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Howard the Pilgrim
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| Joined: | Sun Dec 16th, 2007 |
| Location: | Lamar, Colorado USA |
| Posts: | 79 |
| First Name: | Howard | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | United Presbyterian, non-denom, American Baptist, non-denom, Conservative Baptist, United Methodist ... |
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Posted: Mon May 19th, 2008 04:46 am |
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Hi Everyone,
I have noticed a few posts lately where people are expressing concerns over their health and some of them seem afraid of dying. I must confess that I have been one of those people. My dad was always afraid of dying and he used to get really worried when I got sick. So I sort of picked up on that to the point where I didn't like to read medical books that talked about symptoms because I would start imagining I was beginning to develop those symptoms as I read about them. For the last 15 years or so I would occasionally have anxiety attacks that would mimic some of the symptoms of a heart attack or a stroke. One time I had one as I was leading a church administrative council meeting. They took me to the emergency room at our local hospital and the hospital kept me overnight for observation. The results have always been the same, nada, nothing, zilch. But they are annoying and scary.
However, I have developed a strategy that usually heads my anxiety attacks off before they really get going. I pray to Jesus. I pray the Jesus Prayer and then say, "Jesus, I belong to you and you love me deeply and you are with me at this moment whether I feel your presence or not. So I am okay, whether I live or whether I die." I also ask for the intercession of our Blessed Mother, the Virgin Mary, by praying the Hail Mary. It is kind of a reality check and helps me get my bearings. I have not been troubled by anxiety attacks very much since I started doing this. Then I am also usually calm enough to analyze my symptoms and see which ones I am missing. I am sharing this in hopes that it might help others who wrestle with the same thing.
Now if you are having symptoms and your family has a history of problems in this area or you don't normally have anxiety attacks, by all means get yourself to the medical folks. And take care of your bodies because they are the temple of the Holy Spirit and Jesus works through them to touch the lives of others.
May God bless you and keep you close to His loving heart.
Howard
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Mon May 19th, 2008 05:08 am |
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For the last 15 years or so I would occasionally have anxiety attacks that would mimic some of the symptoms of a heart attack or a stroke.
Anxiety attacks such as you describe are often the result of a panic syndrome, which is a psychosomatic reaction and not a genuine physical disease. Prayer can help, to be sure, but there is also medication available specifically for this kind of ailment.
On the other hand, I suffer occasionally from muscle spasms in the esophagus. These too feel kind of like a heart problem, although they are mostly harmless. Yes, I had to find out what was going on before I was satisfied that I would live through them. You can bet I have prayed a bit, too.
David
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Steven Barrett
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| Joined: | Tue Nov 14th, 2006 |
| Location: | Hadley, Massachusetts USA |
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| First Name: | Steven | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | Catholic, Episcopal communicant, Baptist, Catholic |
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Posted: Mon May 19th, 2008 05:54 am |
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 I've at least three "panic attacks" with one of them landing me overnight in the local hospital. Being overweight didn't help my situation at that time, but what really sealed the deal was calling 911 before the doctor's office and that automatically meant the ambulance was called out, etc. My problem then was shoveling to get my car out and worrying about being too late for my job, which then was driving a paratransit van, of all things. Another problem was being a little too clever for my own good thanks to knowledge I learned from my CPR cert. training. Yep, I had all the symptoms of the BIG ONE, except one: my heart was in good shape. My nerves, well ... another story.
Medicine has a big role in "panic attacks," especially if you're taking any psychopharmacological meds for depression, ADHD, panic attacks, obsessive compulsive disorder. THose along with any high blood pressure problems resulting from emotional stresses, etc., will surely land you in a tight spot. Last year I two readings of very high blood pressure (200 high readings in early a.m., and later around 11-noonish, plus voicing a lot of anger at my doc for the meds I was taking then.
Don't mess around with this stuff. I was lucky to be covered by my wife's health insurance, and to be retired on SSDI when my last attacks hit. I didn't have to worry about losing a job. And nowadays, I could never stress enough the necessity to do whatever it takes to make sure your employer(s) and the health insurance companies they offer NEVER catch on that you've had any thing close to a panic attack. There is the Americans with Disability Act on your behalf, but the insurance companies are arrogant enough not to care what it might cost them in legal fees so long as they can intimidate you enough at first with their expensive legal teams and deeper pockets to wear you down should you decide to fight them.
