor. I have not heard a peep from this parish.
I assure anyone who reads this that if I had done the same in a Protestant church
( and I have) I would have already received a phone call, a letter and possibly even a personal visit. Its not rocket science, but, Catholic churches are missing the boat by not welcoming the newcomer and the visitor and being more friendly to parishioners in keeping with this post above. BOUNCERS have no place in our parishes IMHO.
Last edited on Thu Apr 24th, 2008 09:41 pm by Andrew_Fisher_of_Men
____________________
"The spirit we have, not the work we do, is what makes us important to the people around us." Sr. Joan Chittister, Erie PA Benedictine
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MitchyMitch
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| Joined: | Fri Sep 29th, 2006 |
| Location: | Snellville, Georgia USA |
| Posts: | 93 |
| First Name: | Mitch | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Independent Baptist and Southern Baptist...Now Catholic |
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Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 04:26 am |
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When in doubt, or not in the mood for a fight, I just use Protestant terms that mean the same thing. Communion for Eucharist, etc. I grew up Baptist, so know the frame of reference my Baptist family can appreciate.
Otherwise, you can go around in circles beating a dead horse.Attachment: BeatDeadHorse.gif (Downloaded 26 times) Last edited on Tue Apr 29th, 2008 04:34 am by MitchyMitch
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Pax,
Mitch
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BodRod
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 2nd, 2006 |
| Location: | Apple Valley, California USA |
| Posts: | 815 |
| First Name: | Cliff | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Raised an SDA, then Generic Christian, finally at home with ... |
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Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 11:46 am |
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Is that a picture of Jeremiah Wright? 
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Gratias agamus Domino Deo nostro.
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