Sadly, in this day of the return to a 19th century mentality when it comes to the treatment of employees, esp. through privatization and outsourcing, the only way individuals can protect themselves from future unnecessary fiscal-stress-related panic attacks, and they are real(!) is through working towards making sure our politicians enact a socialized national health care program that covers everything, except, of course, abortions, embryonic stem-cell research, Plan B birth control, etc. (If people want that, well, that's a "private choice," right?)
Perhaps working for affordable health care that enhances the dignity of every person and honors God might seem naive and a far-fetched thing for somebody having to deal with the immediate need to reduce these panic attacks. But take it from somebody who's been fighting them for most of his life, having a cause to fight for and the sustained drive to keep that fight up will do a lot more than we might think at first. Many panic attacks come from the fears people have upon hitting dry spots in their lives that what they're facing is "all there is." Having something to shoot for that's bigger than we are might just help reduce these attacks. (The same can also be said for parents who want to see their kids grow, etc. Panic attacks can often reflect false fears of lost tomorrows.) Lord,  have I ever known this gnawing and awful sensation.
All the fights against stigmas, and the misuse of our laws, well, they're all wonderful--but nothing beats commonsense preventative health care, and a wariness with regards to protecting one's privacy concerning mental health issues--and above all, a prayerful trust in God.
____________________
James Michael Curley to a young Thomas “Tip” O’Neill -- “Son, it’s nice to be important, but it’s more important to be nice.”
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Annie
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Posted: Mon May 19th, 2008 03:16 pm |
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Hi, Howard,
The prayer method worked for me too, as well as realizing that everywhere you go there are people who are willing to help in an emergency.
And no, socialized medicine will cause a serious deterioration in our medical care system as it has everywhere it has been tried. I don't envision a socialized medical system treating anything that is psychosomatic with the degree that our system does now.
____________________
Annie
Ora et labora
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Steven Barrett
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Posted: Mon May 19th, 2008 04:23 pm |
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Annie, I couldn't agree with you more about the impact of prayer.
I just wish I could agree with you more about the psychosomatic part. It's just (at least in my own experience up here in western Mass.) that once you call the doctors to complain about any numbness in your left arm, or of having the classic checklist symptoms of "THE BIG ONE" -- everything goes on automatic pilot and you've got to follow those orders, and believe me, there were times when I felt like a real big dolt afterwards. I know where you're coming from on that to a point. I'd hate to think of what an insurance company might do if you didn't follow orders to go immediatedly to the hospital/emerg. room and then you really did have the BIG ONE, or a stroke and the damage that became much worse could've been preventable and the carrier decided to leave you holding the bag.
That might seem far-fetched -- and please reassure me it is -- please! Who knows how many panic attacks have been brought on by fears of the proverbial poorhouse (the old equal to our homeless shelters of today?)
My brother reported feeling ill one day last Dec. while working a treadmill and he had no worries at all about possible heart problems. But the doc wisely wasted no time in getting his patient over to the USC-Med Center in Charleston where he was immediately admitted for a badly needed triple bypass.
He was fortunate. He had health insurance provided by the government. He's a professor at the Citadel and a retired Army general in the reserves. Yet, inasmuch as I love my brother, why wouldn't I also want to see all of us have the right to seek health care and receive the same level of care. God doesn't love us or want to protect us any less because we're not as fortunate as my brother or even myself, for that matter. But there are many, many people who are terrified of even visiting the emer. rooms just to be sure that they aren't enduring panic attacks, but also to be on the safe side that what they're experiencing is the real thing and they have the confidence of knowing they'll be treated with equal dignity and full care as a professor/retired general or his retired brother on SSDI.
While we can both agree that there's no room for abusing emer. room services for minor cuts, scrapes, bad hangovers, etc., but when a patient reports classic symptoms of a heart attack or seizure/stroke, he or she shouldn't have to be burdened with worrying about the costs of something that's been ordered and they have to come in.
That's where I'm coming from. I can't say I've always been for socialized medicine, especially when I was younger and on the go in my twenties and thirties. (Parenthood and getting older has a way of rubbing down some sharper corners--don't they?!) But I've seen and experienced first hand the benefits of government run health service, being a service dependent. And I know my parents could not have afforded the care I needed as a kid when I contacted TB and later hypothyroidism without going into debt had my father been a civilian and we were left to the tender mercies of the open market.
Having said my two-cents worth here doesn't mean I'm not "open for suggestions"! But, oops, I'd better remove the bandaid covering the slot in my suggestion box! 
PS: Oh, and my brother-- he's doing just fine!
Last edited on Mon May 19th, 2008 04:41 pm by Steven Barrett
____________________
James Michael Curley to a young Thomas “Tip” O’Neill -- “Son, it’s nice to be important, but it’s more important to be nice.”
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Annie
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Posted: Mon May 19th, 2008 05:17 pm |
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Steven, there are many conditions which can be or not psychosomatic. You have to figure out whether it is or not. I had something once that was misdisgnosed in that way for ten years and I had pain so bad i almost died of shock a couple of times. Somebody finally figured it out, whew.
Some people have panic attacks for physical reasons and with most it is behavioral and eventually is reinforced into an avoidance phobia known as agorophobia. My attacks were behavioral as most are (if they appear during late adolescence or early adulthood this is a key). It is never a good thing to start taking a drug to solve a problem is a non-drug solution will do. And this is from somebody who has been taking a powerful hormone drug for over 20 years because a surgical solution for something wasn't seen as viable. (ick)
And nobody please say that all conditions are necessarily this or that because of the person's age. I did not say this, i said I can be a key, not a diagnosis.
I was once without insurance and discovered that hospitals are required to give treatment regardless of the ability to pay. Unfortunately some states have instituted loopholes and these must be closed. I have had big bills reduced too. There is a scale for those who pay out of pocket. It's like the hardware stores in Amish country, those cute oil lanterns have two prices, one for Amish and one for English.
Last edited on Mon May 19th, 2008 05:21 pm by Annie
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Annie
Ora et labora
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Mon May 19th, 2008 07:05 pm |
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Annie wrote:Some people have panic attacks for physical reasons and with most it is behavioral and eventually is reinforced into an avoidance phobia…. It is never a good thing to start taking a drug to solve a problem is a non-drug solution will do.
Right. This is what I attempted to say above. “Often the result of a panic syndrome” is not the same as “always.” And this is why there are medications and “other” treatments.
Furthermore, sometimes the ailment is not what we think. Witness my esophagal spasms. They are scary but harmless. Unfortunately, they can also lead one to forget that there remains the possibility of a real heart attack, which can then go undiagnosed — with fatal results.
David
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Annie
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Posted: Mon May 19th, 2008 07:09 pm |
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| My mom gets those spasms too. they are very scary. My illnesses are of the merely annoying and non-scary variety, thanks be to God.
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Annie
Ora et labora
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Howard the Pilgrim
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| Location: | Lamar, Colorado USA |
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| First Name: | Howard | | Gender: | Male | | Faith History: | United Presbyterian, non-denom, American Baptist, non-denom, Conservative Baptist, United Methodist ... |
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Posted: Mon May 19th, 2008 08:40 pm |
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I did not know I was triggering a big debate when I was just sharing how Jesus helped me overcome my panic attacks and fear of death.
I am familiar with medical situations and emergencies since my wife had a stroke in her early 40's and one of my sons is a liver transplant recipient. I have spent much time in hospitals and with some of the finest physicians and nurses.
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Annie
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Posted: Mon May 19th, 2008 09:20 pm |
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It's not a debate, we are sharing our experiences. We always end up agreeing about most things anyway. The important things anyway.
You shoulda seen the posts when we had this one troll who used to log on. Man, that was BAD.
Definition
Troll = from "trolling" as in fishing. A troll is a person who logs on not as themself and deliberately baits people to start arguments.
Last edited on Mon May 19th, 2008 09:23 pm by Annie
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Annie
Ora et labora
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Tue May 20th, 2008 12:30 am |
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Howard the Pilgrim wrote:I did not know I was triggering a big debate when I was just sharing how Jesus helped me overcome my panic attacks and fear of death.
As Annie says, there’s no debate, just shared experiences. Panic attacks are fairly common. Some of them, as we have said, have a physical basis, whereas others (probably the majority) are psychological in nature.
We are rejoicing with you that you have found prayer to be useful in curbing your attacks and fear. It is true that building up one’s trust in God through prayer brings great peace. This is what has brought me through several life crises over the past 15 to 20 years and why I have given my time and effort over to God’s work. I have faced loss and illness and suffering and have survived. As I move now into old age, fear is becoming an ever smaller part of my life. This is what takes its place: “My Jesus, I trust in you.”
David
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CajunRick
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Posted: Tue May 20th, 2008 02:24 am |
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Annie wrote: socialized medicine will cause a serious deterioration in our medical care system as it has everywhere it has been tried.
While I don't know that I could make such a general statement, I do know this:
When I had my heart attacks and bypass surgery in 1987, I was a heavy smoker. In England at the time, smokers were not eligible for bypass surgery until they had quit for a year. I would not have survived a year. Had I lived in England under their health care system, I would be dead.
On the other hand, I have depended on a government sponsored health care system for the last 15 years. The state of Louisiana has an excellent charity hospital system operated by Louisiana State University's Medical School. However, it coexists with the current health care system and (in my opinion) could be a model for a national health care system that would provide for indigents and the uninsurable.
Socialized medicine? No. But there has to be a better way than what we have now.
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Howard the Pilgrim
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Posted: Tue May 20th, 2008 05:09 am |
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Thanks, David. I love the Chaplet of Divine Mercy and the picture with "Jesus, I trust in you" at the bottom.
As far as our health care system goes, the churches and municipalities used to operate a lot of the hospitals when I was a kid. No real profit motive there. Now it seems like most of them are for profit as are the insurance companies. Got to keep those stockholders and venture capitalists happy with healthy profit margins. A friend of mine was a physician who worked for a major HMO or two. He came away pretty disillusioned from the deal. One CEO made a salary that was equal to the annual premiums for 38,000 policyholders.
My son was recently in a Catholic hospital where they had a crucifix on the wall. A reminder of the suffering and presence of Jesus.
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Steven Barrett
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Posted: Sat May 24th, 2008 07:10 pm |
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Annie, sorry for being so tardy in getting back to you on this, and missing this "column" of threads within the Fellowship Area. I see "Fellowship Hall" and I think I'm back at my volunteer "work" at my family's baptist church--even on a day off. Ohhhhhhhh nooooooooooooooo  ! The gathering hall is called, you guessed it, "Fellowship Hall." (SOmetime the fellowship extends only so long as I don't slip in a few reminders of what they're missing out on  .... I'm sure lots of us have gone through that. Let's say I'm playfully "devious" enough to plot a "denominational panic attack" during an adult sunday class, especially if reformation history comes up or something like it.  Natch, I don't give them the old extended tongue, just their treasured misconceptions!
On a more serious note, you brought up some very good points and they brought back some memories of some awful physical "side effect" moments that I thought back then were just related to a wrenching breakup of a friendship. Leg cramps, shoulder stiffness, etc. And recently, I've been jittery for a variety of reasons and am feeling some "creaky bones" in my lower neck where my right shoulder's supposed to be linked to.
But it would be ridiculous to seek an ER doc's attention for such a personal nuisance when there are so many other avenues to take; this route among friends, or the various "ask a doc.com" services on the web. For some people, just seeing a nurse roll in that EKG contraption might be enough to send the ratings out of proportion for sure!
And yes, I'm aware that hospitals, esp. in Mass . aren't allowed to "dump" patients. In some states, however, the places and systems can be pretty clever ... that is until an intrepid reporter (hopefully with a good camera crew) catches the dumpers in the act. I've heard some very pro-capitalists defend such practices, but it's a bad and stupid business all around to do it. And it violates the very principle and spirit of the Hippocratic Oath.
I like that double set of rules concerning the Amish. No matter what breaks they get, they're Reliable! That ougth to keep some medical accountants from having panic attacks of their own!
Have a great weekend!
Steven 
____________________
James Michael Curley to a young Thomas “Tip” O’Neill -- “Son, it’s nice to be important, but it’s more important to be nice.”
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Sun May 25th, 2008 03:31 am |
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Steven Barrett wrote:I see "Fellowship Hall" and I think I'm back at my volunteer "work" at my family's Baptist church…. The gathering hall is called, you guessed it, "Fellowship Hall."
That’s why I gave it that name, Steven. I wanted visiting Protestants to feel right at home.
David
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Steven Barrett
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Posted: Sun May 25th, 2008 07:09 am |
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Sorry Dave, I meant no harm!
s.
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James Michael Curley to a young Thomas “Tip” O’Neill -- “Son, it’s nice to be important, but it’s more important to be nice.”
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Pani Rose
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Posted: Sun May 25th, 2008 12:59 pm |
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David W. Emery wrote:
Furthermore, sometimes the ailment is not what we think. Witness my esophagal spasms. They are scary but harmless. Unfortunately, they can also lead one to forget that there remains the possibility of a real heart attack, which can then go undiagnosed — with fatal results.
David
They are no fun! Very true. I had them when I first developed Dystonic Spasms and when you don't know what is going on, you do panic. Now, when my head or another part of my body starts to spasm - if I am someplace where people don't know me - I am always concerned about keeping them from PANIC 
We have just learned to add humor to it. If my nose and mouth start spasming the kids say it is my bugs bunny impression. If my feet turn out the kids call it my penquin walk. So many different spasms, and we have just learned to laugh. What can you do, but trust that the Lord is going to get you to where you need to be. After all, we are in his hands, and he has not let us down yet.
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David W. Emery
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Posted: Sun May 25th, 2008 01:07 pm |
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No harm done, Steven. I see that you have made your home here, too.
David
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Steven Barrett
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Posted: Thu May 29th, 2008 01:05 am |
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| That could be expensive for the Forum if it provides donut holes and coffee, two of my biggest weaknesses--besides a fondness for giving Baptists panic attacks in their Fellowship Hall.
____________________
James Michael Curley to a young Thomas “Tip” O’Neill -- “Son, it’s nice to be important, but it’s more important to be nice.”
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BeProf
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Posted: Thu May 29th, 2008 02:21 pm |
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I used to have anxiety attacks so bad I couldn't leave my apartment. Truth be told, that's the primary reason I never earned my degree - I spent an entire semester in bed and wound up in a very nice catholic hospital.
I got things under control with medication and therapy and things worked out ok. I got a job. I got married. My doctors at the hospital said I was as clear a cut case of plain old "chemical imbalance" that they had ever seen and told me to resign myself to being on medication for the rest of my life. Some people are diabetic. I have clinical depression. No big deal.
Then one Sunday afternoon after church, I woke up from a nap and said to myself, "Huh... that's funny. I just got healed." I then did what people who experience miraculous healing tend to do in situations like that - I went back to sleep. I mean... it's not like I asked for a healing or expected one. I certainly didn't name or claim anything or sow any "seed offerings" or any of the stuff that the hucksters with "healing ministries" generally recommend.
I kept taking my pills and generally tried to forget all about it. Until I became hypomanic, agitated, and just an all around basket case. Classic symptoms of over medication. So I started ramping down my dose. I didn't talk to my doctor, but over the years I had become as much of an expert on this particular condition and how to manage it with medication as he was (he told me so) and he trusted me to pretty much manage my own dosage as needed. I still showed symptoms so I kept ramping down until I didn't show them any more... and I wasn't taking any pills at all.
That was five years ago now and I've never looked back. I have, in all honesty, had a couple of anxiety attacks since then, but they were well within the range of what psychology would consider normal situations for anxiety attacks. You can say that I just snapped out of it if you like or call it "spontaneous remission" if you must, but I know what happened to me and it was a miracle, plain and simple.
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Annie
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Posted: Thu May 29th, 2008 02:54 pm |
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I had a similar thing happen to me. Miracle healing, rolled over and went back to sleep.
God bless you all with your trials. 
____________________
Annie
Ora et labora
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Steven Barrett
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Posted: Thu May 29th, 2008 03:22 pm |
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Ed,
What a great story, a wonderful testimony to the power of faith; but also to how faith and common sense working together in tight cohesion can help to bring about miracles over time.
I heard you loud and clear about the "chemical dependency" part of it all. Dammed if we take 'em, dammed if we don't. One of the hardest things we have to deal with is that mangy old dog called Stigma. Sure, people will tell us in all sincerity to stand up and not take it any more and move out on faith, etc. And we'd be even more squirrelly not to agree because we simply can't live in fear. That's not living. And nobody knows this better than we do.
Unfortunately, nobody also knows better than we do that all the motivational hype, well meaning as it's generally intended to be, and what happens once the excitement wears off, the harsher realities of the day settle in, and the highs we had while excited about some prospect or another start to drop with the dusk. (No wonder "happy hours" were so popular, and I don't think they were all "mean boss" or witchy "ex-es" related!) Yes, I also remember those "hypomanic highs" when the level of excitement drove me into other levels of thought that simply alarmed others, all the while I had no clue as to how whacked I appeared to people around me.
A close friend of mine in my freshman year was so alarmed that she practically begged me to seek help and this was back in Jan. 71. I did, and even though we haven't seen each other since the following September, I'll always be grateful for her alarcrity. If I hadn't started seeing somebody shortly after her alarm, I honestly don't know if I'd be sitting her typing this. I really can't say. But as my memory comes back in clearer fashion, I now recall how jittery, exciteable, opinionated (moreso than nowadays -- oh boy!), and clingy I was. Being away from home for the first time, attending a college in Miami far from my home in much more rural western Massachusetts, and a (very sincere) affection for my former friend no doubt contributed to a large part to my inbalance at the time. Well, I was there to attend college first and foremost!
The key for us is to be honest with ourselves and what our limitations, illnesses and weaknesses have done to us--in the past--without giving into the temptation to go back and nurse those old bad spells like they were old aches and pains we delude ourselves into thinking that need constant rubbing and attention instead of allowing them to heal naturally. After all, I've yet to see a healing scab form naturally if we keep the scrape or cut constantly enclosed from healing air. But like Jimmy Buffett sings in "Changes in Lattitudes, changes in Attitudes," ... "...yesterday's over my shoulder, I can't look back for too long ... good times and riches, and son of a... I've seen more than I can recall." The key isn't in how many things, experiences and people we recall, it's how we recall them and for how long. We have lives ahead of us to live.
And, we have stories to share for others to gain encouragement from. When you look at the Bible and our Catechism, there are plenty of stories, examples and pointers on how to live life to its fullest. But neither of them defy "medical gravity" in the sense that they, like some misguided preachers in some very "off Broadway" type of DIY churches, would ever urge people to rely on just one or two sentences (that are usually ripped out of the Bible -- and context -- both literally and figuratively speaking.
I hate taking the meds, but I don't have the false luxury of deluding myself with the simplistic rationale of deciding whether it'd be the poorhouse or nuthouse. That's not even a choice. And if it was, it surely wasn't a wise one even to give more than a passing thought as a funny wisecrack. Each person's recovery, weening, or properly administered use of medicines is different. One thing remains consistent for persons like us who will always be at risk for getting these panic attacks, etc., and that's constant vigilance and discipline. Oh, don't we both know, there's no "easy" way out and away from it.
My biggest frustrations didn't come from accepting what I have and working with it. That was a piece of cake. The worst part came from trying to think what others might be thinking about and for me. That, plus thinking that playing into the old "tired of being sick and tired of ...such and such... I could just control it away by myself by sheer self-discipline! That's a gold-plated version of what my fellow "Cast Members" at Walt Disney World" would call the old E-Ticket for the best rides. On the "Mad Hatter's Ball" ride no less!
May God Bless you on your journey closer to Rome and understanding our faith, and of course the same journey we both share as fellow " veteran panikers."
____________________
James Michael Curley to a young Thomas “Tip” O’Neill -- “Son, it’s nice to be important, but it’s more important to be nice.”
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